Recently it seems that whenever anyone has a problem with something going on in our sport they drag out the phrase:

"Dragon boat racing will never be taken seriously so long as <insert personal agenda here>"

Whether your beef is funding for national teams, BCS teams hogging the spotlight, rule changes during regattas, conflicts of interest, etc, it seems like a lot of people think their particular beef is the cause of all evil, the very reason the dragon boat racing is not currently practices on every lake, river, resevoir and bath tub in the civilized and uncivilized world.

So, complete this sentence with your own personal beef.


"Dragon boat racing will never be taken seriously so long as/until..."

dragon boat will never be taken seriously until this forum a.)becomes non-anonymous, b.)explodes... literally.

Dragon Boat isn't taken seriously… I hear it all the time... Can someone please explain this to me?

How is Dragon Boat NOT taken seriously?

I’m genuinely curious because I don't see this to be true.

"Dragon boat racing will never be taken seriously until..."


...people start doing what I frickin' well TELL them to!

"Dragon boat racing will never be taken seriously until..."

...the forum troll dies
...New College wins CCWC
...the Mofos put their shirts back on
...the Mofo women take their shirts off too
...club crews are ACTUALLY club crews
...the island charges less
...G&G no longer exists
...Mayfair goes back to developing paddlers
...sprint canoers stop looking down their noses at dragonboat
...someone other than Philly wins the U.S. Premiere spots
...the chain smoking Shun De crew stops winning

"How is Dragon Boat NOT taken seriously?"

The perception that people outside the sport view it as recreational pastime that has a bunch of fun, often charity based festivals and not as a serious sport like (insert almost any other sport).

I think to get to the point where it can be taken seriously several things have to happen:
1) Stop calling the events festivals. I realize that alot of festivals do a lot of good for alot of charities, but under this scheme the fact that there are teams in the sport for the competitive nature gets lost. At the very least there needs to be a greater distinction between a fund raising rec festival and a highly competitive... regatta?

2) The sport needs to be better organized. Right now there are a bunch of teams that are formed from various means (corporate, school, friends) that decide what festivals to attend. These festivals are run by for profit companies (often on behalf of a community organization). But there is not overarching structure. There should be some sort of structure (say regional regattas to qualify for provincial regattas, to qualify for nationals). Teams that want to be competitive would need to work their way through the system over a season (this would not prevent teams from competing at festivals)

3) A true national program. A national governing body would need to hire a staff (coaching/admin) that would build national crews from individuals selected to tryout based on performance a regattas etc.

4) A worthy goal. One thing that is common among the "serious" amatuer sports is that they are filled with people willing to put their lives on hold for years while they chase the dream. Dragonboating doesn't have that goal.

For this sport to be taken seriously, we need to develop the proper incentive to ask the youth of today to dedicate the next 10-15 years of their lives to the sport (just like their friends at the pool, velodrome, slopes and yes flatwater canoe course).

Dragon boat will never be taken seriously.

Unitl *** ****s like you stop trashing teams that are better. G&G dosn't exist! Go F*#K yourself!

Dragon Boating should never be taken seriously because it's an outlet for all the stressful things of life. Some of us have had our days of heavy competition in other sports and just kind of enjoy going up and down the waterways and competing in various festivals. And, having the odd beer.

Frankly who cares what others think.

Orst has a point. Dragonboat is made up of three types of people (in general).
1) Athletes who have had their day in sun in other competitive sports (primarily sprint canoe)and are looking for what amounts to a competitive pastime.
2)People who are looking for a social activity that has some exercise and lots of fun.
3) Those who are athletic but never really had the skill sets to succeed at any of the more established sports and are looking for a sport that requires athletic ability but not alot of skill, that they could participate in and could potentially give them stories to tell their grandkids about how they competed at the Worlds. These people are looking for crews that have group 1 people on it to take them there.

anon 3:38...
funny but true

Scott T: Exactly! Well said.

We'll probably have to wait a few years but I feel like there’s some hope after watching 'The Game of Their Lives', about the US soccer team that played in the 1950 FIFA World Cup. It was only the 4th World Cup of soccer and there are lots of similarities between the growing pains of soccer in the US back then and those in dragon boat in Canada now. And before you jump on me - no, I’m not comparing dragon boat to the worlds greatest game.
In order to select the squad which would represent the US at worlds, a game was played between a team from New York (representing the east) and a team from St. Louis (representing the west). The game ended in a 3-3 tie. Following the game the squad was picked from these two teams. Between then and when the team left, some players dropped out and others were added. The entire team only ever played together a handful times before heading to Brazil as the US national team. To anyone who knows how the national db team is picked this should sound familiar.
The only reason their historic win was even reported back in the United States was because St. Louis reporter (and soccer fan), Dent McSkimming, was on vacation in Brazil at the time. He sent home a report that was published in the St. Louis Post Dispatch. For years, the accomplishment of the US team were ignored in the United States but starting in the 1970's numerous articles appeared in US soccer publications. No one outside of this community ever hears about the accomplishments of Canada's national db team. Why would they when even the website of our national organization, DBC, doesn't say anything. Anyway, if you love a good 'underdogs rise above' sports story, the movie’s available at blockbuster.

"Following the game the squad was picked from these two teams. Between then and when the team left, some players dropped out and others were added. The entire team only ever played together a handful times before heading to Brazil as the US national team. To anyone who knows how the national db team is picked this should sound familiar"

It would be an improvement if this was close to how the so-called National team was picked.

Okay, I'll bite. How do you think the national team is picked?

Clubs decide they want to represent Canada and make an application to be Program Director. If there is more than one applicant they have a race off and the winning club represents. It is the program director (ie club coach) who decides his roster, which will typically be their own team with perhaps a few recruits.

If you want a truly national team, DBC should stike a selection committee, hire a national coach and staff (not afilliated with any club) and develop a scouting/selection process to take the best paddlers in the country and not just the best paddlers known to the winning club coach.

"not just the best paddlers known to the winning club coach"

this should read as friends of the club coach.

"Clubs decide they want to represent Canada and make an application to be Program Director."

I don't recall there was ever a requirement that the national team be a "club".

In fact, most of the prior premiere national teams over the last 3 world championships were not club based at all. They were built from tryouts, and through the old-boys club of MCC & friends (not slight intended).

So don't make up stories to support your argument. We do NOT send the best "Club" to be the national team. If so, we would send our National Club Crew Champion, would we not?

replace dragon boat with this forum and you've got it right. This forum is a joke, that is not taken seriously, but it's unfortunately the only thing we have.

Back in the days, you'd see at least a few good threads, but these days it's all about bashing this team or that team. Some tend to think that this forum represents all of dragon boating but fortunately for dragon boating in Canada this is not so. Otherwise, there would be fewer trying and enjoying the sport because of all the bs that goes on here.

Well at least in this thread....

Courtesy of a poster above:

"If you want a truly national team, DBC should stike a selection committee, hire a national coach and staff (not afilliated with any club) and develop a scouting/selection process to take the best paddlers in the country and not just the best paddlers known to the winning club coach."

Just how do you make an intelligent selection while "scouting" across the country to find the "best" paddlers? The boat has 20 people in it FFS! It is almost impossible to compare one dragon boat paddler against another in another part of the country in any meaningful way. Furthermore, with regional differences in technique and the fact that we live in a gigantic country where east coast, central and west coast paddlers live and train so far apart and can rarely train together it actually makes no sense at all to try. The system has been working well just the way it is since 1999 at least. Furthermore, for those that may not realize it, the "club coaches" from this area have always recruited from other areas of the country after their crew has won the entry. The Montreal women joined the Toronto women in Berlin and are doing so again for Australia. Furthermore there are women from Nova Scotia involved. Ditto the men who in the past have recruited (albeit from the flatwater community) from Ontario, Nova Scotia, Quebec, Saskatchewan and British Columbia. Sounds pretty National to me. They were able to do that because they took flatwater paddlers whose ability you can easily assess in C1 or K1 in initial recuitment and then all they needed to do was see if they could adapt to dragon boat. Guess what? They could because they are all talented paddlers. So I guess you actually can recruit across the country but you'd be taking "flatties" which many of you, I am sure, would have some problems with.

Ah, the flattie issue again. Haven't heard that in a while.

Taken seriously by whom?

Who do you want to take it seriously?

Do you take it seriously? If so, who else matters?

"Just how do you make an intelligent selection while "scouting" across the country to find the "best" paddlers? The boat has 20 people in it FFS! It is almost impossible to compare one dragon boat paddler against another in another part of the country in any meaningful way. Furthermore, with regional differences in technique and the fact that we live in a gigantic country where east coast, central and west coast paddlers live and train so far apart and can rarely train together it actually makes no sense at all to try."

It's a wonder that Canada can field a national team in any sport. I case you haven't heard they have come up with a way to make travel from coast to coast fairly quick. No one is suggesting the scouting staff would have to paddle the whole way.

If you had bothered to read the rest of this forum you would realize that this particular post was building on the theme of a national program that had athletes dedicating themselves to the sport full-time.
Check out the National Rugby team for instance. These guys have quit their jobs and in many cases left their families to move to Victoria so they could practice as a team full-time (with next to no funding by the way)in order to represent their country at the World Cup. They have a handful of pros playing in Europe on their roster that they bring for the games, but the rest are amateur status.

"Furthermore, with regional differences in technique and the fact that we live in a gigantic country where east coast, central and west coast paddlers live and train so far apart and can rarely train together it actually makes no sense at all to try. "

If ever there was a sport that could have a team put together just before race time and have them do well it is dragonboat. A good paddler can adjust to the boat in very little time because after all the differences in technique are not that significant.

"Just how do you make an intelligent selection while "scouting" across the country to find the "best" paddlers? The boat has 20 people in it FFS! It is almost impossible to compare one dragon boat paddler against another in another part of the country in any meaningful way."

My goodness how do these coaches ever come up with a roster if it is impossible to compare one paddler to another? See the previous posters comment regarding movement around the country.

"If ever there was a sport that could have a team put together just before race time and have them do well it is dragonboat. A good paddler can adjust to the boat in very little time because after all the differences in technique are not that significant. "

Tell that to Mayfair.

Every sport has growing pains. I feel lucky to be involved relatively early in Canada's dragon boat history - to be referred to as one of the old boys.
It was encouraging to watch the junior crews compete this past weekend. They've got good technique and even better attitudes. If they continue on with it, maybe the time will come (while they're in university) when they can afford the time and money to travel to training camps. Right now, most of the national team members seem to be 25+ with jobs and family commitments.
This forum is the worst offender when it comes to keeping this sport a joke. A few years ago, our crew actually lost a sponsor because they googled dragon boat. They couldn't find anything about our national team (except some old rosters from gtdbc) and when they came across this forum, they decided the people in the sport were *******s and withdrew their offer of sponsorship. It's a friggin' curse.

This thread was never started as place to debate the formation of the national team. It just did what forum threads usually do, lock onto a tangent with Pit Bull like tenacity and not let go.

Cynic has it right, IMO.

To which I will add: Toss out all the crap about Olympics, national recognition, etc, and just enjoy your sport.

New people join up all the time and love it. Crybabies and malcontents drop out. The sport gets more and more competitive all the time. It may have periodic ups and downs, but it seems to me the trend is mostly upwards.

My largest complaint at this point is that the "fun" side of the sport does seem to suffer a bit in favour of the more competitive side, and all the petty politics that go with it.

I'm really looking forward to more Beers & Barbeque oriented events over the next few years. Time to start enjoying it a bit more.

Stratford Silvermasters.

I remember the thread.

"In fact, most of the prior premiere national teams over the last 3 world championships were not club based at all. They were built from tryouts, and through the old-boys club of MCC & friends (not slight intended).

So don't make up stories to support your argument. We do NOT send the best "Club" to be the national team. If so, we would send our National Club Crew Champion, would we not?"

Go to
http://www.dragonboatcanada.org/documents/NTT_results_06.pdf

Explain why there seem to be all these "Clubs" competing at the National Team Trials?

Why all the clubs? Because DBC started to implement system that encouraged teams to call themselves clubs. The tail wags the dog.

Note that what you post there is the 2006 National Team Trials, hardly representative of the way any prior National Team was selected. And did you check out the name of the winning Premiere Open and Mixed entries? If you have to be a club, how did THAT slip by the DBC officials?

And remember when the Crewsers used to race the Montreal Women?

Also, did the old MCC based group even have a name? Maybe at times it was GTDBC, but there was a lot of fluff back then about boat rental facilities versus clubs, so that doesn't really count.

I think the old terminology used to be "syndicates". And "syndicates", or whoever is vying for the National Team sanction, don't have the same restrictions as clubs.

So I'm right, and you're wrong. Nyah nyah!

"So I'm right, and you're wrong. Nyah nyah!"

And to think you almost made through an entire post sounding like a mature individual interested in having a rational discussion

"If you have to be a club, how did THAT slip by the DBC officials?"

The original poster never said you had to be a club, only that clubs were applying