I know this might seem silly but our team alternates drummers from race to race. Some off us fight the surge by keeping our backs up and stiff, while others let them go and snap back and forth. What is the proper technique and by fighting the surge can you slow the boat down?

Please comment

I prefer my drummers firm because I don't want them to bounce around the front and make the bow heavy when they flop downwards. How would being stiff slow the boat down?

drummers=boobs?

I would guess the motion you want is forward and back - i.e. use your butt to push the boat forward on the catch, then slowly rise back up to seated position so as not to disrupt the glide on the recovery.

You don't want to rock the boat up and down and push the nose down such as to kill the glide.

The stronger the bum the better

Staying firm but not letting the boat bounce you all over the place is the best? Interesting

I disagree. Why do you think steers people do the hip thrust thing - to look good. Any additional forward momentum you can give on the catch increases boats speed which inertia retains on the glide.

Why do drummers wear bikinis? Increase of speed?

Good race strategy - on the off chance that you may be able to distract another team's steersperson and hope they veer off and ram other boats (see Pickering)

Anon. August 17 2007, 1:48 PM

You may have heard of reactions having equal and opposite reactions. Drummer's centre of mass goes up on the paddlers recovery, bow of boat's CM is pushed into the water. Glide is hindered.

Center of mass = boobs?

House of Lancaster Drummer....remember the good old days!

I think the drummer and steerer should be "loose" and "fluid". Something like a surfer whose legs and upper body move somewhat independently. My second analogy is an Olympic Barbell that has ball bearings and the plates are allowed to spin or move as the barbell moves up and down. Try it with free weights where the plates won't spin and it will be jerky and not allowing the movement in the intended direction. No scientific basis to my theories.

Do most crews have a dedicated drummer?

We have a ft drummer but they are also a backup paddler

"Anon. August 17 2007, 1:48 PM

You may have heard of reactions having equal and opposite reactions. Drummer's centre of mass goes up on the paddlers recovery, bow of boat's CM is pushed into the water. Glide is hindered."

Yes. What is your point. The benefit of pushing the boat on the catch outways hindering the glide. These boats have a lot of intertia - sitting up (just like the other 20 paddlers in the boat) isn't going to slow you down a heck of a lot. But hitting your max speed just after the catch is key.

The drummer has to look like an FHM model

"Yes. What is your point. The benefit of pushing the boat on the catch outways hindering the glide. These boats have a lot of intertia - sitting up (just like the other 20 paddlers in the boat) isn't going to slow you down a heck of a lot. But hitting your max speed just after the catch is key."
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If you don't get my point, we'll have to sit down one day and talk since it's too long for me to type. I'll just say i'm talking about the drummer (since that is the topic of this thread) and not the paddlers.

On thing i know is that no dragon boat that I have been in hits the MAX speed after the catch. I would suggest that the top speed of the boat is closer to just before the exit. But hey, this could be a good debate.

Debate = big set of boobs?

"On thing i know is that no dragon boat that I have been in hits the MAX speed after the catch. I would suggest that the top speed of the boat is closer to just before the exit. But hey, this could be a good debate."

Fair enough. The drummer should use their momentum to increase the boat speed forward as much as possible for wherever in the stroke the crew hits their max speed.

As for Newton and his third law - inertia matters. This is the reason that on a calm day you can sit in a boat with no paddle and move it forward by sitting up really quickly to get it moving, and slowly bend back down again - slowing the boat, but still ending up moving forward because of the intertia caused by the initial, more powerful force.

1) Yes, a lot of teams have dedicated drummers. They are second in command of the boat and they relay info from steersperson to crew and from crew to strokes. They, like steersperson, are usually alternate paddlers as well.

2) Bikinis are nice, but not manadatory for drumming. On the physics side of things, the lighter the drummer the better. Breasts are not necessary for drumming.

3) The less drumming the better. Paddlers should be looking up at the stroke seat to get the timing. At some international competitions, they demand drummers to use the drum stick and drum. When they do, they usually ask for ONE drumbeat.

So what do drummers do on a typical race? I usually drum from novice level teams. What I have done is lock legs behind the drumseat, lie my belly across the drum and hang on to the back side of the drum. I am strictly yelling the strategy (start, ups, powers, finishes, let it run, hold hard) or whispering to the stroke seat to bring the rate faster or (more likely) slower. On the in between I am yelling at particular paddlers (without names) what they are doing wrong (look-up, reach, rotate, leg-drive, timing). I try to get my weight as far back to the boat as possible and I use my arms only to indicate we have crossed the finish line.

bigger is better.

"On the in between I am yelling at particular paddlers (without names) what they are doing wrong (look-up, reach, rotate, leg-drive, timing)."

Uh huh. Because what I really need in the middle of a race is a wailing a banshee shrieking at me that I'm "doing it wrong". So what I normally do after the race, is hold her head under the water until I don't see any more bubbles. Without mentioning her name, of course.

As for being "second-in-command" of the boat..... Ok, sweetie, whatever. You go ahead and be the second-in-command in your imagination if it makes you feel more important. Our drummer just relays whatever the hell the coach says. See, the COACH is the dude we PAY to train us, and to employ strategy, and give advice to make us all better paddlers, not the drummer. Given the egos among certain members I've seen over the years, yeah, that's all we need: another person who things she's running things. WTV!

That last post was clearly a Mayfair response. Instead of a bunch of competitive paddlers getting together lets collect money to buy a coach. I wonder if they ever considered upgrading their 80's uniforms?

Forum Troll
I knew if I waited long enough you'd make some inane comment

"Our drummer just relays whatever the hell the coach says. See, the COACH is the dude we PAY to train us, and to employ strategy, and give advice to make us all better paddlers, not the drummer"

When we practise, our coach (who we also pay) usually stands in front of the drummer, and when we race we leave him on shore. See we can get by in a race without the extra body, because our steersperson and drummer are running the show.

In an ideal world, the drummer would be in command of the boat, as they are in the best position to make tactical decisions (lets the steersperson concentrate on steering)and the whole crew can hear them much better. The Steersperson should only have to make calls related to positioning the boat and safety.

I will agree that providing individual criticism during a race is not particularly useful as it would distract the paddler in question, rather call out focus points to the boat in general.

Yes Forum Troll,

We do leave our coach on the dry land during races.

Also, yelling like a banshee, well, I yell in time of the strokes, and try to stick to single syllable words. As for "paddling technique" stuff, I see it from the front, and I would yell something like, "reach", knowing that seat x l/r would remember to reach more.

And no for you all, I only drum for NOVICE TEAMS when they need an extra body. I am just a sheeping paddler on my own team. Sadly enough, that is why I whisper to the stroke seats to slow down the rate, to prevent the rest of the boat hearing. As you know, rate speed-up seems to be a rookie mistake during the heat of the race. Most boats I have been on usual has seat 2 telling stroke seat of this issue.

Dear Pud-puller,

Firstly, glad to see you've retained the moniker I've bestowed upon you. I'll take that as a compliment, and a gesture of thanks. So, you're welcome.

Secondly, let's not get into the "ideal world" scenario, because that just busts open the door to a whole range of ludicrous arguments, and retorts. I could go on for a page and a half about how things OUGHT to look in an ideal world. (To begin with, I'd be running everything.)

Thirdly, this must be a regional thing. 'Round these parts, our coach IS the steersman. Leaving him on the dock would leave us literally without direction, as he's the dude who takes us through races. Thus, ONE VOICE: the coach/steersman. Our trust lies 100% with his knowledge, and experience, and so there's no need for the drummer whose sole qualification is that she doesn't weigh a whole lot, to begin flexing muscle in the boat, and start yapping at paddlers like a chihuahua. It's not her job, and it just leads to annoyance, and resentment. We've all heard some of those shrill voices. Again, in an ideal world, I'd be able to hold her head under water and get away with "murder one".

The coach knows exactly what he's doing. Thanks.

The way I see it, if he wants help, he can have a private discussion with the drummer, and work out a little plan. To my knowledge he has not done so. The only thing that IS clear, is that he just wants her to relay exactly what he says, so that the front of the boat can hear. That's it.

I await your inevitable reply.

Hey Trollie
I feel I can be familiar with you as I am one of your creations.
I don't know if it is a regional thing or not, I've paddled on a few teams in different areas and the coaches have either been paddlers on our team or another(in which case they don't coach during a race), or they coach a couple of teams and don't race.

Of course the disadvantage of this is that the Steersperson and drummer don't typically run the practice so they miss out on the training aspect (meaning verbal input).

The problem with my ideal drummer, is that someone that is light and has the boat/race smarts to do what I want, is also likely a paddler (an likely a good one) so they would serve better in the boat.

The best drummers I've had are those that have come out of paddling retirement to drum for us at a festival.

Trollie, you're good!

Wow, a coach and steersperson.

Most teams I know seem to encourage the coach to be a separate entity, floating around in the boat or in a coach boat (let is be powered skiff or an OC-1). Then, my apologies to Forum Troll on that one.

And yes, most drummers I have seen on more dedicated teams seem to be paddlers out of retirement.

Out East most of the coaches are also the steerspeople

"August 20 2007, 3:01 PM

As for Newton and his third law - inertia matters. This is the reason that on a calm day you can sit in a boat with no paddle and move it forward by sitting up really quickly to get it moving, and slowly bend back down again - slowing the boat, but still ending up moving forward because of the intertia caused by the initial, more powerful force."

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Try this. The results may surprise you.

Or maybe I've tried this, and that is why I am posting it here???

No need to get on a boat. Try it in your chair, especially the wheeled office variety. Same principle.

Nice!

Now try it with your drummer!

Try riding your drummer?

Talk about riding your drummer...

I know a team that as their uniform, they wear:
team jersey,
team headband/handkerchief and (get this)
team briefs.

All items have their team logo on it. The headband thing has their names on it. Most importantly, the t-bar briefs for women and reg briefs for men have slogans written along the top back.

One slogan for the men's was "Exit Only".

If I can only remember the name of the team. They wore blue.

T bar for the women... where they even worthy of showing their thongs?

T bar for the women... where they even worthy of showing their thongs?