Word in Sydney was that Tampa will host the 2011 Worlds. YUCK.

The US Nationals were held there last year and the water was nasty. Your uniform smelled like a mixture of fish and poop by the end of every day. I pity those who stay in hotels without public washing machines in 2011.

Aside from the stink factor, it seems that the IDBF fell for the Tampa lobbyists' line of putting the grandstand AFTER and FACING the finish line. No, the Worlds will not be held on the same tight course the Nationals were held. There is another site closeby on which the Worlds be held -- and there is no room for grandstands on the course. Spectators won't be able to tell who won any race that isn't a blowout. Let's hope this plan is not set in stone.

Are you kidding? 2011!? Wow.... the FUTURE!
We'll have silver jump suits,
and jet packs,
and food pills,
and flying cars,
and we won't have to walk anywhere because we'll all travel on conveyor belts like the Jetsons!

So what are you worried about the stench of fish, and poop for? You can get new paddling clothes every day from the suit-o-matic! Or... the robot maid can clean them for you.

Well this is bloody great news! Gee, I hope I'm still around to see it all...

I dunno where you paddle, but almost everywhere I've paddled smells like fish, poop, fishpoop, or sometimes much worse things (ie False Creek).

The WORLDS should not be held in a stink-hole.

I am looking forward to Tampa! Only 4 years away!

I can GUARANTEE that it will be warmer in Tampa than it was in Sydney!!!

US national were in Tampa, lot of crew races here too, deep water, good course, they will use the civic center as the place for team and race headquarters. It should be a good venue.

Stop hyping Tampa. The civic center is located AFTER the finish line. How do you view races like that? Are there any plans to make the races viewable from the side??

Let's see when they schedule the Tampa worlds. US National races had to be scheduled for 6AM because they didn't want you on the water at noon. Way to hot and humid! Why is Tampa pushing so hard for this? It's all about filling empty hotels! Seeing dolphins in the water is always cool.

Tampa is in the midst of a nasty real estate bust. Their economy needs all the help they can get. They'll do anything to drive tourism there.

The most important things at the Worlds is deep water, fair conditions, and good support of the racing. For all its faults off the water Berlin was a winner because of the racing. Tampa has a good course designed, there are plenty of US and Canadian officials available to help them ahead of time and during the event so the racing will be good and that is what matters most. The paddlers remember most what happens on the water. The Philly team raced in Tampa in 2006 and the local organizers did a great job on the nationals.

Beyond racing other things matter much less to those who compete. For instance in Tampa, there are plenty of nearby hotels in walking distance of the course which will be a nice feature but a secondary one. In Sydney our teams had a 35 minute drive to the site but nobody bitched because the racing was good.

There was nowhere to eat near the Sydney course other than one overpriced concession stand. Tampa will have plenty of options nearby. The only possible downside to Tampa is hot and humid weather and the potential delays of thunderstorms. Anyone who froze that one day in Sydney or multiple days in Poznan in 2003 will take that trade.

Tampa had around 12 people who went all the way to Sydney for their presentation, they are deeply committed to this and you should give them the benefit of the doubt.
Once you finish racing you can take a nice vacation close by on great beaches like St. Pete's beach, some of the best fishing in the World, a short hop to Disney, etc.

Finally, we certainly are thankful we won't have to spend the money and suffer the consequences of travelling 10 time zones like in Sydney and I would think Canada would see the benefit of that too. Look at the Canadian success in Toronto and Philly in 2001. Folks should be bowing down in praise to the Tampa organizers. I hope that Canada gets a bid together for a future IDBF worlds for the same reason.

"Finally, we certainly are thankful we won't have to spend the money and suffer the consequences of travelling 10 time zones like in Sydney and I would think Canada would see the benefit of that too. Look at the Canadian success in Toronto and Philly in 2001. Folks should be bowing down in praise to the Tampa organizers. I hope that Canada gets a bid together for a future IDBF worlds for the same reason."

Of course, from an economic perspective, any Worlds held in the US is a great advantage to the US and Canada. It costs a lot of money to get a team across an ocean. Although I'm not sure what "consequences" were suffered by your team when you travelled to Sydney. You won the Nations Cup! (Good job, btw.)

The issue with Tampa is from a spectator perspective. The races should not be only about the paddlers. Considering how many paddlers the US and Canada brought to Sydney, the amount of supporters those two teams alone could bring to Tampa would be very high. The Tampa Worlds race course will not be the same as the Tampa US Nationals course. Since the plan is to have everyone watch the races in a location that is placed beyond the finish line, the Tampa site is not the place to hold a world championship -- especially with locations like Philly having already proven to work just fine.

I'll go to Tampa and bring my family. Hard to do overseas.

Yeah, but they won't be able to see you race. Just drop them off at Disneyland! Then everyone will be happy!

"Tampa had around 12 people who went all the way to Sydney for their presentation, they are deeply committed to this and you should give them the benefit of the doubt."

Uh, no. Commitment and showing up does not warrant benefit of the doubt. To field your best teams, you always time trial the Philly guys -- even those who are "deeply committed" -- right? And sometimes the "deeply committed" guys don't make the cut. That's competition.

The Tampa people presenting in sydney proves that they want to host the worlds. But will they host it well? It would be great to hear how they will make the site viewable by all in attendance instead of having the paddlers compete in a vacuum.

Ok, here's the satellite map of the Tampa site. http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=h&trf=0&lon=-82.455128&lat=27.93691&mag=2

This is going to be the site for the WORLD championships? How on earth did the IDBF accept this? Were the Tampa reps that slick?

There really is nowhere for spectators. Word is that spectators and paddelrs will be at the Convention Center, with racing on Seddon Channel. You figure it out. I can't.

Tampa has been awarded the World Championships so there is no sense in continuing a debate about whether this was a good decision.

We should focus on making this the best World Championships ever held by the IDBF. I am sure the Tampa organizers would appreciate real assistance and constructive thoughts to help plan the event.

Move the North American continent closer to Europe, so European teams will actually attend.

Oh, that wasn't really constructive. Sorry.

"Tampa has been awarded the World Championships so there is no sense in continuing a debate about whether this was a good decision."

Are you joking? The IDBF has shown that nothing is set in stone. The 2009 Worlds were planned to be in Moscow, but THAT was changed recently and now the 2009 Worlds will be held in Poznan. With 4 years before the 2011 Worlds, there is plenty of time to find an alternate site than Tampa.

Moscow has not lost its rights to host the 2009 Championships - yet.

I've raced in Tampa for the past five years. I'm not aware of any stinking fish conditions etc... I do admire the nice condos, hotels and hockey stadium protecting us from windy conditions.

I suggest you stay home with Mr. Clean. Water sport is evidentally not your forte.

The races will not be in the usual channel (it's too narrow for six lanes), so your "protected by the wind" idea is irrelevant. Who's going to be the next apologist?

I heard from a reliable source at Dragonboat Canada that Welland is a strong consideration as well as Tampa for the Worlds. They are aware of the stellar conditions that Welland provides.

Tampa or Welland? That's an easy choice - Tampa.

Welland is an excellent course. Accommodations are affordable. Boring for canadians but would we ever have some strong teams. Flatties would be dominate all the crews.

Welland?? Um ya lets go to the boonies rather then using the brand new coarse in Toronto. Oh wait at least it will make for a good bush party after the event.

"Welland is an excellent course. Accommodations are affordable. Boring for canadians but would we ever have some strong teams. Flatties would be dominate all the crews."

Maybe that's why the US coach was lobbying for tampa here?

I was hoping never to hear about Welland again. Its a nice piece of water to be sure but there are better options when you look at all the relavent factors. All Welland really has going for it now that Toronto has a 500m race course is its 1000m distance. Toronto really blew it when they stopped building their rock wall at 600m.

"Welland is an excellent course. Accommodations are affordable. Boring for canadians but would we ever have some strong teams. Flatties would be dominate all the crews."

"Maybe that's why the US coach was lobbying for tampa here?"

Speaking as the current US coach, Welland is a great course, one of the best. It would actually be cheaper for us to go there (bus ride versus plane). Philly raced there in the 2005 NACC and, while you can only go to Niagara falls so many times, we would have no issues with worlds there. The point is moot as far as I am aware as Tampa has the bid and the goods to get it done.
As far as fearing "the flatties", you're darn right we would be worried about them just like we worried about False Creek and every Canadian team we have ever faced in the Worlds. It's called respecting your opponent.

Maybe Tampa is planning to built a new watercourse for the event?

A new watercourse would be great, but looking at the satellite view (see link above) it's hard to see where spectator seating could be constructed.

Welland has an allround better course than Toronto, cheaper accomidation, easier transportation etc. Best place for a major event.
Toronto has lots of stuff to do but you don't do stuff during the race week ; in my opinion Toronto has nothing to recomend it as a race site. Great place to go the week AFTER the races.

Congratulations to Tampa on winning the Worlds selection. They have an excellent venue, and an absolutely tremendous organizing committee which I am sure will handle any logistics issues more than adequately.

I have raced at every worlds since '97 and also raced in Tampa and I believe that Tampa will be an outstanding venue for the Worlds.

With respect to this thread, I believe that we should let the organizing committee identify and deal with potential issues over the next 4 years until the event. But there is no doubt that Tampa has the potential to host the best worlds ever.

Albert, you really sound you work for the PR firm for the Tampa organizers.

Can you tell us WHY you think Tampa will be a great venue? Simply saying "it will be!" is just hype. Show us where we will be able to view the races from. Remember, the course you raced on will not be the course the Worlds are planned for.

Albert's from the beasts, not from Tampa.
Tampa is planning to put a big cruise ship at the finish line for a timing tower and with grandstands for spectators. So there.

Tampa has the bid, resources and expertise to make this the best world championships ever. The racing will be tremendous with the best in North America having easy travel to the event. The cost of travel should make it easy for many Eurpean and East Bloc countries to attend as well.

I can't wait to line up in 4 years.

Care to elaborate on Tampa's "resources" and "expertise"? Or are you just going to continue to pile on the public-relations hype?

Good afternoon. As co-chairman of Tampa's bid to host the 2011 World Championships, I would like to respond to comments made regarding our selection.
We believe that a world class dragon boat team wants to compete against top competition, on a fair race course with accurate officiating. We will work with the IDBF to insure that this happens.
Our organization is fortunate to have the support of the City of Tampa and the locals hotels for the event. Of course, they are interested in the economic impact a successful event will have and it's in their best interest to help us keep costs down to insure the largest number of countries participate. The section committee made us aware of what the ahtletes and spectators should expect to experience in Tampa. Yes, we are guilty of having beaches, golf courses, tourist attractions and Disney World an hour away, but the best place to be will be racing and watching the races from an excellant viewing point.
The water doesn't stink.
You will enjoy practicing and racing on the water of Tampa.
We are four years away from hosting the event and appreciate comments and suggestions. This forum will enable us to hear your concerns.
Thanks for your time, Kevin Burns

At least the girl who organizes the races is a paddler so she will have a realpoint of view than a non-dragon boater... plus she's hot!!

Kevin,

Thanks for contacting us here. Tough crowd!

Looking at the satellite view, there is no good vantage point (as of now) to view the races if they are held on Seddon Channel because the channel looks to be surrounded by private property on both sides. Can you elaborate on your promise to allow us to be "watching the races from an excellent viewing point"? Also, how do you handle those Tampa residents who own boats parked along the course?

As for the water being smelly -- well, let's just say that as long as the hotels have laundry facilities, everyone will be ok. ; )

To the people who complain about "smelly water" in Tampa, I've got bad news for you: salt water smells. Unpolluted salt water doesn't smell too bad but it will stink up your clothes for sure. I have a tote bag I've been using for a couple of years to put wet clothes after practice. The bag now has to be treated in a fashion similar to nuclear waste.

Given the depth of this ship channel (9m) and the additional buoyancy that salt water provides you can bet we'll be seeing 500m times in the low 2:40's by the time Tampa rolls around.

Guys, the event is in 2011.

Did you mean to write times in the 1:40's??

damn, this has become such an issue because of stinky water. Deal with it its a "water sport" and you're going to have participate in waters that you probably contribute to the pollution indirectly. If you want the cleanest water to participate than go into the amazon, north pole or south pole, which are areas that are somewhat untouched. You guys are a bunch of b*tches. When you guys start growing a third toe or delevoping some pulmonary disease then start complaining. Otherwise go whine to your mothers maybe they'll listen.

Third toe????

I've got 10. Who should I start complaining to?

I agree. A serious athelete puts in hours of very painful training through extreme mental disciple. But put them in smelly water and they'll fall to pieces and complain nonstop? Water odour really shouldn't matter - much.

why are you so concerned about water odour when the odour coming out of your mouth is even worse! I call you Mr. BO from now on. sheesh

Idiots,

It's not the smell of the water, per se. That can be dealt with on race day. It's what your uniform smells like later that night, and the next day, and the next, and the next. Last time I raced in Tampa our uniforms stunk like all hell that night. Never smelled anything like it -- like dead fish or something. Luckily, the hotel had a few coin-op washing machines and dryers. BTW, washing your clothes in a sink and hanging them in your room does no good because they won't dry in Tampa because the summer humidity is very high (the air conditioning won't do it.).

Jersey's smell regardless. If yours don't you should try breaking a sweat during practice.

The water's fine. Don't know what other attendees were smoking (or is it the euphoria of winning) but the 2006 Nationals were poorly managed on the water. Boats held by the tail on floating docks, and pointed in whichever direction, many starting in lanes not their own. That said, I would think that the world standard would raise the bar.

The organizers are slick, but the sports needs the p.r. and the money, so it's a benefit overall, as long as it's not carried too far. Warning: be prepared to pay to pay for everything, including being able to go to the podium to collect your medals.

"Warning: be prepared to pay to pay for everything, including being able to go to the podium to collect your medals."

I am not a Tampa organizer but I bet this is a completely made up fact. Even if they were going to do this, it is four years away. Anybody who would be in charge of this would not have even considered it yet.

Has any other city even put in a bid to host the 2011 Worlds?

It sounds like there's money to be made from the athletes at National and International competitions. Sydney was quite expensive. I get it - get a captive audience of several hundred amateur athletes, and force them to spend money at the event. Pretty good gig. And then we thank them for the favour?

Someone start a thread on that!!

These people who are complaining about water stench clearly have never paddled at a world championship in Hong Kong. I'm thinking if your concern is smelly water you don't have what it takes to make it to the world championships. Since you will not be attending Tampa shut up and stay off the thread. Go back to what you know. Getting pumped up for your one practice a week and making excuses as to why you still suck and can't win.

National team paddlers are definitely not on this thread. You paddle in what you have to. Too many hands aren't paddling and are busy on this forum. Go join an off-season sport. I've got my rec volleyball tournaments starting up. See ya in April!

"These people who are complaining about water stench clearly have never paddled at a world championship in Hong Kong. I'm thinking if your concern is smelly water you don't have what it takes to make it to the world championships. Since you will not be attending Tampa shut up and stay off the thread. Go back to what you know. Getting pumped up for your one practice a week and making excuses as to why you still suck and can't win."


The idiotic logic on these boards never ceases to amaze.

The IDBF hasn't has a World Championship in Hong Kong since 1997. That's 10 years ago. You expect everyone who is going to compete in future Worlds to have competed in 1997?? There is a lot of new blood in this sport since 1997.

"It sounds like there's money to be made from the athletes at National and International competitions. Sydney was quite expensive. I get it - get a captive audience of several hundred amateur athletes, and force them to spend money at the event. Pretty good gig. And then we thank them for the favour? "

How would you like it if things were different -- like free room and board when you arrive at the host city? That's what the ICF has been offering, and that's a big reason why the ICF World Championships have been attracting some of the top teams, which were not present in Sydney.

The US and Canada had the largest number of paddlers in Sydney. If just one of those countries decides to take their athletes to the ICF Worlds in the future, the IDBF is pretty much dead.

The ICF is going forward with its dragon boat plans.

Oct. 20 4:35


I think you missed the point there. The poster was using Hong Kong as an example of the type of nasty water that people at the world level have competed in. Athletes at the world level don't really care what the water or smell of water is like. It's about winning the worlds. The point is that all these people are complaining about where it is going to be and the fact is maybe 1% of these posters are actually good enough to make a national team. So to spell this out for you. People at the highest level of dragon boat will go becasue it's the worlds. I seriously doubt that water stench will be a deal breaker for any crew.

Don't think I ever said the same athletes were competeing today as they did in 1997. So you F*&%ing IDIOT! Look at the above posters coments, they understood. I guess the old addage "when yo point a finger, there's always two pointing back at you" In this A**holes case he has four pointing back. All middle fingers mind you.

The issue isn't whether teams will show up to paddle in smelly water. If the worlds are indeed held in Tampa, of course the water stench will not effect anyones choice to show up. But shouldn't the top paddlers be competing in the top locales? That's the issue. The biggest race of all -- the Worlds -- should be held on a real course. Like Sydney, Poznan, Shanghai. There is something very odd about the IDBF's choice of Tampa, because the course is not a dedicated race course. You have to wonder why there were so few other options for the IDBF.

The IDBF seems to be going slowly downhill regarding its world championships. Fewer top teams were at Berlin than Shanghai. And fewer in Sydney than Berlin. Now the IDBF chooses a public channel in Tampa for the 2011 Worlds. Something stinks, and it's not the water in Tampa.

To the ICF loyalist who keeps posting here. You are in a dreamworld (or a nightmare I suspect). First of all, ICF dragon boat never got off the ground. It's so-called world level events were a joke to start and a PR excercise to try and make their case with GAISF. It's pretty easy to accomodate 8 teams, which is about what showed up at their last feable attempt at a WC. Try accomodating 100 teams for free. The last nail in the ICF coffin was the GAISF decision to let IDBF govern dragon boat world wide. Other than a few death groans, ICF's dragon boat ambitions are dead. If you want to debate further, start your own thread. This one's about Tampa worlds 2011.

I'm not a ICF "loyalist". I've yet to even race in a ICF event. But if you think the GAISF decdion has stopped the ICF from pursuing dragon boating, you're mistaken. The ICF will continue to host their version of the World Championships, as detailed on their website. (Check the list of events.) The ICF has already become a legitimate option for some of the world's top teams -- that's why there have been fewer teams at the IDBF Worlds since Shanghai.

What top teams are you referring to? The ICF web site jibber-jabber is just that. There is so much misinformation and embelishment there it's comical.

I heard that NASA is developing special filters to be inserted into racers noses to combat the stench. If everything stays on track, the NASA project should be completed in 2010 and they can be tested for a year before the World Championships.

The best of the best are going to attend in Tampa. It should be a great event.

You should volunteer to help out. I'm sure they'd appreciate it down there.

ICF will rule the dragonboat landscape by 2011. The Tampa event will happen but there is little or no chance that the best crews will be there.

Give it a rest dude.

...if the ICF has taken over (God rest our souls) then so be it. But don't try to make it happen through trashy annonymous forum hype.

"don't try to make it happen through trashy annonymous forum hype."

This is great advice for all poster on this site. Well said.

I love it when people anonymously complain about anonymous postings.

The anonymous posts keep this website honest and active.

I never complained about annonymous posting.

The point is it has little credibility - one person could post the same message 50 times over and make it seem that a lot of people support the view.

how do we know you did not complain about anonymous postings? I did not complain about them.

Someone wrote

"I love it when people anonymously complain about anonymous postings."

But clearly no one had complained in this thread. That was my point.

To the ICF posters: The ICF believes that if they keep saying it, it will become true. It's a clever tactic to sow insecurity and divisiveness within the DB world. ICF DB events have NOT yet attracted many quality teams. If that was so, the ICF-backed European DB Championship would not have been cancelled this summer because all of the so-called best European Canoe-DB teams would have been there.

Hey everyone. Kevin and Keith, the co-chairs of the Tampa worlds are a couple of hot guys.

As someone who paddles on the waters of Seddon Channel in Tampa several times a week, I can attest that the race course for Worlds will offer great viewing opportunites of both the race course and the finish line. Spectators will not be just at the convention center....but also at Jackson's at the Westin Hotel on the east side and along city parks as wll as the new pedestrian esplanade that runs adjacent to the Tampa General Hospital. The garage at TGH offers exceptional viewing opportunities on many different levels. While not a park setting, this venue will be more urban by nature.

The race course itself is used all the time for dragon boat practices as well as by rowing crew from across the country who travel to Tampa for winter and spring break training on Seddon Channel.

The Tampa organizers have many ideas and the resources to make for great races & spectating!

It's a very rare occasion for the waters of Tampa to be "stinky", usually only after a very heavy rainfall, as was experienced on the Friday morning of the 2006 Nationals.

We look forward to you coming to Tampa!

As someone who paddles on the waters of Seddon Channel in Tampa several times a week, I can attest that the race course for Worlds will offer great viewing opportunites of both the race course and the finish line. Spectators will not be just at the convention center....but also at Jackson's at the Westin Hotel on the east side and along city parks as wll as the new pedestrian esplanade that runs adjacent to the Tampa General Hospital. The garage at TGH offers exceptional viewing opportunities on many different levels. While not a park setting, this venue will be more urban by nature.

The race course itself is used all the time for dragon boat practices as well as by rowing crew from across the country who travel to Tampa for winter and spring break training on Seddon Channel.

The Tampa organizers have many ideas and the resources to make for great races & spectating!

It's a very rare occasion for the waters of Tampa to be "stinky", usually only after a very heavy rainfall, as was experienced on the Friday morning of the 2006 Nationals.

We look forward to you coming to Tampa!

Any paddling around Tampa ? I will be visiting.

USDBF Decision Mystifies Aspiring 2010 Host Cities
American cities and festival operators who aspire to host a future National Championship event
are very confused by the behaviour of the USDBF these past weeks. Particularly those who
placed their bet on Tampa’s now successful bid to host the 2011 IDBF World Championships. At
least a couple of cities of which I am aware made a conscious decision to by-pass the 2008
edition of the National Championships in order to focus their efforts on a 2010 bid. Their
reasoning made perfect sense. If the 2011 world’s were being held in the USA then participation
levels at the 2010 nationals, which traditionally double as a qualifying event for the following
year’s worlds, would likely be much higher. The word on the street is that the USDBF executive
could not make the hard decision between short-listed Long Beach and Knoxville to host the
2008 national event. Rather than choose between the two an announcement is expected shortly
which will see the 2008 National Championships in Long Beach and… the 2010 National
Championships in Knoxville? Excuse me?! When did that RFP come out?
Now, I have nothing against Knoxville. Dynamic Events is the resident dragon boat production
firm in Tennessee and has produced quality events for a number of years. In fact, I have it on
good authority that the site selection committee actually recommended Knoxville for 2008.
The USDBF’s curious course of action begs the question; why did the executive not follow the
recommendations of their independent site selection committee? My past experience with US
National bid process is that the selection committee’s decision was basically rubber stamped with
minor, if any, adjustments. Regardless, it was certainly the case that due process was routinely
followed. For 2010, the USDBF seems resigned not to develop a process at all. Mystifying at the
very least; frustrating for others who may now consider 2012… or not.
Mike Kerkmann is president of Great White North and the IDBF Council Representative for North America.

f you plan to visit Tampa soon, go to www.tbdbc.com for information on how to hop onto a Club practice session. You're welcome to hop onto a boat, as long as there is a seat available. We usually take out 2 boats at 8:30am from the Mariott docks downtown.

If I am going to hop "onto" a boat may I sit on top of the dragon?

yes...although it is hard to row from there...

Not to worry. You don't actually row a Dragon Boat.

"Spectators will not be just at the convention center....but also at Jackson's at the Westin Hotel on the east side and along city parks as wll as the new pedestrian esplanade that runs adjacent to the Tampa General Hospital. The garage at TGH offers exceptional viewing opportunities on many different levels. While not a park setting, this venue will be more urban by nature."


Wow, wonderful options.

Jackson's: this is a RESTAURANT!!!

Pedestrian esplanade: this is FLAT. Will there be seating?

Parking garage: ARE YOU KIDDING ME????


When will the Tampa apologists stop this nonsense? Will there be any place to sit and watch the races near the finish line of the World Championships? So far, the answer is no.