After the first round, Mayfair was fastest (just under 2 minutes in an outside lane), Hydros 2nd, Canadian Seniors 3rd (inside lane).

No change in position after 2nd round. Mayfair (inside lane) just over 2 minutes, Hydros 1 second slower, Seniors about 2:04, 1 second slower than their first time. Looks like the race will be between Mayfair and Hydros.

How did Manayunk do?

Half of the teams (including Manayunk) hadn't raced until the afternoon... I think it is premature to declare Mayfair and Hydros as the top teams!

First round of the second half:
Hanalei: 2:03
HammerHeads: 2:04
Pirhanas: 2:04
BigFish: 2:05
Manayunk: 2:06

Results for Saturday are up. http://www.jonathanyam.com/db2008/results.html

A Final for tomorrow:

Mayfair
CSDC
Hydro
Hanalei
Pirhanas
Hammerheads

Race 70/109, 9:50AM/4:40PM
1 Outer Harbour DBC
Hammerheads
2 Canadian Senior DBC
CSDC Senior Mixed
3 Outer Harbour DBC
Hydrophobic Dragons powered by Apex Paddles
4 Outer Harbour DBC
Mayfair Predators
5 Hanalei
6 Piranhas DBC

LOL the lineups are exactly the same for the two races? i wonder if there is going to be a big change between the races and the results, thats a really long time between the two!

To remove discriminations between MORNING and EVENING paddlers, they specifically designed a SEVEN HOURS GAP between the TOP TEAMS. This is when practising both in the morning and in the evening (or late afternoon) will be a DEFINITE ADVANTAGE.

Sheesh, whatever happened to CORPORATE TEAMS?!

why is pfizer in Premier Mixed C? Their time says otherwise. 2:30 and 2:25 how did that work out...?

That's what I don't understand. Boehringer Ingleheim (Canada) Ltd
BI Dragons did a 2:20.02 and a 2:13.98 and they are in the “F” division. Someone screwed up somewhere!!

BI seems in the right place.

Pfizer is DEFINITELY not.

whos in A B C finals?

http://www.jonathanyam.com/db2008/day2.html

Link to Sunday line up.

Waiting out the SEVEN HOURS between races, I decided to drag out the laptop and post some results...

Mayfair 1:55.80
Hydros 1:58.49
CSDC 1:59.83
Hanalei 2:01.05
HHeads 2:02.77
Piranhas 2:04.99

Fast times and I think its safe to say the water level is high.

Having came home after crying from another loss to Mayfair...here are the Grand Finals results:

Mayfair 1:55 (so what else is new?!)
Hydro 1:56 (very strong, but still can't touch Mayfair)
Hanalei 1:57 (ride washing Mayfair to a 4 seconds improvement over last race)
CSDC 1:58 (strong, but no Mayfair contender)
Piranhas 2:00 (looks great in last race...ready for Malaysia)
Hammerheads 2:02 (welcome back HH's!)

Hmm, based on the positive vs negative comments above, "A Finalist" paddles for either Piranhas or Hammerheads.

Mayfair rocks. Should be a great show down at Nationals with False Creek.

Anon @ 9:58 PM

You have absolutely no CLUE who the poster was. Stop guessing - you suck at it.

"A Finalist" sounds like a moron.

Observations about this weekends races: Hydros have made amazing progress! Mayfair still rules & very tight B & C race times.

2008 Toronto International Dragon Boat Race Festival
Official Results

106 Premier Mixed Final D
TELUS Day 2 Sunday
Race Time 4:10:00 PM
1 Shockwave DBC 2:11.13 3
2 TD Canada Trust
TDCT Twin Dragons 2:12.05 6
3 Bank of Montreal
BMO First Dragons 2:11.55 5
4 Old Skul'd 2:09.76 2
5 University of Toronto Engineering
Iron Dragons 2:09.63 1
6 Wahoos DBC 2:11.48 4


107 Premier Mixed Final C
TELUS Day 2 Sunday
Race Time 4:20:00 PM
1 Excellent Stores Limited (Trinidad)
Excellent Stores Titans 2:10.68 5
2 University of Toronto Victoria College DBC
VICrew 2:10.38 4
3 The Blades 2:06.64 2
4 University of Toronto New College
New Dragons 2:06.21 1
5 Outer Harbour DBC
Warriors 2:07.36 3
6 University of Toronto University College DBC
Waterdragons 2:12.68 6


108 Premier Mixed Final B
TELUS Day 2 Sunday
Race Time 4:30:00 PM
1 St Joseph's Health Centre
The Saints 2:07.71 6
2 Manayunk Dragon Boat Racing Team (Philadelphia) 2:07.36 5
3 Big Fish 2:06.34 3
4 Scotiabank
Scotia Rouge 2:03.51 1
5 Hamburger Drachenboot Club e.V. (Hamburg, Germany)
Hamburg Syndicate Dragonboat Team 2:05.43 2
6 GlaxoSmithKline
GSK Firedragons 2:06.49 4


109 Premier Mixed Grand Championship
TELUS Grand Championship Cup Day 2 Sunday
Race Time 4:40:00 PM
1 Outer Harbour DBC
Hammerheads 2:02.59 6
2 Canadian Senior DBC
CSDC Senior Mixed 1:58.45 4
3 Outer Harbour DBC
Hydrophobic Dragons powered by Apex Paddles 1:56.82 2
4 Outer Harbour DBC
Mayfair Predators 1:55.85 1
5 Hanalei 1:57.82 3
6 Piranhas DBC 2:00.07 5

So anyone have video of the A Final?

lane 1 OHBDC Hammerheads___2:02.59______(6)
lane 2 CSDC Senior Mixed______1:58.45______(4)
lane 3 OHDBC Hydrophobic_____1:56.82______(2)
lane 4 OHDBC Mayfair Preds____1:55.85______(1)
lane 5 Hanalei_______________1:57.82______(3)
lane 6 Piranahs DBC__________2:00.07______(5)

Manayunk had maybe 7-8 guys here, that's all. The rest of their mixed squad appeared to be filled with CSDC's male and female subs. Manayunk also entered the only Open race and combined with CSDC's guys. They won by a slim margin over Rip the Fondue.

7-8 guys, any women? If not then most of the boat was Canadian. Seems like they should have picked another name like Manacanuck?

Ill see you in.....GWN...erhm

positive spin for all the A finalists cause they deserve it, it was a hard weekend for them.

1. Mayfair 1:55: Showing it how its done. One of the top teams in Canada and deservingly so. Gearing up for Malaysia and will represent Canada well. Amazing.
2. Hydro 1:56: The future of the sport in this town. Giving Mayfair a run for their money and making them work. Amazing again.
3. Hanalei 1:57: Too much is said about how this team is known to be a washriding crew but the fact remains they qualified top 4 so they are fast and strong. Good showing.
4. CSDC 1:58 : Wicked showing, showing us young folks that we got nothing on them. Really good showing for making that battle from 1-4 tight.
5. Piranhas 2:00 : I guess its redemption for this team after being relegated to 12 spot by the forum naysayers. Almost cracked sub 2 without the express lane, not bad.
6. Hammerheads 2:02: Another redeemed team and giving it all and reaching the A final. Strong showing.

comon ppl, Mayfair, "one of the top crews in Canada"..... please replace canada with "the World"!!

1:55 twice in one day.... draw your own conclusions/!

To the following teams:

Mayfair - Wow. 1:55? I don't think there is a word that can describe their dominance. Well done.
Hydros - Although still not a legitimate threat to Mayfair, at their rate of improvement they are going to be better than everyone by 2009.
Piranahs - Major redemption from the very low expectations posted in the predictions thread. 2 minutes flat in a non-washriding lane is impressive.
Hammerheads - Strong push to knock out perrenial favourite Scotia Rouge and fish nesmesis Big Fish.

Great racing this weekend for Canadian Dragon Boat!

Mayfair, Events Alive, Hydro and SCC !

I think if Mayfair, SCC Montreal Men, and Rip the Fondue continue to train hard they will hopefully cause some serious damage in Penang !

The NCC and Canadians should be amazing to watch this year and some are predicting it will be some of Canadian best and fastest teams to date.

Bring on the OLYMPICs Canada is ready !

"comon ppl, Mayfair, "one of the top crews in Canada"..... please replace canada with "the World"!!
1:55 twice in one day.... draw your own conclusions/!"

BEST RECRUITMENT PROGRAM IN CANADA.
FULLSTOP.

Hydro's are the real deal as a crew.
Mayfair, nice National Team.

Now now....people were saying the same thing about Imperial when they were dominant. Top crews attract and retain top talent. In my eyes Mayfair moved back to "true club crew" status when they kept their superstars and had them train together over the last two years. G&G is the team that should be labeled more as a "national crew" since their paddlers don't really train together all that much.

nice job, OHDBC

are the ohdbc teams associated in anyway other than practice location?

Exactly. Not at all.

OHDBC is a paddling centre with little to no cross-pollenization or integration between teams. It's just an entity created to satisfy DBC's mandate to impose a club structure on Canadian dragonboat. There are few true multi-crew "clubs".

LTFD...
True Club Crew - kinda.
I'd buy that argument if 90% of the crew were not trying out for National Crews
and their coach is part of the Mayfair organization.

No doubt that they have upped the level of racing, and showed how a bunch of
kids hung in their to the end - Hydro's. Great Final. Way to go Hydro's.

ouch. bitter.

OH is a collection of mixed crews under a common board who all support women's, senior etc... specialty crews. Club enough. If anything, allowing crews to micromanage themselves has proven a lot more effective in growing the sport.

DBC isn't imposing anything. Just conforming with IDBF regulations.

That being said, let's hold off on best in the world until Malaysia.

Great job to all the A-finalists at the island this past weekend. This year's island race may have been the most difficult ever in terms of making the A-final. I believe its also the fastest A Final in the event's history with four sub-2 minute teams and the remaining crews not too far behind.

But based on the predictions, some crews seriously underperformed:

Scotia Rouge: A lock by every predictor. Wins B division but didn't make A despite being in the morning races when conditions were better.

Big Fish: In contention for the Grand Chamoionship after the first race (ranked around 7th with a 2:05) but stumbled badly in the second race with a time near 2:10.

Manayunk: Forum predictors heavily favoured this crew without knowing much about them. Despite adding CSDC paddlers, they didn't come close to the A division and were even blown out but the Piranahs in their second race with a 2:10 time.

Hamburg: Same as Manayunk with lower expectations. Really big boys in that boat. There is a 6'3" guy sitting is seat #2!

Mayfair is the best club team in the world and will prove it at Nationals and then in Penang.

1:55 twice in one day - maybe False Creek can race with them - no one else can.

i hope mayfair and hydro would consider going to Ottawa to race against Events Alive ... that would be a AWESOME race to watch.

Ottawa is a horrible race if you are a racer. Great if you love beer.

Events alive wouldn't compete. It took every national team canoer they could muster to just nip the beasts last year.

maybe events alive should come to toronto. By far, thats where the competition was this weekend!

i heard that events alive only do dragon boat race once a year (Ottawa). that's it. i dont think they will travel to toronto to do dragon boat race.

the best time they posted was 1:56, and chiro wow, did 1:57 as best their time for the weekend i believe

would be nice to see in a race mayfair, hydro, events alive and chiro... dont blink or you will miss the freakin race

what would it take to get all the great teams in canada to come to a festival at the end of the year. GWN, quebec cup? Canadian championships? I'd like to see that!

Canadian Championships will be as close as we get. Mayfair and Dragon Beasts are going. Events will never travel. I assume Hydro as well as every other A-finalist team will be there (TIDBRF and Pickering). I'd be surprised if Sudbury and Verdun don't come as well. Only teams we won't see of note will likely be FCRCC and Gorging.

Interesting, do we have a confirmed list of teams coming to the Cdn championships?

Just came back from Ottawa and is was amazing. Best festival ever. Racing always ontime and they finally used a canno for starting. What a weekend.

cdn champs

not official, but from the crews:

mayfair,
beasts
False creek
Verdun

Re: Toronto Island Results June 23 2008, 9:46 AM

"i heard that events alive only do dragon boat race once a year (Ottawa). that's it. i dont think they will travel to toronto to do dragon boat race.

the best time they posted was 1:56, and chiro wow, did 1:57 as best their time for the weekend i believe

would be nice to see in a race mayfair, hydro, events alive and chiro... dont blink or you will miss the freakin race"

Events Alive posted a 1:52.

Times across regattas aren't comparable. Even in the same event at different times isn't.

Mayfair could have potentially had an even faster time if they didn't have wash-riding hanalei beside them

Whats the deal with the top 12.. no University teams anywhere?
they even got smoked by a Hospital team.. who the hell is St Jo fish anyways?

It wasn't just Hanalei wash riding! Both crews moved right in to catch the bus, and Hydros timed their shoot very nicely... just not strong enough (yet) to power past Mayfair.

"Mayfair could have potentially had an even faster time if they didn't have wash-riding hanalei beside them"

Totally true. Throughout the race you could hear the referee in the chase boat screaming at Hanalei. "Lane 5 get back in your lane". "Lane 5 get back in your lane or you will be disqualified". All this as Brad was weaving Hanalei into the ghost lanes in between buoys. GWN, if you are going to have ghost lanes, IMMEDIATELY disqualify teams for crossing into that area. You were yelling at them all throughout the race but nothing happened and they grabbed third. If the excuse is because they always passed the ghost lane buoys on the proper side, then lay down more buoys. Otherwise we're all going to do the same thing.

7-8 guys, any women? If not then most of the boat was Canadian. Seems like they should have picked another name like Manacanuck?

I like "Canayunk" better:)

Thanks for taking the time to comment on the non-A finalists, but I have to take some exception to being referred to as an "underacheiver". Not every team is good enough to make the "A" final. We weren't, but that doesn't make us an underachiever. We achieved EXACTLY what we were capable of, not "under" anything.

Hats off to the A Finalists for an amazing performance, you all absolutely deserved your spots in the Big Show. But as for the rest of us who are still aspiring to reach those heights, don't call us underachievers. We are what we are and we're working to get better.

"Throughout the race you could hear the referee in the chase boat screaming at Hanalei. "Lane 5 get back in your lane". "Lane 5 get back in your lane or you will be disqualified". All this as Brad was weaving Hanalei into the ghost lanes in between buoys. GWN, if you are going to have ghost lanes, IMMEDIATELY disqualify teams for crossing into that area."

Same crap happens everywhere it seems.
It only has to happen once or twice where the race officials have the guts to do this and actually DQ a team or slap a time penalty on them. The issue is not so much slowing down a Mayfair who is going to win anyway but getting an edge on the other boats who deserve a fairer shot at a medal. You can argue they should have gone faster in the prelims to get next to the bus but unless you have advancement by place (which is impossible with so many teams) you cannot be assured the most deserving teams are in the center lanes.

This is pretty funny, the one poster above says it happens everywhere and the adjacent thread says this:

Re: Alcan Day 1 June 23 2008, 2:20 AM

Yep,it was a 1.55 mixed w/ the second and third place teams riding the False Creeks wash in the mixed .From what I saw both of those teams crossed into False Creeks lane trying to take advantage ,Smart race on the part of second and third

Opinions on it have evolved. In the early years of this forum, washriding was uniformally hated by everyone posting here. Then it gradually became a "damned if you do damned if you don't" situation and accepted practice given the lax rule enforcement. After all, it sucks to follow the rules and watch some jerk cheating and beating you. Same thing with posters from the west. I remember them saying it was an East Coast thing to washride. Now everyone does it over there too.

"Throughout the race you could hear the referee in the chase boat screaming at Hanalei. "Lane 5 get back in your lane". "Lane 5 get back in your lane or you will be disqualified". All this as Brad was weaving Hanalei into the ghost lanes in between buoys. GWN, if you are going to have ghost lanes, IMMEDIATELY disqualify teams for crossing into that area."

I agree. Your rules are clear. Any team that crosses into that area gets DQ'd. A-division steerspeople don't make mistakes. One warning and then DQ them. Or at least slap a 5-second time penalty on them. It looks like they just simply ignored you. Toothless Lions.

Not quite true...some of us have always loved wash-riding.

There is no question that it happens.
There are several crews that did not have any help getting into their respective final,
others certainly had the ride in heats and finals.

I found a picture of GWN during the A-final

A DQ was definently not needed in the 'A' final at the island. Mayfair was an incredible 1.55 and Hydros and Hanalei definently rode some wash. It is part of the sport and everyone does it. Also when Mayfair is going that fast you can't help but hop on.

I don't know if Hanalei wold have beat the seniors in a different lane.

Like everyone else I look forward to seeing Mayfair race False Creek. But after seeing Mayfair race this year and how hard they have been working. I do not see False Creek matching Mayfair.

Also at World's last year, maybe it wasn't their best team, but False Creek looked horrible. They were beat the USA, that's embaressing that only our premier team couldn't beat the USA. The seniors and grandmasters killed the USA.

it is part or racing get with it or you will be left behind.

I agree it is a part of the sport. But when an organization (GWN) prides itself on developing anti-washriding (or at least reduction) improvements like the ghost lane. It is frustrating to see them not enforce this rule and ALLOW teams to go in there without penalty. GWN created a "no-fly zone" and then proceeded to allow teams to go in there. Reduce your fees and remove the ghost lanes if you're not going to enforce it.

did you know you can view your credit score for free?.... get over it.. 2nd place wash riders still get to lick the lions balls.. mayfair is gwn.. what do we care as long as we win?

i believe it was the same thing last year at GWN, Hanalei rode MGD's wash (i think, can't remember)

"mayfair is gwn"

Good point. Notice how many Mayfair paddlers were wearing inflatable lifejackets? The same lifejackets that GWN told everyone they cannot use? Several people asked if inflatable lifejackets could be used over the weekend and we consistently heard "no".

I was in the A-FInal, heard the warnings and asked one of the officials after the event. Lane 5 was not out of their lane, but were hugging the buoys. No penalty without leaving the lane, just a warning to let you know they are watching you.

I agree that you can't penalize someone for staying in their lane and hugging the buoys to catch the bus. You are just fooling yourself that you're better than you really are and cheating better crews out of their deserved rewards. But it was nice to see that GWN was at least on to their antics.

They were definitely allowed, not just to Mayfair. It seems to depend on who you ask - I guess the last minute change in policy did not get communicated to all volunteers. We named our inflatables Kandy and Sindy.

"Also at World's last year, maybe it wasn't their best team, but False Creek looked horrible. They were beat the USA, that's embaressing that only our premier team couldn't beat the USA. The seniors and grandmasters killed the USA."

Second place in the 500 mixed at worlds is horrible? They also won the 2000 mixed (yeah, yeah, USA not in it but would still have been at least 2nd).
Even the great eastern Premier teams have lost to the USA, two out of three in Berlin in fact (1000 and 500). The FCRCC men's team did a respectable job in Sydney, times were real fast over there, the USA had a great regatta, sometimes a team just clicks, the Brits were stoked (we saw their video remember?) and coming off European championship wins just like the Slovaks. Throw in two super fast Asian teams (China and the Phillipines)with a short travel time and the home field advantage to the Aussies and there you go, a stacked deck against a team that had a late start getting it together.

And comparing seniors is ludicrous, the CDN senior boat was stacked with Premier level eastern paddlers and pumped to take on China for one last hurrah (who didn't show) while the US team had its best seniors in their Premier boat.

I can see FCRCC putting your crap up on the locker room wall right now.

the point of ghost lanes isn't a "no-fly-zone," it's just to create more room in between teams. This discourages washriding cause you have to go farther to find a better wave. If you have a good steers person, or the other team is hugging a side of their lane, then you can still get it. If a team hits all their can's then there's no time penalty, they kept their lane. I really don't see a problem. Why rag on a team cause they had a good steers person? A cox isn't just the fat guy who yells at the team, they're an important part of the race, and should be an important part of crew selection.

If you want to make it harder to ride, you hafta add more buoys, which means everyone hasta pay higher fees, and it also makes it less exciting and dynamic imo.

Enough with sour grapes already!
Hanalei are consistently good enough to make it to the A Final. I'm pretty sure they placed ahead of the Hydros in Pickering. At the Island they were seeded 3rd (behind Mayfair and Hydros) after Saturdays heats which, if you look at the heat results, they led all the way and won with open water. They were seeded 3rd and placed 3rd in the final. 'Nuff said.
Okay wash riding whiners- back to you now.

Racing at the Island is full of wash riding. There is no way to avoid it.

Come up with a good team strategy and anything can happen.

Congratulations to all the teams that raced. The lion comments have been funny. Mayfair definantely unleashed the lion this weekend. It will be exciting to watch them and all of the other great teams at NTT/Canadian Championships. Funny how people name their life jackets.

I normally would not come on here to defend my actions or those of a Hanalei. Here's the deal to set the record straight. Yes I got four warnings for being close to the lane markers. At no point did i go out of my lane. At no point was i in a ghost lane. In fact I recieved all four warnings in the span of 100m. The ref's were very good at seeing it and did there job to make sure it was not going to happen the whole race. Good offcials there at GWN. As for Hanalei, i realize that any time they do well everyone's going to give me credit which is absolutly wrong!!!! I did not improve there time by four seconds in that final. Perhaps it was the crazy prcatices Hollins is doing to improve them over the last two weeks. Also they had there best race when it counts. In the A final. They are a very fast crew and deserve respect. Not to mention in that A final they were ranked three and got the bronze. In fact that final ended up exactly how everyone was seeded. Perhaps they are faster then the seniors and finaly proved it this weekend. Thanks and good luck to everyone at Nationals.
Cheers

You are probably going to get slammed for what you just said Brad, but I will agree with what you've said: Hanalei does practice hard and had two very good heats to show for it. They did well to earn their spot in lane 5, and used it to the best of their advantage. Those who couldn't earn that spot suffered the consequences. (Maybe next time the remaining 3 teams should try harder to better their chances at the final).

It almost makes sense for Mayfair to aim for the last seed/spot going into the A division final. At least that way they will be guaranteed only ONE wash rider - and a lower seed at that.

Yeah that makes alot of sense stratgize to get lane 1?!

Yeah you only get one wash rider, but you get the potential shallows to deal with instead, makes so much sense I wonder why all the top teams haven't stratgized to get the worst lane!

I think Mayfair is good enough to win out of lane one against another top team. They did so in pickering. Perhaps they are the only team that can strategize that way.

"It almost makes sense for Mayfair to aim for the last seed/spot going into the A division final. At least that way they will be guaranteed only ONE wash rider - and a lower seed at that."

That's the most ridiculous this I ever heard!!

As soon as you start planning to lose races so nobody will ride your wash is the time when you have to start worrying about getting a ride yourself because you won't be the best for very long.

Don't forget, if someone's on your wash it's because you are ahead of them. Isn't that the objective... to be ahead?

Hanalei rode Philly to the finals in Montreal 07 and they rode Mayfair at the island. Nothing new here.

wash riding is part of the game! since ghost lane was in place at the island, washriding effect is limited to an extend. if the teams are as good as mayfair or any of the top A-team, then there shouldn't be any problem winning while pulling a few boats.

Brad's a good guy.

Oh he's a GREAT guy!

Brad for President... the rest of you chumps should go take paddling lessons!

All kidding aside there is completely nothing wrong wtih using what ever rules or set up to your advantage. If there is a clear violation i.e. outside of your lane via ghost lanes then absolutely penalize the wankers... BUT if you are within the parameters of the rules as Hanalei clearly was then it's ligit and the rest of you side liners should take a lesson, work harder so you can be in the A finals!

Trust me you newbies... wash riding does NOT repeat NOT win you races... trainging, training and more training win you races... getting your boat into a advantageous position is part of the game...

sheesh whiners!

Wow, this is the tamest I have ever seen the forum after a big race. There is usually a 200 message flame war by now. I guess I'll go back to watching day time soaps.

MoFos were superb this weekend

I don't know what all the hubbub is about. i think its all part of hte strategy. the suggestion to strategize for lane 1 or 6 is retarded, unless you want to accidentally get bumped to B-final - in which case a team like mayfair could try to post a better time, conceivably in open water.

Racing is all about head-to-head racing, at the end of the day, and each team finished in their respective seed prior to the race.

You have to be ahead to ride wash. It would be interesting and yet very risky for a top team, like Mayfair, to, say, hold back a little and ride another team's wash and then kick it up two gears for the last 150m.

But I think its all strategy, and good strategy for 'inferior' (no offense to hanalei and the other A-finalists) crews in race.

The effects of wash can't be completely avoided, and good steerpersons will always stay to the innermost lane, lest they be ridden by teams to the outside of them, or experience slower shallower water if they are on the outside lane. So ineveitably, whether by intention to ride wash or not, the cox must put its team in a 'washerider' position (and not in a'washridee' position.) If you are competitive and your cox isn't thinking of this, then you need another cox.

"MoFos were superb this weekend"

Code speak for "they came, they saw, they flexed"

I'm still waiting for "A-finalist's" rebuttal to everybody else's acknowledgement that Hanalei was within their lane.

Perhaps he/she has insider info that nobody else (including Brad) had access to.


bitter much?

Without held starts there is no way in hell the times mean anything. Hell, if the starter starts the race while boats are floating that's a huge variable on the times, not to mention half you teams out there, and you know who you are, had people in the back right paddling prior to the start or floated up at the last minute to have a moving start.

Fun races, but not a true test of who is best when you combine times from floating starts and varying times of the day for the same divisions.

Get a clue how this all works and you all have way too much time on your hands.

Someone asked how Manayunk did.

First off, on behalf of Manayunk - thanks for having us. We had a great time in Toronto and had fun racing with our good friends from the Canadian Senior Dragon Boat Club.

Our crews were comprized of all seniors and one youth. The manayunk Mixed Team did have some of the "B" paddlers from CSDC, however, they're all "A+" in my book. I'll paddle with them any time!

Fact is we took a small portion of our team to Toronto to have fun and help prepare for our Nationals next month while the rest of our team competed out west.

The Manayunk Premier Mixed won silver in the International Mixed.

The Manayunk Open won Gold in the Open.

We also won big with the friendships forged with our friends of the CSDC! I was proud to paddle with that great group of people.

Finally, a pleasant and positive post.

Thanks Mike. It was a pleasure to watch Manayunk paddle. Good luck with Nationals.

No Kidding! Mike, you guys looked great and everyone noticed your team! Great attitude and I hope you win your Nationals!

What is a manayunk? And why did you split your team up?

June 23 2008, 8:47 PM

Clearly you did NOT read his message.

They came to enjoy the competition with whatever number of paddlers they have. We don't need to know why they split them up. It's great to have them here.

How many paddlers actually have to be German to qualify as an international entry?

Don't they have women in Hamburg?

videos anyone? a-b-c finals?

The races went off on time (aside from the slight lightning delay late Sunday). And all of the staff were incredibly friendly and efficient. The starter did a great job. And the announcers were entertaining.

Even the ferry was quick and efficient.

Just a well done festival!!! Thanks!

The ferry sucks. The people that works on the ferry sucks.

you want to increase the number of buoys on the course without GWN having to purchase any more? Get rid of the ghost lanes. Basically there are 2x as many buoys as needed, so make the distance b/w buoys 25m and problem solved.

Hard to wash ride a 42 foot dragon boat with only 75 feet to dodge in and out.
or keep the buoys, and GWN can buy some more markers with the $20 they chareged teams for the steerspersons.

With regards to the Outer Harbour site, the club does have a degree of support among the teams and I think the work ethic at the site is excellent. There really is nothing much there, other than good boats, good water and some good crews. That might not be what every program is looking for, but it works for Chaos, Hammerheads, Hydros and Mayfair (Preds and Warriors), among others. There are lots of other crews who come down and work hard, everyone gets along well. In the future, as sport racing develops, there may evolve and Outer Harbour premier mixed club crew, we'll see. It would be a good crew.

When GWN decided to leave the site, it was fortunate that a few people were able to keep paddling alive over the past three years. It's great water and tough to get to Sunnyside in rush hour.

Well done to all OH crews this past few weeks.

Hey buddy,

Don't assume that its one of the 3 remaining teams complaining about this. For all we know it could be anybody on top 2 teams complaining.(Hold on Mayfair and Hydros I'm not dissing you guys, just want to make a pt.) We all don't all have an inferiority complex. I think we all have respect for each other. And who gives a sh**!! I was on one of the remaining 3 and no matter what Hanalei earned the lane. They were fast the whole weekend. I dont care, all 6 teams where damn fast this weekend. So, much respect for them. And being part of the remaining 3, we are just going to have to get that much faster to earn that lane next time.

So you want to be better so that you have an opportunity to cheat???

oh please here we go again. Not to cheat you idiot. People say theortically the inner lanes are faster because its deeper water. I'm not even thinking of the washriding. But whatever hopefully somebody one day will win out of the so-called crappy lanes and shut your ass up.

Your comments seemed to imply that a team can earn the right to ride wash of the top seed in Lane 4. If that's not what you meant, then you could have clarified it without the immature name-calling.

Keep in mind that you wrote that Hanalei earned its lane and that if the rest of us go faster, we can earn that lane, too. Yet we all know that Hanalei didn't take third because they had a faster (deeper) lane. They took third because they rode wash. And that's bush-league, even if a team gets away with it.

As for water depth and weeds, it was quite clear by the results this year that the inside lanes were not a disadvantage. Look at the results. You will find that the teams that ran a heat in Lane 1 on Saturday did not do any differently when they had another heat in the outside lane.

A question for the righteous Anon. 9:20am:

How do you explain the fact that Hanalei was seeded with the 3rd best average time after the 2 heats on Day 1?
They led both races from the first stroke and finished with multiple boat lengths ahead of anyone else.
Was there some invisible boat in front of them and they were riding wash??
They were seeded third and they finished the final in 3rd, a placing that they earned. Your suggestion that their success was due to wash riding just doesn't have any merit and can only be seen as sour grapes.

I guess now I've been just feeding your desire to stir up anger in me. All I was trying to say is that they earned the lane because they were the FASTEST (3rd or 4th, I cant remember)TEAM of the weekend PERIOD. So they earned that and thats it. No hidden message here sherlock. Forget washriding, forget deep water. I was trying to give all the teams in the A final respect, PERIOD.

Lets face it hanalei rocks, they deserve it they work hard and some of them have been around for 10 years so they deserve it. i also heard they practice like crazy, i want on the team

thats all I was trying to say. All 6 teams rock!!! Geez trying to promote some mutual respect and everything gets misconstrued.

anyone have any videos of the races?

"You will find that the teams that ran a heat in Lane 1 on Saturday did not do any differently when they had another heat in the outside lane. "

No you won't find that.

who was the doorknob that posted that message?

<<
How do you explain the fact that Hanalei was seeded with the 3rd best average time after the 2 heats on Day 1?
They led both races from the first stroke and finished with multiple boat lengths ahead of anyone else.
Was there some invisible boat in front of them and they were riding wash??
They were seeded third and they finished the final in 3rd, a placing that they earned. Your suggestion that their success was due to wash riding just doesn't have any merit and can only be seen as sour grapes.>>


Hmmm. By your reasoning, the event shouldn't have had an A final at all. Let's just award third place to whoever is seeded third in the final. (Same for all the other teams, too.)

Wash riding allows a crew to conserve energy. Hanalei had an incredibly strong finish -- after riding wash. Coincidence? Doubtful.

Oh boy. A-finalist strikes again.

I don't know if the water was unusually high or if the weeds were not at prominent, but it is clear that Lane 1 was not the handicap everyone expected this year. Take a look at the 20 Saturday morning premier mixed races. Of the 20 teams that had Lane 1 in one of their heats, only six of those teams posted a faster time when they were not in Lane 1. (Two such teams had about the same time in both heats.) So 12 teams actually posted their faster time in Lane 1.

So you sat down, read the results and came up with that conclusion ?
Lane 1 is always going to have the shallow issues - fullstop.

Don't compare middle of the road teams, and how they perform.
Their ability varies every race, whereas a team like Mayfair or Hanalie, CSDC
will prove to be a better fit for your statistics.

Slight cross tail-wind in the morning, mid-day nothing, headwind in the afternoon.
Now enter all that data in, and factor in good crews next to each other and others
racing on their own.

It took me five miuntes to compare the times. I wanted to see if the presumed bias was really there.

If there was Lane-1 bias, one would expect significantly more than half of the teams in Lane 1 to be hindered -- no matter what their level of expertise. The opposite happened. Only 6 of 20 posted a slower time in Lane 1. You can wonder about the wind conditions you want, but there is nothing that even hints at a Lane-1 bias this year.

As for the elite teams, CSDC was the only elite crew to have a morning heat in Lane 1. They were .7 seconds faster in Lane 1. So nothing can be concluded there.

So I also looked at the afternoon Premier Mixed heats, of which 17 had an entry in Lane 1. Of the 17 teams that had at least one afternoon race in Lane 1, only five teams posted faster times outside of Lane 1. Two were the same, and 10 teams actually posted faster times in Lane 1.

Only two of the better teams, Hammerheads and Big Fish, had an afternoon heat in Lane 1. The result? Hammerheads was faster in Lane 1 and Big Fish was slower in Lane 1.

So far, I see nothing that shows that Lane 1 was a handicap THIS YEAR.

Did you actually read what was posted about the wind conditions.
The wind turned in the aftenoon by 3:00-3:30pm into a Headwind, you cannot use any of that data to support your argument.

Hammerheads went slower in Lane 4 by two seconds than lane 1, where they raced 2 1/2 hours before.
Hanalie went slower by just over a second from Lane 6 to Lane 3
Big Fish dropped 4 seconds going from Lane 4 to Lane 1 after 2 1/2 hours.
Manayunk Dragonboat Racing Team (Philadelphia) dropped 4 seconds going from Lane 3 to Lane 4
St Joseph's Health Centre dropped 3 seconds going from Lane 3 to Lane 4

For the math to work in your favour, St. Joe's, Hammerheads and Philly should all have been
quicker in the outside favoured lanes. They didn't but all managed to sneak into the "B" Final
with times from their last race.

<<Did you actually read what was posted about the wind conditions.
The wind turned in the aftenoon by 3:00-3:30pm into a Headwind, you cannot use any of that data to support your argument.>>

Of course I knew about the wind conditions. You're right, the wind became progressively stronger and up-the-course (headwind) as the day unfolded. Yet of the eight teams who were in Lane 1 in the last eight heats on Saturday, only four managed to post a faster time outside of Lane 1 earlier in the afternoon.

I'm just looking for evidence of Lane 1's bias this year, and I've found none.

We were there. It was a swamp. Times are irrelevant.

who ever crosses the finish line first wins. if you don't think the lanes are fair don't come back next year. It's that simple. if your upset with your result and don't think that the island is fair...you only have yourself to blame for going. i knew this was going to happen. it always does after every race.

Ya, screw the island.

See you all in Waterloo!

A big "thanks" to the poster who kept an ongoing update of the results.

I tried doing this in Calgary last year but for some reason was unable to post on this forum (I can in other online forums). If you're using a blackberry to do it, would you mind emailing me?

Robby_Chang<at>gmail.com

Oops wrong email

robbychang<at>gmail.com

If all the whining about unfair lanes, wash riding etc. is a real factor then why do the best teams always seem to win.

How many times have to heard. "Man if only we didn't have lane 1 we would've won." or "if they didn't wash ride we would have beaten them".

How come you never hear "Wow, because we got lane 5 we went from D division to A division! and beat Mayfair."

The best crews will always win. Hence the name.

You haven't been to Waterloo.
2007: New College beats Hydrophobic out of lane 7
2006: Some university team beats Piranhas out of lane 7

Either that or I understand the use of sarcasm...

correction, New College was in lane 7,8,9 and 10.

"Some university team" was Team Ruckus. Show some respect and acknowledge them by name when you have been racing against them for 9+ years and only narrowly beat them in your first encounter 9 years ago.

I thought this was the Toronto Island Results topic. Perhaps I have wandered into the Waterloo results thread by accident. Or maybe that topic got so large it just swallowed the Toronto thread.

Dragon Boat Ranking Forum - All College Bickering, ALL THE TIME!

there's only one university team that matters.

oh no here we go

I love how Jason gets indignant at the drop of a hat. No one believes in his own right to speak out more than him.

Jason, what team are you referring to? I don't get it?

Jason,

The body shop called. Your vehicle's been fixed. Pick it up anytime.

haha. awesome. Thanks for that. Saves me from posting the standard weanie comment.

I do this to piss the forum owners off. Perhaps you could make a poster of me and show all your friends.

Team Pride!

All you forum dwellers on here whining about wash riding... well you know nothin about RIDING!
Mark my words... Team Pride will be washing riding all of you next year at the Toronto Island... big boy!

Is that Joel?

I just vomitted into my waste basket