Ok, trying for a sensible debate:

The primary difference between the 2 strokes is FC is loaded at the catch and the TO crews press through a longer stroke. Relatively speaking, the TO stroke is exaggerated at the back.

Theory 1) The more complete TO stroke is only effective when you have the energy to fully supply all the muscle needed to do it. This can't be done on a 500m, but could be done on a 200m.

Theory 2) By increasing the rate for the 200m, the TO stroke is shortened. In essence, they are eliminating the back part of the stroke that is not necessarily effective.

Theory 3) FC is just aerobically fitter.

My personal feeling is theory 2.

Flame away.

Back part of the stroke is way more effective than the front part and all you have to do is look at the last 2 premier womens team from Canada to understand why they were world champs in ALL 3 distances.

That back 1/2 of the stroke is the hardest to learn which is why not everyone does it or has mastered it.

Totally, absolutely, completely disagree.

Acceleration through the whole stroke, and connection on the exit are key, but pulling too far back does not aid the stroke.

There is absolutely no way a paddler is pulling more water at the end of the stroke then immediately after the catch.

Mayfair had poorer than usual starts on Day 1 (500) but figured their starts out by Day 2 (200). FCRCC has a younger crew and can handle a pace over 500 metres that would cause Mayfair to spin.

I would have expected FCRCC to do better in the 2,000, given their outrigger focus, but given the amount of wash out there, it is hard to draw any conclusions about how fast a crew could race 2,000 metres under calm conditions.

pardon a noob question but when you say "front part of the stroke" .. when do you pull out as opposed to the full stroke all the way to the back?

The front part of the stroke is the front part of the stroke.

false creek loading point and exist point is extremely clean. looking from the shore, they have a clean catch and shorter pull when compare to Rip, Hydro, Mayfair, etc.. most of the TO teams. another thing i notice is the recovery, False creek recovery is high up in the air, while alot of TO team goes for side recovery and have shorter air time...what do u guys think?

I think every crew is different. Not every crew can do the same stroke. There's other factors, such as weight & height of your paddlers, overall fitness, etc.

Find out what makes your boat move, and perfect it.

FCRCC a younger crew? Look again my friend. Most are well in their late 30's to mid 40's.

That is what I meant... if most are in their 30's or early 40's, then they are a younger crew than Mayfair. How many are over 50?

Remember they said that False Creek was a younger crew, not a young crew!!!

I'm sure age may have something to do with it, but without going into that debate, let's keep focused on the topic of which stroke is better? Is there such a thing?
How does the fc stroke compare internationally with successful teams abroad? How about the us national team that kicked ass in sydney?

I'm sure age may have something to do with it, but without going into that debate, let's keep focused on the topic of which stroke is better? Is there such a thing?
How does the fc stroke compare internationally with successful teams abroad? How about the us national team that kicked ass in sydney?

If those american guys, who were monsters, would paddle normally they'd be even faster.

FCRCC unfortunately did not send their best team to Sydney. If the same team we saw at the Canadian Championships was there I have no doubt they would have kicked some American ass.

As for the stroke. False Creek is much crisper and cleaner on the catch and exit. Their recovery is much higher. Their stroke is shorter, but their paddles accelerate through the water the entire stroke.

Matfair's stroke is a little more messy and the recovery is not as high. Their exit is more like an outrigger and they bring their paddles back much further than False Creek. In my personal opinion they leave their paddles in too long when they aren't pulling water.

False Creek's boat also has much more glide.

That's just I think, you guys?

I don't know how many times this has been said now but The False Creek team you saw for the most part was the same core of paddlers .Sometimes its best not to say anything if you lack the proper knowledge

'FCRCC unfortunately did not send their best team to Sydney. If the same team we saw at the Canadian Championships was there I have no doubt they would have kicked some American ass.'

If the same American mixed team raced the Nationals they would have won the 500m by open water. There time in Sydney was 1:52 something. The FCRCC time was 1:56 something at Nationals.

FCRCC's time in the Final in Sydney was 1:53 something coming in second place. I don't think it was an ass kicking.

The open team from FCRCC didn't make the finals in Sydney and didn't come to Nationals...they got there ass kicked.

If the open team from FCRCC had come to TO they would have won and with open water .Did you see the results in the open division in Vancouver this year ??? They went up against some very stacked mens teams from the US and Canada that were determined to beat them using some of the best outrigger guys on the west coast and FCRCC won with open water .

The only reason the US won was they paid their top paddling athletes basically to go and flew them there for free. Why else would have Danny Ching and the boys gone there ? Danny's not about to pay his own way there to race in some stupid dragonboat race .If Canada were to come up with the same funding the US did then you would have seen Adam and the boys show up probably and then it would have been a serious battle but until Dragonboat Canada offers up money to fly the best of the best from this country to these events then it will never happen .I also think that in the future w/ the downturn in the US economy we probably won't see as strong a US team as was in OZ as the funding won't be there .

I suggest you do your research next time before you stick your foot in your mouth .

Where's dragon boat canada going to get the money?

where are the US teams getting this "so-called" money. I mean, is it that lucrative to come up to canada and beat canadian teams. Is there that much of a financial windfall for the americans. I wouldn't think so. There isn't even any money for NHL hockey in the US so why would there be for dragonboat.

I am laughing at "Adam and the boys" comment. Come on you now he would not go. He has way too much on his plate and it will not happen until he is less focused on his K1.

The "boys" would go for sure.

"If the same American mixed team raced the Nationals they would have won the 500m by open water. There time in Sydney was 1:52 something. The FCRCC time was 1:56 something at Nationals"

Actually the real FCRCC A crew turned a 1.53 in the NTT's just a hair faster than they did in OZ and the course was better in OZ .I think FCRCC would easily give that US mixed team a close race anytime

Here is the ass kicking that you say the USA gave FCRCC at the Worlds in oz . Lane 2 - USA ,lane 5 - FCRCC and this is the 500 meter final . Sure doesn't look like open water to me ,what do you think ? Think before you write

[img][/img]

>Re: why mayfair and rip can sprint, but FC takes the 500

Correct me if I'm wrong, the purpose of this debate was why did FC win the 500, but not win the 200?

FC had a steering error and was penalized (shoulda been dq'd) down to B final. They never had the opportunity to race the A final.

Mayfair did post a slightly faster time than FC in the 200, but not in the same heats. You can't use that as a prediction that Mayfair would automatically win the 200 based on that.

One thing you can do is look at the gap FC beat the beasts by in the semis (when they were going straight), and then compare that to the gap Mayfair beat the beasts by.

Another thing to take into consideration is the gap in which FC beat Mayfair in the NTT 200m, and that Mayfair was supposed to be the stronger mix than the National's crew.


As for looking at the stroke differences, please remember there is more than one way to skin a cat. Otherwise, at the Worlds you'd see all the medalling teams using the same stroke. Not so.

Unless they race head to head the speculation means diddly squat.

Coulda shoulda woulda.

Mayfair would have lost ,you are probably on the Mayfair team . FCRCC beat you ever single time out of the gate so what makes you think you had a chance .FCRCC is better at the 200 then the 500 and you guys couldn't even beat the FCRCC team that was made up with 5 spares to fill in for those that left .Had you raced the Top FCRCC crew ( the NTT crew) you would have really taken an ass kicking sp keep dreaming

OMFG grow a brain you fool. Look at the results as they speak for themselves.

I believe the overall winner was (drum roll please) MAYFAIR. And second place was (drum roll please) BBBBEASTS.

No one else matters.

:D

...that they didn't have 5 part-time ringers that couldn't stay for the whole weekend.

Ahhhhhh, SNAP!

[img][/img]

Mayfair/Beast owned by FCRCC

[img][/img]

Mayfair/Beast owned AGAIN by FCRCC

[img][/img]

What can I say .Looks like everyone owned by FCRCC


Sorry people the results board speaks for itself . FCRCC owns Canada !!

My popcorn was awesome !

PS - since when was the 200 every a championship race ?? ,that in itself is funny .500 is where the big boys play !!

"that they didn't have 5 part-time ringers that couldn't stay for the whole weekend"


Sorry ,the false creek crew only had 1 crew memner that was not a full time FCRCC paddler .

Then why do you people keep using the excuse of "5 part timers" and not the strongest crew that FRCC could put together as an excuse for not winning the whole thing.

And to the idiot who said something about the 200 not counting, go tell that to the IDBF and have them remove it from their World Championships.

As the above poster stated, did Mayfair not take the overall championship?

Mayfair beat you...ha ha ha ha ha ha! FCCRCRCC lost!!!! too bad, so sad. Nice excuses though!!!

Face it False Creek, you lost.

No one cares at the end of the day about who you should have had in your boat and who you didn't, they care who WON.

At least both Mayfair and Beasts have coaches who understand competition. A certain coach from Vancouver was rude to everyone that weekend and wouldn’t stop complaining.

I love it , TO gets beat and then they pretend it didn't happen . How typical ,you losers . Anytime you want to come out west and have another shot I'm sure False Creek would be more than glad to hand you your sorry asses again .They aren't going to pay to come race you again because they already know they would beat you without a doubt and it would be wasting money so keep pretending .Thats twice now they have come to the park and slaughtered you ,how many times do they have to keep coming ?

As for the coach of FCRCC , you have her pegged wrong .Their coach is 1 of the best but unless you deserve some special attn get over it

You have got to be kidding me. The above poster needs a paddle shoved up their ass for unsportsmanlike behaviour.

Not sure what races you were at but it is clear their was no slaughter.Look at the results and they tell a clear story. Twist and spin it as much as you like but I believe it was 1,2,3 Mayfair, Beasts and then whatever that other team is called.Sorry just trying to rub salt in.

On the international scene, meaning the ones that count, WORLD Championships, FRCC has not been the top crew out of Canada for a long time.That is a fact.

Kudos to all teams and their zealous fans.

"FRCC has not been the top crew out of Canada for a long time.That is a fact."

Brush up on your history my friend. Gold & silver in the last worlds is nothing to be sad about .

not to mention how they faired in the Club Crews in 2006.

What gold? Was it an official distance, or an exhibition race?

DB paddlers are so mature.

Had to check the official results to be sure. The Nations Cup does not recognize the 2000m races for ANY of the racing classes. So the FCRCC group captured exactly 1 medal in the official scoring results, Silver in the Prem. Mixed 500m, which was actually a pretty impressive result. (they came 4th in the 200's, so maybe there IS something to this idea that they can't sprint)

Their Premiere Open team managed only one Major final, finishing 5th in the 1000m. In the 200m and 500m distances they were 7th.

The Eastern Canada based Premiere Women's team won 3 Gold medals, almost single handedly moving Canada to a close 3rd in the overall standings.

Soooo....

FCRCC Mixed good, Open bad.

But Gold medals = 0

"If those american guys, who were monsters, would paddle normally they'd be even faster."

This is pretty funny and pretty far from the truth. The US only had 4-5 guys over 6 feet tall. From what I could see Canada (FCRCC) looked a bit bigger than the US boat. Aussies probably had the biggest squad. Slovaks were huge but not real tall. Asian squads show size isn't everything.

re-opening a old wound

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w-VR9Ete_U


ouch !

Wow ,someone obviously didn't want all to see the FCRCC vs Mayfair NTT race so they made it a private video .Thats hilarious !!