Someone in another thread mentioned potential lane bias in line 1 for Montreal so I thought I would check it out before going ahead with the rankings, just like I did for Pickering.

I ran the lane bias calculator, which looks at each lane and compares how each team did in that lane compared to their average. The punchline, effectively no lane bias came up. In fact, lanes 4-6 came out as being about 0.2 to 0.3 seconds faster than the inside lanes (for a 2:30 team).

Given that the impacts are so small I will not be making any adjustments.

For those who are curious, here is the data the calculator produces. It's kind of neat to see how teams tend to perform on a good race vs. bad when compared to their average (which is represented by a 1). It's rare to see anything more than a 2% (4-5 second) drop in performance.

Team Count Avg. Time 1 2 3 4 5 6
3R Dragon - Cobras 3 02:10.5 0.000 0.000 1.002 0.000 0.995 0.000
3R Dragon - RobinBoat 3 02:14.8 0.000 0.000 1.005 0.991 0.000 1.005
Adrenaline MDBSC 3 02:11.4 0.000 0.000 1.017 0.000 0.000 0.992
Adrenergique 3 02:19.2 0.000 0.000 1.000 0.993 0.000 1.007
Aido Hwedo 3 02:14.5 0.000 1.003 1.009 0.988 0.000 0.000
Aonic 3 02:25.1 0.000 0.999 1.014 0.987 0.000 0.000
Arctic Power 3 02:13.5 0.999 0.000 0.000 1.002 0.000 0.000
Banana Ship 3 02:18.5 1.002 0.000 0.000 0.000 1.011 0.988
Blind Ambition 3 02:22.9 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 1.000 0.000
BMO First Dragons 3 02:11.5 1.002 0.000 0.000 1.003 0.000 0.995
BMO Rising Dragons 3 02:12.8 0.000 1.013 0.000 0.993 0.000 0.000
Bombardier Venus Mars Express 3 02:13.2 1.001 0.000 1.000 0.000 0.000 0.999
Bonjour Quebec 3 02:17.9 1.009 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.983 0.000
Booz Allen BetaFish 3 02:17.8 1.005 0.000 0.000 0.998 0.000 0.000
Canodiens! 3 02:13.8 0.000 0.998 1.005 0.000 0.998 0.000
Canoe.ca 3 02:15.5 0.000 0.000 0.987 0.000 1.006 0.000
Chargers 3 02:13.8 1.013 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.994 0.000
Ciraig 3 02:18.2 0.000 0.000 0.000 1.001 1.000 0.000
CN Aquatrain 3 02:14.1 0.000 0.000 1.000 0.000 0.000 0.999
DCH DVP 3 02:13.5 1.017 0.988 0.000 0.995 0.000 0.000
DCH Exp 3 02:07.8 0.000 0.000 0.998 1.005 0.000 0.997
DCH Uni 3 02:10.9 1.001 0.000 0.000 0.997 0.000 0.000
Descendants of the Dragon 3 02:18.4 0.000 0.989 0.000 1.003 1.009 0.000
Destroyers 3 02:15.8 1.006 0.000 0.000 1.004 0.990 0.000
Devils 3 02:16.5 0.000 1.002 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.999
Drachen Furie 2 02:12.7 0.000 0.000 0.996 0.000 1.004 0.000
Dragon Fly 3 02:18.2 0.000 1.000 1.008 0.000 0.993 0.000
Dragonfly 2 02:20.6 0.000 1.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
Dragons Hydro-Qu¨¦bec 3 02:11.4 0.000 0.000 1.010 0.996 0.994 0.000
Dynam'eau d'Hydro-Qu¨¦bec 3 02:16.1 1.007 0.000 0.996 0.000 0.000 0.000
FCCP-YCPA 3 02:28.5 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.995 0.963 1.045
G2 Dragons d'Hydro©\Qu¨¦bec 3 02:15.6 1.017 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.996 0.988
Gingerbread Crew 3 02:15.5 0.000 1.003 0.000 0.988 0.000 1.009
Giv'er the BUSINESS 3 02:15.4 1.003 0.999 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
Gung Ho 3 02:08.2 0.000 1.015 0.986 1.000 0.000 0.000
Half Row 3 02:10.2 0.000 1.000 1.008 0.000 0.993 0.000
Hanalei 3 02:09.1 0.000 1.001 0.000 0.999 1.000 0.000
Hey Man, tu me connais! 3 02:18.4 1.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
Hydroglisseur d'Hydro©\Qu¨¦bec 3 02:20.5 0.975 0.000 1.024 0.000 0.000 1.002
Hydrophiles Hydro-Qu¨¦bec 3 02:22.2 1.001 1.007 0.992 0.000 0.000 0.000
Indigo Ridgeback 3 02:24.0 0.000 0.000 1.007 0.000 1.022 0.973
Iron Dragons 3 02:11.5 1.017 0.000 0.995 0.000 0.989 0.000
Isshin 3 02:17.2 0.000 0.000 1.004 0.000 0.992 0.000
Ithaca Gorges Dragons 3 02:18.1 0.999 0.000 0.000 0.000 1.015 0.986
Jade Dragons 3 02:12.9 1.005 0.000 0.998 0.000 0.997 0.000
Jade Evolution 3 02:19.4 1.003 0.000 1.009 0.988 0.000 0.000
Jetstart 3 02:07.5 1.010 0.000 0.000 1.002 0.988 0.000
Komodo Dragons 3 02:11.2 1.007 1.009 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.985
La Croisi¨¨re s`Amuse 3 02:23.6 0.995 1.009 0.000 0.000 0.996 0.000
La Tribu 3 02:18.8 0.000 0.000 1.027 0.000 0.000 0.987
Lavery de Billy Avocats 3 02:29.5 0.989 1.009 0.000 1.002 0.000 0.000
Le Bat Boat 3 02:12.8 0.991 1.005 0.000 1.004 0.000 0.000
Le Torrent de Sherbrooke 3 02:13.9 0.000 0.990 0.000 0.000 1.012 0.998
Les Ars¨¨nes 3 02:12.5 1.002 0.000 0.995 0.000 0.000 0.000
Les Barbares de Qu¨¦bec 3 02:12.7 0.000 1.005 1.005 0.000 0.000 0.990
Les Fous de Bassin 3 02:19.1 0.993 0.985 0.000 0.000 1.023 0.000
Les Narcos 3 02:17.8 1.012 0.997 0.000 0.000 0.991 0.000
Les Pics Bois 3 02:15.1 0.000 1.000 1.000 0.000 1.000 0.000
Les PRATT¨¦ens 3 02:16.4 1.009 0.000 0.000 1.003 0.989 0.000
Les Zanguilles ¨¦lectriques d'Hydro©\Qu¨¦bec 3 02:15.2 0.000 1.000 0.000 1.000 0.999 0.000
Living Root Dragon Boat 3 02:18.1 1.008 0.000 1.000 0.000 0.000 0.993
LST 1 3 02:15.4 0.000 0.994 0.000 0.000 1.010 0.996
LST 2 3 02:17.6 0.000 1.006 0.000 0.989 0.000 0.000
LST 3 3 02:20.1 1.014 0.986 0.000 0.000 1.000 0.000
LST 4 3 02:18.1 0.000 0.000 1.000 1.000 0.000 0.000
Mad Paddlers 2 02:22.6 1.003 0.000 0.000 0.997 0.000 0.000
Magic Dragons 3 02:12.5 0.000 1.003 1.001 0.995 0.000 0.000
Maki Catta 2 02:17.0 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.993 0.000 1.007
Metro Athletic Dragons (MAD) 3 02:13.1 0.000 1.004 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.993
Miracle Dragons 3 02:18.1 1.000 1.007 0.000 0.000 0.993 0.000
Mixed Nuts 3 02:22.0 0.000 1.000 0.000 1.000 1.000 0.000
Morneau Sobeco Fireball 3 02:16.2 0.000 1.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
Mounties 3 02:23.2 0.000 1.004 0.000 0.993 0.000 0.000
Natural Killers 3 02:21.2 1.008 0.000 0.000 0.996 0.000 0.000
No Gard 3 02:19.1 0.993 1.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 1.007
NY Wall Street Dragons - Black 3 02:15.6 1.003 0.000 0.000 0.995 1.002 0.000
NY Wall Street Dragons - Red 3 02:14.1 0.000 1.001 0.993 1.006 0.000 0.000
Oh My God, Ponies! 3 02:17.5 0.000 0.000 0.999 1.002 0.000 0.000
OPS Civil Dragons 3 02:17.8 1.005 0.000 0.997 0.999 0.000 0.000
Pacemakers A+ 3 02:14.4 0.000 1.003 1.002 0.000 0.000 0.995
Pacemakers B+ 3 02:18.8 0.000 0.998 0.990 1.012 0.000 0.000
Paddlers Anonymous - Da Boat 3 02:18.1 0.000 0.000 0.000 1.000 0.000 1.000
Paddlers Anonymous Club Crew 3 02:15.2 1.007 1.001 0.000 0.000 0.992 0.000
Phoenix ETS 3 02:13.2 0.000 0.000 0.000 1.004 0.993 0.000
Phoenix Warriors 3 02:13.2 0.000 0.000 1.000 0.999 0.000 1.001
Power Wave Crushers 3 02:22.8 0.000 0.000 0.998 0.000 0.000 1.001
Puff 3 02:18.9 1.005 1.005 0.000 0.991 0.000 0.000
Quicksilver 3 02:10.2 1.007 0.993 1.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
Rage Against the River 3 02:14.5 0.000 1.002 0.000 1.002 0.996 0.000
RBC Comets 3 02:11.4 1.003 1.009 0.988 0.000 0.000 0.000
RBC Royal Dragons 3 02:14.2 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 1.001 1.000
Rehab Renegades 3 02:15.1 0.000 0.000 1.000 1.001 0.000 0.999
Riptide DBC 3 02:14.1 0.986 1.008 1.007 0.000 0.000 0.000
Rogers Dragons Sans©\Fil 3 02:20.4 0.000 0.996 0.996 0.000 0.000 1.009
Ruban en Route 3 02:12.4 0.000 1.010 1.002 0.000 0.000 0.988
Rye-D-Boat 3 02:15.5 1.002 0.000 1.009 0.000 0.000 0.989
Saoul Sex Full 3 02:17.1 0.000 0.000 1.003 0.000 0.993 0.000
Shape Shifters 3 02:13.5 0.000 1.009 0.996 0.995 0.000 0.000
Shockwave Montreal 3 02:19.0 0.993 0.000 0.000 0.000 1.007 1.000
SimDragons 3 02:18.5 0.000 1.018 0.000 0.000 1.002 0.981
Sinai Lightning 3 02:18.8 1.013 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.994
Sonic Dragons 3 02:19.1 1.007 0.000 0.993 0.000 1.000 0.000
Speed'Eau 3 02:19.9 0.000 0.000 0.000 1.005 0.000 0.990
State Street NAVigators 3 02:34.1 0.969 0.000 0.987 0.000 0.000 1.048
Storm 3 02:15.8 0.000 0.000 0.991 0.000 1.004 0.000
Team Liaison 3 02:23.1 0.000 0.000 0.000 1.000 1.000 0.000
Team Wookies 3 02:13.5 0.000 0.000 0.000 1.006 0.000 0.988
The Two-Hit Hypothesis 3 02:19.2 0.000 1.000 1.007 0.000 0.000 0.993
Typhon 3 02:16.5 0.000 1.010 0.996 0.000 0.000 0.995
U of T New College New Dragons 3 02:08.8 0.997 0.000 1.006 0.997 0.000 0.000
U of T Scarlem Dragon Boat 3 02:14.5 0.000 0.000 1.002 0.995 0.000 1.004
United East Athletic Association 3 02:20.0 1.007 0.000 0.000 1.007 0.986 0.000
University College Water Dragons 3 02:10.8 0.000 0.000 0.000 1.001 0.000 0.997
Veolia John Meunier 3 02:19.4 0.989 1.002 1.010 0.000 0.000 0.000
Verdun Express 3 02:11.8 1.013 0.998 0.000 0.000 0.989 0.000
Verdun Impact 2 02:19.2 0.993 0.000 1.007 0.000 0.000 0.000
ViCrew 3 02:12.1 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 1.000 0.000
Wasabi Dragons 3 02:21.2 0.000 0.000 0.000 1.007 0.997 0.000
Water Vipers 3 02:14.9 0.000 1.005 0.000 0.998 0.000 0.000
Xtreme NY 3 02:13.5 1.009 1.003 0.000 0.000 0.989 0.000
AVERAGE 1.002 1.002 1.001 0.999 0.998 0.998

Thanks PD!!!!!

I don't think there is lane bias in Montreal. What about lane bias at the recent Nationals???

Not sure if you can quantify the lane bias in that way since not every team raced in every single lane under the same conditions with the same teams next to them. However, those that attend the festival and have paddled in all the lanes or have been there to see a significant number of races can tell you that Lane 1 does seem to always have more of a kick near the last 100 meters or so of the race course. Boats racing in Lane 6, on the contrary, seem to start dragging a bit around the whiteboard area.

There is a lane bias for lane 1. There is a reason why that lane is faster and that for canoe and speed kayakers. But what are you gonna do about it, nothing. Just have fun out there.

What would the results be if you only performed the analysis for lane per day only? I quickly counted 31 lane 1 victories on Sunday.

Lane 1 normally is reserved for the 5th ranked crew (I think). You would think that crews in the middle lanes would have a higher victory percentage.

I didn't get Lane 1 or Lane 6 all weekend. Did race in 2, 3, 4 & 5 though.

The claim is not that lane bias has not occurred for an individual race, but rather that on average it has not occurred. So if for example a wind created a bias on Saturday morning, the wind must have shifted to reverse this bias such that on average there wasn't one. This seems an unlikely case but is nonetheless possible.

You do not need each team to race in each lane to assess lane bias since we have a big sample size of teams that raced in a given lane. If on average teams in lane 6 have gone 2% faster when compared to the average of lanes 1-6, then I would argue lane 6 is 2% faster than the average. So, from the data I posted, each row doesn't mean that much in itself, but at the bottom, where the average of all teams shows up, it does. The more teams, the more percise the measurement of lane bias - and Montreal had a bunch!

"However, those that attend the festival and have paddled in all the lanes or have been there to see a significant number of races can tell you that Lane 1 does seem to always have more of a kick near the last 100 meters or so of the race course. Boats racing in Lane 6, on the contrary, seem to start dragging a bit around the whiteboard area."

If this is the case, then the data suggests that Lane 1 is slower early in the race which offsets any benefit in the last 100m - because on average teams aren't going any faster in this lane! Keep in mind that you could be experiencing the parallax effect - since all spectators are on one side, and close to the course, boats that have the inside lane will always have the illusion of moving faster than those that are further away. With most people near the finish, it will always look like lane 1 pours it on right in the last 100m, even if they are not. If you walk around to the other side it will look like the outside lane is moving fast towards the finish.

I would look at the nationals but I think it would be more interesting to update the rankings.

PD

Just eyeballing the results - it does actually look like the lane 1 bias was really previlent on Day 2 and the lane 6 bias previlent on Day 1. Ironically, all in all it seems to have averaged out - though the finals are all teams will really care about.

I think if I subdivided the data Day by Day we might see something like paddlers experienced. However, given how time consuming this would be, for now I'll just try to enter in the results.

Power, you are dreaming if you do not think there is a lane bias on the inside in Montreal.

Count the no. of times a team won from Lane 6 and compare that to the no. of times a team won from Lane 1 and you will get a clear answer.

The team that qualified with the fastest time was seeded in Lane 3. The second fastest time in Lane 1. JetStart finished second overall on Day 1 and won the 500m final from Lane 1 on Sunday. Tripod was second and won both the men's division from lane 1, as well as the "best of fest" 100m race.

As for Lane 6, you'd go faster pulling yourself through cement. You definitely hit a brick wall coming into the last 200m. There were a lot of Lane 6 teams looking good and leading at the half way mark, only to lose in the last hundred metres or so.

I am not doubting your calculations but the fact that fastest team gets placed in lane 3 first, 2nd fastest in lane etc etc will skew your results. If lane 1 is a faster lane, having slower teams there pulling faster times than they normally would will make it seem as in there isn't much difference between lanes 1 and 3 by looking at straight numbers. There is also the wide range of strength of teams at the festival and the fact that not all of them were evenly distributed across their lanes throughout their time trials. Of course there was current as well, with a pretty strong tailwind throughout most of Saturday. With so many variables, it is hard to use the straight up averages you are using.

If you look all the A division finals you will see that Lane 1 clearly has an advantage, with teams that have been "slower" throughout most of the festival pull out victories on "faster" teams. Or if a "faster" team somehow ends up in Lane 1, they end up obliterating all the competition like how DCH did in the Mens 250m final.

All I am saying is that you have to be actually racing on the water to feel the difference.

"Lane 1 normally is reserved for the 5th ranked crew (I think). You would think that crews in the middle lanes would have a higher victory percentage"

I thought so too, but I don't think they actually followed that this year. I believe it went lanes 3,1,4,2,5,6 for the 500M finals. Then you got reseeded for the 250M final.

with the way DCH was sprinting, they probably would have won the 250m in lane 6 as well. Their faster A crews won all the 250m finals in different lanes.

Winning the 250m in lane 6 is stretching it a bit for 'A' finals.

PD,

Don't worry, I understand what you are trying to get at. However, would it make a difference by taking a more "reliable" sample? That is, taking a cut of the top teams who tend to post more consistent times.

I'd like to see if there was a lane bias at Nationals. Would kinda suck if there was, considering how much money went into that course.

"Power, you are dreaming if you do not think there is a lane bias on the inside in Montreal.

Count the no. of times a team won from Lane 6 and compare that to the no. of times a team won from Lane 1 and you will get a clear answer."

Ok, from Saturday, teams that won from lanes 1-2 for mixed 500m count 11, and teams that won from lanes 5-6 count 10. Keep in mind the seedings were random, and with a sample size of ten it is hard to tell anything from the placements. It is more a function of what lane the fastest team got put in. Then go to day 2, for mixed 500m I get 11 wins from lane 1 or 2 and I get 2 wins from lane 5-6, and this is after seeding which should have 3-4 winning a good chunk of the races.

Therefore, what the data suggests is that lane 1-2 were slower on day 1, however given the random seeding, its hard to see this through placements.

"I am not doubting your calculations but the fact that fastest team gets placed in lane 3 first, 2nd fastest in lane etc etc will skew your results. If lane 1 is a faster lane, having slower teams there pulling faster times than they normally would will make it seem as in there isn't much difference between lanes 1 and 3 by looking at straight numbers."

Keep in mind that teams are compared against their own average so this is not true.


"There is also the wide range of strength of teams at the festival and the fact that not all of them were evenly distributed across their lanes throughout their time trials. Of course there was current as well, with a pretty strong tailwind throughout most of Saturday. With so many variables, it is hard to use the straight up averages you are using."

I would wager the tail wind made the outside lanes more desirable on Saturday. Keep in mind I'm not claiming that there wasn't lane bias for an individual race, but on average it washed out. This just means that a team that was in lane 1 on Saturday and then lane 6 on Sunday got the shaft, instead of those who where consistently in lane 6 or lane 1.

The bottom line is I can't adjust because there wasn't consistent bias in a lane, it changed significantly over the course of the festival.

it is somewhat difficult to make the adjustment.
My crew had lane 1 on Sunday in the 500m and won. Then went to lane 3 for the 250m final. We won that as well and beat the same crews almost by the same number of seats as in the 500m.

PD - I trust your approach will be fair enough across the board to reflect the competitive level of the crews and the festival.

I know it's hard to make adjustments for lane bias but to say that there isn't any (without taking weather into consideration) would not be correct. Even taking samples of just a team's average times will not work given the crazy weather, roster changes, level of competition. Taking average times from each team by itself is a pretty small sample set too...

You can argue that my own view of the race is incorrect given the condition changes that could have occurred that might make lane 1 seem coincidentally faster, but I've been at Montreal for the last 9 years and it definitely does feel like 5 and 6 (especially 6) is at a disadvantage. Any other experienced crew that has been racing there a lot will tell you the same thing. I'm not making excuses or reasons for anything but if you race there you'll know that there is a difference.

where is the link to the rankings?

"I know it's hard to make adjustments for lane bias but to say that there isn't any (without taking weather into consideration) would not be correct."

I agree and for that reason have not aruged this. I only try to adjust for lane bias is if is consistent for one lane. This is typical for a festival where one lane is really shallow, or the wind was in a consistent direction. But not so for a festival where conditions have changed more readily.

"Even taking samples of just a team's average times will not work given the crazy weather, roster changes, level of competition. Taking average times from each team by itself is a pretty small sample set too..."

Same size is large, most teams paddled in three different lanes. So with half the teams we get data on all lanes. The lane bias indicator has worked very well in the past for festivals with a consistent bias. For this year in Montreal it won't work.

"You can argue that my own view of the race is incorrect given the condition changes that could have occurred that might make lane 1 seem coincidentally faster, but I've been at Montreal for the last 9 years and it definitely does feel like 5 and 6 (especially 6) is at a disadvantage. Any other experienced crew that has been racing there a lot will tell you the same thing. I'm not making excuses or reasons for anything but if you race there you'll know that there is a difference."

May be true, but this year there must have been a tailwind on Saturday that made the outside lanes more desirable - otherwise I'd see the bias in my data.

So clearly more victories out of lane 1 than 6 thanks to bizarro lane seeding for finals: fastest teams were in lane 3, 2nd fastest in 1, 3rd fastest in 4, 4th fastest in 2 and the 6th fastest in 6.

So that's 3,1,4,2,5,6... um... huh?

Like many things at MIDBF this makes no sense. It's like they're half recognizing bias, but afraid to go all the way. Maybe its less embarrassing to have 2nd seeds winning finals than 5th seeds?

Are you serious! Thats about the worst thing you can do.

You'd expect the best and second best crews to be really close so even a little lane bias would lead to an upset from lane 1. At least if you are seeding the 5th place team there they only upset the 4th place team and likely would not win the heat.

the reason lane 1 was doing lots of wnning was due to the wind...ie much less in lane 1. No sure of the seading to fianls, but not usually just on time but also what semi you were in...not sure if it applies in this case as there were no true semi's

I think you're confused. How could seeding be based on anything but time when all you have is two timed heats leading to a final?

#2 seeds were put in lane 1 for the finals, so conditions alone were not responsible the number of lane 1 winners...

Those of us that have raced at the basin for years all realize, recognize and put up with the lane bias. It exists, its real and yes its frustrating ... but we all know this going in that lane positioning will have an effect for dragonboating. Now, if only Sunny and the gang at MIDBRF realized it too this gong show could be avoided in the future. Either seed as follows 1st - lane 1, 2nd - lane 2 down to 6th lane 6 or hows this for a novel idea allow the first seed to pick the lane they want and then down through the 6th seed that receives that last empty lane. This way no crew can complain of lane bias, you earn the lane you get based on your seeding from the heats. Either way lane bias/seeding is resolved. Case closed.

why isn't montreal Lane 3 (1 seed), Lane 2 (2 seed), Lane 4 (3 seed), Lane 1 (4 seed), Lane 5 (5 seed) and Lane 6 (6th seed). Afraid a 4 seed may pull an upset in the finals?

I've been an advocate of letting teams pick their lane according to seeding as well. On some courses it's the best solution. It leaves nothing to complain about if it doesn't work out.

And I can guarn-f#cking-tee that the 1st seed would pick Lane 1, the second seed Lane 2, the third seed Lane 3, etc. Of course, it only makes sense that teams would want to line up next to the fastest team they could, so once the 1st seed picks Lane 1 it's all done.

What would make it interesting is if the first seed DIDN'T pick Lane 1, but picked Lane 3 instead.

Q. Would the 2nd seed pick Lane 1, or 2?

A. Lane 1 every time.

Do you mean

why isn't montreal Lane 3 (1 seed), Lane 4 (2 seed), Lane 2 (3 seed), Lane 5 (4 seed), Lane 1 (5 seed) and Lane 6 (6th seed).

This would at least result in the fastest boat likely winning the heat. It would require an upset from the 5th seed which is unlikely to happen.

With respect to picking lanes, it would take way too long or be too confusing. There is a reason that festivals don't do this.

I call Bullsh_t to that last comment. In the mixed 500m Hanalei was seeded 5th, they would have had an excellent chance of winning from Lane 1. Think before you write.

Additional bullsh_t Tripod was in Lane 1 for the mens 500m final, DCH (top seed) in Lane 3 ....who won, yes Lane 1 not lane 2,3 or 4. So shut up you don't know what you are talking about!

Conventional lane seeding would be 4, 3, 5, 2, 6, 1 so the crap you are sprouting is garbage. Montreal uses some ridiculous hybrid of conventional seeding/lane positionng and a degree of recognizing the lane bias.

This is starting to look a lot like what PDBC did at Pickering for thier finals before enough complaints were heard and they recognized the lane bias completely.

Hey Sunny wake the f_ck up!

TADAAAA!

Tripod? What kind of name is that for a men's team???

I don't know what kind of name that is, but when you're the fastest boat of the weekend (500m final, 100m demo) I guess you earn the right to call yourself whatever you want!

times arfe so dang close that there isn't truly a 1 and 2 seed. Those teams probably were not the same after the first race as the second. Suck it up. Last year lanes 1 and 6 couldn't win a race and this year everyone loves it. WIND???

I was in the boat that finished 25th overall. Am I allowed to call myself what I want too?

Seapea summed up MIDBF in two words: Gong Show. This is not a gripe about the results. I just think the format with no semis, two-finals and two-champions is dumb. And I know the lane seeding is dumb.

If "suck it up" is all you've got, you're welcome to keep sucking on it for as long as you like. Personally, I'd like to see this festival make some improvements for next year.

I disgree, this format offers a different flavor from other festivals. It is refreshing to have a festival with a slightly different format and still race at a competitive level. I wouldn't change it.

I too like the format of having 2 finals, really enjoy the 250.

Only change I would consider is maybe either average the 2 races instead single best time or go with 1st race, then a semi on the saturday

If they want to do the 250 there should be a 250 qualifyer.

You race 3 X 500 and then tack on one 250 and make it equivalent to the 500?

Sorry. That's a bad format.

It's fine. Leave it alone, it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I like what they are doing there.
The best of the fest, etc..