With the number of mixed teams in the GTA area, why aren't there more men's teams? I know Rip the Fondue just started up a couple of years ago, and showed they can compete in the international arena (3rd place 200m @ Penang). There are other throw together teams who demonstrated they could keep up with Rip as well (Put Tang, the Bus). Why aren't teams getting together to elevate the overall level of competition?

Feel free to troll/flame away.

2 reasons

a) unbalanced competition
b) lack of competitive races.

There are/were only a handful of men's races and they would be dominated by the canoe guys.

Canoers seem to have lost interest and the average competitive dragon boater is much better so maybe things will change.

Most regattas in Ontario don't even have a Men's race, so why bother? Women's divisions are much more plentifuly so there's more racing opportunity. I think that the large number of BCS teams has something to do with that.

Women's teams are also often allowed to race in both the Mixed division and the Women's, so they get good value for their dollar. Men's teams on the other hand can't race in Mixed, and free racing has largely gone away, so racing a Men's team is often just extra expense for one or two extra races in a weekend.

The only thing that seems to assist in the formation of Men's teams are the Club Crew World Championships. It's easier to qualify a Men's team than a Mixed team, where there's much more competition. However this hasn't led to any groundswell in men's team formation outside of club crew qualifying.

my 2 cents

So is this a chicken and the egg situation?

Regatta's don't want to hold the races because there is no demand. However, there is no demand, therefore there are no races.

I know GWN and the Island has been holding an open category for a few years now, the smaller might have a final day race with an open category, however, I can't think of an event where there's another open division.

It would be nice to see more men's teams form in the area to help raise the bar.

Well they are not helping the cause by calling themselves something silly like Rip the Fondue. All well and good to have some fun and sense of humour, but if you want to be taken seriously, start by how people view your crew. Imagine talking to someone not in the sport, and they ask who you paddle for, and while trying to convince them the sport is gaining momentum, or attracting athletes, you have tell them the name of your crew is RTF.

What is this? High School? how about Outer Harbour men's crew or something a little more distinguished?

Maybe I'm just being old fashioned.

PS This is not an attempt to slag the crew or its efforts. I am merely making a point about identity, self promotion, etc.

Part of the problem is entry fee based. People who signed onto mix don't want to pay the same fee for open, especially if they are less races. Some organizers in the past reduced the entry fee for double entries, getting more participation and more fee dollars.

doing both categories is a lot of fun.

Someone has to say it, we're in this for the "chicks", I'd rather have some nice looking ladies around then be hanging around with a bunch of dudes all the time

...which also explains the increasing number of women-only crews.

Its only going to get worse.

Apparently they are removing the previous rule where a Men's or Woman's team can be made up of members from at least three clubs.

This means that any gender team will either all need to join the same club (IE. potentially leave their existing clubs which is not likely) or else have their respective mixed crews all form into an umbrella club.

This is obviously going to help the likes of Outer Harbor DBC and Pickering, but it's going to be a real problem for a lot of others if they want to compete at club crews.

Please correct me if I am wrong. I don't have this info first hand, but was told the same thing by several involved in Men's/Women's teams.

Alot of all this started to eliminate super crews. 3pp rule was the worst of it but this is marginally(?) better. In the GTA you're going to end up having everyone joing OHDBC and then they can share paddlers without worrying (Mayfair for example had a Hammerhead and Hydro on their roster for CCWC). This isn't an improvement, just rename OHDBC to GTDBC and Mayfair to Imps and its 2001 all over again.

Long live the idiotic club system. We used to have single gender crews. Now we get jokes.

Just to keep a few things clear.

The GTDBC was a "club" set up to include everyone from the TCBA festival, I believe. Some of their members only raced at the Island, but were included for numbers. Not sure that all crews that were under their banner even practiced there. They were more like an umbrella organization with crews specifically built for international competition, like the Cruisers.

The OHDBC has about 15 teams that all practice at the site from May to October. They have a womens program (premier and senior)that includes athletes from many of these teams, plus others. If members from the club are asked to paddle on a CCWC entry (like Mayfair or RTF), they can...they are from the same club. As well, it should be noted that the only reason Mayfair used two other club paddlers was because they couldn't get all of their team to go to Penang and this is absolutely acceptable to DBC within the eligibility rules at present.

The club system is still growing but at the OHDBC there are a number of quality crews that enjoy training there and obviously find the environment conducive to success (Hydros, Hammerheads, Chaos, Predators, women, among others). They could have a very good open program if someone steps up and starts it. RTF might be a good place to begin.

It sounds as if some people do not want to see the evolution of club teams, but to race with False Creek and the Beasts (provincial teams really), it will have to happen. The key will be to preserve the legacy teams in some form for festival racing and friendships. That way everyone has a goal to shoot for in their DB goals.

Pickering is formed, perhaps someone in the west end will get a club organized. Not sure of the present status of the National DBC at present.

So if someone belongs to a team that has no club affiliation, are they free to join any club? Ex. A Hanalei member wants to join an OHDBC Men's team.

"So if someone belongs to a team that has no club affiliation, are they free to join any club? Ex. A Hanalei member wants to join an OHDBC Men's team."

Yes, they could do this, but they couldn't be on Hanalei's mixed crew roster for any DBC events IF Hanalei registered their mixed crew with DBC.

This can be a problem for mixed crews that have members on unisex crews that want to race their mixed crew at the DBC Nationals or in a Club Crew Qualifier.

Using the Hanalei example above, some might suggest that if Hanalei joined the OHDBC "in name only", that is affiliated themselves with the OHDBC, but didn't practice there, they could solve their problem of unisex crew participation at the OH. That would be a club membership of convenience only and that is not possible at the OHDBC at present, simply not allowed.

Other "clubs" may do this, but it should not be allowed anywhere, IMO. Make your choice of clubs and stick with it for all racing.

It's nothing to a festival to have more open races if the demand was there and it's really too bad that more open teams form as a result because internationally that's where the action is at. Only in NA is the focus on mixed crews.

I would also imagine it is easier to get funding and sponsorship for a mixed or women's team.

To the original poster:

When you say the bus could keep up with rip the fondue, you mean keep up with, as in beat them?

From the poster from before don't hit RTF for their name. There had been rumour that they we going to change to Toronto or Ontario Dragon Boat Crew/Club. Besides what counts is not the name but the performance of a team. Many professional sports have funny names Mighty Duck, Raptors....you get my drift

It is hard enough for men's teams to get together and to be honest their are not that many. In Ontario they are currently the top crew...don't judge GWN they were out for fun but when it count such as nationals they sure showed what they can do. Please remember there is not one national paddler on this team so are far as representing they are a good thing for this sport. Fun, workhard, competitive...hey let me know when we get paid for this sport and then we can talk!

Outside RTF, Montreal really is much more organized with Men's crews. They are really helping men's premier team. Montreal always has the best and most men's teams overall.

In Penang both Montreal Men and RTF did fairly well.

I would even propose that if these 2 teams combined they would compete at the highest level in the world Dboat competitions.

Food for thought!

Instead of having all these different clubs and limiting ourselves in organizing great paddlers because of club issue we should all be under the same club and use you crew name to distinguish yourself.

That way when is comes to CCWC we can put together kick ass teams to compete on the world stage.

Canada East Dragon Boat Club so Quebec and Ontario teams can combine.

I agree that if teams like RTF and Montreal combined...hang on cox we going to ROCK ....we will show you the Canadian chute, shoot, whatever you call that thing!

YEAH

Just reading this thread and I am down with that idea!

"Canada East Dragon Boat Club so Quebec and Ontario teams can combine"

Why stop at that? Why not all of Canada? The Canadian Club Crew Team!!

Oh no, that's called the national team....

CCWC's are lame, the real teams race at the Worlds. Hail False Creek!!

Its simple. Its MUCH easier to qualify a mens team for the Worlds.

There are no men's teams in Ottawa. In fact, the mixed crews often have a hard time finding 12(good or otherwise) men ... the much debated 10 and 10 rule would work really well here. Demographics.