This has been announced elsewhere but it seems like there are a number of US paddlers and Florida paddlers who frequent this forum.
There will be OC-1 time trials for the US team held in a number of locations over the next two months. This is for serious contenders only. You will be asked for your paddling background and a coach's recommendation before being allowed to test (get that ahead of time to save a step).

West coast: trial is 4/18 in San Diego, where the dragon boat teams launch for practice out of Mission Bay. Distance around 400 meters.

Southeast: Just confirmed 5/9 early AM trial in Tampa on their race course in front of the Marriott, Joe Sinkovic is helping to set this up. You can contact him or me. Distance 500 meters.

Multiple trials in Philly from mid-May through June on weekends. Variable distances, depends on weekend.
All levels (open, senior, GM) can test.* One sided paddling with an approved dragon boat paddle. Standing start. Outrigger to test in is supplied at site but you better know how to paddle one ahead of time.

Feel free to contact me directly at Robert.McNamara@tuhs.temple.edu if more information needed. I do not wish to get into a long discussion on this forum.
*Junior paddlers should contact me directly

"You will be asked for your paddling background and a coach's recommendation before being allowed to test (get that ahead of time to save a step)."

I don't think recommendation from a coach is required.

"...it seems like there are a number of US paddlers and Florida paddlers who frequent this forum."


When did Florida secede from the Union? : )

"All levels (open, senior, GM) can test."


Is the U.S. sending a GM team to Prague? There were rumors that the GM team was not happening. Let's hope not. The more the merrier.

Couple of questions.

Why only a 400-meter test in SD vs. a 500-meter test in Tampa? Someone who's not in top shape could look really good in a 400-meter trial but would come up short in a 500-meter trial. (Heck, if the Grand Final in Sydney was only 400 meters, the Phillipines would have won that race!)

How do you control for different conditions in each location? Aside from the distance difference described above, there are also factors like wind, salinity, and even water temperature.

Probably this is just a first round to determine basic paddling competence and screen out people who really shouldn't be there, and later they'll get everyone in one place and see how they do against each other.

Sp what you're saying is that Bob will pick the top talent from CD and Tampa, and then bring them somewhere else (Philly?) to test again. Who is going to pay the travel expenses for all those paddlers who are going to test again?

I would think the reason they use 400 meters is because they are looking at the time it would take most, on a oc1 , to cover 400 is about the same time it would take a d/b to cover 500. They are just trying to see if you can last the say a 1.50 - 2 + minute time period

OK, then why not do a 400-meter test in Tampa, too?

The Philly-location tests are typically in the 2:10-2:30 range.

Do they do a 400m time trial in Philly?

Why OC-1 when in DB paddlers do not have to steer. An OC-2 with the same steersperson for each group would allow each to concentrate on paddling and the SP can call the split time. Can't use legs in OC-1. OC-2 at 300-400 meters would be better judge of strength and stamina.

As Bob wrote above, different distances are used for testing in Philly, depending on the day. Some of the tests are done in a very shallow canal, so distance is not as relevant because the water depth likely slows the boats.

You know what ,stop whinning and just get on the boat and do the time trial ,I have never seen so much bitching & complaining .If you are questioning it then you're questioning your own confidence

Here in Canada we have to do it in a oc1 ( just like you do ) and do 2 x 200 ,a 500 & a 1000 .You don't see anyone complaining about it on this side do you ? We just go out do it and hope it was good enough .

"...I have never seen so much bitching & complaining "

What are you, new around here?

Why only a 400-meter test in SD vs. a 500-meter test in Tampa? Someone who's not in top shape could look really good in a 400-meter trial but would come up short in a 500-meter trial. (Heck, if the Grand Final in Sydney was only 400 meters, the Phillipines would have won that race!)

Tampa paddlers are tougher:)
Actually as was said above 400 meters in a dragon boat is closer to the actual time of a 500 meter dragon boat race. Even paddling both sides using a huge outrigger blade in the world outrigger sprint championships the fastest times were in the low 2 minutes with most really good paddlers hanging around 2 and 1/2 minutes. For example, Danny Ching did a 2:19 in the final and if he is the fastest in the USA then someone paddling one side only with a dragon boat blade is not going to get near this time. You would think the times would be high 2 to 3 minutes for dragon boat trials of 500 meters.

267 Open Men - V1 500 Final 8:26 AM Lane Time
1st DUBOIS Taaroa, Bob, Albert Tahiti 1 2:10.01
2nd Lai Fao, Romeo Tahiti 3 2:10.75
3rd VAIRAAROA Tainuiatea Yannick Tahiti 2 2:11.61
4th MATI Heirani Tahiti 5 2:17.43
5th Danny Ching California 7 2:19.03
6th AH SIN Rudy, Tetairoa Tahiti 8 2:21.48
7th Van Gieson, Alfred Hawai'i 6 2:23.45
DNS Trope, Clovis Tahiti 4
International Va'a Federation

In most time trials its all 1 side ,not like the world outrigger sprints where we do both .You fatigue alot earlier going all 1 side

"Why OC-1 when in DB paddlers do not have to steer. An OC-2 with the same steersperson for each group would allow each to concentrate on paddling and the SP can call the split time. Can't use legs in OC-1. OC-2 at 300-400 meters would be better judge of strength and stamina."


Two problems with this post.

(1) You certainly can use legs in an OC-1!

(2) An OC-2 test with a steersperson biases toward the bigger (more muscular) paddler, who will have an easier time pulling the extra person (especially from a standing start). In a DB, each paddler is responsible for about 50 pounds of weight beyond the weight of the paddlers. An OC-1 weighs close to 50 pounds, so an OC-1 test is similar to DB in terms of pulling weight. But a paddler in an OC-2 is pulling another person, likely at least another 160 pounds.

The weight is only part of the equation, and makes the most difference in the first 20 seconds of the race when you're starting from a dead stop. The real question is how much resistance the paddler must overcome to keep the boat moving. This is a combination of both the shape of the hull and how the hull sits in the water (which is related to weight but changes with speed and is affected by technique). I don't think anyone has done an in-depth comparison of the hydrodynamics of outriggers and dragonboats so it's tough to say how to translate results from one boat into the other. My sense is the OC is the closest to the dragon boat in that regard, I just don't know how close.

everyone seems to TT this way so.... train hard and do your best.

We use DBuno, a modified canoe, with a steer sitting in back with oar and the paddler in the middle of the boat. Sandbags are used to balance. Footrests are installed to simulate the "ribs" of the DB. Weight of steer to paddler is taken into consideration (try to keep as even as possible). Usually only do 250m to 350m runs. This has been a good tool to determine who has most "power", as well as endurance in maintaining techique. There is a learning curve with DBuno, both for steer and paddler. It appears DBuno favors heavier paddlers. Small paddlers who otherwise are very strong often post much slower times. This could also be due to shorter reach and depth.

I believe they use this in CA too.

"It appears DBuno favors heavier paddlers. Small paddlers who otherwise are very strong often post much slower times."

So why do you use this boat??

The OC-1, while not perfect (not the same leg position), at least seems to not give a heavier/lighter paddler an advantage.

Ditto, why use that boat? a steering oar would create more drag than that of the OC1 steering and adding sand bags is ridiculous, but we are talking about individual performance here so as long as everyone is presented the same opportunity, and its working for your team, who am I to knock it.Pick you poison, ERG, OC1, OC2, DBuno... just do your thing.

bigger person sits lower in the water so they do not actually have the advantage. Stronger? Yes, but why shouldn't they have the advantage...

DBUno allows you to use your feet and push off the wall, whereas OC-1 doesn't. Also, use a DB paddle, not an outrigger paddle.

The oar in a real dragon boat provides drag too, as does the rudder on an OC-1.

Also, seating is much more similar to that of a dragon boat with DBUno, as opposed to OC-1.

To each is own. It's alot more econmical. Set up for about $525 per boat versus $2-3K for an OC-1. Easier to store, no rudders or seats to be broken. We sometimes run two boats at a time, so the competitive spirit can be felt.

"bigger person sits lower in the water so they do not actually have the advantage. Stronger? Yes, but why shouldn't they have the advantage..."


You're missing the point. If a boat is already heavy (due to the weight of the boat AND the extra person steering), the boat is already sitting lower. A larger paddler's weight -- in proportion to the weight of the boat/person already there -- will not make much of a difference at that point compared to the weight of a lighter paddler.

"DBUno allows you to use your feet and push off the wall, whereas OC-1 doesn't. Also, use a DB paddle, not an outrigger paddle."

You can certainly push of on an OC-1! And you don't test on an OC-1 with an outrigger paddle. You use a dragon boat paddle.


"The oar in a real dragon boat provides drag too, as does the rudder on an OC-1."

Please. The oar in a dragon boat certainly provides more drag than the steersman in a DBUno, but the dragon boat is being moved by 20 people. So each person in a dragon boat only deals with 1/20th of the drag of the steering oar. The drag of an OC-1 rudder is less than the drag on of the boat caused by whoever is steering a DBUno.


"Also, seating is much more similar to that of a dragon boat with DBUno, as opposed to OC-1."

Ah! Now that's an excellent point. The flaw of the OC-1 test is that the seating is quite different than in a dragon boat. So there is no perfect test.

anyone have a link to a db uno? cant find it

I love that all you DB paddlers can't figure out how to use your legs in an OC -- and love it even more that you think that this means NO-ONE can use their legs in an OC.

So how do you use your legs effectively in an OC1? I can rotate my hips a bit on the stroke but I cant get any huge push like the Tahitian thread in video on the other thread. Especially when you don't paddle left, whenever I get any huge hip movement the boat almost tips over or doesnt run very smooth.

PaddlinTime@gmail.com

Watch the Taihitian guy. HUGE leg movement while paddling both sides. Practice, practice, practice.

So I guess you have to pretty much pull with your hamstrings to get your hips to move forward like that? It's like not like OC-1 seats slide or are slippery at all.

"So how do you use your legs effectively in an OC1? I can rotate my hips a bit on the stroke but I cant get any huge push like the Tahitian thread in video on the other thread. Especially when you don't paddle left, whenever I get any huge hip movement the boat almost tips over or doesnt run very smooth."

Center your body. Don't collapse outside the boat or roll into it.
Body and boat control....http://www.ocpaddler.com/node/1636

There's no leg drive in that one...

I think the point of that video is show you that you first need to learn to center your weight while paddling, THEN incorporate a leg drive. For if your weight in not centered, any leg drive will exaggerate the weight imbalance.

"We use DBuno, a modified canoe, with a steer sitting in back with oar and the paddler in the middle of the boat. "

So what top teams use the DBuno? It is clear that to make the US team you have to be able to skedaddle in an OC-1 but maybe lower level teams would do better with a DBuno given the costs, skill set, etc.

The U.S. will still be the favorites in the 2000 and 1000 in Prague. They are loaded with top outrigger paddlers who are used to long distances.

The 200 will likely go to an Asian team, especially if the Philipines show up.

The 500 is the big question mark. That will be the bog test for the U.S.

you are on the wrong thread, this is about trials not Prague

How did the trials go?
Did anyone from ICF try to bum rush the show?

There is no ICF vs. IDBF issue in the U.S. There were people at the tryouts who have paddled at ICF events in the past. McNamara has in the past had paddlers on his national crew who are USACK paddlers. He will put the fastest team on the water.

The IDBF has been clear all along that it does not want the paddlers to be penalized for organizational politics. In keeping with that, the USDBF team should welcome USACK paddlers even if they do not agree that USACK should be saying it has a national team. There have been a number of those types on US teams for many years so nothing should change.

Is this true of coaches etc also?

If you coach an ICF team - are you saying you won't be black-balled from coaching an IDBF team? How about if you are an organizer or the like?

Is this true of coaches etc also?

If you coach an ICF team - are you saying you won't be black-balled from coaching an IDBF team? How about if you are an organizer or the like?

That would probably be left up to the national organization to decide. My opinion is that the USDBF (or Dragonboat Canada) would not look on that favorably but someone from there would have to answer the question. I doubt they would let a high level player in the competing group play in the sand box but who knows?

Ross Flemer is the captain (not the coach) of the USDBF national Premier team. Ross is also a director at USACK. So I doubt that anyone will be blackballed.

"Ross Flemer is the captain (not the coach) of the USDBF national Premier team. Ross is also a director at USACK. So I doubt that anyone will be blackballed."

Don't be so sure, he is primarily a paddler with the USDBF. I would be very surprised if the coach/organizational level personnel who pulled out of Prague and then turned around and started a new organization that can only be viewed as a competing entity will be allowed to coach or hold office in the USDBF.

" I would be very surprised if the coach/organizational level personnel who pulled out of Prague and then turned around and started a new organization that can only be viewed as a competing entity will be allowed to coach or hold office in the USDBF."


Why do you insist that the USACK DB organization is a competing entity? Why can't both organizations co-exist? I GUARANTEE you that there will be USACK DB paddlers (and some of them are named in the USACK DB organization chart as directors) paddling for the USDBF in Prague.

whose standards will prevail in determining the legality of paddles used in USACK races?

if it's not the idbf protocol then man, bring on the centre island cowans from 2001!

"Why do you insist that the USACK DB organization is a competing entity? Why can't both organizations co-exist? I GUARANTEE you that there will be USACK DB paddlers (and some of them are named in the USACK DB organization chart as directors) paddling for the USDBF in Prague."

I don't think that is a conflict, director in one, paddle in the other. The sticking point, if any, would be being a director/coach in both. But hey in reality it may be a non-issue as the two groups might just ignore one another.

There is no issue with USACK members participating in dragon boat racing within their own organization or with USDBF teams (if they become USDBF members); just like there is no issue if USDBF decided to create a Canoe-Kayak section within their organization and if their members decide to canoe-kayak.

The sticker will be when USACK decides it is going to host an event called the USACK National Dragon Boat Championships and the event is open to USACK members only. This would be similar to the USDBF hosting an event called the USDBF Canoe Kayak National Championships. I wonder how USACK would feel about that?

A National Championship brand should be proprietory to the official sport organization for that particular sport. In this case it is the USDBF as evidenced by their membership with the IDBF which is the official world governing body.

"The sticker will be when USACK decides it is going to host an event called the USACK National Dragon Boat Championships and the event is open to USACK members only. This would be similar to the USDBF hosting an event called the USDBF Canoe Kayak National Championships. I wonder how USACK would feel about that?

A National Championship brand should be proprietory to the official sport organization for that particular sport. In this case it is the USDBF as evidenced by their membership with the IDBF which is the official world governing body."


Uh, this is the United States. Unless you own the trademark to any such brand, you can call your race anything you want. Free enterprise, baby.

"Uh, this is the United States. Unless you own the trademark to any such brand, you can call your race anything you want. Free enterprise, baby."

And it apparently matters little to you Americans if it is a sham as long as it has a grandiose title. A USACK national team with no race off for it fits just perfectly with your calling many of your sports titles world championships even though there are no foreign teams competing.

i'm tired.

"And it apparently matters little to you Americans if it is a sham as long as it has a grandiose title. A USACK national team with no race off for it fits just perfectly with your calling many of your sports titles world championships even though there are no foreign teams competing."


To this day, some of the USDBF entries at the IDBF Worlds still got their bids without a national race-off because only one team entered the Nationals in some divisions. Even the Premier Open division race-off has had only two entries at the past two Nationals. It's all a sham, really.

Even the Premier Open division race-off has had only two entries at the past two Nationals.

I think that will be changing soon, LARD, San Diego, and TECO all should be contenders soon and they are talent pulled locally so if they pulled in talent from other cities, states, etc... It would be insane. If LARD and SD time trialed and merged for the men's national race they would be strong competition. If TECO pulled the talent from their state, and then time trialed they too would be a contender. Matter of fact I hope they are reading this.

"I think that will be changing soon, LARD, San Diego, and TECO all should be contenders soon and they are talent pulled locally so if they pulled in talent from other cities, states, etc... It would be insane. If LARD and SD time trialed and merged for the men's national race they would be strong competition. If TECO pulled the talent from their state, and then time trialed they too would be a contender. Matter of fact I hope they are reading this."

Didn't the West Coast pool talent to challenge Philly in Long Beach, the team was called the West Coast Paddling Association and not San Diego? The times TECO is turning in while good club times are nowhere near what is needed to win at the big show. Doubt if a collection of Florida paddlers is at the level CA can field. Next US nationals is a bus ride for Philly, they will be tougher on the East Coast.

"Didn't the West Coast pool talent to challenge Philly in Long Beach, the team was called the West Coast Paddling Association and not San Diego? The times TECO is turning in while good club times are nowhere near what is needed to win at the big show. Doubt if a collection of Florida paddlers is at the level CA can field. Next US nationals is a bus ride for Philly, they will be tougher on the East Coast. "


Unless the next US Nationals are near NYC (where the NYC teams MIGHT race against Philly), expect Philly to win unopposed. There is NO ONE on the East Coast who can challenge Philly.

As for LARD, etc., they had the last Nationals on their home course and did compete against Philly by putting a combined SoCal team together. Philly dominated.

"As for LARD, etc., they had the last Nationals on their home course and did compete against Philly by putting a combined SoCal team together. Philly dominated."

LARD didn't combine with any teams - it raced as a purely club team. However, WCPA was a composite team. WCPA would have done a lot better had the paddlers actually practiced together. Either way, Philly dominated.

FYI guys and gals - there already is a hybrid FL team called Abby Normal made up of TECO, Tampa Blade Runners and some south florida paddlers. They did not perform well at Long Beach last year.

"LARD didn't combine with any teams - it raced as a purely club team. However, WCPA was a composite team. WCPA would have done a lot better had the paddlers actually practiced together. Either way, Philly dominated."

Thanks for clearing that up.

If you think WCPA would have challenged Philly if WCPA had practiced together, keep in mind that many of the paddlers on the Philly team rarely/never practice together either.

How did the trials go?

hybrid FL team called Abby Normal made up of TECO, Tampa Blade Runners and some south florida paddlers...

That is a mixed team and I am certain it is not made up of the best paddlers in their area. the word on the street is that is being worked on but the I will not hold my breathe to see it make any difference.

The word on the street is that there were only 3 picked up for the us team in the west coast. Can anyone confirm or denied? Also does anyone know the times? Thanks!

I heard that too.

Does that 3 include Senior and Grand masters and women (all divisions)?

"I think that will be changing soon, LARD, San Diego, and TECO all should be contenders soon and they are talent pulled locally so if they pulled in talent from other cities, states, etc... It would be insane. If LARD and SD time trialed and merged for the men's national race they would be strong competition. If TECO pulled the talent from their state, and then time trialed they too would be a contender. Matter of fact I hope they are reading this."

As wonderful as it would be to pool local talent to challenge Philly, I fear it may never happen. For something like this to happen leadership would have to put their egos aside and work together. Since the culture of the teams on the west coast are primarily rec club, convincing teams to put aside their team goals to give only a select group of their best paddlers a proper nationals level experience would be a monumental task. Maybe in time, they'll realize that year after year of fighting over small potatoes stunts a teams' growth, and the only way to keep a team (and it's paddlers) growing is to make an effective step to that next level of paddling. As a matter of fact, I hope theyre reading this. Any coaches from the west coast care to step up and commit to building a respectable team to compete in 2010. everyone's saying that we've got the talent.

"Any coaches from the west coast care to step up and commit to building a respectable team to compete in 2010. everyone's saying that we've got the talent."

It may not make a difference, the USDBF is going more for a national team concept and the may not even have the race off in the future. One of the reasons there are all these trials is to move in that direction.

If this is the case don't you think they would inform their members? I'd hate to see time, money and effort wasted by a sudden unexpected policy change. USDBF - please start communicating with your members!!!!!

No race-offs? That's ridiculous. While Philly dominates in many of the divisions, they don't win EVERY division. At the last Nationals, Philly won 6 of the 13 divisions. Let the best teams fight it out in every division and then each winning team's coach can tweak his team for the Worlds. That's exactly what McNamara is doing now with the time trials -- trying to improve his teams.

The talk of this was only for the Premier team not the others. One problem is the issue of organizations and coaches not being willing to do what McNamara/Philly is doing to bring in outsiders to strengthen their team. The top 1/3 of a second place boat is going to be faster than the bottom 1/3 of a winning boat. It is not an easy thing to do, you take a paddler who has been with you for a few years, helped win nationals and you have to tell them you are not good enough for worlds. Many want to paddle a club crew when it takes more than that to win especially in a venue like Prague.

"It is not an easy thing to do, you take a paddler who has been with you for a few years, helped win nationals and you have to tell them you are not good enough for worlds."


McNamara has been doing that for several years. He realized that this strategy is the only way to compete with the elite teams at the Worlds.

Are you kidding me? TECO and Abby Normal as Team USA? I'm thinking a few of the Canadian coaches are spending a little too much time in the Florida sun and are starting to think a little too highly of their work. What was the other team name thrown out, LARD? Please? Does anyone think a club team is going to compete against a composite team made up of the best athletes hand selected through a trial process? The USDBF would be smart to pull their collective heads out of their asses and turn the whole thing over to someone who knows what they hell they are doing. Not just Team USA, I mean the whole enchilada. While we're at it, the folks on the West Coast should quit having their little temper tantrums and running to Dr. Chen to solve their problems. If everyone started acting like grownups there wouldn't be any USDBF vs. USACK talk and the USA could stand up and drive a knife into the ICF. Then we could all get back to flaming each other instead of having serious discussions like this.

There are speculations, gossips and then there are the results. Coach Bob have opened the door for people to show what they got. Bring it! Time trial and show your time. Why talk?

It is my understanding that unless you fall below the 3 minutes you will not be considered. So! only three in the West Coast below three minutes? That said a lot about the paddlers! Lets see what the east coast can show.

This forum is more entertaining that it is useful.

"This forum is more entertaining that it is useful."

So? Is that bad?

Three minutes? All times in SD were below three minutes. WAY below. Who makes the team has nothing to do with a predetermined time. Instead, Bob times himself first over the given distance so he has a benchmark. Then he tests everyone and knows by how close they are to his time where everyone stands.

Bob is doing a wonderful thing by opening up the time trials and providing venues on both coasts. Some paddlers take this very seriously, in addition to paddling as much as possible, doing gym work or cross training EVERY DAY, all the while paddling with their teams with vigerous coaching. Shaving 12 secs or more off your team's time in less than 4 months is quite an accomplishment for any team or paddler. Florida paddlers need to keep it up with their hard work, year-round, as they have done. Eventually, these teams may catch or exceed LARD and Philly at Nationals. TECO and the Tampa Blade Runners Red may have a chance one day in the next couple of years, if they keep their TEAM attitudes and comprehensive training going. Abby Normal has no chance at all. They don't practice as a team and some members are purely recreational.

Just one opinion.

"All times in SD were below three minutes. WAY below."

I sure as hell hope so since it was said the trials in SD were 400M's. I never heard of having 400M TT's for men.

Also, I don't think TECO or Tampa Blade Runners will be able to contend unless they time trial outside of their boats similar to what Bob is doing for Philly. Or better yet, they have a bunch of the best paddlers in their region coming to the trial... psssst why don't you get those folks together and build a "real team."

Oh and good luck in the races this weekend in Tampa.

As a LARD paddler and coach, I truly appreciate the kind words, but LARD should not be considered anywhere near the level that Philly paddles at (trying to be proactive to avoid the bashing).

LARD is an upper level club/rec team - not a composite team whose primary goal seems to be representing the U.S.A. Every once in awhile LARD can claw its way into a competitive final, but we don't post sub 2 minute times in the 500 or sub 1 minute times in the 200.

FYI -

Tampa Blade Runners Red beat out both TECO teams in Finals in Tampa yesterday.

The TBR stroke and TECO stroke techniques are different. Difficult to mix boats. It's been tried via Abby Normal and not successful.

A National level paddler is able to adapt fairly quickly regardless of styles ,this is what makes them a National Team contender

"A National level paddler is able to adapt fairly quickly regardless of styles ,this is what makes them a National Team contender" - What a big load of crap!

The US team that won the Nations Cup had guys with different styles. They did not practice together until they were all in Sydney. They adapted and won. So it can be done.

"The US team that won the Nations Cup had guys with different styles. They did not practice together until they were all in Sydney. They adapted and won. So it can be done."

That boat looked like it paddled together for years. Credit goes to the paddlers for adapting and the coaches for putting the seating arrangement together.

Most of them have paddled together for years, but some had not. Adaptation at its finest.

"The TBR stroke and TECO stroke techniques are different. Difficult to mix boats. It's been tried via Abby Normal and not successful."

That's because abby doesn't take the best of the best, and they don't have a coach! The best paddlers from every team would adapt.

Tampa National Team Time Trials were held Sat.

4 men and 3 women have been invited to Philly for next round of testing.

Best male did 500m at 1:47 (young guy!) MEN - 3 from TECO (2 GMasters), 1 from Puff (premier)

Women (1 from TECO; 1 from Tampa Blade Runners Red (GMasters). Uncertain about other woman.

Perfect conditions. Very little wind/current.

A Florida mixed "Dream Team" is being formed. Need to also form women's and men's.

Many of men's times were under 3 min.

Guy did a 1:47 in 500 meters? Yeah right. The Tahitian V1 Champion did a 500 meter on a rudderless (ie. faster than an OC1 which has drag from a rudder) in 2:10. 400 meters maybe, definitely not 500 meters.

probably meant 2:47

It was 2:47 and the course was 500 meters. a little bit of a current against but almost flat.

Since we are naming names, a congrats to those asked to the next round, that also goes for the other cities that Bob visited. As for this past Sat trials, I think you missed some people, There was 5 names called 2 premier (1 PUFF 1 TECO) and 3 Masters (2 TECO 1 PUFF)There was also two other names called as possible invites to Masters (1 PUFF and 1 HB) I hope that is correct, if not please correct me. Best of luck to those traveling up to PA for the next round! Regardless of how it turns out, you just accomplished a great thing, despite very limited OC1 exposure making the best of your opportunity.

I think the interest for OC1's in Florida just increased based since these tryouts.

Quick question about OC time trials. It seems OC's sit much higher on the water, therfore do people move from a 50inch paddle to a 51 for OC time trials?

"Quick question about OC time trials. It seems OC's sit much higher on the water, therfore do people move from a 50inch paddle to a 51 for OC time trials?"

Don't know what people did but if you want to optimize your race you should try to use a dragon boat paddle that is an inch or two longer (depending on your weight and what type of OC is used).

Unless you are really short, you should already be paddling in the dragon boat with a 51-inch paddle.

"Unless you are really short, you should already be paddling in the dragon boat with a 51-inch paddle."

Sez who? That is the maximum allowed length, the article on paddle length in DBWI suggested a range. Why so long?

The article is wrong. The longer the paddle, the greater the leverage. Use a 51-inch paddle, unless you are truly too short (below about 5' 8") to use one.

It is usually best to go with the longest paddle that you can comfortably use in your seat and boat. But remember, if your boat sits very low, the boat receives a heavy bow wave, you are stuck in seat 1, and your stroke rate is through the roof, a long paddle may do more bad than good to your throughput.

There is a reason why the IDBF limits paddle length to no more than 51 inches: the longer the paddle, the more leverage. So go with the longest paddle you can!

Only if you want to throw your shoulder out

You'll only throw your shoulder out if you have (relatively) weak shoulders. Get to gym a bit more often and you'll have no problem handling a long paddle. When I first tried the 51-inch paddle, I couldn't use it because my top shoulder would hurt. But after I spend some time developing more shoulder strength, I've had no problems.

Does anyone have a link to that article?

Special Congrats to the four Florida paddlers that made TEAM USA! And to all the others! Good luck in Prague!

Good job. Subs or starters? Premier, Women, Senior, GM, etc.?

CONGRATS!!!! I am assuming there will be more next year considering the Worlds is coming to Tampa soon. can we assume that at least 3 were TECO?

I think the Tampa paddlers include one guy for the Open boat (sub), 1 Senior guy (starter), 1 GM woman (starter) and 1 GM man (starter).

The 2 younger men are from Puff the Magic Dragon - not sure about the others.

Congrats to these paddlers who tested at home and then flew to Philly for time trials and evaluation in the dragonboat. They definitely proved that they have the right stuff!
Nat

so 6 made it? Awesome, congrats. The US Time trials in Florida brought a huge interest in OC1's down here. Not only does Tampa have the stronger dragonboat crews but I also hear they are the top outrigger crews in Florida too.

It sounds like 4 made it. Great job.

So Florida what's the scoop on coach McNamara, is he as unfair/self-centered as his ex-Philly detractors claim (see other thread) or was this too short an exposure to judge?

I met him twice, once in Tampa, and again in. I don't think he was self centered at all. Very nice guy that took a lot of time out to not only time trial in Tampa, but went beyond that and gave some pointers to a Florida team.

If you think about it, he knows what it takes to win and as he travels trying to find talent, it is sparking a lot of interest in the way top teams trial. OC1's for example, I know of 4 teams that since the trials have went out and acquired them realizing it will make them better individual paddlers.

The guys that make the team, are going to bring back so much experience that hopefully their teams back home will benefit.

Tampa TEAM USA members -
Female GM is a Tampa Bay Dragon Boat Club Blade Runner Red team-member
Male GM is from TECO

The hype out of Tampa is amazing. You contributed one male 50+ paddler and one female 50+ paddler. You found it necessary to post that info????

"The hype out of Tampa is amazing. You contributed one male 50+ paddler and one female 50+ paddler. You found it necessary to post that info????"

Hype???? It appears only to be simply stated fact not hype. In fact maybe it is somebody doing the opposite of hype and pointing out that it was only two GMs. It seems you are too sensitive to what comes out of Tampa, did their team whup yours?

Nope. I'm just tired of all the hype about the Tampa teams on this forum. Seriously, who have they beaten?

Why are you Canadians so sensitive?

what made you think that ,that, previous poster is canadian?.maybe,he is also from tampa that is just sick and tired of reading about posts about paddlers from tampa?

I guess you chased off most the the philly & CA paddlers from this forum long ago! Now you are attacking Fl paddlers.

Posters stating facts should not be attacked.

Facts sometimes are just hype. In the Tampa case, it clearly is. You don't even see the Philly people posting here exactly how many of their paddlers made the U.S. national teams.

Maybe because for Philly paddlers its "been there dont that" whereas for Tampa and Florida its a new and proud accomplishment. We've only been in the sport for 6 - 7 years.

Tampa area and Florida in general should be proud of what they have accomplished, to have members as part of the national team no matter what level means you are doing something right. Congrats!

For the most part, they're subs taking the spot of other paddlers who were going to be subs but didn't want to be subs. So some spots were opened up. It'll be a cool trip though.

Probably if someone funded the Canadian National team and they didn;'t have to pay their own ways w/o much support then you would see 1 stinkin fast open team.There are so many very talented male paddlers in Canada that the team would be awesome but they chose not to go because they want their way paid

How is the Canadian Open team in any way related to this thread?

Because the general consensus amongst all the Canadian trolls on this forum is that Canada HAS to be better than the US in dragonboat in every way. If the results show otherwise then well, there must be some unfair advantage going on there!

Honestly though, on a different note Canada has a huge advantage over the US clubs in that there is much more availability of experienced coaches. A lot of US clubs are coached by just more dedicated paddlers within the club, not someone with years of flatwater experience or former olympian status. That is probably why the overall level of competition in Canada is a bit higher. Makes a huge different in my opinion...

The Philly team raises money to fund the U.S. Premier Open team -- that's a BIG reason why they can be so competitive. Instead of waiting around for someone to fund the Canadian team, the clubs that typically feed the nation team with paddlers should be fundraising.

"The Philly team raises money to fund the U.S. Premier Open team -- that's a BIG reason why they can be so competitive."

Yeah, but they do so illegally because they claim to have a world record when there are no world records in dragon boat on their web site so they should give all the money back as it was obtained with false advertising. That would be the right thing to do! This way the US team would suck and the US based Philly haters could then go on this forum and point out how bad the US squad is because the only thing that gives them pleasure in life is to see Philly or the US team slip up. And you thought Canada's teams had some problems with lack of support from the home front!

The last post is silly.

Philly was able to pay for its Sydney premier team by raising money -- and that was obviously before any claim to a "world record" happened.

I was getting depressed reading posts on the other threads that were attacking successful local dragon boat groups such as GWN, Lively Dragons, Mayfair, Big Fish, CSDC, etc., all anonymously, and usually for the stupidest (and often unfounded) reasons.

Now that I see that the U.S. dragonboat community is just as petty and prone to attack successful people and organizations (anonymously, of course), I feel much better. It isn't just Canadians that can be so stupid and petty... it must just be a world wide dragonboat thing.

It's got nothing to do with nationality or the DB community. You're going to get trolls anytime you have a completely anonymous forum - period. Doesn't matter what the community/interest group, as long as people can post whatever they want without fear of being identified, you will get flame wars and petty comments. Don't pin this on US or Canadian people or the DB community in general.

Seems to be mostly Canadian jealously over US men's premier winning the Nation's Cup in Sydney. We all will have to see what happens in Prague. A team will win, other teams will lose. Maybe USA, maybe some other country.

Correcting mis-statements made by previous posters and providing facts is just that - clarifying facts.

Seriously doubt it is Canadian jealousy, the obvious suspects are from the US and more specifically the break off group from Philly as evidenced on other threads where they showed their true colors.

This may come as a surprise, but from a DB perspective at least, we Canadians don't spend a lot of time thinking about things South of the border.

Really. At all.

"Seriously doubt it is Canadian jealousy, the obvious suspects are from the US and more specifically the break off group from Philly as evidenced on other threads where they showed their true colors."

Guess again. Here's a hint: even after winning the Nations Cup in 2007, the U.S. head coach was barely voted in as coach in 2008, by a margin of 7-6. Of the 7 "for" votes, 6 were from his Philly paddlers anyway. Of the 6 "against" votes, only 2 were from the break-off group from Philly. The other 4 "against" votes came from coaches from other parts of the U.S. There are more than just former Philly paddlers who have issues with him, but his disciples like to spin any opposition to him as coming from one small group. Far from it.

"Guess again. Here's a hint: even after winning the Nations Cup in 2007, the U.S. head coach was barely voted in as coach in 2008, by a margin of 7-6. Of the 7 "for" votes, 6 were from his Philly paddlers anyway. Of the 6 "against" votes, only 2 were from the break-off group from Philly. The other 4 "against" votes came from coaches from other parts of the U.S. There are more than just former Philly paddlers who have issues with him, but his disciples like to spin any opposition to him as coming from one small group. Far from it."


Would the USA have been better off electing Blundetto as head coach? Seeing that he fled to USACK and that his only winning entries for Prague in the youth and youth mixed fell apart one would wonder if those 4 other coaches still think their vote for him was smart.

As the Head Coach, has he fulfilled the promises of the new USACK organization? Are they competing right now in Ulsan at the ICF Club Crew world championships (see below)? (or were they lying about that:))

From Dragon Boat USA web site:

In July 2009, ICF will have
a club championship race in Ulsan, South Korea and the World Games in
Kaoshung, Taiwan. Even on short notice, we will participate to show
USACKs enthusiasm and competitiveness through Dragon Boat USA.
I am confident that we will earn the respect from the paddling world.

Best wishes to all the paddlers.

Dr. Howard Chen
Chairman

No... Blundetto would have clearly been a worse choice.
That doesn't mean that Bob is a good choice.

Believe me - there are a lot of US paddlers from areas far away from Philly who hate BOTH these douchebags. As far as many of us are concerned - US DB would be better off if Philly dropped into a giant sinkhole.

what is the reasoning behind you thinking he is not a good choice?

"US DB would be better off if Philly dropped into a giant sinkhole."

Interesting statement, US wins the Nations Cup and you think you would be better off without the center that supplied the core of the team, the funding and the coach? So far it looks like they are the only club that not only seeks outside help but also funds it.

I suppose you have a plan for filling in the void, let's hear how the US would reach the pinnacle without Philly. Lay it out there, give us your plan.