Looks like a good group. Let the games begin!

Please list the teams because not all of us have received the 2009 racebook and is not available on the website.

The Race Book is available now.

Are the Hyroblades or any other Florida teams coming? We need to end the endless hype machine coming from there!

wow talk about lopsided heats - morning has Scotia, afternoon has everyone else!

HA, you are on some good drugs... I saw the pickering times, we are not ready for Canada. Maybe in another 8 years or so. Plus, it is sooo expensive to make that trip, we can either go to one Canada race or 2 out of state races plus the 4 in state races. Its not worth going somewhere if the whole team cannot go you know?

I second what Eli is saying! No point going to a regatta that far if you know you are going to get run over!

HAHA, That was a gooooood one, nice twist. Actually we voted on the races to attend this year and Toronto was on the list. Next year, it will get more votes.

what are good races to to attend in Canada?

I'm glad you enjoyed my humoUr.

montreal july
gwn in september

havent been out west before - i cant say.

Ottawa , Sudbury

Ottawa in June, GWN Challenge in September. Fantastic events and top niche competition.

Premier Mixed Championship
1. Mayfair
2. CSDC
3. Hydros
4. Big Fish
5. Hammerheads
6. Hanalei

*I expect New College and Saints to put in a decent fight for the championship but fall just short.

Sports Women:
1. National
2. Alliance
3. Senior

University:
1. New College
2. Vic
3. UC Water
4. shrug

Sports Open: Alliance I/II? Who're Shaka? And any inside on Pirhanas?
Junior: Mustangs

Beyond that I don't really care to guess for the other divisions and specialty cups.

The easy ones

Mayfair
CSDC
Hydros

After that it gets a little tougher

Big Fish
Piranhas
Hammerheads
Hanalei
Saints

Dark Horse

Oh My God, Ponies!


PS.....I don't think Scotia McLeod is the Scotia team we saw in Pickering.

Top 3 belongs to:
Mayfair
CSDC
Hydros

Next 2 belongs to:
Big Fish
Hammerheads

Last spot can belong to:
Hanalei
New College
Blades

All based on Pickering observations.

Piranhas have suffered a huge turnover (I heard only a few people from last year stuck around) and currently dealing with attendance issues. I don't think they anywhere close to A this year.

The A final:
1. Mayfair
2. CSDC
3. Hydros
4. Hammerheads
5. Piranhas
6. Big Fish

Premier Mixed A
1. Mayfair
2. CSDC
3. Hydrophobic Dragons
4. Big Fish
5. Hammerheads
6. Hanalei

Premier Mixed B
1. WRCC Rouge
2. Piranhas
3. New College
4. Blades
5. Saints
6. Victoria College

Quelques equipes qui peuvent atteindre un couloir dans le final "B" -

Old Skuld
Riptide
BMO First Dragons
University College

Vous pouvez apporter ces predictions a la banque!

Mayfair will win again, what else is new, this is getting way too cliche.
When will Mayfair finally lose a race/regatta? Who's going to step up to topple them?

Apparently 12:32 has never heard of FRCC...

Yes, FRCC can topple Mayfair but in Ontario. Mayfair dominates.

Mayfair has had a solid program for years and so now they keep attracting the top paddlers in the city as a result of this. Combined with Jim's guidance, the team cannot be matched. The dimensions of each paddler on Mayfair are common. Tall, big and strong. Both genders.

What has to happen to close this gap is for these top paddlers to stop jumping to this team. The teams below Mayfair need to begin to hold onto their strong paddlers and recruit like Mayfair.

I'm not saying this is easy cause god knows teams have been trying for years but wouldn't it be cool to be the team to beat Mayfair consistently. Hydros have come close in recent years.

I have nothing against Mayfair because I wish I had the talent to paddle in that boat but Nobody likes dynasties for too long. They all must come to an end and it would be better off if other teams step it up as opposed to the end coming by way of Mayfair paddlers just retiring.

So paddlers start being ambitious within your own boat. But again the other 20 have to be of the same mindset. This is what sets Mayfair apart. Not one weak link in that chain.

FCRCC

not FRCC

But I know what you mean.

Mayfair don't recruit.
You might be asked to replace a paddler that has left as long as you fit
the criteria - training for a National Team, Tall, Fit, built like an ox.

A Final
Mayfair
CSDC
Hydrophobics
WRCC Rouge
Big fish
Hanelei


B Final
Blades
New college
Hammerheads
St. Joseph's Saints
Piranhas
Riptide


C Final
Vic College
Wahoos
Old Skul'd
Wavecutters
BMO
UC Waterdragons



Oh my god, Ponies! sounds like another alias name that the Mofos would race under in which case slot them behind the Piranhas.

Piranhas just ahead of Riptide, can't see that happening. Because that would mean they really would've fallen off, say it ain't so Rob! And the last thing we need to hear is more of the Riptide will not be denied (TM) stuff!

Mofos should not be the Ponies, Ponies raced last year at the Islands. Wonder what team name the Mofos will show up under, and for that matter why aren't they showing up as Mofos anymore? Mofos were a fun group to praise and/or bash, this alias name guessing is just lame.

When did FC beat Mayfair?

NTT's last year was syndicate racing not club crews, east vs west...correct?

FCRCC beat Mayfair and the Dragon Beasts by a bit over a second in the 500 m A final @ last year's Nationals. The results are posted somewhere on this forum.

Is that the same raceoff that FCRCC couldn't make into the A-Final for the 200m and came in 3rd in the 2km?

National Championships were a Club Crew event, they did the Syndicate race-off's the day before. In the syndicate races mixed went to FCRCC, women's uncontested to Toronto, open to Eastern Canada conglomerate.

At the Club Crews, in prem. mixed Mayfair won the 200m (partially due to FCRCC steering error & subsequent Time Penalty, dropping them to the "B" final), and FCRCC won the 500m, and the Beasts won 2k.

I think that was it, correct me if I'm wrong.

FRC lost the club crews. So what if they won 1 race against Mayfair....Mayfair still came out ahead of them.

So yes, no one has beaten Mayfair in a long time, including FRC.

Lets flip some percepective here to get the juices flowing:

- Mayfair won the 200m (partially due to Mayfair NOT making a steering error & NOT a subsequent Time Penalty).
Besides Mayfair had the fastest 200m times all day (half to 1 second faster than the pack in each race). Significant for a short distance. Probably didn't matter who made it into the A-Final.

- Beasts won the 2k (partially due to Beasts NOT making a steering error & NOT a subsequent Time Penalty).
Beasts were 4 seconds ahead of Mayfair and 8 seconds ahead of FCRCC.

At the end of the day the results were:
500m: FCRCC, Mayfair, Beasts
200m: Mayfair, Beasts, Chiros (?)
2km: Beasts, Mayfair, FCRCC

Mayfair won the Regatta and the "Best Club Crew in Canada" title based on points.

Did Mayfair beat False Creek or did False Creek just shoot themselves in the foot? Let's re-open this can-o-fun!

At the end of the day, Mayfair's name is at the top of that National Championship. It's irrelevant what FCRC did. They lost, Mayfair beat them, that's all that matters.

Mayfair vs FC

Stop hijacking the Island predictions

Sad when the ex-mofo's start jumping all over the forum with Mayfair comments.
Keep to this years Island predictions.

Assuming:
a)"Scotia McLeod Fixed Floaters" have nothing to do with Scotia Rouge (or Scotia Momentum - as they called themselves this year in Pickering);
b) The MOFOs aren't there under some alias nobody knows of;
c) "Victoria College Paddling Club" is not "ViCrew", who surprised and raced 2:10 last year to make the C division out of nowhere;

Then the top 30 should be as follows:

A Division
1) Mayfair
2) CSDC
3) Hydrophobic
4) Piranhas
5) Hammerheads
6) Big Fish

B Division
1) Hanalei
2) New College
3) The Blades
4) The Saints
5) Riptide
6) BMO

C Division
1) UC Waterdragons
2) Wahoos
3) Wave Cutters
4) Phoenix Warriors
5) Old Skuld
6) Iron Dragons

D Division
1) NY Wall Street
2) Paddlers Anonymous
3) DBCB Drachenfurie
4) Lets Sink Together
5) Smoke on the Water
6) Rye-D-Boat

E Division
1) Oh My God, Ponies
2) Maki Catta
3) UofT Scartan
4) TD/CT
5) Liquid Assets
6) Water Vipers

The one thing that's for sure is that it doesn't matter how good you are at predicting, it is impossible to be 100% accurate without a certain amount of luck:
Teams 1-3 above should finish that way, but then 4-7 is a virtual toss-up between Piranhas, Hanalei, Big Fish, and Hammerheads. Another toss-up happens 8-11 between UC, Saints, Blades, and if Milton is any indication, also Riptide. The race for 12-19 should be the closest between the Waterdragons, BMO, Old Skul'd, Wahoos, Wave Cutters, Phoenix Warriors, and to a certain point maybe also Iron Dragons and NY Wall Street. Might as well flip a coin to decide the next 15 or so teams!!!

Good job on predicting up till E division.

Way cool! Oh My God Ponies! Great name! Anyone know how they got that name?

Impressive predicting all the way to E division.

Anyone know if zee Germans are coming back? They were an awesome group of people!

They're not listed in the race book (the Germans)... The Trinidad team isn't either... The only "international" teams are from the States (NY Wall Street / Drachenfurie) and Maki Catta, LST, and Phoenix Warriors - from Montreal (I guess they did separate and nobody told me!).

International teams are always hard to predict, are they bringing their best paddlers or only those that want to make the trip. So I have to leave them out for now, but I think Mofos will be making an appearance:

A Final
1. Preds
2. CSDC
3. Hydros
4. Big Fish
5. Hanalei
6. Hammerheads

B Final
1. Piranhas
2. New College
3. WRCC
4. Blades
5. Saints
6. Mofos

C Final
1. Riptide
2. BMO
3. UC
4. Wahoos
5. Old Skuld
6. Wave Cutters

A Division
1) Mayfair - Well duh. Maybe we can hope for a broken steering oar during one of their heats?
2) CSDC - Next best
3) Hydrophobic
4) Rouge - I think this is Scotia Rouge.

5-8 is a toss up
5) Hanalei - Maybe something went wrong in Pickering? I'm giving them a chance to prove it here.
6) Piranhas - First real test for these guys. We'll finally get a chance to see where they slot in.


B Division
7) Hammerheads
8) Big Fish
9) New College
10) The Blades
11) The Saints
12) Riptide

A Final
1. Mayfair
2. ADBC - CSDC
3. Hyrdophobic
4. Piranhas DBC
5. Big Fish
6. Hanalei

B Final
1. Hammerheads
2. The Saints
3. The Blades
4. New College New Dragons
5. Vic College
6. Wahoos

C Final
1. Old Skul'd
2. BMO
3. Riptide DBC
4. Waterdragons
5. Iron Dragons
6. Wave Cutters

According to the TIDBRF's website, the "final" race book is posted and I can't find the MOFOs anywhere on it. Does anybody have any actual information that may suggest they're going (and if so, under what name)?

i think they ARE missing a few teams

highly doubt piranhas will crack A, never mind 4th overall

same as June 15 2009, 3:34

except for the following subs:

Hammerheads up to A final 6th overall, Fish and Hanalei move up
Pirhanas down to B FTW
Vic College to 4th in B
New College to 5th in B
Wahoos down to C (does it really matter where?)
UC up to B in 6th

Just saw the updated Race Book... MOFOS are in (surprisingly under their own name). I also missed Victoria College the first time, and Welland helped clear a lot of questions about Piranhas. Also, it seems that WRCC Rouge is Scotia... Therefore the new (revised) top 30 team prediction is:

A Division
1) Mayfair
2) CSDC
3) Hydrophobic
4) Rouge
5) Hammerheads
6) Big Fish

B Division
1) Hanalei
2) New College
3) The Blades
4) MOFOS
5) Piranhas
6) The Saints

C Division
1) Riptide
2) Victoria College
3) BMO
4) UC Waterdragons
5) Wahoos
6) Wave Cutters

D Division
1) Old Skuld
2) Phoenix Warriors
3) Iron Dragons
4) NY Wall Street
5) Paddlers Anonymous
6) DBCB Drachenfurie

E Division
1) Lets Sink Together
2) Smoke on the Water
3) TD/CT
4) Rye D-Boat
5) Oh My God, Ponies
6) Maki Catta

A Division
1) Mayfair
2) CSDC
3) Hydrophobic
4) Rouge
5) Big Fish
6) Hammerheads

B Division
1) New College
2) Hanalei
3) The Blades
4) Piranhas
5) The Saints
6) DBCB Drachenfurie

C Division
1) Victoria College
2) Riptide
3) Wahoos
4) MOFOS
5) Old Skuld
6) Wave Cutters

D Division
1) UC Waterdragons
2) BMO
3) Phoenix Warriors
4) Iron Dragons
5) NY Wall Street
6) Paddlers Anonymous

updated race book on website or through email?

email... I believe the website hasn't been updated yet.

Are GWN involved this year at all or strictly NDC?

Buk or SRS boats at the Islands?

June 11 2009, 3:28 PM

Silly person !!! You're just trying to stir the **** up .



Why don't you ask the Mayfair paddlers that came out west a few weeks ago to try out for Prague open team (FCRCC).Ask them how they did against FCRCC paddlers solo then ask them who they think would win between Mayfair & FCRCC ,I think you might be surprised at the answer .

My understanding is that they did very well and will all be on the premiere open team for Prague. Is that not correct?

I'm sure that Mayfair, FCRCC, and the Beasts would all love the chance to race head to head again. We'll see Mayfair and the Beasts racing at the sport regatta in July.

Excellent way to deflect the question.
My guess is the Mayfair paddlers did okay - not as good as the FCRCC.
In either case we have two crews making up the National Team.

Incorrect! All the paddlers will be in Prague representing Canada in one way or another! All the other second tier dragonboat teams will be fighting it out! (No second tier is not a derogatory term... second to False Creek, Mayfair and Dragon Beats would be an honour to me)

I highly doubt Kamini would appreciate you posting this divisive bull**** on a public forum. Grow up and regardless of where they come from and let's hope Team Canada does well. Whoever has the chip on their shoulder or insecurity about their team's performance then grow up.

We're all on the same ****ing team.

Are you referring to the other Club Crews that the Beasts, Mayfair or FCRCC race against as "Second Tier"
or the other National Teams you will be racing against in Prague.

Either way this just shows the lack of respect and class you have for other competitors in
this sport.

"In either case we have two crews making up the National Team"

and thats exactly how a National Team should be ,made from paddlers from all over the country that have proven their ability to earn a seat

New racebook is posted on the website.

Looks like the newly added teams got slotted into the Women's race.

"and thats exactly how a National Team should be ,made from paddlers from all over the country that have proven their ability to earn a seat"

Or you take a great group of flatties and throw them in a boat as was done in the past. Will there be any of them in the Premier? Kamini has that background did she recruit any of them?

take paddlers from all over the country ?
correction - take paddlers from three crews so it appears they are from all over the country.

Let's call a spade a spade here. What teams out there can come close to False Creek, Mayfair or Dragonbeasts? Hydro sniffed briefly but still are a full boat away from them. Sudbury is the closest thing but have never really challenged. So yes, Those three teams are currently the cream of the crop, everyone else is in a different class. If you can prove me different, then do so. Like I said, I still have immense respect for all those other teams, I wish I could be in their league. Maybe in a few more years...

Get this crap off this thread. This is a thread about the island race and predictions for it. Take this Mayfair, FCRCC, Beasts crap somewhere else.

There was a time when Mayfair paddlers didn't bleat about who they beat
and how second class other teams were - do you paddle for the warriors or predators.

I count at least 5 crews buddy.

My apologies. Let's continue this debate on another thread.

I predict lots and lots of rain to make Saturday crap.

Hope it doesn't turn out like last year's Nationals. Fricken mudhole!

Whats up with the new racebook? MOFOS Vixens in Womens sport? They even have WRCC rouge racing 3 times and also in Womens sport.

Looks like its going to be a rainy weekend of racing. Hopefully wind picks up and quickly get the rain out of the way early.

Does anyone know what boats are being used at the Islands, Buk or SRS?

http://www.google.com/search?q=toronto+weather&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a


NICE

Rain both days

gwn doing the festival, so i guess buks

GWN is confirmed as running this festival again and not NDC (Blake)?

The latest weather forcast: Rain on Saturday, sunny on Sunday...

I just hope that whatever happens on Saturday is consistent for the whole day in order for times to be fair (especially with some teams racing only in the moring and others only in the afternoon)... It would be a shame not to have the best six teams in the "A", the next six in the "B", etc. just because the weather changed drastically at some point of the day.

GWN is the supplier.

By the time the race starts on Sunday, it'll be sunny and warm.

Who cares about the weather.

Mayfair
csdc
hydros
rouge
hammerheads
piranhas

hanalei
big fish
new college
saints
Mofos
blades

Premier Mixed A
1. Mayfair - Duh. Unless they pull a FCRCC in a race that is.
2. Alliance CSDC - Tough battle but this is no longer just a group of 40+. The infusion of younger elite paddlers have given them a boost
3. Hydrophobic Dragons - Sure they are slower than last year but they are still faster than almost everyone else.
4. Big Fish - The new champion of the fish wars.
5. Scotia Rouge - They're back. But they won't be as strong as they were in Pickering
6. Piranhas - Sneaks into the big dance in a rebuilding year

Premier Mixed B
1. Hanalei - New coach has made life a little tougher than they are used to
2. Hammerheads - Yet another rebuilding crew.
3. New College - No longer the best university team but still tops in Ontario.
4. Mofos - First showing under its real name. Will lose a tight race with #3 for third.
5. Blades - Strong as usual
6. Saints - Lots of power.

Soothsayer..i think you might have had too much to drink.

GO PIRANHAS!!! YOU GEEKS!!!

Currently - rouge has fastest premier time with 2.10.11

Other crews to come

the wind sucked for those that raced this morning !!! ha ha ha

Seven years of paddling and by far the worst year the Island has ever seen. Slower times from most of the big teams.

I don't chalk up cross wind as an excuse!

If the wind is not an excuse, are you implying that the top teams are not as good anymore???

just taking the ferry across this morning was interesting
not sure who raced in the morning but tough luck for them

The slower times are most likely because of the high paddler turn over this year.

Let's see some finish times

A finalists are....
Seeded
1 Mayfair
2 big fish
3 csdc
4 hanalei
5 hydrophobic dragons
6 piranhas

Morning recap:

Rouge was the best team of the morining, but not by far... I'm not sure of their second time but I think they put up a couple of 2:10's... Wave Cutters surprised to sit second after the first races with a high-2:12 (in the same heat as Rouge's first race) but did a 2:15 in their second race... The Saints had a slow first race (almost 2:14) but recovered and put up a mid-2:11 in their second race... BMO raced in the first race of the morning (in lane 1) and did a mid-2:13 but for whatever reason didn't race with a full boat in their second race and put up another 2:13 (they were missing at least one person from what I saw)... I think the Iron Dragons raced a 2:15 in their first race but I didn't catch their second time... Boston's Drachenfurie didn't race with a full boat either (I think they were missing a whole seat of paddlers in their first race).

So, strictly out of memory, I believe the morning teams ended: Rouge (averaging 2:10 and change), Saints (roughly a couple of seconds behind), BMO (about half a second behind), Wave Cutters (another half a second behind).

Any indication of what the afternoon times looked like?

If Big Fish did indeed edge CSDC, then good for them!

slower times were because of paddle turnover ??
WRCC 2:10's with the crappiest weather seen at the island in years
and you think it was all about turnover !!

It's posted... times aren't up yet, but tomorrow's lineup is. The top teams are (in order of ranking, NOT by lanes):

A Division:
1) Mayfair
2) Big Fish
3) CSDC
4) Hanalei
5) Hydrophobic
6) Piranhas

B Division:
1) The Blades
2) Hammerheads
3) New College
4) MOFOS
5) Rouge
6) Victoria College

C Division:
1) The Saints
2) Waterdragons
3) BMO
4) Wahoos
5) Old Skul'd
6) Wave Cutters

A Division:
1) Mayfair: 1:59+, 1:59+
2) Big Fish 2:03+, 2:03+,
3) CSDC 2:03+, 2:03+,
4) Hanalei 2:03+, 2:04+,
5) Hydrophobic 2:03+, 2:04+,
6) Piranhas 2:09+, 2:03+,

B Division:
1) The Blades 2:08+, 2:08+,
2) Hammerheads 2:07+, 2:08+,
3) New College ?
4) MOFOS 2:09+, 2:09+,
5) Rouge ?
6) Victoria College ?

Thank you... It looks like 2-5 was close.

Does anybody have the rest of the times?

Prediction:
A Final: Mayfair (to much power in the boat)
B Final: WRCC Rouge (this time wind will be no factor)
C Final: Saints (same issue as Rouge)

Am I the only one noticing this?

The Piranhas went from 2:09 to 2:03? WTF? How does anyone shave 6 seconds off? Did something happen in the first race?

Wow..i noticed this too. I looked into the matter and found the answer:

Alan Leung.

Outside of Mayfair, there is a surprising amount of parity. Everyone is within 2:03-2:04.

So Anonymous
Re: Island Predictions June 20 2009, 12:38 AM
Soothsayer..i think you might have had too much to drink.


You must feel foolish now.. Soothsayer almost had it bang on.. at least for the A final...

Good job for those in the A finals... everyone's going to have a fun time catching Mayfair. I predict that it's just going to an arrow going down the course. Mayfair will hit 1:58 and the other teams will get 2:01+

And what did happen with the huge disparity between the 1st and 2nd time for the Piranhas? That's a pretty insane jump.. I guess we couldn't count them out afterall.

not sure what happened before mid-day, but some crews had the advantage
of being in heats with good crews - others were on their own.
Pirahnas could have been the victim of the early morning headwind ?
How do you explain Rouge doing a 2:10 twice, yet in Pickering they
went 2:05 and 2:07.
TCBA really should put all the "seeded crews" into the same time slot
so they encounter the same crews and same weather conditions.

I've gotta give credit to Rob. As much as we all counted the Piranhas out, there they are again. Well done.

Not just the Piranhas mixed team, their Open team (I'm not sure if I recall seeing some females in the boat?) were quite impressive and came a very close second in the Open Heat. And no, I'm not a Piranha.

Are you kidding about Piranhas Open? They barely squeaked out second to Alliance 2 and.. who the hell is shaka? I saw the boat, and they aren't RTF... I think Piranhas need to pick it up

Anonymous June 20 2009, 10:12 PM

Looks like someone's a little jealous..

Shaka is a strong Open team coached by Stephen Kwok, who placed respectably second in Pickering Open, after the Seniors (or can we still call them that now that they are stacked with non-Seniors??). If the little fishies can beat Shaka, then they are good. They had an incredible strong finish that they would have beatened the Seniors/non-Seniors if the race was 20m longer!!

"I've gotta give credit to Rob. As much as we all counted the Piranhas out, there they are again. Well done."

Rob, is that you?

HAHAHA 11:03PM

Mayfair wins, but not by as much as we probably expected...

Mayfair: 1:59.08
Alliance CSDC : 1:59.67
Big Fish: 2:00.99
Hydros: 2:02.99
Hanalei: 2:04.97
Pirahnas: 2:05.46

Best prediction was at June 15 2009, 3:34 PM:

A Final
1. Mayfair
2. ADBC - CSDC
3. Hyrdophobic
4. Piranhas DBC
5. Big Fish
6. Hanalei


That was the only prediction that got all 6 finalists correct.

Congrats once again to Mayfair! The Seniors gave them a scare, and Big Fish is back with a vengeance!

"Rob... is that you?"

Why does everyone talk or care about Rob Chang and his piranhas on this forum? I'm sure there are other equally interesting coaches to talk about...the piranhas have been on and off for years....they build, improve, then they have massive turnover...blahblah

5:50,

Rob, is that you?

OK. Piranhas Open was impressive. Kudos for them whipping some butts today. I suppose Shaka really isn't that fantastic... is Lane 1,2 really a handicap or do they just not have it?

Little fishies were looking more like little "red" fishies out there.

@ 5:50 PM

I agree, but what I don't get is why do the Piranhas always have to be referred to with Rob in the equation? When commenting on other teams, ppl don't go "good job Jim, Mayfair really dominates because of you". They just say things like "Mayfair shocked everyone with their sub 2:00 finish".

Bottom line, the coach is not the direct result of success on the team. Each paddler puts their all to paddle hard and the coach compliments that. Without a good bunch, the coach can do nothing and vice versa

Nevertheless, good job to every team out there this weekend!

Mayfair: 1:59.08
Alliance CSDC : 1:59.67
Big Fish: 2:00.99
Hydros: 2:02.99
Hanalei: 2:04.97
Pirahnas: 2:05.46

Times for the first three don't make sense to me. Big Fish looked like they were a lot closer to the seniors than the seniors were to Mayfair!

Yet the times say seniors were only 0.59 seconds behing Mayfair, and Big Fish were 1.32 seconds behing the seniors?? Seniors were about half a boat behind Mayfair. There is no way that Big Fish were more than twice as far behind the Seniors!

Good racing everyone!

The CSDC Open boat were totally out of sync and deserved to lose to the Pirahnas. Maybe this "Alliance" is not it's all cracked up to be.

Good job by the CSDC Mixed boat, though. They really gave Mayfair a run for the money!

Premier Final A - lane in ()
1. Mayfair - 1:59.08 (4)
2. Alliance CSDC - 1:59.67 (5)
3. Big Fish - 2:00.99 (3)
4. Hydros - 2:02.99 (6)
5. Hanalei - 2:04.97 (2)
6. Piranhas - 2:05.46 (1)

Premier Final B
1. WRCC Rouge - 2:04.69 (6)
2. New College New Dragons - 2:05.37 (5)
3. The Blades - 2:05.76 (4)
4. Hammerheads - 2:06.44 (3)
5. MOFOs - 2:07.20 (2)
6. Victoria College - 2:09.29 (1)

Premier Final C
1. Old Skul'd - 2:07.94 (6)
2. The Saints - 2:08.08 (2)
3. BMO First Dragons - 2:08.24 (5)
4. UC Waterdragons - 2:09.13 (3)
5. Wave Cutters - 2:11.06 (1)
6. Wahoos - 2:11.46 (2)

Premier Final D
1. Riptides - 2:10.50 (3)
2. Rye-D-Boat - 2:11.50 (4)
3. MIDBRF Phoenix Warriors - 2:11.68 (2)
4. U of T Scartan - 2:14.42 (5)
5. Rotman Liquid Assets - 2:15.78 (6)
6. KRG Insurance - 2:17.52 (1)
-----------
Community Final A
1. Mayfair - 1:58.90 (4)
2. Alliance CSDC - 2:00.50 (5)
3. Big Fish - 2:01.09 (3)
4. Hydros - 2:02.10 (6)
5. Piranhas - 2:07.66 (1)
6. Hanalei - 2:07.83 (2)

Outside lanes looked favourable for some reason.

I hope that was sarcasm, clearly a trend with losing on lane 1.

Piranhas open was incredible, they brought it to the table and delivered it.

"ppl don't go "good job Jim, Mayfair really dominates because of you".

That's not entirely true. Lots have been said about how great Jim is as a coach. Many believe he is the best. The reason why coaches like Rob (among others) get brought up is because we know they aren't getting hand picked people. Developing an A level paddler is way harder than it is to recruit one. If the little fishes really did have massive turnover, it is impressive to see them in the A final and dominate the men's race.

"Piranhas open was incredible, they brought it to the table and delivered it"

Not so much Piranhas delivering as it was CSDC not bringing their "A" Game. CSDC Open need to get focused and it will all come together for them.

Lane 1 - do we have to hear this all over again.
The Results seem fairly predictable.

"D" final looks fairly even - no lanes seem to be favored.
"C" Final Lane 6 wins, but only by a squeaker.
Saints left it too late to BMO and Old Skul'd
"B" Final - Scotia wins, but should have been in "A"
(bad race draw and wind saturday morning)
"A" Final - Big Fish..welcome to the Party. Great weekend.
Mayfair - well duh, they should have won and CSDC went after them.
Hydro's look like they found a little of their previous form.

"CSDC not bringing their "A" Game"

1:56 is not bringing your "A" game? That's about a 4 second improvement from the previous day and the tiem gap between the A and B teams stayed the same too. Times from yesterday and today were about the same if you didn't race in the morning. Mayfair posted about the same time on both days.

"If the little fishies can beat Shaka, then they are good. They had an incredible strong finish that they would have beatened the Seniors/non-Seniors if the race was 20m longer!!"

Sure, had the little fishies had another 20 metres, they would have beaten the seniors in Pickering. So shall they make the races 520 m from now on just for them? Give me a break pal. The Seniors will not lose a race in the finish. And as far as the Seniors/Non-Seniors comment? They have 3 under 40 paddlers for their Open boat this year, who don't race in all mixed races, and have a large contingent of 40 somethings, probably half a dozen 8-10 50+ and even a 63 year old. So you don't think the "Senior" Category fits them? CSDC competes and trains hard, don't knock this respected and very experienced team.

Hey guy above. I think you got mixed up. Shaka was in Pickering and Island. Little fishies were just at the island. Besides, you're responding to a post a day old and things have happened since then. And no one is disrespecting CSDC here. They're one of the very best in Canada

"Piranhas open was incredible, they brought it to the table and delivered it"

"Not so much Piranhas delivering as it was CSDC not bringing their "A" Game. CSDC Open need to get focused and it will all come together for them"

at 11:21pm

You just dont know when credit is due, piranhas gave all they have and so did both alliances. Nobody paid $500 and dick around.
Where was your team? oh thats right watching from the shore...

Well said

That must be your teams excuse when you dont win the race huh "we didnt bring the A game".

Close final for mayfair, but they have once dominated again.

Agreed. Mayfair is still the best. Surprisingly close though given their history of dominance. And to the poster two above, I seriously doubt a CSDC paddler is making excuses for their open race performance. They raced very well. They just happened to be beaten. No shame in that.

Alliance losing to a Piranhas-Scotia team is not a bad thing... I mean they posted up a 1:54! All the open teams had a great run that heat!

I agree with the previous thread the top 4 teams had sub 2 minute times. I think thats pretty impressive. But to keep referring to the team that one as the piranhas is inaccurate. It was half piranhas half rouge. They just registered at the island as piranhas.

Above poster speaks the truth. And btw Rob Chang, plz stop responding to your own posts.

Oh and respect your elders! CSDC good job!

The topic of Piranhas is interesting, they had quite the wide varying times, are they really that inconsistent or are timing issues at play. Someone said earlier 6 second difference on day 1, and really didn't challenge in their division in day 2.

How about this for parity? Less than 2 seconds separating 1st and 3rd in the A final (Mayfair, CSDC, and Big Fish), just about a second between first and third in the B final (Rouge, New College, and The Blades), and only 0.3 seconds separating the first three in the C final (Old Skul'd, The Saints and BMO First Dragons). And the first 16 teams in this year's festival all achieved sub 2:10 times in their final (Mayfair-1- through Waterdragons-16-). If this is any indication then we should be in for some great races as the season progresses.

Timing on the A final was clearly off. Mayfair was clearly 1st by about 2 seconds (on my watch anyway) and CSDC and Big Fish were too close to call (.3-.4 seconds difference, again estimate).

One thing that was clear was the Hydros in the ghost lane trying to ride CSDC, and doing it poorly. Seemed to be no time penalties all day unless a boat crashed into another. Ghost lanes = fail, as they get the encroaching boat another metre or 2 closer. Just get rid of them and enforce the rules as per IDBF.

I understand CSDC got a 1 second bonus because Hydro's were riding their wash. Taking away that bonus puts CSDC back with Big Fish.

If CSDC really did get that 1 second bonus, that would explain alot about the times posted and actual race viewing. Though I'm not sure about giving a team a time bonus, the offending team should just be penalised.

If indeed this is the case, that Hydros received a 1 sec penalty, it should have been confirmed by race officials.

I don't know about awarding a team a 1 second bonus. What if Big Fish crossed the line first by .3 seconds? And then officials granted CSDC a 1 second bonus? I agree that teams should be punished, not awarded.

This is interesting. Isn't it true that if a team rides wash, then the lead boat is actually slowed somewhat? If so, adding time actually makes sense.

Wash riding seems unavoidable at the island. With all that drag you rarely see open water between boats in adjacent lanes.

Seems to me it appears the Big Fish people are trying to justify it being closer than it really was between them and CSDC. Scorekeeping was consistent throughout the festival and time penalties/additions were clearly marked. Nothing was noted for the final. Suck it up Big Fish, you had a minichoke dropping from second to third. Deal with it.

Where were time penalties/additions clearly marked? There is nothing noted for any races on the online results. Big Fish and CSDC crossed the line almost at the same time. If you think that can happen with a one and a half second time difference, then you need to get more experience in the sport.

Time penalties were marked on the scoreboard. There were several.

You know, I have been anxiously waiting for someone to trash us after this weekend. Thank you, you made my morning!

The Seniors beat us fair and square, time penalty or time bonus be damned. They got us two for three on the weekend and in both races that really counted. Congrats CSDC! You earned it.

Congratulations also to Mayfair on another repeat victory. That team continues to lead the way in Southern Ontario. I always look forward to watching this team race, and for once we got to do it IN THE SAME RACE! An honour and a priviledge.

Finally, congratulations to all our competitors in the "A" final (wow, it's nice to be able to say that again). There was a lot of good sportsmanship shown on and off the water.

Cheers!

the 1s bonus was given to them because they wanted it more.

w.r.t. piranhas, never underestimate the effect of alan leung (so lean, so dark and handsome..same effect as SAM TIRGARI AND NICK MILADINOVIC but different appeal...droool oh yeah...)

i need to find myself a room and a tissue.

monkey boy, after that last post I think you need to go and spank your monkey!

Monkeyboy = Rob Chang now?

Obvious flame bait

"This is interesting. Isn't it true that if a team rides wash, then the lead boat is actually slowed somewhat? If so, adding time actually makes sense."

Yeah while it does make sense to some degree, I still believe you have to punish the offending boat as opposed to rewarding the affected boat. If the offending boat doesn't have any negative consequences, they might as well do it right? Or maybe as a compromise the affected boat gets a small bonus, and the offending boat gets a severe penalty for their respective times.

AND it was a JOKE! Everyone knows I praise the ground D.A.M. walks on. I've slept with him twice.

my dream is two asian male twins plus DAM....and you can imagine the rest..

"Yeah while it does make sense to some degree, I still believe you have to punish the offending boat as opposed to rewarding the affected boat. If the offending boat doesn't have any negative consequences, they might as well do it right? Or maybe as a compromise the affected boat gets a small bonus, and the offending boat gets a severe penalty for their respective times."

wash riding is part of the sport. going out of your lane is not. The solution, while many may see as unjust or overly harsh, is equally obvious: out of lane = DQ.

Once again Ockham's Razor rings true.

There really shouldn't be any sort of bonus given to crews. Imagine a team winning a final because another team was riding them too tightly. There's going to be wash riding no matter what. I don't think the refs should be given the power to decide what is too tight and what isn't and therefore ruin the race for the crews in contention.

I don't wan't this sport to feel like the NBA.

The answer is very simple: Anything is allowed as long as you stay in your lane.

Simple and effective. We have ghost lanes to try to minimize wash riding, plus the other boat can move to the other side of their lane if they want, so as long as every boat rmains within their lane markers, then it shouldn't matter how close they are to one side versus the other. If a steersperson is good enough to ride wash without leaving their lane then they shouldn't be penalized... Similarly, if another steersperson is bad enough to allow their team to be ridden while having the whole width of their lane to move and having the other boat not leave their lane (with a ghost lane in between) then they deserve to be slowed down (and that team may want to seriously consider their choice for cox).

This way we avoid all this "penalty vs. bonus" bull. I agree with the previous post: If you leave your lane, you automatically either get disqualified or have a severe penalty (like 5-10 seconds depending on the extent of the infraction) added to your time.

Baloney. We don't train our butts off to have something like wash-riding decide a race. Wash-riding is NOT part of the sport. It's cheating. Most teams don't do it even if they can get away with it because they don't want to win that way.

it appears as though the link for the results for day 1 is broken. Any idea who to contact to get it fixed?

As a Veteran Piranha, I'd like to thank all those in the A Final for an amazing race! I can't really comment on how the teams looked in the race since I was paddling, but I'd like to give some recognition where it's due.

Mayfair - congrats to yet another well deserved win at the Island. The only team to have sub 2:00 minute times in all your heats! Well done and keep it up.

CSDC - wow! Great work keeping with Mayfair! Great job! Very impressive at 39+ - I hope that I'm as fit when I get there (which isn't too far )

Big Fish - great job big fishies! Way to kick it up again... let the battle of the fishes begin again.. lol

Hydros - way to keep it competitive Hydros. I know you've got a lot more potential in there that is just waiting to be unleashed at the right time.

Hanalei - We thought we had you after the first race of the day.. damn you... lol.. great race. We knew that you wouldn't let it happen again. =)


And for the Open & Women's race, it's a composition of Scotia Rouge+Piranhas. It's a fairly new "alliance" but one that's already showing some success over this weekends festivities.

u guys whine too much. your never satisfied. too bad your crew didnt work harder than the other.

Juniors were more amusing to watch. D finals winner celebrating like they won the A final and no complain.
Sometimes you all ruin the sport of dragon boat and forget the fun part of it.

Re: June 22, 2009 13:27:
"Baloney. We don't train our butts off to have something like wash-riding decide a race. Wash-riding is NOT part of the sport. It's cheating. Most teams don't do it even if they can get away with it because they don't want to win that way."

That's absolutely bull... most teams don't do it because they don't know how and their steersperson isn't good enough to actually pull it off. You never see a hockey player credited with a goal tell the ref that the puck never crossed the line or a baseball baserunner tell the ump he was really out, not safe.

Call it cheating if you want... I consider racing with 13 men cheating, I consider sabotaging another boat cheating... this isn't cheating, this is merely taking advantage of circumstances. No different than teams trying to qualify in certain lanes for the final (as opposed to other lanes) because they are deeper.

Awarding time bonuses, and even penalties for that matter, opens up a HUGE can of worms and puts an enormous burden on judgement calls from the refs. Was that boat wash riding or simply staying left in their lane where the water is deepest? Etc etc etc. Fluid dynamics is way too complicated for race day decisions. The lanes are there for a reason. Anything goes as long as you're in your lane. Going out of your lane gets you penalties or DQ. It's as simple as that, otherwise the whole thing is going to become a joke.

LOL I never even heard of 'bonus' seconds awarded. But you certainly got the Forum rumour mill going!

"That's absolutely bull... most teams don't do it because they don't know how and their steersperson isn't good enough to actually pull it off. You never see a hockey player credited with a goal tell the ref that the puck never crossed the line or a baseball baserunner tell the ump he was really out, not safe."


I know plenty of teams who can wash-ride but refuse to do it. It's an integrity issue.

And your analogies make no sense. Your examples are of athletes who didn't TRY to gain an unfair advantage. Wash-riding is done purposely.

Officials need to penalize any team in any race that wash-rides. Only then will teams stop doing it. Good job by the Island officials!!

There's a difference between discussion (much of which this is) and bitching or complaining.

I highly doubt you have seen a negative comment on here yet from anyone in the "A" final. Most have either paddled for the same team at some point, been coached by or paddled against each other for years and years.

In fact the posts by people from those teams are very easy to spot. They're the ones praising and congratulating everyone they raced against.

Sure they all want to win. So do those in the B, C and H finals for that matter. This doesn't mean that you immediately become a poor sport if you want to discuss a particular topic.

I personally think that the topic of awarding a "Time Bonus" is very much of valid interest if for no other reason than the pure impossibility of making any such penalty accurate based on some assessment of how a team may have been impeded.

Thankfully Alliance beat Big Fish real time regardless of the penalty. I would not want to be on either of those teams if that had not been the case and say Big Fish managed to hang on and just edge out the Alliance. I would imagine that you probably would NOT have seen a Time Bonus added to Alliance in that case simply so that that situation would never have to be explained or justified.

To be fair, from talking to folks it seems obvious that the Alliance had a team practically jump on top of them near the last buoy before the finish and that that team was clearly in the ghost lanes.
Lets separate this discussion a bit from the actual teams in question because it really doesnt matter and this shouldnt turn into a did so-and-so do what and to whom and should they have been penalized or whatever. There are two issues here.

One is, should the team encroaching get penalized. Yes, absolutely. While the benefit they may have gained from the encroachment and violation of rules (IE. Entering the ghost lane/leaving their lane or whatever) is not accurately measurable, a preset penalty that would then in fact only effect them can easily and clearly be written into the rules. You leave your lane, you get a 5 second, 10 second or whatever second penalty that would obviously be harsher than any benefit you could gain.

The second question is much trickier. Should the team than has had their lane violated and or been impeded get compensated somehow for the effect the other team had on them? I think the answer is yes where practical. That sounds crazy, but its one thing to give a team a re-race in a preliminary race in a later heat or even re-racing a Semi or Quarter final as opposed to re-racing a Final or simply subtracting time from their race time.

Right or wrong, you simply will not see Finals re-raced very often unless there is wholesale chaos involving multiple teams and in such a manner as to make the outcome obviously messed up to the point where a re-race is the only fair choice. In this case, offending crew(s) would more than likely be disqualified prior to the re-race.

In the case of one boat incurring a penalty while impeding another boat while no other boats are effected its a lot trickier especially if there is no collision. With a collision you might (MIGHT depending on the effected teams seeding, position in the race at the time of the incident etc, and how many were effected) see the re-race scenario above, but with one boat entering the ghost lane that simply isnt going to happen. For example if the 5th place team where to clip the 2nd place team into the third place team you would probably get a re-race where a collision between the teams currently in 5th and 6th place in the race itself would almost certainly not.

So what about subtracting time from the effected team? Sure sounds good, but the problem is how much time? There is simply no scientific, measurable, accurate and repeatable way to measure how much they were effected and then calculate how much faster their time would have been. While obviously not ideal, having someone try and jump on your wash is simply part of racing. If they go too far they will get penalized, but you are responsible for your boat and like it or not you have the opportunity (within reason and assuming someone doesnt come right in and hit you) to keep yourself clear.
Should it be your responsibility to keep clear of the other guy who cant or wont control his boat? No, but is there any other reasonable and fair way (other than perhaps re-race) to manage that? No, there simply is not at this time.

I would hope that we dont see more of this time bonus stuff. Its simply to random and subjective. If it were to ever effect the placing of a final that would be a huge shame. I guarantee you that none of the teams involved would appreciate it (included the team that benefited) If an organizer feels that a team was impeded to the point where it may have changed their final placing YOU MUST RE-RACE rather than try to judge a time bonus.

Thoughts?

generally, the DBC rules of racing only allow for a time bonus to be applied when a crew is impeded in a 2k, where a re-race is not practical

to June 22 2009, 3:03 PM :
I watched one race where lane 1 who was in second place well ahead of lanes 3 and 4 lost control and veered across the lanes over to lane 4 and eventually finished back in lane 2 pushing lane 2 I think to lane 1. Lane 1 was far enough ahead of the 2 boats so there was no collision but I think lanes 2 and 3 had to slow up a bit to avoid it. Later I checked the board to see what the referees did and lane 1 was penalized 6 seconds. Lanes 2 and 3 received 4 and 2 seconds respectively off their actual times.

Well said above, especially regarding subjectiveness of trying to award time bonus. Time penalty leaving lane should be it. You want to try to get as close to the lane markers as possible, you lose control and cross, you pay.

Steersperson isn't just some random person that can keep the boat straight, they're part of the team as much as the paddlers are. If one team has an advantage in that regard, more power to them. There's a strategy to racing at the highest levels, not just who the 20 best paddlers are on paper.

sorry, I meant "well ahead of lanes 2 and 3".

you might be right that most A division teams do not post on this forum. most have paddled for other A division teams too...is this 'sport' incestuous or what?

Those would be the paddlers with no concept of loyalty.

Let's name some!

In an A Final, if a team goes into the ghost lanes at all, it should be an automatic 5 second penalty. You can't award time to the other team. Every steersperson in that race knows what they are doing, and if a team's in the ghost lane, it's usually on purpose.

If this did happen, then the Hydros should've been given a time penalty. It's fine to ride wash in your own lane, but if you go into the ghost lanes I think a 5 second penalty will make you think twice about doing it again.

"Let's name some!" 3:56 pm

Yes! Let's do that!

I question the motivation for the time bonus:
If the bonus did not affect the overall standings of the team, why was it even necessary for the judges to partake in such a subjective decission?

Every boat leaves a wake. If another boat happens to be on top of this wake, it does not necessarily mean they choose to be in this advantageous position. They just happened to be at the right place at the right time. And as easily as they can fall off the wake, they may just as easily and unwittingly take advantage of the situation. What do you expect a team to do once they happen to be at the perfect wash range - skip a few strokes until they fall off the wash, and start paddling afterwards? That sounds a bit silly. I personally believe teams can't help being put in an advantageous situation as being on top of a wash. It is the nature of the sport, unless the A Final's happen in 500m trough's.

In the case of the A-final, to my knowledge the Hydro's did not receive a penalty. To me that implies that the judges did not note them to be explicitly cheating. The were probably caught maximized their opportunity. Similarly, could an argument not be made that CSDC and BF both experienced an advantageous situation alongside Mayfair, even though they may not have explicitly choosen to be in such an advantageous situation?

I have been with the same team ever since I started (9 years). I've seen the team go up and down. I've thought about going to other teams, but I stayed for my own reasons. Sometimes the time is right to go to a different team. Change of team dynamic, change of coaching, change of location can do it. Its not always about loyalty. If I live in Pickering and I don't drive but the team decides to relocate to MCC, then I have things to think about.

We are talking as if a time bonus was actually applied. Where did anyone get any proof of this? Was it written on the board? Some have suggested that it was not even though penalties and bonuses were written on the board for prior races.

Good point @ 4:23.

If I am not getting races, whether it be due to team politics or just too many good paddlers keeping me out of the boat, I would consider changing teams. Otherwise, I would stay put.

When you race at the island you expect wash riding. It is almost impossible for a team to break away completely from the teams beside them after the seeding has been done. In deeper water we might see more of a spread, but the top crews who opt to sign up for the island festival know that wash riding will be a factor, and everyone plans their strategy accordingly.

I agree that if you cross in to a ghost lane to ride the wash, then you should be disqualified. I am uncomfortable with the idea of providing time bonuses if they move a crew ahead of a crew that finished ahead of them, as opposed to just giving them a slightly enhanced time.

Either there was a time bonus or the timing was just plain crap.

Alliance clearly came second, but it was very close. Nowhere near a second let alone more difference. Adding a second to the actual difference would probably be about right as someone else said.

Of course since it was the final, time really doesn't matter other than to highing that it was a pretty darn good race to watch with 3-4 boats still in it with 100m to go (we can pretend that somehow it wasn't a given for Mayfair to win it regardless of them not being a boat out).

Its hilarious. The rumour becomes fact somewhere in the discussion. There was no "time bonus".

There's never been any such thing.

GWN is the best in the biz. More likely the finish bouys drifted.

Video.. anyone?

Its hilarious. A forum expert says "There was no "time bonus". There's never been any such thing." They need to get out more and go to more festivals.

Name one.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/135730/thread/1243288864/last-1243815134/Outer+Harbour+DBC+3000m+Challenge+PREDICTIONS

Jetstart was awarded a time bonus after the Warriors bumped into them.

In a 500m race....
In a long distance there are many interpretations.

IDBF Wash Riding Rules:

R7.5 Wake Riding (Wash Hanging). In races of 1000 metres or less, it is forbidden for a crew to wake ride that is, to gain an advantage from the wake or wash of another boat by paddling across the angle of its bow wave and gaining an increase in speed by riding the forward face of the wave. The Umpire following the boat shall decide if wake riding (wash hanging) has occurred and notify the Chief Official accordingly, who will decide what action to take.

Chief Official is given complete discretion to decide what to do (including awarding time bonus).

Note that you don't have to leave your lane to be guilty of wash riding.

I'm uncertain about the A-final but time bonuses did take place in other races. Heat 21 had time bonuses awards to Paddlers Anonymous and Totally Insane Crew, and a penalty to the team that interfered with them.

Well until I hear/read it somewhere the an actual time bonus was given, I'm going to believe the times are correct. I have never heard of a time bonus in a 500m Grand Championship race anywhere. I raced that weekend and I clearly saw several races marked with adjustments. I didn't see one for the A final.

Have there ever been teams caught with racing 13 men?

The correct definition is:

10. RACE CONDUCT
10.1 Correct Course and Clear Water The correct course for each boat is a straight line down the course or down the middle of its marked Racing Lane, from the Start Line to the Finish Line. Crews are responsible for their steering and leave their Racing Lane, or deviate from their line at their own risk. Even when crews are in their Racing Lanes or following a racing line, at least two (2) metres of clear water must be maintained around each boat.

Under DBC Rules - no team should be awarded time. But, a penalty of 5 secs should be applied
as an infraction to the team that failed to adhere to warnings from the Race Marshall following
the crews.

In case of the "A" Final. The placement of the crews was correct.
It is obvious a time award was given to CSDC.
However that takes nothing away from the effort of all three crews.

You know, posting a bunch of DBC rules and then embedding your BELIEF that there was a time bonus given is a sneaky way to make your belief a fact.

LOL. Denied

200

"You know, posting a bunch of DBC rules and then embedding your BELIEF that there was a time bonus given is a sneaky way to make your belief a fact."

Yeah, posting rules and referring to prior situations where time bonuses have been allowed is sneaky and contrary to forum protocol. Why don't you just be ignorant instead, AND HOPE THAT IF YOU RELY ON CAPS TO MAKE YOUR POINT NO ONE WILL NOTICE?!

You don't get it. You posted DBC rules to gain legitimacy. Then you make a not so logical leap
saying it was "obvious" a time award was given to CSDC. Really? How is it obvious? Did you do the timing? Do you have video at the line? Did you say it noted on the score board? Do you have any proof other than your perception of what is "obvious"?

I'm wondering how CSDC feels about all this. Whether they agree or feel insulted by this "obvious" time bonus talk.

Whether or not there was a time bonus given in the A final, only someone who didn't see the race would think that 2nd and 3rd place were more than .5s apart let alone over a second. If less than a dragon head were over a second then a boat would be closer to 10s than 4s. It was close enough that some weren't even sure which was ahead. No way that happens at over a second.

I'm really not sure why anyone is arguing against the time either being off or a time bonus being awarded. Reality is what it was regardless of how unlikely it seems to those who didn't actually witness it. It's not like it changes the outcome or anything anyway.

Personally I would tend to believe in some lazy timing being more likely than some time bonus especially since nobody appears to have been penalized a time penalty. Not sure how they could award time to someone without someone else breaking the rules to require it in the first place. 6 clearly came into 5's lane, but if they weren't penalized then it never happened from an official scoring perspective.

"I'm uncertain about the A-final but time bonuses did take place in other races. Heat 21 had time bonuses awards to Paddlers Anonymous and Totally Insane Crew, and a penalty to the team that interfered with them."

They were awarded time bonuses because the team in lane 1 veered all the way into lane 3 crossing their paths and then trying to get back into their lane. TIC and PA were thrown off course and some paddlers even had to stop due to the near collision. As a result, were awarded time bonuses.

Regardless of timing, the results were not affected. Mayfair won the race, CSDC were 2nd and Big Fish were 3rd.

End of story.

My impression is that CSDC couldn't give a rat's ass and even if they could they are too old to understand how to use the internet to begin with.

You are right...CSDC couldn't give a rat's ass.

CSDC are far too experienced and confident in what they do to get involved in this.

does it say anywhere that there was a penalty?...just curious...

To an old fart, this thread is really confusing. I just dusted off my Commodore 64 to get connected to this new fangled internet, after playing a rousing game of PONG with myself, and find that I can be awarded a few seconds if I allow myself to be ridden by 20 young buff paddlers - probably not worth it when you can get Viagra for next to nothing, and it gives you more than a second or two. And then I am told we are allowed to have incestuous relationships with the other top teams, but some of them I suspect from the names would smell like fish, so I will stick to the oldies but goodies on my team (better to be castrated by someone you know).

Dr. Canoe,

I can't stop laughing. Thanks!!!!

Where can we get the Day 1 results?

Its available online now

Has there been any official confirmation/denial of the purported time bonus for the CSDC crew in the final?

http://www.jonathanyam.com/db2009/results.html

Here's the link to the results (for day 1 just click on the top - where it says "day 1").

There's no indication of any time penalty or bonus so I think it was just shotty timekeeping.

Only in the minds of Big Fish

I highly doubt that Big Fish or anyone else in the Final really gives a rats ass.

They can leave that up to the Z division sht disturbers trolling for fireworks.

Riiight. Because the Z division cares how much Big Fish lost to CSDC by.

No, but they are most likely the ones trying to stir up ****.

Teams actually in the race have much better things to do and realize that it's completely irrelevant.

So they claim when not posting annonymously

Dr Canoe, you're frickin hilarious as usual. Always have a quick line ready to go don't you! Proud to be a boat mate Doc. But its time to get waxed man...and wash that frickin shirt!

"To an old fart, this thread is really confusing. I just dusted off my Commodore 64 to get connected to this new fangled internet, after playing a rousing game of PONG with myself, and find that I can be awarded a few seconds if I allow myself to be ridden by 20 young buff paddlers - probably not worth it when you can get Viagra for next to nothing, and it gives you more than a second or two. And then I am told we are allowed to have incestuous relationships with the other top teams, but some of them I suspect from the names would smell like fish, so I will stick to the oldies but goodies on my team (better to be castrated by someone you know)."

ROTFL...hey Doc!

I took your advice on the viagra and incest. Now it hurts when I pee, and my cousin on that other fishy team won't stop calling me. Help.

sincerely, doubly confused

HAhaahah this forum entertains me so

Heh, me too!

Did the national women's team really post a 2:03 after hanging back for 5 seconds to give the others a head start? would that put them sub-2 minute?

They posted a 2:08 after hanging back for 3-4 seconds.

Hey Dr Canoe,

Even if you didn't put your name, I would still know it's you hahaha...

ST

11:22am you are looking at the Alliance women's time.

Race 83 - National Premier Women 2:03:57 after hanging 3 or 4 seconds.

Just another example of how the Island timing is sketchy at best. Head to head is the only real decider.

I have nothing but respect for our awesome Women's National team and I have no doubts they will kick butt in Prague.I also know that they're crazy fast, but they are simply not Mayfair Mixed crazy fast which is what their 2:03 - 3-5 seconds would suggest. From lane 1 no less. It simply ain't so.

They most likely would have made the A division, but I doubt they would have challenged Mayfair. Not that that is a slight against them in any way.