Congrats to False Creek, who pulled a 1:47.07 at Alcan yesterday. That time easily surpasses the U.S. Premier Open team's "world record" of 1:48.74 set in Sydney in 2007. And False Creek did it with their mixed team.

stop trying to start sh*t !

Why is this starting chit? False Creek just pulled the fastest time ever in a 500. Congrats to them.

There are no "world" records in paddling - Dragon Boat or Flat-water.
Tailwinds, salt water and current all help to alter the perspective of how a time is achieved.

Hahaa 10:15 just beat me to it.

That said, that's one heck of a good time regardless.

I wish FC was coming to the sport regatta here in July to race Mayfair, Beasts and the rest of us again.

Not suprised they aren't however as they're already traveling this year and it always seems up to them to make the trip out here.

There definitely are world records in dragon boating. The coach of the U.S. national team is on record saying that two of his Sydney teams (Premier Open and Mixed) each set world records in Sydney.

Didn't we already have a prolonged thread about whether there are world records (with the conclusion that there aren't)?

Still, that was a great time by False Creek, particularly compared to the open crews, and it bodes well for Prague.

If you have ever paddled at Alcan, you know that the starts are not held, often drift past the start line by a good half boat or more and the race course is subject to a signficant incoming or outgoing tide depending upon the heat time. You can only look at times for courses that have no tide, held starts, no tail wind, etc.

10:48 your kidding right? Cause he said it it must be true?

I know your kidding. I hope you are anyway.

There are no world records for dragonboat, but FCRCC is still the fastest in 500 m. Lots of envious people, probably from Southern Ontario, but hey keep it coming.

Well, I'm one of those laughing at those claiming world records. I am from Southern Ontario and I think False Creek is pretty much the fastest Club Crew in the World let alone Canada so how do you like them apples?

Starts, wind current, acts of god or whatever that is still a crazy fast time. None of that changes the fact that there are still NO WORLD RECORDS though. Plenty of unofficial ones though so you can enjoy that.

Heck even track and field and other sports have some tight weather, sea level, wind and other conditions that must be met for times to be considered for records. Add water dynamics to that and you can surely see why sports like rowing and paddle disciplines have never come close to setting any standards let alone any being measured at any DB event ever run anywhere.

The post at 10:48 is pretty funny. Because some coach claims a world record then that must be fact.

This is stupid.

Well if there are world records them the real world record was set last year in Shawinigan, Quebec. The BMO team did a 1:32! Ha!

So there, BMO are the world record holders...

Still think world records exist in DB?

You are probably right when you say they are the fastest mixed "club crew" out there right now . We saw how they dominated at the club crews in TO and since then they only got faster .

The core crew seems to have remained the same for a few years now and has paid off as they all know each what to expect from each other and how to execute when called upon .

Try re-arranging the words club crew to National Crew.

They are a true club crew w/ no pulled in ringers .They are all from the same club and raced together for yrs now .It doesn't get more "club" then that .

Not sure if paddlers from all over US can be a club crew.
Race together once a year or so and being a member is a loose club connection.
My opinion says national crew.
Then, what do I know?

False Creek - Club Crew.
Now that is stretching it !!
When there is basically one club outlet in Vancouver - where does everybody train ?
False Creek accepts only the best paddlers from the area onto the crew.
This is no different that the Beasts - they also have a huge opportunity to recruit
the best paddlers from the Canoe Clubs.

Every other "Club" in Canada, does not have the same ability to recruit a squad,
or have three different teams under the same banner.

But, I guess as long as you say you all train together it eases you idea of being
nothing more than a Club Crew. The Crew was purpose built to go to the World's.

It wasn't just "some coach" who said that his team holds two world records. It was the coach of the team that won the Nations Cup in Sydney. Why would he claim to hold two World Records if he knew there were no world records in dragon boat racing?

Because he is an idiot. I lost a lot of respect for him after reading that.

What a joker.

2006 EDBF European Championships

Premier Mixed

Russia 1:46:16

Another World Record!

I think the U.S. coach was correct, and that his team posted the fastest recorded time at an official world championship race, but not a world record in the sense of the fastest time ever.

That is smoking fast. Riddle me this? What were the other times of the teams in that race? Was it just a damn fast team or a damn fast team with favorable conditions? With soooo much speed Canada will have no problem's in Prague.

Comp A Championship - BUK
1. 1:47.070 FCRCC Team Canada
2. 1:49.280 Kai Ikaika
3. 1:49.480 FCRCC B
4. 1:55.590 Dragon Hearts Magnum
5. 1:56.430 Masters of D'Zone
6. 1:58.940 Sudden Impact Black
7. 1:59.000 Air Canada Jetstart
8. 1:59.250 Los Angeles Racing Dragons Black

Damn fast team with damn favourable conditioning. It was high incoming tide with tailwind at that time, and even Rec A teams are getting 2 minutes mark.

add +10 seconds then it's legit..

try more like 5-7

"2006 EDBF European Championships

Premier Mixed

Russia 1:46:16

Another World Record!

I think the U.S. coach was correct, and that his team posted the fastest recorded time at an official world championship race, but not a world record in the sense of the fastest time ever."



This is hilarious -- on two counts...

(1) The U.S. coach has been claiming all along that his teams (Premier and Mixed) set two world record in Sydney even though in 2006 a Russian mixed team recorded a faster time than both of his "world record" teams did in Sydney.

(2) He has not qualified his claim of a world record by saying that it was the "fastest recorded time at an official world champsionship race". He claims to hold the world records (Premier and Mixed), period.

Just to fan the flames a bit more, from the PDBA website:

"This August the United States Dragon Boat Team, based in Philadelphia around a core of Philadelphia paddlers, will defend our 2007 World Championship and World Record time against what is likely to be the toughest field ever attending this event. Eastern Europe is known for it's paddling sports, and the Czechs, Russians and Germans will be racing right in their own back yards. Pressure on the team has never been greater."

Yup world record time

50% of the Americans are just flat out idiots.

This coach clearly falls under that 50% of Americans.

you people are too hung up on titles and times. head to head racing is all that matters.
Bring your best or go home.

What is there to dispute? Anything said on the internet HAS to be true! The guy even put quotation marks around the comment! How much more official do you need to get?

Congrats to False Creek and Kai Ikaikai. Can't believe you losers are still pissing your pants over what the Philly team hypes on its website to attract sponsorship money. Where would the US team be without the Philly organization and its ability to raise money to send a quality team to worlds? Sucking down beers watching the finals instead of winning them is where.

So I guess it's OK to lie to potential sponsors? I'm make a note of that.

8:14 --

50% of the Americans are just flat out idiots.

This coach clearly falls under that 50% of Americans.
-----------------------------

Well, I would not call him an idiot. More accurately I would say brilliant. He is inflating the minds of the other 50%
Builds team confidence and attracts cha-ching!

Lying about a bogus world record makes no sense. He won the Nations Cup!! Isn't "we're the best team in the world" enough for sponsors?

When your not modest you use all the props you can get.
Does the bogus comment help? I say yes to those who are don't know much about the sport.

Times mean nothing as another post stated. Its all relative to the conditions and heat to heat they change.

Maybe the Florida teams can go out as a hurricane hits and post a sub 1 minute time! If they get a good 60mph tail wind.
I shouldn't give these ideas. 50% of the US teams may give it a try.

I'm claiming this as my world record and don't try to dispute me:

www.genesrestaurant.ca/video/pool_sprint.wmv

Way to go!

Congrats to the new 10m world record holder! You kicked butt.

Hey did you get a reverse wedgie?
I wouldn't try this one at home without proper supervision.

If you guys were in Sydney you would know that it was announced that the Philippines in the semis and the US in the final had both set world record times. Also, you might know that there are condition criteria in terms of wind, held starts, idbf event, and non-moving water for the term world record to apply(I think it might have been in DBWI magazine). Regardless of whether or not you think records should exist, the coach didn't "make it up", it was announced. I personally don't think they should have world records in this kind of sport but I also don't think the USA team should be called liars for saying they have the record.

So because someone with a microphone in Sydney said that a "world record" was set, it's correct? Are you kidding me?

BTW, the IDBF has no world-record criteria.

Until Guinness or IDBF shows up with a full list of standard/criteria and awards a team the world record officially and permanently, it's pretty clear that the USA Team coach is just blowing hot air without any credits. :\

But let's not give them idea. I'm sure that they'll flood Guinness with stupid records like the loudest calls, longest stroke time-wise, highest number of stroke per minute, fastest time on a barnacle-ridden boat, and whatnot.

It's not just about sponsorship for the team. It's about power for this guy. The U.S. coach also listed his "world records" -- in bold -- on his coaching resume, which he sent to the USDBA members who were voting for the Head Coach of the U.S. Team going to Prague.

"50% of the Americans are just flat out idiots.

This coach clearly falls under that 50% of Americans."

The U.S. are like this when it comes to all sports. When an NBA team wins their Championship the American media hails them as "World Champions"! When an MLB team win their Championship they are also called "World Champions"! When an NFL team wins the Super Bowl they are also declared "World Champions"!

Nothing but a bunch of ignorant navel gazers south of the border.

Americans were great in Sydney and False Creek is a great team however really times are always suspect. Occasionally a course throws out very fast times for no aparent reason.
In Welland one year (it was a qualier for something , Sydney or Tornto CCWC ) the second round was really fast. No visible current , very little wind , 500m course. My Grand Dragon mixed team did a 1:50 and a couple of premier teams were a couple of seconds faster. My GD mixed were very fast but not 1:50 fast , all of the times were about 6 sec. less than expected.

Yes, and no matter what the sport is, there are things that help or hurt times. the only thing I can say is that any event that has World representation should be considered a event that an unofficial record could be claimed. I say this because you will clearly have the best of the best paddlers in those boats all facing the same conditions at the same time where ever they battle. There will be no debate about head wind, current, or wind to your backs. Its the top teams fighting it out at an event that is clearly a World Championship. So, unless you can get these teams meeting in the different venues at the same time, you can say that the other races have faster times but that does not mean they are better than the teams that compete at a world level. To even think that False Creeks Mixed team's time beat a World Champion time could be true, I mean the times speak for themselves but unless there is world represntation it would be insane to consider that the times were comparable considering the other teams were all under 1:50 leaving me to believe that that is just a fast venue. Had the Philippines, China, Aussies, US, Germany or Canadian teams been there, they would probably hit the low 1:40's. Of course, it is just an assumption and we will never really know, but I don't think that it is wrong to say that any team that win's the Prague race under what the Americans did in Sydney is a World Record it just might be safer to say it was an Unofficial one.

"It's not just about sponsorship for the team. It's about power for this guy. The U.S. coach also listed his "world records" -- in bold -- on his coaching resume, which he sent to the USDBA members who were voting for the Head Coach of the U.S. Team going to Prague."

Well he got elected, apparently those voting didn't have their shorts knotted up like you still do. And why would you want a head coach who isn't about power? Were the other candidates running not seeking "power"? Did they run on a "kumbaya" platform?

You disgruntled US posters are a piss, here is a coach who knows how to put together kick butt teams and you tear him up and down because he beat your team or didn't pick you for the team.

How about the speed on the Wasabi Grand Masters, they might have been finalists in the 2005 Berlin Worlds, think about it they would have been 4 years younger too! And that False Creek team with a 1:47 was 8 seconds faster than the Canadian national team in 2005, we are sure to win easily in Prague. Wow these teams are real fast, must be the West Coast water:)

2009 Alcan GIB Recreational A Championship
3 Los Angeles Racing Dragons Red 2:01.840
1 Wasabi Grand Masters 2:00.760
4 Dragon Hearts Beat 2:02.280
2 How Wet Can You Get? 2:01.590
5 Team Vortex 2:03.480
7 Shaggin Dragons Reloaded 2:04.560
8 Castaways 2:08.030


2005 IDBF WORLD DRAGON BOAT RACING CHAMPIONSHIPS
5 of 44
FINALS SUMMARY Friday 5th August 05
Premier Mixed 500m Grand Final
Place Team Time
1 Russia 1:54.37
2 Canada 1:55.47
3 United States 1:55.74
4 Germany 1:56.40
5 Macau China 1:58:23
6 Czech Republic 2:00.63

Just because I like being a chit disturber, another little excerpt from PDBA:

"Despite the relative inexperience, the performance of the Senior Open was exceptional taking silver in the 2000-meter and a bronze in the 1000-and 500-meter events missing the silver in the 500 and the bronze in the 200 by only 0.2 seconds. The only teams faster were Canada with a deeply experienced boat stacked with the best flat-water canoeists from Eastern Canada and Australia A, a big strong experienced team paddling on its home course."

Can someone (from Canada) confirm whether or not the Canadian Seniors boat was stacked with the best flat-water canoeists from Eastern Canada? The thing of course is even if that statement is true, this is the World Championships shouldn't all boats be stacked with the best talent if possible. No need for the qualifier about a "stacked boat" as it appears to be an excuse as to why they lost.

"Australia A, a big strong experienced team paddling on its home course"

So? Was there something about the water that only the Aussies knew about?

"here is a coach who knows how to put together kick butt teams and you tear him up and down"


You're missing the point. The U.S. coach certainly DOES put together kick-butt teams. So why does he need to claim "world records" when he certainly knows that no such thing exists in this sport? And even if such records did exist, faster times than his were recorded in 2006 in the European Championships.

It's just odd that he needs to claim false achievements (world records) when in fact he has so many other legitimate achievements (numerous gold medals at world championships).

"You're missing the point. The U.S. coach certainly DOES put together kick-butt teams. So why does he need to claim "world records" when he certainly knows that no such thing exists in this sport? And even if such records did exist, faster times than his were recorded in 2006 in the European Championships."

And you need to see a therapist because of your bad experiences with this coach, he is so into your grill that you can't see what a nuisance you are harping on this world record thing for two years now. You and maybe 2-3 of your equally disgruntled buddies care about this way too much and go out of your way time and again to discredit him.

Let me guess where you are from, Philly right? And he probably cut you from a team, right? You probably started this BS thread just to dig his name up again to throw mud at it. If he was such a disgrace as you put forth he would not be where he is today. He has a large loyal following of paddlers who don't think he is inherently evil as you are claiming. His organization has over a hundred paddlers who follow him and the US coaches picked him to lead them. Despite your efforts to tear him down you will never be able to diminish all his achievements in the sport. Get some help so you can start to enjoy the sport again.

You guys are looking into it a little too much. Clearly that page is only trying to make the story sound more exciting...

As I recall the anouncement in Sydney was that the US team set a "World Championship Record (or best ?) Time" , i.e. a championship best time , not the same as a world record.

"No need for the qualifier about a "stacked boat" as it appears to be an excuse as to why they lost."

Maybe they are just showing respect for the competition?

The article also says this: "In the Premier Open event, while making the final, we had to bow down in respect to the Philippines and China who both cranked at over 130 strokes per minute on their way to gold and silver in blazing times."

You are selectively pulling out excerpts from this article to try and make him look bad and ignoring things like the above. That is a mighty big chip you are carrying.

It seems like calling a team "stacked" has turned into an accusation for this forum, but at world championships, that's kind of the point.

Just wait until we start dragonboating against Martians or other aliens, and we'll have trans-galaxy stacking.

"You are selectively pulling out excerpts from this article to try and make him look bad and ignoring things like the above. That is a mighty big chip you are carrying."

Nah, just like causing some chit for the hell of it.

The funny thing of course we're talking about a very successful coach and his program. I just found it amusing he had to add the qualifier there about stacked boat and home course advantage. To me its quite simple, the US seniors lost to two better teams, end of story. Its the Worlds you bring your best to race the best, you don't complain that their best somehow was better because of this and that, but hey maybe thats just me.

Five of the top ten teams at Alcan this year are from the same 'club'. FCRCC Team Canada, FCRCC, Dragon Hearts Team Magnum, Masters of D'Zone, and Without Warning all train out of FCRCC and all have similar coaching/styles. Does that mean the FCRCC can pick a team from hundreds of paddlers and call themselves a 'Club Crew'? Of course not! They still need to 'qualify' their roster as per the Club Crew rules.

Oh my goodness, what a fuss. A bunch of people get together and make a club then the coaches make up crews out of the people in that club and they paddle really, really fast. Sounds like club crews to me.

Does it matter if it is a world record, or the world's fastest time ... they paddled well and placed well.

Bet that the False Creek people have fun as well. It is fun to go fast and paddle with the best. Just ask anyne who has ever paddled for Jim Farintosh.

Paddles up. : - )

Paddling in salt water is faster.

did you ever consider the water conditio?
There might have been a tailwind? It could have been 400m race? Who knows right? All we know is they pulled that kind of time.
It would have been a jaw dropping performance if FCRCC was the only one going under 1:50s but there are several teams doing it as well.
If the MoFos was there im sure theyd go under 2mins as well.

I believe MOFOs is plural so your statement should read:

If the MoFos WERE there I'm sure they'd go under 2mins as well.

You were also missing a lot of punctuation marks but I can forgive you for that.

Be careful if you want to take on the grammar police role because you also need to spell "grammar" properly as well.

I'll leave the speling to the speling police

Here is the scoop...

There are a few fast teams in Canada but if you look at the Alcan results there are teams in the Rec and Competitive divisions that can not do a 2:00 minute/500m in normal conditions plain and simple.

The water can run fast at the Alcan so if you look at the class of teams over the weekend you will clearly see that times were definitely fast not teams.

Again nothing to take away from our Canada Team but conditions make the record so to speak not necessarily the Team. What however will be important is who crosses the line first at the Worlds regardless of the TIME. That will tell you would simply who is the fastest Team and Country !

Pd

whoever the original poster is, and I am from False creek also, is completely ignoring the fact that those were SUPER fast water conditions. Previous poster is correct.

>Five of the top ten teams at Alcan this year are from the same 'club'. FCRCC Team Canada, FCRCC, Dragon Hearts Team Magnum, Masters of D'Zone, and Without Warning all train out of FCRCC and all have similar coaching/styles.

No similarity, they're all different cept the first 2 listed - same team.

Grammar Police 4:08

Actually, The MOFOS could singular. Collective nouns, words that represent groups of people, like family, team, staff, etc. can be used in the plural or singular. Sometimes the meaning changes:

My family is big (= many members)
My family are big (= large people)

This thread has wandered very far from its original post.

"whoever the original poster is, and I am from False creek also, is completely ignoring the fact that those were SUPER fast water conditions. Previous poster is correct."

False Creeker: The original poster is someone who can't get over the fact that the US won in Sydney in a world's fastest/record time. It is undoubtedly someone from the USA who stirred this up. I am sure no one thinks someone from False Creek would be putting such a claim up on the forum. As in Canada there is a certain element in the USA that actually wants to see the national team fail so they can lob their pathetic criticisms at the man/woman in the "arena". Good luck in the arena in Prague.

"False Creeker: The original poster is someone who can't get over the fact that the US won in Sydney in a world's fastest/record time."

Nope. It's not a "fact" at all.

Even if we don't count False Creek's fast time due to the water conditions, many faster times than the U.S.'s "record" in Sydney 2007 were posted in 2006 at the European Championships. Are we going to say that the water conditions at the European Championships were fast, too? Perhaps the conditions were fast. Was anyone there who can tell us?

But there was a nice tailwind in Sydney, too. The point is that no one can have a true world record in water sports and that any claim of such a record is without merit.

Well FCRCC Mixed pulled a 1.53 final on a freshwater lake in Whistler this past weekend so they can't be that slow

And that's with beach landing. Those boats definitely didn't stay clean for the weekend.

I don't believe that anyone has claimed that FCRCC isn't damn fast. Maybe the fastest club crew currently anywhere, but that doesn't change the fact that there are no official world records in Dragon Boat or other paddle discipline. PERIOD.

Anyone claiming such whether they be Canadian, American, Martian or otherwise is just pure nonsense.

Feel free to talk in terms of "unofficial", but then you have to include every backyard or is that backlake regatta anywhere where they post some ridiculous time regardless of current, water depth and wind conditions. I could probably toss a DB with a dummy in it over Niagara falls and claim the all time world record for everything. Unofficial of course, but just as official any any other claims.

Pauses while waiting for someone to argue that some unofficial times are more official than other unofficial times. Foot tap.

"Pauses while waiting for someone to argue that some unofficial times are more official than other unofficial times. Foot tap."

That's exactly what the U.S. coach claims, no?

Sounds like it.

So what? He can claim anything he wants. Doesn't means its valid or even reasonable.

Frankly I'm not sure why anyone cares. Since there isn't an official record for him to be infringing upon, he really isn't hurting anything but his own integrity with silly claims.

Seems pretty obvious its done to help attract sponsors or whatever so what.

Can someone (from Canada) confirm whether or not the Canadian Seniors boat was stacked with the best flat-water canoeists from Eastern Canada? The thing of course is even if that statement is true, this is the World Championships shouldn't all boats be stacked with the best talent if possible. No need for the qualifier about a "stacked boat" as it appears to be an excuse as to why they lost.

**************************

The "best over 40" plus a few who were over 50, but there were still several notable names who stayed home The "best" who could go would make more sense.

To: you with the big chip on your shoulder

The Canadian senior team that went to Sydney was a top flight team. You can look at the times turned in, they were equivalent to the Premier teams. This team was planning on taking the Chinese down off their perch as the best senior team (see Shanghai (all the golds) and Berlin results (all but one gold)).* A number of the paddlers had been in gold medal winning Premier boats.

It seems you are parsing words to see if it was "the best" as some way of getting to your point that the US coach is a "liar". Whether it was #1-20 of senior paddlers from some non-existent ranking does nothing to take away from the fact that this was a "stacked" boat. It is human nature to say we lost but the other guys had this or that advantage in order to make you or your own team feel better about itself. This is something coaches tell little kids to make them feel better and it goes on as a healthy ego preserving mechanism throughout ones sporting life. The fact that you can't stomach the coach writing in that manner and your continuing to harp on these issues means you have a serious psychological complex regarding the US coach.

*The Chinese unfortunately did not show in seniors

it appeared the chinese seniors raced in premier instead in australia

I am hearing from friends in china that they are sending an all new team to Prague due to their apparantly "disappointing" third place finish in australia

To: Anonymous July 16 2009, 11:54 AM

"It is human nature to say we lost but the other guys had this or that advantage in order to make you or your own team feel better about itself. This is something coaches tell little kids to make them feel better and it goes on as a healthy ego preserving mechanism throughout ones sporting life."

Yeah ok, so these were little kids in the boat that needed their ego to perserved?! Give me a F*ing break! These are the world championship where you hopefully send your best and if you can't have a "stacked" boat yourself, well that's your problem. Finally, if you lose, guess what SUCK IT UP! Excuses are just a**holes, everyone has one and apparently some more than others!

"Excuses are just a**holes, everyone has one and apparently some more than others!"

You have more than one a$$hole?

That guy clearly has his head up one of his a**es.

Surely no one from Canada would never come up with excuses for why they lost at Worlds. Come on, we heard for weeks about how Canada couldn't send their best premier crew and that's the only reason the US won. Face it, Canada had a stacked senior team and the US had a stacked premier team. Those are compliments, not accusations or excuses.

What is so funny about this is that the poster above is undoubtedly the same Philly hater (we can only guess who) who put this up on the Taiwan thread:

"Canada medaled and the US was in the thick of it all, with a master and grand master line up and solidly in the top consistently. Other countries showed up with their professional 20 something year old teams. "

Go back and forth between this and the Taiwan thread and look at the times on the posts, basically identical. So before leaving for Taiwan they start into the Philly coach for having this "excuse" on the web site, they go to Taiwan, lose and come back and make their own EXCUSE!

This is hilarious and typical.

Yes Canada very well could have sent a much better team to the Worlds but Canadian team have no funding and do not have a club paying for their plane fares or hotel stays hence the top paddlers can't be bothered and until that day happens then the premier crews will send the best team of those that are willing to fund thier own ways

The World's is mean't for stacked crews and the reason they are call "The World Championships" but if you want to race a "club" team and feel the Worlds is not fair because the crews are all stacked then head to the club crews ,this is for you .

So let me get this straight:
at Alcan,
1. It was a floating start, not a held start
2. Had a 20 knot tailwind
3. Is Tidal
Is that correct?

Rape the dead horse some more. But yes to all of the above.

Forget Alcan. Faster times than the alleged 2007 "world record" were recorded at the European Championships in 2006.

There are no world records in paddle/rowing sports!!

Thank you all for your contributions, but can we please avoid repeating the same information and let this thread die?

The idiot who keeps harping about the EDBF championships being faster than Sydney fails to mention that this race was held on a river, yes a place with a current, which invalidates this attempt to piss on the Sydney results. Any twit will tell you Russia didn't improve 8 seconds in one year. The world's fastest times article invalidated results from other races held on rivers like Berlin and only took times on legitimate Olympic type contained courses. Racice will be such a course.

From the EDBF web site, part of an article on the 2006 championships:

"Saturday saw records snuffed in the 200m races further up on the Vlatava River where hosts Czech Republic won the 200m premier open with a time of 40.30. Russia followed closely behind with 40.34 and Slovakia took third with 40.54, besting finals times set at the 2005 World Championships in Berlin (2005: Russia 45.53, Canada 46.21, Philippines 46.30).

Russia improved the gold medal time they set in 500m premier mixed event at the 2005 World Championships by over eight seconds, with 1.46.16 on Sunday (2005: 1.54.37). Hungary took home silver and Sweden took bronze."

Nice name calling. Grow up.

The info in your post proves nothing yet. Would Russia improve 8 seconds in one year if both their races were held in the same conditions? Or course not. I agree with you there. But what were the conditions in 2005? Was there a headwind? Were the boats the same? And do we know exactly how much the current in 2006 helped? Of course not. We also don't know how much the tailwind in Sydney helped in 2007. Again, there are no world records in paddling/rowing sports.

The "article" some of you keep referring to was printed in a magazine (Dragonboat World) which is nothing more than a marketing/PR tool for the sport. If that's your only source for what makes a "world record" in dragonboating, you have no source at all.

I can't believe anyone is still trying to defend "a world record claim" let alone the fact that there are NOT EVEN ANY records for this sport.

Truly amazing.

To those who continue to bang their heads against this wall of ignorance all I can say is let them pretend they have a record if it will make this stupid thread die.

Proverb (or should be): Don't argue with idiots, you cannot win. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I realize that this could revive a thread that I kind of wish went away but oh well...

Paddling World Records/Best Times

http://www.canoeicf.com/default.asp?MenuID=Flatwater%2Fc1020%2F1618%2CResults%5Fand%5FRanking%2F1065%2F0%2CStatistics%2F1125%2F0%2CWorld%5FRecords%5Fsince%5F1975%2F1235%2F0

Rowing World Records/Best Times

http://www.worldrowing.com/index.php?pageid=87

Do any of you actually making these claims that there are no world records in paddlesports have any experience in the above sports? Or at least take the five minutes to check and see if there is any basis for it?

Look closely at the times in those links and you will see that they are "World Best" times. They are not referred to as "world records" because it is understood that weather, current, and even water-temperature affect times. The official Olympic site --http://www.olympic.org/uk/sports/records/results_uk.asp -- allows you to look up the World Records for each sport. Note that you cannot find entries for canoe, kayak, or rowing (or any other sport that is affected by weather, like skiing.)

I'm guessing these world record times are all under one governing international sport body which regulates all acceptable race conditions and limits any deviations. So it would make sense to have world record times in that framework. But that guarantee of conditions and rules must be enforced to give any legitimacy to those records. I would imagine that canoeing and rowing have stricter international rules, or at least, a more uniform international governing body. I think the problem here is that most dragon boating events are too varied and can't properly compare race conditions or even timing methods or regulations (ie. floating starts, held starts, etc.)to develop an accurate world record time.

But then of course you can open up a whole can of worms for any sport which has world records which might be affected by technological advances or changes in the sport. For instance, swimmers are definitely faster today than 20 years ago, but some of that is due to new technologies in bathing suits and probably the construction of pools as well. That doesn't detract from their achievements, but should be kept in mind when making comparisons, especially when time is a factor. In an ideal world, some kind of set standard would be enforced.

"I'm guessing these world record times are all under one governing international sport body which regulates all acceptable race conditions and limits any deviations. So it would make sense to have world record times in that framework."

They're not. That's why they are called "world best".

Or it could be as July 30 2009, 2:27 PM stated, that they don't have them because they don't exist.

PS. July 30 2009, 2:27 PM , props to the excellent smack-down of the tool before you. He was getting all uppity in his declarations of how stupid we all were and SLAMMMMMM.

This is too funny. Despite the dancing above the ICF website clearly labels these as WORLD RECORDS! Now we all are quite certain that at least some of the persons who are behind the nearly 2 years of slamming Philly and its coach for what is on their website are the same ones who raced under the ICF banner in Taiwan! Recall that one of them posted here that McNamara "lied" on his coaching resume for the US head coach vote because he had world record on there as part of his bio. Only those voting for US head coach would have seen this resume and we all know which group lost the vote and headed to the USACK/ICF. So let's put a nail in it. No more pissing about Philly's statement on its infrequently viewed website until you get your mother organization, the ICF, to take the "lies" off its website.

Somebody want my popcorn?

Somehow lost my appetite.

Butter it up and hand it over. This is getting juicy.

Whomever dug up that link to the ICF site deserves a beer as it should finally shut these knuckleheads up after 2 years of whining about something of no consequence.

World Best times can only be set on a regatta course determined by the ICF
to be listed for International competition, this includes regulations on course
width, depth and any flow of water.

"No more pissing about Philly's statement on its infrequently viewed website until you get your mother organization, the ICF, to take the "lies" off its website."


All you proved was that both the ICF and Philly's coach are full of baloney! Maybe that's why McNamara sent his right-hand-man Flemer to join the ICF? They belong together. While McNamara publicly states that he is against the ICF's involvement with dragonboating, his most loyal paddler has joined the ICF. What a crack up!

Let me repeat: THERE ARE NO RECOGNIZED WORLD RECORDS IN PADDLING SPORTS. That's why the Olympic site lists none. The insecure types at ICF and IDBF can claim whatever they want. (At least ICF ultimately calls each top time a "world best" on its site if you look closely enough.)

Menawhile, the more intelligent folks at FISA (the international rowing federation) only use "best times":http://www.worldrowing.com/index.php?pageid=87

"Now we all are quite certain that at least some of the persons who are behind the nearly 2 years of slamming Philly and its coach for what is on their website are the same ones who raced under the ICF banner in Taiwan! Recall that one of them posted here that McNamara "lied" on his coaching resume for the US head coach vote because he had world record on there as part of his bio. Only those voting for US head coach would have seen this resume and we all know which group lost the vote and headed to the USACK/ICF."


That's quite an assumption. Remember that it was not only Blundetto's people who voted for him. He also received votes from four coaches from other parts of the U.S. Plenty of people saw that resume (it was not confidential) and saw the silly "world record" claim.

Keep in mind while bragging about McNamara's narrow victory that Blundetto actually received more votes (four) from other coaches than did McNamara (just one). McNamara won the vote because his teams won 6 divisions at the Nationals, so he automatically got 6 "coach" votes from within his organization. 7 votes were needed to win, so McNamara just need to sway one coach for the deciding vote.

I didn't see any bragging but regardless it is clearly a good thing that he was able to sway that one voter. Blundetto wanted to convert the US team into "his" style of paddling (basically the technique from the old Mac Hickox article) and to have the OC-1 test count for only 10% of one's score towards selection. All we have to do is to look at the recent results to see that the US is lucky this did not happen. Blundetto's Senior/GM team goes to Taiwan and gets dusted, Mac's Senior/GM team goes to Montreal and finishes 4th 0.2 behind Verdun, a high quality younger mixed team that did well in Penang.

" Blundetto wanted to convert the US team into "his" style of paddling (basically the technique from the old Mac Hickox article) and to have the OC-1 test count for only 10% of one's score towards selection. All we have to do is to look at the recent results to see that the US is lucky this did not happen. Blundetto's Senior/GM team goes to Taiwan and gets dusted, Mac's Senior/GM team goes to Montreal and finishes 4th 0.2 behind Verdun, a high quality younger mixed team that did well in Penang."


You're misinformed. When running for Head Coach, Blundetto was asked by the USDBF to give a proposal which was to specifically include a stroke technique and a testing process. Blundetto included exactly that in his proposal AND made it very clear that he would respect each individual coach's desires if their selection/technique differed. That is, Blundetto was not going to "convert" anyone to any of the stuff that you claim above. He only gave suggestions, as required by the USDBF for his proposal. However, the guys from Philly blew his suggestions completely out of proportion (typical), claiming that Blundetto would force these suggestions upon everyone. That was never the case -- and they knew it. But they used this lie as a scare tactic to garner a vote.

As for your comparisons of results above, be serious. You're comparing the results of 40- and 50-year-olds to the results of Premier-age teams. Come on. You can't draw any conclusions about the technique/selection process of Hickox or Blundetto if you compare their Senior-team times to Premier times. Perhaps if Blundetto/Hickox were coaching premier teams, then their teams would be as good as anyone. Or not. But there is no way to know that because that is not their priority. So give that a rest.

I would not put Blundetto on the same level as Hickox. Hickox has been proven himself year after year.

"As for your comparisons of results above, be serious. You're comparing the results of 40- and 50-year-olds to the results of Premier-age teams. Come on."

Read the post again, I did not mention the Premier team but the Senior/GM mixed from Philly that went to Montreal and finished fourth. Of the men in that boat 8 were GMs, the comparison is fair.

Regardless, we are talking about Philly "National Team" paddlers racing local clubs. I would hope they would do well.

Sounds like they barely beat split versions of the MTL crew that raced at GWN. I hope the paddlers that weren't there are good.

"Read the post again, I did not mention the Premier team but the Senior/GM mixed from Philly that went to Montreal and finished fourth. Of the men in that boat 8 were GMs, the comparison is fair."


Thanks for the clarification. I thought that you were referring to Mac Hickox's team when you wrote "Mac's team".

The comparison, though, is still useless. Verdun is a good club team. The teams that smoked Blundetto's Mixed team in Taiwan were the national teams from Germany, Hungary, and Russia.

Let's settle this once and for all.

It's ridiculous that the IDBF recognizes world records. The U.S. team's "world record" in Penrith (Sydney) was aided by a sustained 12-15 mph ENE tailwind. See here:http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/YSSY/2007/9/23/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA&MR=1

The course in Penrith runs east to west.

For some perspective, in track events, any wind over just 4.47 mph is considered too high and NO one-way race run with winds over that speed is eligible for world records. In track, the wind is only a factor in the 100m and 200m events, which don't last more than 21 seconds at the elite level.

"Let's settle this once and for all.
It's ridiculous that the IDBF recognizes world records."

Gee, it's also ridiculous that you have no grasp of the facts. The IDBF does not recognize world records, the only place anyone could find from a paddling international organization that world record is mentioned is on the ICF web site. Do your homework.

This had been settled once and for all until you brought it up again! The general conclusion is that the US/Philly team used this to try and bring in sponsor money and that some of the ex-Philly or ex-US team members (who interestingly are now with the ICF) keep bringing it up to try and make them and their coach look bad. Despite these attempts the US/Philly team is still the winner of the Nations Cup, whether its a world record or world's fastest time doesn't really mean a whole lot in the end except to a few small minded people who hold a grudge.

Not that I have a dog in the fight, but Penrith isn't close to the Sydney. 45.8k

"Let's settle this once and for all.

It's ridiculous that the IDBF recognizes world records. The U.S. team's "world record" in Penrith (Sydney) was aided by a sustained 12-15 mph ENE tailwind. See herehttp://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/YSSY/2007/9/23/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA&MR=1

The course in Penrith runs east to west.
For some perspective, in track events, any wind over just 4.47 mph is considered too high and NO one-way race run with winds over that speed is eligible for world records. In track, the wind is only a factor in the 100m and 200m events, which don't last more than 21 seconds at the elite level. "

"Holy Mother of God" as my fifth grade nun would say, someone has gone off the deep end! To go to the weather report from two years ago to try and stick it to me and the Philly team indicates you have a serious problem. Whomever you are I hope you can sleep with the following news. Our youth team beat our world record on the Schuylkill river a few days ago, of course the river was up a few feet but they still beat it into a slight headwind so we will be changing our web site to reflect that they are the new world record holders in the 500. Perhaps then you can get some sleep.

OK, I am kidding about that.

For what it's worth, just so this forum could have some peace on this issue, as I believe it is the third or fourth thread where this has been stirred up, I did ask our webmaster to change the wording to World's Fastest Time a long time ago but he hasn't gotten around to it. Doubt it will happen anytime soon as he has been up to his ears trying to make rectangular photo ID pictures for Prague and what not but it will probably happen someday unless he ignored me because he gets a particular pleasure in seeing someone like you get so worked up over this.

And yes, to further help you sleep I changed my coaching resume some time ago to reflect that this was a world's fastest time not the world record. And no, that statement did not sway the guy from the West Coast to vote for me for US head coach, he had many other reasons to cast his vote in the manner he did.

Now, I do have one request. Mom still thinks we hold the world record and I hope you don't call her up and reveal to her this terrible lie she has been living about her son who coached it and her grandson who was in the boat. I'd hate to think what would happen if she knew it was "only" the world's fastest time.

And furthermore, I have no influence on the dude who put the winning video on You Tube that says "new world record" at the end. He did that on his own and took his cue from what the announcer said in Sydney, likely you were there and heard it too. Please don't start a thread trying to discredit the announcer. Now go run off to the ICF which you are likely now a part of and get them to correct their world record claims.

Whatever I did to alienate you can likely be put behind you with professional help. However, I must point out that your obsessive behavior on this matter indicates that I made the right call in excluding you from our team. Work that out with the therapist too.

Excellent. Of course, it's not even the worlds fastest time, so you may want to loop back with the dude that was going to change the site.

Maybe he can say something like. "World really fast time".

"Excellent. Of course, it's not even the worlds fastest time, so you may want to loop back with the dude that was going to change the site."

Please put your name on your post so we can honor you as forum butthead of the century. Worlds fastest time is accurate per DBWI magazine and every other standard: Olympic course, electronic timing, all the requirements. Your claims about Saudabia have been discredited, go back into your hole.

In that case I guess the False Creek time is also discredited based on your measuring stick?

They either exist or they don't. If they do then any time fits as there is no "protocol" for ensuring a fair and even "record" time.

I guess you can hold the record forever until you break it again under conditions that you approve of.

"I guess you can hold the record forever until you break it again under conditions that you approve of."

I love it. Hahaha.

I was in a boat that did 500 meters in 1:28.5 seconds. So much for the Alcan World Record or the sydney one.

Here is what was said in DBWI magazine's World's Fastest Times article in April of last year and what a reasonable paddler would agree on about which times should be included:


"The list is not all inclusive. In order for a race to be included on the list, Nolan required the race course successfully meet a number
of factors. Most of these criteria are those required for IDBF competition. The boats used must have been IDBF certified standard
boats. The regatta course must meet international standards (adequate depth, lane widths and most importantly not on a moving
body of water (e.g. river or canal). The event must have used electronic timing. The starts must have been held, meaning that
starting pontoons or another similar type of system was used. Finally, the races must have been conducted using IDBF rules, regulations
and race control. This ensures that the equipment and athletes all raced under very similar conditions. When you look at the
list you will find some expected events missing. For example, the 2001 World Championships in Philadelphia are not present
because the race course was on a river."

Despite all your moaning you will NEVER take away the fact that the US/Philly held the world's fastest time at some point, nor will you ever take away the gold medals they won in getting to that level. Go away, punch a wall or something next time you are frustrated instead of peeing your pants on the forum.

Given that the US won the nations cup, I really can't for the life of me understand why your crew would bother clinging to this world record BS.

The Nations Cup is the goal and that should be more than enough. No one cares about this time or that time once the racing is done. It's all about who won. That's all anyone cares about and all anyone remembers.

Not sure why the IDBF would want to try and pretend that records can be taken seriously given all the possible variables, but that doesn't mean it makes sense or that anyone should take it seriously. Maybe they are trying to help promote the sport in the US, which would realistically be about the biggest market their is so they are trying to give a helping hand by saying it's the fastest time or whatever.

Besides, based on the criteria you cited most IDBF and club crew sport racing events wouldn't even qualify for their own specifications.

"Given that the US won the nations cup, I really can't for the life of me understand why your crew would bother clinging to this world record BS."

Who says they are clinging to it, looks like above the coach said they were removing it, fund raising is over for Prague so they don't need this on their web site anymore I suppose.

Let's see ....

If I'm looking for sponsors what would I use as a saleman pitch??? To bad Billy Mayes is not still alive becuase he would use the "World Record" or "Worlds fastest time" before he would say, "well, they are the Nations Cup winners". As a CEO I'd instanly know what "world record" means whereas I'd ask Billy what the hell is a Nations Cup winner??? Wake up people. Stop smoking weed.

Are you serious? Your post was a bit confusing so maybe you were joking or being sarcastic, but...

I don't see how you could think that telling people you had some mythical World Record would be more impressive than saying that you are the defending World Champions? That makes absolutely no sense.

I just read McNamara's response above. I don't understand his ire. The post he replied to is a post that was criticizing the IDBF's recognition of the world record (this recognition was noted in the dragon boat magazine). It was not a criticism of McNamara or the U.S. team, was it? Why did McNamara take it so personally?

McNamara went as far as assuming that the poster was rightly excluded from his team because the poster was showing "obsessive behaviour". It seems to me that obsessive behaviour would be welcomed by McNamara, considering that he took a post directed at the IDBF so personally.

"Why did McNamara take it so personally?"

Either you are clueless or trying to fan the flames again. If clueless just use the search function or scroll the old threads to see the history of this item. Either way it all means nothing now as the big dogs from the US and Canada will be putting it on the line in Prague while the losers who start things like this sit at home and hope they have some new crap to stir up when the competition is over.

Just read it over - do you realize how little almost everyone in the world cares about this? (and that includes all good dragon boat paddlers)