Hi,

I am in a newly forming Survivor Dragon boat team and would like to see what resources would be suggested to get ramped up.
Everyone is pretty much a beginner fitness level is variable but all are breast cancer survivors. Couple of us have practiced with an existing team 1-2 times.

I am presuming there should be an emphasis on 1- Core 2 - Leg strength, along with emphasizing stretching for ease of range of motion and injury prevention. Cross training for aerobic conditioning probably would also be thrown in the recipe.

How does one start ? Suggested web sites, viewlets, videos books ? Specific workouts ? Our first race is in Disney on October 17th. We do not have a boat yet so will start doing land practices then will travel to a db center to practice.

Thanks in advance for all suggestions..ohh and yeah as my username implies I am a triathlete who has turned to water , I also row crew.

I Apologize if this is not the correct forum. and if that is the case your suggestions would be appreciated. I am posting here because it seemed like this forum is pretty active compared to the others I found.

Don't forget some back exercises! Back extensions, pull ups/pull downs, low row. In your boat training, you should have a high emphasis on boat wide technique. Make sure you have the technique down before introducing power, otherwise your team will fall apart.

No you are at the right place.

Step one, find a coach.

Any suggestions we can provide here without actually meeting with your team and assessing fitness level and goals is really a huge guessing game. Not to mention lingo barriers. I have paddled for over 5 years on competitive teams and I have no idea what "boat wide" whatever he said refers to. I'm guessing some reference to full range of motion, but it could be anything.

Depending on your location, there are various paddle centers that each have a stable of coaches that they can refer people to. I know the Sunnyside location already has some BC/survivor teams training out of there so that may be an ideal place to check in with.

If there was a coach who trains/works with current BC teams they would likely be even more familiar with the particulars if any of starting from scratch for a BC team and what you really need to focus on initially and as you transition to more intense training (if that's even what you want).

Before you speak with a coach it would be helpful if your team had your goals and expectations at least roughed out. Coaches can do assessments and help fine tune those as well. Will you want them to be going with you to Orlando and will you be covering expenses? These are things you need to know and be prepared to discuss with a coach. If you need them there, and they won't be there or can't be there then they may not be a good fit for you etc.

Since you haven't locked up water time yet, you may also want to consider some pool paddling time initially as well.

Thanks so much for all your responses. I had not mentioned that we are in Orlando Florida and in this thread I am basically looking for pointers, links to documents, videos which would be a good way to start understanding dragon boating.
I understand that Dragonboating cannot be learned without getting wet ..lol.. however from personal experience with sculling I know that I got a lot of good pointers from some educational sculling videos and books which helped me tremendously with my technique.

If you are looking at links for videos and documents about technique and what not. Do a little bit of research on the author and the teams being exhibitied and make sure you find a good team to mimic. I've done a few searches on youtube and some of the "coaching" and "technique" videos make me cringe.

I agree with the above poster in that it is crucial for you to find a good coach. I'm not sure how big the dragonboat community in Florida is. If there are dragon boat clubs that offer coaching services in your area, contact them. As for resources, here are some good ones.

False Creek Training Manual. This is from one of the world's top teams and will discuss technique as well as physical conditioning. Note that the document's pages are ordered backwards.
http://paddlecalgary.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/False-Creek-DB-Manual.pdf

If the above is too advanced, googling "dragon boat stroke" will give you pictoral tutorials with simpler explanations, including this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4DQ2vTT3O8

Lastly, here's some advice for conditioning. The most important muscles in dragon boating are the latissimus dorsi (lats), erectus spinae (lower back), deltoids (shoulders), and pectoralis major (chest). Most people would also advocate training your quadriceps (legs), biceps, triceps, and core. Thus, dragon boating is a full body workout! If your team members have access to a gym, the following is a great resource for training all of the above muscles.
http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

For example, a workout routine could include the following exercises (equipment-free alternative in brackets):
- Bench press (push-up)
- Seated row (body-rows)
- Hyperextensions
- Leg press (lunges, split squats)
- Shoulder press (dive-bomber push-up)
- Russian twists (bridge, side bridge)
Be sure to include a warm-up set of a lighter weight before doing 2 to 3 work sets of 8 to 12 reps.

For aerobic conditioning, I would start them off on nice, even-paced distance jogging, perhaps a 2.5km distance. If you feel your team is up for it, you may eventually want them to do some interval training. A dragon boat race only takes 2 to 3 mins, after all. For people with joint issues, biking and erging are good alternatives.

I hope this helps! Let us know how your team progresses!

For a new team with a variety of fitness levels, I think that cardio training is the most important.
Getting people active and getting a strong "base level" will definitely help.

After that, there are tons of strength exercises that can be done, but it's probably most important that people are enjoying the team workouts. Emphasize core & arms/shoulders. Legs aren't as important in dragonboat as they are in rowing, especially for a new crew.
An extra benefit to emphasizing arms is that historically breast cancer survivors were discouraged from upper body exercises, which is why dragonboat was chosen as a sport to challenge that myth.

Once you're on the water, sync should be your top priority.
The boat will always go faster when all the paddlers are pushing at the same time.
Sync is probably the most important thing for a new crew to improve.

Thanks for all the feedback.

What is pool paddling ? Does it require special equipment or is it basically getting in a pool where one can stand at boat height and just feet the act of paddling ?

There are some specially configured pools with benches down the middle of the water at a height that mimics a dragon boat for teams to practice their stroke during the off season. These places usually have "pool" paddles that are narrower than dragon boat paddles as there is more resistance in a pool because you never actually move forward as you would in a dragon boat when you take a stroke. Some teams have invested in these paddles for their team and just book time at a local swimming pool and sit on the edge of the pool and practice their stroke. You can also use your own dragon boat paddle (if you already own one), but it will be a lot harder workout as you have to work that much harder to maintain your stroke because the water doesn't "move". "Pool" paddles
are usually around $20-$30 each. See link below for what they look like.

http://www.greyowlpaddles.com/pages/dragon.html

You sit at the side of the pool and paddle. It allows the coach to walk up beside you and physically adjust your stroke and comment on technique up close. This of course requires an experienced coach. If you don't have an experienced coach, then I guess you could try following a guide or video, but if you can't get slow motion or stills, you could really end up doing more harm than good.

For example, a picture of someone in a particular position, while giving some general information does little to address where your weight should be, how you got to that position and what forces you should be exerting from what parts of your body etc. The what did you do to get there, what are you trying to do while there and what do you need to do to get to the next picture are all pretty important.

Here in Toronto there are a couple "special" pools designed to simulate paddling on the water a little better. They allow for the water to flow/circulate around which while far from perfect, better simulates the feel of a moving boat in the water. If you want to try and find one of these I would suggest contacting local Paddling Centers (Canoe/Kayak, Outrigger, etc and see if they have or know of any). Living in Florida, with available water year round, I doubt there is any need for one.

Even in these pools, most use slimmed down paddles. Beginners using full paddles in the dead water of a swimming pool should be particularly careful of shoulder injury. If I had a beginner team under these conditions I would mostly do positioning of the paddler and paddle at/during the various phases of the stroke. I would be doing VERY LITTLE full paddling to avoid injury and even that would be in slow motion and minimal efforts.

Thanks for the pointers and clarification on pool paddling. My triathlon coach also got trained on olympic kayaking(where he stood on his knee though while paddling) pretty seriously do you think that this is a skill that could be transferred to Dragon Boating ? Can he help us out ?

I think your overthinking it bigtime here. You guys dont have that much paddleing exsperince..and you dont want to injure your brand new paddelers. You guys just need water time. I suggest swimming...its an amazing workout, and you guys have it warm there. You also mentioned that some of your team may not be in the best condition, make sure they all have common goals.For the more serious people on your team i suggest pushups and situps, to start. I belive that this person who paddles kayak, would of most likly mentioned if he could paddle marathon or outrigger or even dragonboat,in which case..he would be an awesome person to use. The most important thing is to learn the stroke right the first time, as a team. Get a coach before you do much paddeling.

For a beginner dragonboat, the most important thing to focus on is being in sync.
Get 20 folding chairs and arrange them 2x10, like a d-boat. sit the team down, hold your paddles, or broomsticks, or whatever, and do mock strokes in the air.

Do this for a long time until everyone moves as one solid unit. start with a 60 stroke per minute rate, and keep steady movements until everyone is together. On the water this is the biggest issue. Anyone out of sync or clinking paddles or splashing water is not moving the boat. you MUST be together.

For the stroke, get a little body lean back and forth, keep the outside arm straight, or with a slight bend - the key is that it the elbow joint not move during the stroke or recovery. the outer arm is rigid. Twist and reach forward with the paddle, enter the water cleanly, and pull thru, sitting up with the anti-twist.

Practice this motion many times on land as a team in sync. you will do fine in the water. But you must stay 100% in sync. No caterpillaring, no out of phase movements... all 20 moving as 1 unit.

or call around Tampa and see about renting a boat for a practice afternoon. I know of a few d-boats there. someone may rent you a practice session/coaching session. check with the Tampa D-Boat club, Tampa Paddling club, or the Pink Dragon Ladies team.

"Get 20 folding chairs and arrange them 2x10, like a d-boat. sit the team down, hold your paddles, or broomsticks, or whatever, and do mock strokes in the air. "

Are you kidding me? Oh god please don't make another team do this. It is useless and makes the team look like a bunch of morons.

Well honestly I thought it was a pretty cool idea - the chairs
Please make a note that 90% of this group has not been any kind of boat or has not been actually active, they have gone through Surgeries which are limiting their range of motions and some are downright in the dump post-chemo / treatments.
So I think that is a great idea to give them a feel on what to do how to move while the coach(whoever that might be) is walking around and making necessary corrections.
I do understand that being on the water will totally change the dynamics, with the water height, movement of the boat .. and other variables.
I am getting soo much out of all the suggestions.. also downloaded the False Creek manual and cramming on it.
Keep'em coming..
And yes will definitely try to encourage incorporating swimming initially.

I have been paddling with the Tampa Bay Pink Dragon Ladies (did 2 sessions so far .. but do not want to go on the boat before acquiring the correct skill.. do not want to have incorrect muscle memory which would be a pita to correct afterwards. )
If anyone is going to Vermont this weekend please root for them as they have really embraced us.

You have a great presense of teams in the tampa area, so network around and see if you can ask one of the top teams for assistance. If its for the pink ladies, I don't see them saying no but if it is for a club team that is just starting out that could be their competition, there may be some hesitation. I think if that is the case, you are still growing the sport and see no prob;em getting help from any of the follwing teams:

Reach out to the Coach of TECO and see if he has any time or ideas that will point you in the right direction and I know that anyone of them(TECO paddlers) could give you pointers but I would ask their coach first before approaching his paddlers. Also, the Blade Runners are very experienced to the point that anyone of them could possibly give you some instruction.

resources:

you already may have been here but...http://www.tampabaydragonboats.com/Home/tabid/54/Default.aspx

a few threads back a guy name Tyrone from www.dragonglobe.com promoted his website that had some information for new teams forming. I would check out his resources page and reviews page.

Lastly, the Disney race is your first race, so if you want to get a warm up race under your belt, there is a smaller race in Haulover Miami that is on Oct.3-4
http://www.miamidragonboat.com/

Good Luck and see ya on the water!

Eli's post is rather disturbing as to the development of Dragon Boating in Florida.

As with the previous thread on the community there, it seems utterly ridiculous that any team could have access to facilities restricted because they may currently be, or at some point could be a competitor to someone else...

Sweet jesus people don't you realize that this is WHAT YOU WANT. The more absolutely the merrier. 5 good teams will turn into 10 good teams and 20 rec teams and so on and so on.

While not every team is ever going to love every other team you pretty much have two choices. You can work towards a healthy competitive and friendly environment like in Toronto and Montreal (just examples) or you can go the way of some other areas where all they can do is slam and trash talk each other.

The Dragon Boating scene would not be anywhere near as big in Toronto without the level of competition. Everyone has a team they are trying to catch and/or someone(s) they are trying to stay ahead of.

It really sounds like there are areas such as Tampa, that are ripe for a good organization to provide access to boats and coaching.

Oh the pink dragon ladies have been absolutely wonderful ! They have kept their arms and boat open at all times. Sometimes even saying that they would take off some regulars off the boat so we can give it a try if we want to !
I am passing all the suggestions to the Boat captain and the appointed coach and I was advised that they are contacting the Dragon Boat community in Tampa officially now.
Phew !
Thanks very much for everyones input we certainly got a really good feel of what we need to do, how we need to start.

Disturbing? I don't see how what i said was disturbing, I just cannot speak for their teams but from what I have seen, they should not have any issue with an established team helping them out. Unless of course you think that the hesitation comment was to refer to as prevention of growth in the sport but that is not what was intended. If any area is an example of good sportsmanship it is tampa.

As with the previous thread on the community there, it seems utterly ridiculous that any team could have access to facilities restricted because they may currently be, or at some point could be a competitor to someone else....... this happen in Miami not in Tampa

The Tampa Bay Dragon Boat Club (TBDBC.com), host of the Tampa Blade Runners provides most of the db training in Tampa. There is a huge pool of trained steers who have trained most of the corporate/recreational teams in Tampa Bay. TBDBC offers practices three times a week (Tues & Thurs) nights and Saturday mornings. Go to the website for contact info. The first two practices are free. We can also offer advise on how to set up your organization. Our club has about 100 members.

The Pink Dragon Ladies are an excellent breast cancer dragon boat team, and were the first organized dragon boat club in Tampa, and the first breast cancer survivor team in Florida. They know what they're doing, have members who regularly attended GWN camp and/or are members of TBDBC.

TECO is exclusively a corporate team.

The Paddles Up! Dragon Boat Racing in Canada book recently published is a good primer for anyone. Also, the book Paddling Against the Current recently pubished by the Pink Dragon Ladies can prepare you and your teammates for what's coming.

It will take more than 1 or 2 practices for you to learn proper technique. Also, different teams use different techniques. The TECO stroke is very different from the Blade Runners and also both are different than used by TEAM USA.

Keep up with the PDL's. Keep going to their practices, and try to pick up a few TBDBC practices.

Good luck!

Pick up the "Paddlers up book" It has lots of stuff for everybody to read up on.
You need to do small boats.. perhaps call Peter Buday and do outrigger. Its not that bad to balance.
Perhaps join an outrigger club or sprint club. There are a few around.
If you want to paddle - then paddle - if you want to be a runner - then run.
But bottom line ---- time on the water...... technique....
Most of all have some fun...