Some philosophical questions to mull over through this long cold winter:

Where is the sport of dragonboating going? Has it hit its peak and is flat and steady or is it on the decline? Some festivals have gone kaput, some are on a steady decline and others have hit a steady state. How can we revive some of these festivals that are about to go under? ie get more local teams to form and get the entries back up?

What is it about Canada that we are a powerhouse nation in the sport of dragonboat if we are covered over by ice about 50% of the time. Countries like Australia than never see snow with about the same population should be kicking our butts!

Why doesnt Ottawa have a powerhouse team like what we see from the GTA, Montreal, Sudbury and Vancouver if it has an annual festival that continually hits 160 teams?

Does it not drive you absolutely batty to go to a race where there is lane bias? You get that crappy lane by chance or misfortune and you finish worse than you should have.

Following question to the one above, Which venues do NOT have lane bias?

Why do I want to make an A team to go to the worlds and bring back medals that most if not all Canadians do not give a hoot about? We never make the news. And to boot I have to pay big bucks to go to the worlds. Sponsors do not want to fork out $$$ to teams because there is no value in it since no one gives a hoot about how well we did at the worlds.

How do we keep those Yankees from posting on this forum about Disney Predictions?

With all this technology we are developing in the different sectors, why can no one come up with a trainer that emulates the dragonboat or flat water stroke without being a paddle pool? Ie something that can be in a workout room or my basement. Something that makes me rotate, turn and reach, plant a blade(emulation) witha strong catch, derotate using the core muscles, drive down with the top arm, push off the legs, finish the stroke at the end all the things we are trying to do in the boat. Something that emulates the resistance of water through the stroke. Something that would provide a lot of resistance for the initial start strokes of the race, but would have a smaller amount of resistance for the mid part of the race. It would also allow a rate of up to 70 strokes per minute. The erg does not do it good for rowers only.

Vermont Waterways paddle adaptor for the Concept rowing machine is very good.

KayakPro multistroke

Marilyn Bell has definite lane bias

what if the festivals move to 10 men boats. the fees would be cheaper and the clubs can easily enter 10 paddlers.

The reason DB festivals work for 2 reasons
1) Because the organizers can raise a lot of money at $750 to $1500 per team and afford to pay reasonable amounts to rent boats.
2)Because boats can be rented from GWN or their competators.
Teams pay this amount because it is only $25 to $50 per paddler because there are 25 people on a team.
Smaller teams = less money = less incentive for organizers = less money for boats , not worthwhile for GWN or others to rent boats.
The whole system breaks down.
Want smaller boats paddle something else such as OC6 , OC2 ,OC1 marrathon , whatever.

The phenomenon of dragonboat is now flatlined or on a small decline. Starting in the late 90's dragonboating really kicked into gear here in canada and hit its peak around the 2003 - 2006. From then its on the decline with the small festivals either going under or are at a constqant number of teams, but much less that at their peak. The bigger festivals have kind of figured it out with bring in entertainment and being well organized. It's the weekend warrior that fills out the greater number of entries; not us competative type A personalities. Ottawa does a superb job fo entertainment especially when handing out the medals. They really have it firgured out and the fact that they hit the max 160 teams per year shows it. Why they do not come out with a travelling competative team beats me.

... my 2 cents

Montreal also is wonky in lane 1

Regarding paddling ergs, I have a paddleone machine that is pretty good at mimicking the components of a canoe stroke. Only problem I find with it is that it is boring - you can check it out at www.paddleone.com - it was originally designed by a very good Quebec marathon canoe racing, Patrick Lynch, but now appears to be owned by Mario Blackburn (also from Quebec)

Regarding working hard to get on an A team to get the world championships - if you are doing it to obtain fame and glory, you will never succeed! Of course no one (other than the participants, and perhaps a few misguided friends and relatives) gives a rat's ass about how Canada's dragonboat teams do internationally - it is not a high profile sport (and never will be), it is boring to watch, and even sprint canoeing with its Olympic appeal rarely catches the public's interest for more than a day or two. You should only be in this sport if you like to paddle, and not for any secondary gain. I am always amazed, even when looking around at my own teammates, that a lot of dragonboaters seem to not enjoy paddling, and seem to be forcing themselves to do it to achieve some artificial goals they have set for themselves. My advice - find some other sport that you actually enjoying doing if you don't enjoy the dragonboat practices. My wife helps me keep my perspective on the medals - she requests I keep them in the outhouse at the cottage, and she is right - the medals mean diddly-squat to anyone outside of dragonboating, so don't ever expect to get fame and glory out of this sport.

Well said doctor canoe, I have been doing it for 20 years, and honetly I dont even tell people I dragon boat unless they bring it up/ It is sad but i do find it better this way.

there are more festivals, paddlers, teams, and even media coverage now than there was ten years ago. Some of the large festivals have gotten a bit smaller but way, way, way more new festivals are created each year than festivals folding. Look at the number of festivals GWN or 22Dragons produce. It's growing no question.

If you are paddling for attention then you are simply childish. Do a sport because you love it. Why would anyone sponsor you to go to worlds?? You buy the ticket because you want to race at worlds.

Ergs suck. I would rather use a rowing erg than a paddling erg.

My thoughts.

Now rip them apart!

Good words of wisdom Dr. Canoe. When I tell people I dragonboat they say "that's cute" or they ask me how my rowing team is doing.

I love to paddle outrigger and dragonboat. What keeps me in dragonboat is the team aspect. I've made hundreds of friends and acquaintances and that means more to me than any medals.

I mentioned to a friend that I dragon boat explaining why I had been in Europe at the worlds , his response was " Yeah , thats what all the fat guys do". Some truth to that.

..and so if you're sick of the lack of attention you, or your team get, you're probably doing it for the wrong reasons.

First of all, no one I have ever told that I race dragon boats has ever looked down on it. Most are impressed. Remember, MOST adults are doing NOTHING phyiscal at all. Perhaps I have been lucky to not run into too many sporting snobs.

And about those snobs, sounds like we have a few in our ranks. "I am a champion dragon boat paddler, but I find us to be fat and silly." Wow, well aren't you too-cool-for-school. Seriously? F#ck off. The sport doesn't need you. Go do something you can feel proud of, we can get by without you.

Packing it in for the season soon. It will feel good for a few weeks, and then the it sets in.

I love this sport.

I didn't see many fat paddlers on the Philipino men's team. Any fat chicks on the canadian women's team??

At premier worlds the paddlers are fit. At a community festival who cares if there are fat paddlers? The more the better it is for the sport.

And by the way you can be fat and fit.

That comment will really bother insecure people fit people.

There are fat people in every sport. You just don't hear about them.

"There are fat people in every sport. You just don't hear about them."

True that. And I don't have any problem with it. I do have a problem with people who suggest dragon boat racing is a joke because some fat people do it. I'm just glad that it is so accessible that so many people do it. I'm also happy that there is a top tier where people do it so well. Both sides can coexist, I think, and no one needs to look down their nose about it.

I am really fat. No joke. But i will race anyone and I really belive I wont just beat you but will have my boat on the dock before you finish. I am up for a race, so bring it on.

Ooooooo! Internet tough guy! I love it.

The point with the original "fat guys do it" is just don't take your self too seriously , nobody else does , nor should they. We are all out there paddling because we like it. Of course most people don't understand or care. Same way I feel about most sports I don't do. I know squat about ultimat frisbee or lawn bowling and don't care. I could care less about profesional sports , especially hockey. I enjoy what I do and love what my kids do.

Wow, the winter doldrums has hit Canada and hard! This is like watching re-runs of second rate sitcoms. You can almost feel the boredom and misery of pws (paddle withdrawal syndrome).

I can see a lot of slightly grumpy paddlers sitting in front of their computers trying to stir up some of the adrenaline one gets from a good race or a good word-fight on the forum, kind of glad that the pressure of training, racing & trying to balance regular job & family is over but still feeling kind of lost now that the season is over. (I feel sorry for the non-dragon boating spouses and friends - it must be akin to watching your spouse go through a mid-life crisis.) Luckily, the holidays are around the corner so the families will soon be spared the pws problems, the db'ers will soon be gluttoning out on Christmas treats and feeling guilty about the extra pounds that need paddled off and after a moderate period of hibernation spring will arrive and with it a new season!

"Why would anyone sponsor you to go to worlds?? You buy the ticket because you want to race at worlds."


You're clueless or simply lazy. The U.S. teams and sometimes their individual paddlers always finds sponsors to fund the Worlds. Sometimes the sponsorship is partial, but often the sponsorship covers the entire trip.

If you don't ask for sponsorship, you will never receive it.

Oct. 25 10:18 A.M.
"Pressure of training is over" ? At this time of year you should be either building cardio base with big hours OR developing strength with serious gym time.

Or logging hours in small boats.

Living and paddling in Australia I can tell you the reason why the Canadians are slightly better than us is because the sport is on so much of a bigger level over there. Over here we have alot fewer numbers, and even fewer competitive numbers. The sport here is too social and corporate, while only a few clubs and individuals within the clubs are actually strong/fit and talented enough to deliver a world championship trophy to the country.

The sport is viewed by many great OC1 and Kayak guys as a bit of a joke partly due to the administration of it and partly due to the politics of it all.

I'm holding hope personally for Florida 2011 as I know if we manage to get our top 20 guys into a boat together we'll match it with most countries in the world. But getting your top 20 together is harder than it would seem.

Gotta love competing against the Aussies. They are a great bunch and party like no others at the end of race celebrations

Same attitude here in Canada. Same problem getting top paddlers interested in national DB teams at any age, even masters and grand masters.

Let the fur fly!

Probably because there aren't enough people with the combination of enthusiasm, energy, money and free time to devote to the travel needed to be a super duper team. There is excellent coaching here (anyone heard of Bruce Raymond?) although there is not the same "cult of the coach" as in the GTA and Montreal areas. Every year RCC and Scott Seaby pull together a crew for two practices and two days of the Ottawa Festival, but that crew is never intended to race at any other time.

However, there's a young (well new, mostly young, and anyone old is very experienced) crew on the way up - Gung Ho - and when they stop trying to jump the start, they could impress big time.

And, the Ottawa based "seniors" who played with Madawaska for years then with several of the "national" teams sometimes talk at weight training about making a crew some year. Just need someone to do the paperwork then fit it into the coaching schedules and then, watch out Canada ...

(Makes us sound like a bunch of old geezers )

Ottawa has a very high potential of putting together A division teams given the venue in which they can train. All they need is someone to drive the effort, The Quebec teams have a good system as well as the GTA and Vancouver. If smaller cities like Sudbury can put a high level team together, imagine what Ottawa could do.

Pressure's off but I'm still training - db team is still on the water unless it freezes more than a cm thick ice but the frequency is down from 4x a week to 1-2x plus gym & cardio. It's just that the pressure of competition-season training is off because I like to have the chance to spend time on other activities like kayaking with my other half, hiking or skiing - or even - oh my gosh, doing NOTHING for a day except reading the moaning on this forum. What a luxury!

Ottawa had 178 teams last year and 190 in 2007. Thier sell out is 190. It also has no lane bias, and huge entertainment component to boot. The coaching is amazing as well.

178 teams. 8 good ones.

Ottawa is horrible for Sport racing, it's very good for corporate racing. Don't waste your money travelling there.

"178 teams. 8 good ones."

Most festivals are like that. If you attract more than 8 good teams, it's an exceptional regatta, no matter how many teams there are in total.

Shame on the original poster of this thread!

Lack of recognition of what's happening in FL is not good for the sport of dragon boating internationally. Your insistance on this just being a forum for Canadian dragon boaters is way behind the times, immature & inappropriate.

If you want to promote international discussion about dragon boat, post on the IDBF forum.

http://dragonboatnet.com/Forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=13

This forum was originally established for Central Canada. Nobody said it was supposed to serve the higher purpose you seem to expect of it.

While I find some of the U.S. DBF vs. flatwater fights and the McNamara vs. the other guy fights entertaining, I agree that it would be great if the Florida dragon boaters had their own forum. The ratio of posts to the number and quality of the teams seems way out of line.

Why not set up your own Florida dragon boat forum?

Wow, what's with all the hate? If you don't like the posts, then read something else. Its not like someone's in front of you talking.

Erg: Tryhttp://paddleone.com/ (A Canadian made erg; I think it's good; and you can paddle at 100 if you want to)

Funding: If you enjoy what you are doing you don't need it; or simply ask some companies and they may help you out. If you don't ask you will not receive $$. Or just start running festivals.

Auzzie: it costs about 2X more to get from auzzie to Prague than from North America to Prague. Auzzie to just about anywhere cost more than North America. I can understand why it's difficult to get a top team to go to places outside of Auzzie. Respectful Question: Where was the top team in Syndey? That race should have been easy to field a dominant team, right? I assume they were there but did not do as well as they expected?

Canada: The Canadian men were a force to be considered when the Toronto group lead by Cain and company were dominant and winning everything for many world cycles/events. They were simply the best. Since the old guard stopped DB-ing the medals won on the men's side has gone away with the old guard. In Syndey the USA won top honors in mens and mixed and in Prague it was China in mens, mixed and women. But the Canadian women have held their own on top for many worlds cycles and now have China (#1 in Prague) and USA to contend with in the future. Though the candian women did not take top honors in Prague they did so the many worlds before Prague when they were a class act above the rest. Canadian Mixed Team - Cheers on winning the Mixed 500 in Prague

The World: In Prague there were four different Gold medalist in the Men's category: China/500, USA/2000, Slovakia/1000 and the philippines/200. I'm pretty sure most would say the Philippines or China was the class act of Prague. The women's class was a three way race between china (3xgold), usa and canada - china taking honors. Mixed Gold medalists were Philippines/200 and Canada/500 - Philippines taking top honors for mixed.

The POWERHOUSES are spread across the world, not just Canada, with CHINA taking top honors in all categories combined in 2009. And that is why we race every two years.

Great questions.

"Though the candian women did not take top honors in Prague..."

Womens 2000m
1) Canada
2) USA
3) China
Womens 1000m
1) China
2) USA
3) Canada
Womens 200m
1) China
2) Canada
3) USA
Womens 500m
1) Canada
2) China
3) USA

So Canada - 2 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze
vs China - 2 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze
vs USA - 2 silver, 2 bronze

So who did take top honours in the womens?

Not too dissimilar; it's not a clear margin of victory.

What lanes did they paddle in 200/500/1000 m?

China won the Nations Cup. That pretty much sums up who the "powerhouse" is for the next two years.

"This forum was originally established for Central Canada."

True, but non-Central Canada topics have been covered here for many year now. This forum has clearly expanded beyond one region. Deal with it.

"True, but non-Central Canada topics have been covered here for many year now. This forum has clearly expanded beyond one region. Deal with it."

Re-read (or read properly) the original post.

I have no problem with non-Central Canada topics being here. My comment was that the "ratio of posts to the number and quality of the teams seems way out of line". It is great to get posts and topics from other areas, but the endless conversations between Florida paddlers could be taken elsewhere.

Does this seem proportionate?

Prague Predictions - 46 posts
Montreal Predictions - 87 posts
Nationals Predictions - 99 posts
Stratford Predictions - 46 posts
GWN Sports Regatta - 143 posts

and then... Disney Predictions - 144 posts. Given the depth of competition at the Disney festival, does it deserve more discussion than the festivals listed above?

"Does this seem proportionate?"

So let me get this straight. If a team or regatta is not as high quality as another team/regatta, then the posts on this forum about that team/regatta should be fewer. Can you be any more elitist?

If you don't like the subject matter of a particular thread, don't read it. But why do you care which threads get more posts?

I for one welcome all DB related topics. I don't read them all but I love how this is the central place to go in the world for DB info.

The Aussie 2007 crew in the end had far too many heavy boys in the crew, and far too many olympic level C1 paddlers or Kayakers who thought they were super stars and would turn up to training when they felt like it.

The coaching was ordinary and you would be right in poking fun at our Mens crew being unable to take at least some silverware from the event. On home soil and no costs compared to an international trip, we should have done alot better than we did, but again the organisation at the coaching and administration level was not sufficient to achieve these things.

If I get your meaning, I would have to agree.

I too wonder why the Stratford thread isn't much longer.

"The Aussie 2007 crew in the end had far too many heavy boys in the crew, and far too many olympic level C1 paddlers"

How many Olympic level C1 paddlers does Australia have? I think they only had one entered at the Beijing Olympics.

Yeah, I hate when my team gets all cluttered up with those crappy Olympic C1 paddlers... WTF???

"How many Olympic level C1 paddlers does Australia have? I think they only had one entered at the Beijing Olympics."

Um, any country will only have one or two c1 paddlers in the olympics. Unless I'm mistaken you don't get to enter more than one, unless you split the distances between paddlers. You could have a guy in the 500m, another guy in the 1000m, a couple more gus in the 500m c2, etc. But that's going beyond just the c1.

Do I have that right? Likely close.

However, you could have a whole BUNCH of high performance paddlers, even if they don't personally make the Olympics. Lots of THOSE around, in lots of countries.

!!!!TANGENT ALERT!!!

As an aside, that's why I think the whole Olympics = sport-worthiness argument is bullsh!t. Most athletes in most sports will never, EVER compete in the Olympics. That fact does not invalidate their sport.