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Philly fest

October 2 2011 at 5:29 PM
anon 

 
What happened in Philly this weekend?

 
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Anonymous

The worst race ever?

October 2 2011, 5:55 PM 

Started late and ended late with ugliness in between. Chaos, mayhem, disorganization, boats sinking, rescue boats sinking, hours long delays, elimination of the semifinals so teams only raced twice (some once as they could not wait around for the "final" or consolation "final"), a starting line that was only a concept, 8 lanes (always too tight on this river) with no held start and a current that was fast led to haphazard starts with full boat length differences between teams. They used Champions that the fat rec teams could not handle and some of the steerers could not leading to the flipping, all teams then had to paddle 18 for second race. All this for a $1600 entry fee. AND the course laid out was only 350-400 meters or so and with the current teams were breaking 1:30!

Doubt there ever has been a regatta this disastrous, go to the June race run by the Philly team if you want to race in this city: 4 lanes, held starts, run by members of the national teams, better weather, etc.

As far as the "racing" I left before the A final (DC, Wyverns, Ghost ship from Canada were top times) but whoever won likely just "survived" and was able to keep their team intact and cheat the start in this madhouse sprint.

 
 

Re: Philly fest

October 3 2011, 7:57 AM 

Yep; concur with prevous post..The Philly Madhouse Festival is a good name. It's really too bad, this used to be a great event.
Three Dboats capsized, and then incompetent Philly Police sunk thier own rescue boat because they overloaded it with too many dragonboaters aboard. It was just luck that nobody was seriously hurt.
The Champion Dboats are not stable enough for heavy rec crews in the strong river current. Go back to using the much more stable BuK boats.


... And to make matters worse, the crews that had been drinking were allowed to go back on the water, and this was after it was clear that conditions were dangerous. They were downing last beers in the marshalling areas!!!

This fest is a money grab for CL, always has been..but I think the gravy train is over.
I doubt you will see any competitive crews return, nor the recreational crews who are concerned about safety.
The drunks will come back..they don't really want to paddle anyway.




 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 3 2011, 11:19 AM 

That's what happens when you go with pan am dragon boat.
I'm definitely a GWN fan and I think that after what their guys did for our local boat owners last fall the organizers should be ashamed of their move to another provider! My team won't be back!

 
 
Anonymous

Charlie Foxtrot

October 3 2011, 11:31 AM 

It was a train wreck. Worst Philly festival ever. Races behind schedule, rescue boats that didn't know how to rescue, then needed to be rescued, "rolling" starts with boats out of lanes and 5-10 seats out of alignment.

Heard the "A" Final was run in the dark, and went to a photo finish. Say what? How does that work? Does the finish line camera have night vision?

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 3 2011, 11:39 AM 

Well, I guess we should take comfort in the fact that it could have been worse.
If the weather had gone as forecast we could have been spending those hours of marshaling in a cold rain.

My impressions of Philly:
If you want to get good parking you need to be there before 6:00AM. We were supposed to race at 9:15... we got on the water(after marshaling twice) after noon!! Most of our team didn't want to eat right before a race and cramp up, so we were starving by the time we raced.

The starts were a joke. The final race was on the water over 30min(and went to Ready Ready twice) before the horn. Most races started with half a boat length advantage to one team.

After the boats flipping and the Cops going over we never knew if the next race would be the last all day long. We were told that if one boat even gets out of lane the whole thing would be called off. By the end of the day I wasn't sure if it would be a relief or a disappointment if they called it.

I understand that adversity played a hand, but the best measure of an organizer is how they deal with things that don't go to plan... and in some ways it was down right dangerous. We had a boating event with 180 people on the water at any one time, and the rescue boats didn't know a damn thing about water rescue! Both police boats were loading themselves way beyond capacity, and I'm surprised only one flipped. I saw the other(smaller) police boat go past with 4 inches between the water and the gunnels. It was crawling along with the bow wave licking the edge of the gunnel. We are lucky no one was trapped under the police boat that did go over!

180 people trusting their lives to people who don't know that a boat has a max capacity. I'd hate to see what their first aid skills are like.

 
 
ano

Re: Philly fest

October 3 2011, 3:27 PM 

It's all over for the Philadelphia Dragon Boat Festival...10 years and out!

The door is now wide open in Philly for someone to run a new event.


 
 
A Money Moss

Re: Philly fest

October 3 2011, 3:31 PM 

come on it wasn't that bad was it? So Mike K took over Philly and GWN lost out. That's business. The conditions were bad yes that's a given. They couldn't install the starting docks or a full course (they weren't given permission) can't blame Mike K for that.

Pan Am & CL have to be blamed for bad boats, inept starter, marshaling, drunkenness, safety boats and horrible delays.

My team isn't going back in 2012.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 4 2011, 1:42 AM 

Isn't Joe Sinkovic part of Pan Am Dragon Boat? Why, yes he is!


 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 4 2011, 8:59 AM 

Philly organizers have made a number of poor decisions of late. Last year they sat on their cancellation for nearly a full day, allowing many out-of-town teams to begin an unnecessary trip. And they made no conciliatory gestures to the teams that couldn't make the rescheduled date. Then they dumped the provider whose staff had gone above and beyond the call helping out local boat owners during last year's flood. For what? To save a few bucks?

This year's fiasco sounds like just deserts. You get what you pay for.

 
 
Anon

Re: Philly fest

October 4 2011, 9:51 AM 

Quite simply, the worst dragonboat festival I have ever been to. We won't be going back either.

Someone needs to re-evaluate decisions made during this event.

 
 
anon

Re: Philly fest

October 4 2011, 11:32 AM 


Was it a Champion Police Rescue boat that sunk too?

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 4 2011, 11:39 AM 

Big blow to Pan Am. They had a poor showing at worlds and now a complete disaster in Philly. 7-8 years ago Mike K would have bashed any boat but the BuK. Now that he is selling Champions he does not see the huge difference.

Community events should not use champion, they are simply too tippy.

I'll wait to decide if I'm going back. If Pan Am is back I'm not.

 
 
Anonymous

Post-Flip Video

October 4 2011, 12:07 PM 

Doesn't show the actual collision, capsizes, and rescue that required rescue, but you can see the able fleet coming to everyone's aid...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSPn154mUDA

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 4 2011, 12:26 PM 

Here is the post-race email that Carol Lee Lindner (race organizer and profiteer) sent out to all the captains. She's shameless...



Captains,

Please forward to your teammates.

I wanted to share my thoughts with you about our 10th Anniversary.

As you know the weather has been very challenging for us this season leading up to and on race day. But I went outside very late one night early last week and had a conversation with God. I expressed my gratitude for all the joy and love, and, yes, the challenges that have come into my life because of dragon boat racing; and whatever the weather leading up to Saturday and/or Saturday, nothing could take those life-changing years away from me and for that I was grateful. The sun came out the next day.

I know how hard we all worked in preparation for October 1st. However, I do not think any of us really understood the impact that the weather conditions had on our river, especially since Saturday was such a beautiful day!

I spent every day at the race course with the Pan Am staff after they arrived on Monday, and I saw hard they were working every single minute of the day under very difficult conditions to make our event the very best that it could be. They worked tirelessly from morning until night and must be commended for the daily and exhausting effort that they put forth. Cancellation and/or postponement were out of the question.

The river was relentless, and did not allow us to have the luxury of our held starts or lanes. It was a realization for me to learn how crucial both are to the success of an event like ours.

I think you all know me well enough by now to know that every detail of yesterdays event will be looked into by me and all those involved even the running out of toilet paper!! I welcome your thoughts and suggestions.

I know that many of you have heard me say the following when perhaps things did not go as you had hoped for and/or planned: The day that I am perfect, I will expect perfection of others. None of us are perfect, not even our river. But all of us should be understanding of the fact that if we live, things happen.

A very special thank you to Fairmount Park and the Philadelphia police. Their continued support and guidance throughout the day were extraordinary and heartwarming.

Let us move forward together in preparation for next years Festival on Saturday, October 6, 2012 with our heads held high knowing that we, Pan Am Dragon Boat, and our race day volunteers did everything possible to make our 10th Anniversary a success and for that we must be extremely proud, and, yes, grateful that we have the opportunity and the ability to be involved with such a life-changing event as the Philadelphia International Dragon Boat Festival.

Thank you for being a very important and special part of something that means so much to each of us

With continued admiration, respect, and affection

Carol Lee

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 4 2011, 12:35 PM 

There was an easy solution. Pan Am should have just cancelled the event like GWN did last year.
Then let Carol Lee take the heat. Problem solved!

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 4 2011, 12:44 PM 

"But I went outside very late one night early last week and had a conversation with God. I expressed my gratitude for all the joy and love, and, yes, the challenges that have come into my life because of dragon boat racing; and whatever the weather leading up to Saturday and/or Saturday, nothing could take those life-changing years away from me and for that I was grateful. The sun came out the next day."

Wow. She put in writing that she had a "conversation with God" (God speaks to Carol Lee, huh?).

 
 
Shocked

Re: Philly fest

October 4 2011, 1:16 PM 

...."heart warming support from the Philadelphia Police?"
The Phil Police flipped and sunk their own rescue boat! It was more like 'hearstopping'.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 4 2011, 1:21 PM 

Here is Kerkmann's damage control email...



To all teams:

First of all, I would like to thank all the teams that came out and participated in the Philadelphia International Dragon Boat Festival on Saturday.

I thank you for your patience and tolerance in a day filled with unexpected outcomes.

The day included the collision of two boats, causing the capsizing of two boats. We recognize that this was subsequent to a capsizing that happened earlier.

We are especially thankful to the Police Marine Unit at the scene, and the conduct of the paddlers involved in this incident and are grateful that everyone was safe.

As an event production company, let me assure you that we view this incident very seriously. While our own internal investigation is ongoing and has not been concluded, I can point out that we are conducting a rigorous review of every aspect of the event. We are paying special attention to the conduct of our own staff and the systems we had in place to run the event. It is our mission to provide the utmost quality and professionalism to festivals and we will look to be constructive for the future while doing everything we possibly can to remedy the damage done in the past. Early indications are that my own personal lapse in judgment around the ability to operate the festival without the traditional equipment & infrastructure in place is the major contributing factor behind the series of events that caused delays and put the safety of participants in question, i.e. - the inability to install start docks.

The scope of our investigation will not include any matters pertaining to the incident with the Police boat. While we are interested in any and all information on what happened with the Police boat, we believe that we are not in a position to offer any opinion on that incident. We are cooperating fully with all of the proper authorities on this matter.

I would like to provide some specific comment to the issue of safety. Safety is in the forefront of our conduct as a company. Prior and during the event, we repeatedly emphasized the importance of the element of safety on the water. We took specific steps to enhance the safety aspect of the event during the day of the event. We viewed that any safety concerns took precedence over keeping the event on schedule.

I have personally been involved in dragon boat event production for over 20 years. I have nine years of experience with the Philadelphia event. We brought staff with extensive experience to service this event including individuals with many years experienced with working at this event, and several of the top individuals in dragon boat event production in North America.

Many of you have sent Carol Lee emails expressing your concerns, criticisms, and suggestions. As the CEO of the event production company, I can tell you that Carol Lee fulfilled the entire scope of her responsibilities as the overall event organizer 110% correctly with the utmost attention to detail. She is to be commended for her hard work and diligence. Her rightful expectation is to hand the event over to the production company and to enjoy the thrill and excitement of the day with you all.

If you have input on this event, I invite you to email me personally at mike@panamdragonboat.com. Please put PHL event in your subject line and I will review and respond to each every individual email. You can let me know your comments, suggestions, even your own personal story that you may want to share. I would like to include your input as part of our investigation into this matter.

We recognize that there are specific issues regarding pre-event river conditions, steering and start docks.

On behalf of Pan American Dragon Boat Association, LLC, I would like to state that we take full responsibility for all aspects and deficiencies related to race production.

I assure you that I will personally and diligently pursue all matters related to what happened to my utmost capability.


Yours truly,

Mike Kerkmann, CEO

Pan American Dragon Boat Association, LLC

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 4 2011, 1:29 PM 

While Kerkmann appears to take responsibility, he also shirks responsibility by referring to "unxepected events." Really? Squeezing eight tippy Champion boats, filled mainly with novices, per race in a river with a swift current provided "unexpected events"? Is he serious? Plenty of experienced paddlers predicted a disaster the day before. Kerkmann must have known that risk of disaster was high; after all, he cited his "over 20 years" of dragon boat race experience in his email.

He also tries to let Carol Lee off the hook. Baloney. She could have made the call to cancel this race. Of course, she hired him, so it's in his best interest to kiss her rear now after making a mess of things.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 4 2011, 1:32 PM 

This Saturday was bound to happen sooner or later. The event should have been cancelled or at least postponed like last year. I guess there was allot of pressure to try. That river is notorious.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 4 2011, 1:42 PM 

I remember another person who used to claim to talk to God. A certain George W. We remember how that worked out...

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 4 2011, 1:46 PM 

I predict that for the next 200 events in North America, there will be a capsize incident. My plan is to say "I told you so" only after it happens. Otherwise I'll shut my face.Oh, I also predict that there will be a lot of stupid comments on the forum today.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 4 2011, 3:05 PM 

^ your post being the rule not the exception.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 4 2011, 3:34 PM 

Champion boats suck Mike. I know it's difficult for you to accept that. If you keep running races in them nobody will have faith in Pan AM.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 4 2011, 3:58 PM 

Champion boats don't suck, per se. but when you take 8 of them, fill them with novice crews, using some novice steerers, and cram them into a space where you could only fit 4 IDBF regulation lanes (13.5m), it's just a disaster waiting to happen.

The collision that flipped the two boats took some effort: The boat in Lane 4 yawed across two lanes before plowing into Lane 6! We could see it coming from shore - the boat in Lane 4 was out of control right off the start line, veering wildly to left, then back to the right.

It wasn't even that hard of a collision, but it appeared that none of the paddlers in either boat knew to brace - hands and paddles went up in the air, and over the whole thing went.

I'm glad no-one was hurt, but it was just insane. I can't believe racing was allowed to continue after they flipped the Police boat. We thought for sure the day was over then and there.


 
 
Philly Paddler

Re: Philly fest

October 4 2011, 5:51 PM 

This was our 5th time at the Philly festival and it was embarrassing, let alone irresponsible by both Carol Lee and Pan Am Dragon Boat. It was not a flash flood, you knew the conditions beforehand and failed to address them. Shame on you.

In the end, my team paid $2100 to race twice. We went to the Mercer County festival down the road for this first time this year as a warm-up. Paid $745 for 4 races, parked 100m from our spot, had loads of fun at a well run event. 2/3 of the teams race at Philly as well, plus some New York teams. Pan Am/Philly versus Mercer/GWN. Easy answer. My team will be going to Mercer for our big race in the fall.

Carol Lee, two years of poor management and you lost us as a team. We will not miss your crazy emails.

 
 
philly paddler

More Drama

October 4 2011, 11:00 PM 

The police were hypersensitive to the boats capsizing because of a drowning on Thursday before the event. There was news coverage about a car going into the river at the bridge and the driver getting caught in the fast current and being swept away. That was the reason for the helicopter hovering over the water on race day - it was the police searching for the body. The news made mention about the race and the problems with water levels and the current and the debate about cancelling the event. That"s why the police were freaked - they didn't want any more drownings.


http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=8374070


Marine units resume search for driver in Schuylkill River

By JOHN RAWLINS

EAST FALLS - September 30, 2011 (WPVI) -- A full day of searching Friday did not turn up the body of a woman who is presumed to have drowned after driving directly into the Schuylkill River in Philadelphia.

Philadelphia is hosting a Dragon Boat Festival on Saturday with thousands of people expected on the river. With that in mind police focused on trying to find the missing body, concerned it could surface on its own during the festivities. So far, they have not had any luck. Witnesses say the woman's car sped across Kelly Drive, smashed through a retaining wall, and plunged into the river Thursday afternoon. The driver managed to get out of the car, screamed for help, but was swept away by the current. A tow truck pulled the 2008 silver Mercury Grand Marquis out last night. The woman behind the wheel was not the owner of the car. Police have talked to the owner, however, and he allegedly told them he had lent the Mercury to a friend. Police say until they are certain that it was the friend at the wheel, they will not release the name. Alvin Bates witnessed the incident. He tells us, "She was like, coming up - bobbing up and down. But there was nothing nobody could do man. And it's a sad thing for somebody to die like that." The river search is aided by a small, boat-mounted sonar unit. The officers watch the sonar's display, looking for a shadow that might be a body under the water. Given the current, the search extended as much as a mile downstream. Philadelphia police Lt. Andrew Napoli explains, "Unless the body gets snagged on some type of debris underwater, she's down river somewhere. We just don't know where." There has been nothing on the sonar screens that has been cause for police to call for divers at this point. So, the sonar search continues. Still unanswered is why the car didn't stop. Police will conduct a mechanical inspection of the car, looking for a stuck accelerator or faulty brakes.

The Police Marine Unit is continuing to search for a woman who was driving a silver or gray sedan southbound on Ferry Road around 4:15 p.m. when she crossed Kelly Drive, slammed through a wall and plunged into the Schuylkill River. Police said that, according to witnesses, the vehicle became submerged in the water. About five seconds later, a black female in her mid-40s was able to get out of the car and was observed screaming for help. The woman made it to the third bridge pillar, but was swept away by the current, strengthened by a record amount of rain in the past few months. Approximately 10 seconds after her vehicle nosedived into the river, the woman disappeared. Police said that the current is so strong, the Marine Unit is having trouble retrieving the woman's vehicle. Right now, they are focused on finding the victim. Police are unsure of the woman's identity or whether anyone else was in the vehicle. The Aviation Unit was also on the scene to assist in the search.

Police used a crane Thursday night to lift a car out of the Schuylkill River, but the woman who was driving the car when it plunged into the water remained missing. About 4:15 p.m. in the city's East Falls section, witnesses saw the woman's 2008 Mercury Grand Marquis drive south on Ferry Road to Kelly Drive, where it struck a wall and crashed into the river, police said. "A few seconds later the vehicle became submerged in the river and approximately five seconds later a black female in her mid-forties was observed screaming for help," said Officer Christine O'Brien. "The female made it down to the third bridge pillar, approximately 10 seconds later from where the vehicle entered the river, the female disappeared."

A search resumed this morning for a woman who disappeared in the quick flowing Schuylkill and is feared drowned after her car ran off the road and crashed into the river in the city's East Falls section. Police used a crane Thursday night to lift the car out of the river. This morning they were using sonar in an effort to find the missing woman. Witnesses told police that about 4:15 p.m. they a 2008 Mercury Grand Marquis headed south on Ferry Road cross Kelly Drive at a high rate of speed, slam into a wall along the river bank and then fall hood first into the water. A few seconds later, the witnesses saw a woman in the river, screaming for help as the current carried her downriver before she disappeared, police said. Police closed Kelly Drive throughout the night for the accident investigation before allowing it to reopen for this morning's rush hour. Accident experts will inspect the car to see if a mechanical problem caused the car to go out of control.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 5 2011, 6:18 AM 

Nice response from Mike Kerkmann. Water conditions only represented about 40% of the problems because the rest was caused by poor organization. The water conditions did cause the staff to arrive at 7:30AM for the 7:00 Captains meeting! TEAM PAN AM of Mike Kerkmann, Christine Canevari and Joe Sinkovic are no match for the GWN team Mike formed in Toronto. All 2011 Pan Am events have been train wrecks and left a trail of disappointed dragon boaters and furious volunteers! Whether they used Buks or Champions, all their events were stained with poor preparation, poor staffing and poor funding. STAY AWAY from all Pan Am events! Lively Dragon events are far better!!!

 
 

Re: Philly fest

October 5 2011, 11:27 AM 

Any FINALS race video 'floating' around from Philly Fest?

 
 

Final Photo Finish View

October 5 2011, 11:49 AM 

I don't have full race video (there wasn't anyone left on shore from our team that I could ask to work a camera), but I do have this clip courtesy of Klaus Hagel - PanAm Dragon Boats Finish Line Cameraman.

It shows Ghost Ship I (Lane 3) making their move at the line to beat my Wyverns (Lane 4) by 0.01, with DC Dragons in Lane 5 coming across 0.30 seconds later for Bronze.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odqfI9Sa3is

The course was short (400 meters, maybe), hence the 1:28's. You'll note the position of the finish line buoys, well left of the frame. The current had been stretching them that way all day long, so it make for a tough sprint call for everyone racing.

I was pleasantly surprised that the camera had enough light to see the finish at all. It seemed much darker on the water when we finally started the "A" Final.

Bob Mina
Wyverns

p.s. - DrummerCam was active and on for this race. Still need to finish sorting through the videos from this year, but there will be a DrummerCam 2011 video. Promise!

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 5 2011, 12:17 PM 

The answer is simple.
PanAm took over the event with a minimal number of staff to accommodate this event.
GWN in the past has taken almost 30 staff to run the event.
You cannot run this event with Novice steerspeople.

Looking at the water in the video's does not represent even some of the worse
conditions faced in previous years.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 5 2011, 1:03 PM 

The river current or weather were not the real problems for this train wreck.
Recklessness and lack of experience and organization was.

You can somewhat make up for lack of experience by being overly cautious and over-prepare.
This wasn't the case, at all.

It is given that Champions are tippy, and would be nice if not used with novice crews.
Even so, and even if they were used, the combination of Champion boats and their toothpick oars make them pure dangerous for inexperienced steerers and a pain in the neck for experienced steerers.

The least they could do was to substitute for all grey owl or similar oars so that there is better response time and little lag on steering. This was not even an afterthought.

Carol Lee forgot that God wouldn't paddle in a crappy Champion with a cheap steering oar in the back.
Please face reality for once and listen to people who were actually there.

Show some responsibility and take the right actions.

Else, teams will not return.



 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 5 2011, 2:33 PM 

The staff showing up late was a good foreshadow for the rest of the day. Not sure why staff would miss their oown meeting.

Pan Am has a long way to go to correct their iimage after worlds and now this.

I agree with the poster who mentioned Mercer. I'll end my seasson there next year.

 
 

Re: Philly fest

October 5 2011, 3:55 PM 

I heard that at the Captains' meeting while the priest was delivering the pre-event prayer from the finish-line platform, a volunteer in an orange shirt was lifting a small box of beer and other libations on to the platform?...at 7:30 am!

Things that make you go... 'hmmm'

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 5 2011, 3:59 PM 

Wait, there was a pre-event prayer???

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 5 2011, 4:02 PM 

What does Pan Am have to do with the Worlds? Weren't they just responsible for the race course, which happened to be awesome? Isn't the IDBF in charge of worlds??

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 5 2011, 5:04 PM 

Pan Am was NOT in charge of putting in the race course at the worlds. the course was put in by the rowing club person who was not affiliated with Pan Am

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 5 2011, 5:11 PM 

I heard Wayne Gretsky was there teaching Michael Jordan how to paddle.
Is that true?

 
 
Anonymous

Prayers and Anthems

October 5 2011, 5:34 PM 

Yes, there was a pre-race prayer, and then the singing of both O Canada and The Star Spangled Banner.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 5 2011, 9:41 PM 

yes,
Gretsky, and Jordan, were there.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 5 2011, 10:47 PM 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFPdYHhcLsk&feature=related

video of the dragon boat crash that caused the two dragon boat flipping
start at 1:50

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 5 2011, 11:15 PM 

I hope the steer out in lane 6 ? that caused the crash was not part
of the PanAM Group ? That was entirely the fault of the steer.
How about stopping the boat ? Telling the paddlers to halt ?

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 5 2011, 11:29 PM 

He fell into row 10 and forgot that boat safety is top priority while he was trying to get back on his feet.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 6 2011, 12:16 AM 

He fell AFTER he lost control of the boat.

While I'm assuming the current was stronger than normal ?
The conditions didn't look bad enough to cause too many issues.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 6 2011, 1:54 AM 

Tampa dragon boat institute won the bid to host the IDBF Worlds. Somehow the Pan Am group took over managing the logistics and tools to be used in running the races. This explains the poorly equiped officials, long delays in posting results, absence of tv monitors for viewing races. Pan Am ran the worlds cheaply, just as they ran the Philly races - didn't want to spend the money for 24 dragon boats, or pay the money to use experienced steerers. Also, why play the Canadian anthem in the US?

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 6 2011, 2:25 AM 

I hear from reliable sources that Mayfair paddlers, equipped with scuba gear *were positioned just below the surface, interfering with the race!

 
 
Anonymous

RE: October 6 2011, 1:54 AM

October 6 2011, 7:02 AM 

Shut up, you don't know what you are talking about.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 6 2011, 9:56 AM 

There was a Canadian crew at the event. Ghost Ship 1 and Ghost Ship 2 were both from Canada.

 
 

Canadian Teams

October 6 2011, 10:06 AM 

There were a few GM and U23 Canadian paddlers (wearing kit last seen in Tampa) making up the Ghost Ship teams. Nice group of people! They gave us a great, close race in the "A" Final.

It's a pity the day went the way that it did. After the road-trip down and the overnight stays, any team that travels that far should be able to race for more than 3 minutes total (4:28 if you count the combined Men's Race).


 
 
Pat Bradley

Re: Philly fest

October 6 2011, 2:36 PM 

Our Ghost Ship crews were a combined program specifically put together for the Philly event. The athletes were primarily from the Quinte area(Belleville, ON) including HEAT GDs, some GD National team athletes, several from Toronto/Pickering based crews, and one guy from DC.

Agreed; It was a tough day for everyone.
Only racing twice was dissappointing given the travel involved, but the final race was exciting..couldn't have been any closer.

Have a good winter, Bob.

Pat


 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 8 2011, 7:05 AM 

Mercer! Try it people. Pan am needs time to figure things out. Mike needs to run races like he used to. It`s actually sad to see someone who used to be good at it start to fail.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 8 2011, 12:00 PM 

Was he good at it or did the staff make him look good?

Interesting that none of the old staff worked Pan Am events this year.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 9 2011, 1:21 PM 

Kerkman never ran the show at events.
There is a reason why GWN ran events like Philly or other major events in past years and
made them a success. Dedicated staff that did anything, under any conditions to make
them run smoothly. Also helped that Farintosh managed a large number of the big events.

 
 
Anonymous

Final Results

October 10 2011, 5:06 PM 

Did anyone else notice when the final race results went up online some of the teams listed as having raced in the A Division final weren't even in that division?

CL should seriously consider postponing her conversations with God until she has the rest of her act together.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 10 2011, 6:16 PM 

Dickhead

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 10 2011, 6:19 PM 

^ Re: October 10 2011, 5:06 PM ^

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 11 2011, 12:49 AM 


 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 11 2011, 1:17 AM 

No steerer in sight and no one thought to stop paddling, ouch!

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 11 2011, 7:18 AM 

i NEVER thought Kerkmen would be this bad. This is Lively territory...

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 11 2011, 8:41 AM 

Someone got footage of the police boat going over!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF24y5iu-5g&feature=related

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 11 2011, 8:42 AM 

Wow, that was just criminally bad steering. You see the steersperson pop up and then back down just before the collision. What were they doing, looking for their car keys? A contact lense?

So many times I have seen this, a boat swerving all over the course while still paddling full tilt. They need to STOP!

The rule should be that if you leave your lane, stop paddling. Enough of this crap about trying to get the boat back under control. Yo7're endangering people's lives. Leave your lane = hold water.

The rules should be changed to make the DQ automatic so idiots like this aren't tempted to try to get back on track.


 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 11 2011, 9:46 AM 

LOL, I have yet to experience a boat out of control stopping.
Over 10 years where the boat I've steered been rammed/side swiped regardless of chase boat or not.
You think it would be common sense for safety if you're not in control that a boat would stop :P

 
 

Wow

October 11 2011, 10:02 AM 

That's just amazing. Behind the boat using the Drunken Master Steering Method(TM), Race Official Sue Weinand can be seen in the chase boat. When I talked to her afterwards she said she started screaming for Lane 6 to "Hold Water!", and then just started yelling "Stop! Stop! Stop PADDLING!"

Either they didn't understand (they were a first-time team, Philly CrossFit), or couldn't hear. That's just astonishing.

The poor River Runners in Lane 4 didn't have a chance. That's a hell of a hit.

 
 

Drummer in Lane 6

October 11 2011, 11:08 AM 

The more I watch this, the more I'm amazed that the drummer for Lane 6 wasn't seriously injured. Watch how quickly she gets battered off of the seat by the dragon head on impact when the boats come together.

Falling backwards onto the hull you've just hit - Ayiyiyiyi. Lucky, lucky, lucky there wasn't a head injury on that one. I can't imagine a worse scenario, short of falling between the boats.

Astounding.

 
 

Re: Philly fest

October 11 2011, 8:48 PM 

Couldn't wait for the day to end. Happy that nobody was injured and that drummer in 6 was very fortunate not to be injured.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 12 2011, 12:41 PM 

Agreed. The day couldn't end fast enough! Incompetent steerers made the day run longer. Lousy starter made all participants angry for the unfair starts. Too many teams. Too dragon boats for the number of teams. Now, Panam is promoting events in Florida! Fall in the water there and get chomped by gators!

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 13 2011, 12:20 AM 

Setting up at the line was very difficult with a strong current AND a steady crosswind The starter had to start the way she did or we would have had a marathon festival! Into the next day! How cool would that be! Midnight racing.

 
 
Eddy

Re: Philly fest

October 13 2011, 8:33 AM 

As much as I've loved going to Philly as participant and working the event, I can say that this venue can be brutal. Not much room for error with the logistics and running the event.
I remember the 2nd year where we had the wrath of God weather for the A final and the third year where it was postponed for the following weekend due to water conditions.
Stuff happens at smaller festivals but at a large one like this all you can do is hope happy.gif
Be a shame for the Philly to have to rebuild itself like London and Hamilton.

 
 
Anonymous

Canadian Teams

October 13 2011, 9:07 AM 

There was another team present at Philly this year. "Forged Fury" - made from paddlers usually paddling for Bearing Arms from Stratford. Fortunate enough to have a sponsor from the Philly area - Specialty Ring Products. Got to race with the other Canadian crews in the A finals where they pulled off 4th in the finals. Must say, more than likely will NOT be back to this event. Although they are a rec team the team certainly didn't enjoy the the lack of organization of the event, the hours between only 2 races, the 1/2 hr it took to run the A final race, lack of safety with drunk paddlers.... the list could go on. Crazy end to a great season of paddling.

 
 
An Old Veteran

Re: Philly fest

October 13 2011, 9:43 PM 

I've been Dragon boating for 24 years and Yes, have seen collisions before. Typically it's caused by the steersman trying to get it back in control after losing it and allowing the boat to continue its momentum. As a rule of thumb in our events the teams steersman is in charge of the boat. But before a team even gets in a boat on race day, they are trained at practices to take commands from the steersman with drummer repeating what he/she says. But we take it a step further and TRAIN the HOLD. We take it very seriously that the commands from the steersman be obeyed, as their safety is in his/her hands.

The steersman IS IN CHARGE and full blame should be placed on them and/or whomever judged them as competent and placed them in the boat. If he/she loses control by falling in the boat (or out), the HOLD is given immediately by them AND the drummer.

My understanding this wasn't the first heat of the day. Experienced steersman should be allowed to give valid advice and concerns to the organizers and if there were lanes that could cause potential problems, adjustments should have been made to the course.

The issue with the police boat: plain stupidity.

P.S. I have accidentally allowed a boat to get away from me while steering. Once! 24 years ago.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 14 2011, 2:21 PM 

Totally agree it is %100 the steersperson in charge. So who was steering that boat??

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 14 2011, 4:22 PM 

Re: October 13 2011, 9:43 PM
Blowhard

 
 
H2O Rescue

Wow -

October 20 2011, 9:28 AM 

Shocked and surprised watching the video of the Rescues after the crashes. I organized (for free) the rescue teams in the past, however, was not asked the last two years. I was a little disappointed in the rescue efforts I saw in the videos. The Dragon Boat events need a very good team to stand-by in the event of a serious injury (ie. head injury during a capsize). All rescue boats for Dragon Boat safety should be equipped with propeller guards! (Not evident by the video of the police craft with a prop in the air). When approaching 20 to 40 people in the water at the same time, you can't spot who is where when approaching. Even the most experienced boat operator could easily miss someone resulting in "Prop-chop" injury. Inflatable Rescue Boats (IRB's) are the tool of choice for multiple victim recovery. You can overload the craft with little chance of a flip and it will still stay stable. We deployed 4 to 5 rescue craft (no open props) and 1 rapid response PWC during the race. We had no less then 5 rescue swimmers, 1 Paramedic, and 3 EMT's on the rescue boats. Most of the units came from the "burbs" and provided the event service for free. We got a donation of equipment once. Evidently the event planners had something better in mind. Good luck to all in the future, be safe. H2O Rescue-Instructor

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

October 29 2011, 9:24 PM 

An Old Veteran

Re: Philly fest
October 13 2011, 9:43 PM

"P.S. I have accidentally allowed a boat to get away from me while steering. Once! 24 years ago."

So you steered at Toronto Center Island at the time?

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

January 3 2012, 9:30 PM 

Carol Lee and the Philadelphia festival have switched back to GWN. That didn't take long.

 
 
anon

DANGEROUS!

January 4 2012, 8:15 AM 

Doesn't mater who runs the Philly event, that river has become exremely dangerous in the fall...especially for the novice and rec crews/participants.

My crew won't be returning.

It's just a matter of time before there is a serious injury or worse.

Good luck to GWN..but I'm staying clear of it.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

January 4 2012, 9:21 AM 

Good for GWN. They ran it well in the past and I expect them to do the same in 2012.

Good luck to everyone in Philly!


 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

January 4 2012, 3:22 PM 

Two stikes on Pan Am. Botched worlds and horrible philly...

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

January 5 2012, 9:20 AM 

"worlds" .... funny!!

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

January 5 2012, 10:13 AM 

"Two stikes on Pan Am. Botched worlds and horrible philly..."

Karma stinks, doesn't it Joe?

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

January 5 2012, 11:13 AM 

they took on too much too fast and could not deliver

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

January 5 2012, 8:00 PM 

BS - that river in the fall is a serious accident waiting to happen.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

January 5 2012, 8:04 PM 

Worlds, were yes, the Worlds. You obviously are just a troll, who sucks, and could not make the cut to be on the team. You could not even place in at The Island, dork.
And you could not win at Disney! happy.gif

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

January 5 2012, 8:41 PM 

Yeah! Mickey Mouse!

 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

January 6 2012, 9:19 AM 

>Re: Philly fest January 5 2012, 8:00 PM

>BS - that river in the fall is a serious accident waiting to happen.

I think it's fair to say any course in such open water can be treacherous.
Just have the common sense to place safety first. They've postponed before.

You need to do other festivals if you think Philly is the only place with bad conditions.


 
 
Anonymous

Re: Philly fest

January 6 2012, 11:17 AM 

How did the river suddenly become dangerous?

isn't it at the same spot it's always been?

 
 
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