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No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 17 2013 at 10:12 PM
Anonymous 

 
...according to the latest IDBF bulletin.

 
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AuthorReply
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 18 2013, 9:22 AM 

Where is this bulletin?

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 19 2013, 7:39 AM 

Don't look for the last bulletin (bulletin #2).

Go to www.idbfregistration.org, there is an icon on the website for urrent entries. This gives you an idea of who is actually registered:

So far, for Premier Standard Boat:

Open
-----
Canada
China
Taiwan
Czech Republic
Germany
Hungary
Macau
Ukraine
United States

Women:
------
Australia
Canada
China
Czech Republic
Germany
Hungary
Macau
USA

Mixed:
------
Australia
Canada
China
Czech Republic
Germany
Great Britain
Hong Kong
Hungary
Japan
Macau
Poland
Puerto Rico
Trinidad and Tobago
United States

Teams racing small boat:
Australia Open
Taiwan Open and Women
Hong Kong Open and Women
Iran Open
Russia Open and Mixed
Sweden Open and Mixed
Thailand Women

Thus far, this isn't shaping up to be a more widely participated Worlds than Tampa. Are there political factors involved?

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 19 2013, 9:32 AM 

Definitely more teams that Tampa overall, no? As for Premier, the Small Boat category is taking away some participation in the Large Boat category. But almost all of the Large Boat Premier entries are the top countries in the world, so the Small Boat category (for the most part) weeds out the weaker teams from the Premier category anyway.

I still don't like the Small Boat category.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 19 2013, 9:38 AM 

Not sure if this is up-to-date, but Austrailia is not putting an Open team together? Or the Philipines... thats not good. Could be a funding issue,

this Tahiti factor would've been exciting to see. Lots of hype but noone can really draw any solid conclusions, because theres no head to head comparisons!




 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 19 2013, 9:59 AM 

You can derive head to head from Asian and Euro Championships results.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 19 2013, 11:16 AM 

For an established country like Australia to enter Premier Small boat they would have needed to demonstrate financial exigency just as the Filos needed to do in Tampa when they lost their funding source. Anyone who has looked into it knows that the costs of going to Hungary is very high. I would assume travel from Australia would be hugely expensive same for Tahiti.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 19 2013, 5:42 PM 

There's something really weird going on with the Australian entries. They entered Large Boats in almost every division EXCEPT Premier Open. Large boats in Premier Women, Premier Mixed, ALL Senior A's, ALL Senior C's and most of Senior B. Small boat in Premier Open.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 19 2013, 5:49 PM 

They decided only 12 premier male paddlers are good enough to represent their country, sounds logical

 
 
anonymous

Aus prem opens

June 19 2013, 9:04 PM 

I am an Australian dragon boater but I am not paddling at the world champs. I haven't spoken to every male paddler under 40 in Australia so this is only an educated opinion of why there is only a small boat crew in prem opens.

The main reason is just not enough guys wanting to take a few weeks of work for competing and training camps as well as spending the money on the campaign. It just happened to be in premier open rather than any other category.

Another reason is this and it also explains their poor performance in Tampa. The best male paddlers in Australia didn't do world champs in Tampa and only some did Prague. Generally speaking the best won't paddle for the current Australian coach who has been the coach since post Prague. I don't want to put forward negative opinions of the coach because not everyone feels that way about him. Many think he's wonderful. I don't.

The best male paddlers are mostly within a few clubs and they are not putting themselves forward for selection, again probably because of the coach. The guys who are doing it are mostly from other clubs and are mostly not up to the standard of the guys from the top clubs. Even though dragon boating has grown in Australia the number of males under 40 doing it is pretty small when you look at the total demographic. It's become somewhat of a 40s+ sport in Australia. That is another factor. The pool of guys under 40 is limited and even more limited is the pool of talented guys under 40.

The standard of the 10s crew would see them get smashed in 20s if they had another 10 guys of the same standard. Probably moreso than the Tampa crew even.


 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 19 2013, 10:10 PM 

Thanks for the insight, Aussie friend. Sounds like the main reason for the poor showing in Hungary by the Australian Premier Open is the dislike of the coach. Are there different coaches for the Premier Women and Premier Mixed?

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 19 2013, 10:34 PM 

The best current aussie male paddlers exist within a few clubs in Sydney (City Dragons, Pacific Dragons and the sloths). 99% of these guys aren't in the Australian team and weren't in it in Prague because of a fairly poor perception of the current Australian coach.

These guys prefer (particularly City Dragons and Pacific Dragons) to do the CCWC competition every second year, and on every other year they save their money and annual leave at work for the following CCWC.

The lack of a large boat entry for Premier Opens should speak volumes about the current state of coaching at the national level, but as usual politics and allegiances will more than likely get in the way of any real change.

When you consider that the current coach is paid a hefty annual salary to coach, you have to wonder why he's being paid if he can't field a large boat Premier Opens crew.


 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 19 2013, 11:15 PM 

To the Aussie: Our paddlers have the same problems with our coaches, we understand

 
 
anonymous

coaches

June 20 2013, 2:31 AM 

The Aus team has a head coach. Then a division coach. So 1 premier coach, 1 senior A coach etc.

The division coaches are ruled by the head coach. At training camps the head coach does most of the coaching. The division coach coaches under the guidance of the head coach. The session plans and technique all come from the head coach.

We can all have our ideas on what technique is better etc. As long as your stroke has the right fundamentals different technqiues can all be effective. But the Aus coach lacks in other areas. Basic lack of understanding on physiology. In other words what outcomes on the body certain types of training will deliver. Also transparency.

I am reasonably confident that there are far more qualified coaches in Canada than Austrlaia. In Australia you could count them on one hand and still maybe not use all five fingers. By this I mean coaches who coach based on science, not just gut feeling with nothing to back it up. And pick crews based on ability to move a boat fast and for sustained periods of time. In other words get the boat from A to B as fast as possible.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 20 2013, 5:49 AM 

Another joke of a world championship! I am wasting my money going to hungary D:

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 20 2013, 7:46 AM 

Bulletin number 2 has the provisional numbers for each category and distance. There are more than are listed in the countries attending. http://www.hungary2013.dragonboat.hu/static/downloads/Final_Info_Bul_2_11th_WDBRC_Szeged_2013_2.pdf

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 20 2013, 8:04 AM 

"By this I mean coaches who coach based on science, not just gut feeling with nothing to back it up."

This sounds ideal but not all crews in Canada believe in this. One coach I know used the Excalibur for selection and it came out with results that weren't expected by the crew. When the team didn't do well they fired the coach in part for using it.

Really depends on the members of the team and what they deem "right"

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 20 2013, 8:17 AM 

Bulletin #2 is outdated. Bulletin #3 is correct. #3 has not been posted on the IDBF website yet, but it is being circulated through the coaches.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 20 2013, 8:30 AM 

"Another joke of a world championship! I am wasting my money going to hungary D:"

I disagree. The teams who are entering the Large Boat divisions are likely the best teams around. The Small Boat division allows teams that do not have the talent for a competitive Large Boat entry a chance to compete with "Small Boats." So Small Boats are really just the "B Division" at the Worlds.

Money, you might argue, could be a factor preventing some countries from sending crews that could medal in the Large Boat Premier divisions. But I doubt money is a cause because teams like China and Macau found enough money to enter teams in all Large Boat Premier divisions. Aside from Philippines (turn apart by political, not financial, problems), what other competitive country is really missing from the Premier division?

It would have been nice to see what Tahiti could do, but we don't know how good of a dragon boat team they had been organizing. We don't know if they had their best outrigger paddlers in those few video of the Tahitian dragon boat team we saw.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 20 2013, 8:50 AM 

Premier participation, not so bad.

Senior C women? AUTOMEDAL!!

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 20 2013, 8:57 AM 

I propose we rename the World Championships, the "Occidental vs. Asian G8 Countries World Dragonboat Challenge"

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 20 2013, 9:36 AM 

""Occidental vs. Asian G8 Countries World Dragonboat Challenge"

Couldn't you say that about most water sports in the Olympics?

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 20 2013, 9:45 AM 

9:36, you have a point. Though where I'm coming from is that there are major powerhouses in the sport that aren't in attendance. I'm happy to see Taiwan make an appearance in small boat, but from Asian Games and Championships results we are mising Korea (strong in the 1000m), Thailand, Indonesia, Myanmar, and Tahiti. In other watersports, if those countries were not in attendance, we wouldn't really be missing much, but I really do believe we are missing out when these countries don't attend a DB WC


 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 20 2013, 10:04 AM 

"we are mising Korea (strong in the 1000m), Thailand, Indonesia, Myanmar, and Tahiti."

I'm curious about how they fared versus China in all distances. Do you know where the results are posted?

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 20 2013, 10:26 AM 

The results for the last Asian Championships not available across all the expected race distances. The ones I found in the last issue of Dragonboat International contain the same results as on the website:

http://readyandreach.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/dbi-28-december_201225.pdf

Asian Championships results:

Standard Boat

Mixed 200
1 Chinese Taipei 0.47.26
2 China 0.47.46
3 Tahiti Nui 0.47.54
4 Australia 0.48.71
5 Japan 0.48.88

Mixed 500
1 Chinese Taipei 1.56.50
2 Tahiti Nui 1.56.97
3 Australia 1.58.43
4 Macau 2.03.54

Womens 200
1 China 0.49.84
2 Tahiti Nui 0.50.78
3 Australia 0.51.12
4 Macau 0.52.58
5 Singapore 0.52.583

Womens 500
1 China 2.12.12
2 Tahiti Nui 2.13.00
3 Australia 2.15.29
4 Singapore 2.21.43
5 Hong Kong 2.31.98

Open 5k
1 Tahiti Nui 22.26.61
2 China 23.09.76
3 Chinese Taipei 23.57.35
4 Australia 23.59.62
5 Singapore 24.15.68
6 Macau 25.47.94

Womens 5k
1 China 24.57.56
2 Tahiti Nui 25.16.26
3 Australia 26.34.08
4 Singapore 27.07.18
5 Macau 28.52.97
6 Japan 29.08.62
7 Hong Kong 29.59.00

Small Boat

Open 200
1 China 0.52.69
2 Tahiti Nui 0.52.85
3 China Taipei 0.55.24
4 Australia 0.55.74
5 Singapore 0.56.78

Mixed 200
1 Tahiti Nui 0.53.40
2 China Taipei 0.53.95
3 Singapore 0.55.68
4 Australia 0.56.62
5 Japan: 0.57.85

Womens 200
1 China 0.57.38
2 Tahiti Nui 0.58.40
3 Philippines 0.58.79
4 China Taipei 0.59.18
5 Australia 0.59.87

Open 500
1 Tahiti Nui 2.12.23
2 China 2.14.45
3 Australia 2.15.36
4 Singapore 2.20.29

Mixed 500
1 Tahiti Nui 2.17.55
2 China Taipei 2.20.65
3 Australia 2.26.44
4 Philippines 2.28.55
5 Japan: 2.30.39

Womens 500
1 China 2.25.73
2 Tahiti Nui 2.27.51
3 Philippines 2.32.10
4 Singapore 2.35.13
5 Australia 2.35.34
6 Japan 2.48.15

The Australians know what's going down, but they're staying tight lipped happy.gif

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 20 2013, 10:31 AM 

2:12...tahiti sucks no?

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 20 2013, 10:54 AM 

2:12 is for a small boat 500 m race

 
 
anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 20 2013, 7:53 PM 

Asian champs didn't have Indonesia or Myanmar. Asian Games in 2010 shows you how much some crews were better than China by. China missed medals in at least one distance.

When I say science I am not talking about the paddle that gives data. I am talking about training plans based on how the body reacts. Session plans based on how Olympic canoeists train. Not just thrashing paddlers at a session cause it's good to work hard. Also picking paddlers based on paddling ability (single craft trial).

China and Macau can make world champs even though money may be tight but just cause other countries have more money doesn't mean they can go. Aussie paddlers who chose not to go may just not want to spend their money going to a world champs. It's personal discretion. Put the right coach in and more may choose to spend that money. I can say for sure that the number of male dragon boat paddlers under 40 in Australia is not great. But there are enough to make a competitive 20s crew at world level.

In a sport where they boast about numbers and growth it's funny when the premier category gets only about ten countries competing in 20s. Even if you included 10s you only get about another ten to fifteen countries. I'm also not sure why they have so many divisions. Two or three junior categories, premier, senior A, senior B, senior C. I think it's silly to break it up so much and have less than 5 countries in most divisions. It's hardly a world champs when that happens. Nearly every one gets a medal. It really is all about premier.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 20 2013, 9:19 PM 

I agree with much of what you wrote. Senior C??? Is that really necessary?

As for having more 20-man boats in Premier, I believe Prague had something like 19 entries in Premier Open. But so many of those teams were not able to compete with the top crews and had zero chance of winning any medals -- so maybe now they just don't bother showing up knowing that they'd get crushed again. That's a lot of money to spend when you have no chance of any reward. So for the most part, the Premier and Senior A divisions are now self-selective. Yes, money might be a factor for some countries with top talent, but it is a minor factor in preventing top crews from competing.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 20 2013, 10:20 PM 

Senior C is a natural progression of the sport, look at rowing, they have 9 Masters categories starting with A at age 27 to J at 80 and up. They handicap within each category by year. Juniors and Masters in rowing have separate Worlds but they also have multiple categories from singles to eights, sweep and sculling, lightweights, etc. At this point multiple worlds do not make sense yet for the IDBF.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 20 2013, 10:28 PM 

but does rowing have races with 3 crews at the worlds?

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 21 2013, 12:11 AM 

"Senior C is a natural progression of the sport, look at rowing,..."

Rowing has at most EIGHT people in a boat (most events are less than eight) while a serious dragon boat needs 20 paddlers. So the the comparison to rowing doesn't hold.

 
 
Anonymous

Worlds

June 21 2013, 12:48 AM 

Your argument about only going to worlds if you have a chance of winning doesn't stand either. If that was the case most sports at world level would have a few teams/individuals competing. Sure we all go to try and win but we know not all of us can. But participating is important. Being the best in your country and giving it a shot is important. Making a major final might be the goal. It's a sad day for sport when only those who can win turn up. I would rather compete against 30 countries than just 5 who have a chance of winning. We want to have heats, repercharges, semis and finals. We don't want a straight out final. We want to see lower crews going for it and benchmarking themselves so they can come back and do better next time. I am ultra competitive and want to win at most costs but sometimes making a major final is awesome. I don't pull out cause I can't win. Imagine the olympic 100m having 5 guys racing. Instead they have a few rounds then semis thena final. There are guys who run 11 secs and get smoked but they turn up to see what they can do, all be it getting knocked out early.

2009 was great with crews of varying abilities in premier opens. 2011 sucked with 9 crews in premier opens. IDBF should stop bragging about a country having DB when they never show up for worlds.

I would move senior A to 50+. A lot of paddlers in their 40s can mix it with prems. Then have 1 seniors category. Also 1 junior category.

As it is now we have so many divisions and it just dilutes the sport. DB has 20 in a boat and we just don't have the numebrs to warrant so many divisions. Three countries competing by going best of 3 races just sucks. But the IDBF have taken a clear direction and they won't back track.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 21 2013, 7:51 AM 

If you want more participation, why would you make Senior A a 50+ event? Senior A presently has very good participation at 40+, so it makes no sense to mess with that division.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 21 2013, 7:59 AM 

Comparing participation in the Olympics to participation in the dragon boat world championships makes little sense. Even the guy who comes in last place at the Olympics can still say he is an Olympian. The team that comes in 19th in the Premier Open at dragon boat worlds, well, came in 19th at the dragon boat worlds.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 22 2013, 11:00 PM 

So what does the Aussie coach get paid? What is a hefty salary?

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 23 2013, 12:54 AM 

From what I understand, he gets three koalas, five dingos, and four wallabies per week.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 23 2013, 1:54 AM 

~40,000 a year.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 25 2013, 1:51 PM 

Participation for this event is LOW

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 25 2013, 2:21 PM 

Define LOW. Do you mean low as in the pathetic turnout for the 2012 ICF Worlds (along with the sub-par level of competitors)?

Or do you mean LOW as in comparison to the 2011 IDBF Worlds in Tampa?

Either way you are talking out your arse.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 25 2013, 11:11 PM 

Definitely more than Tampa.

 
 
anonymous

worlds

June 26 2013, 2:34 AM 

I'll stick to premier on this. There are slightly more 20s crews than in Tampa but only slightly more. There are a lot more in 10s. But does this count for anything? For sure the numbers have dropped in 20s since Prague.

 
 
Anonymous

The Golden Age has passed

June 26 2013, 7:47 AM 

The golden age of dragonboating is clearly in the rearview mirror. The incredible growth we saw when TIDBRF legitimately had over 200 teams and we had races pretty much every weekend is over. You see it also at World's with fewer countries participating. My theory is with the bar constantly being raised, the effort required to be good is a commitment many do not wish to make. So now we have an uneven barbell of teams. The larger recreational group on one end with a smaller elite group on the other sandwiching a very small list of teams either in transition (up or down) or who happen to have a naturally better group of people on the crew (who will end up leaving for the elites later). The crucial midpoint of teams where incremental effort used to translate into incremental improvement in performance has disappeared. I'm sure you can see that in the times posted with a bigger gap happening as you progress from A division to F division

 
 
Arse?

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 26 2013, 9:45 AM 

Low = open division has 9 teams. If we have a 6 lane race course, only three teams are left out of the big 'world' championship final.

Like it or not, 10s seems to be the future.

Small boat
Australia Open
Taiwan Open and Women
Hong Kong Open and Women
Iran Open
Russia Open and Mixed
Sweden Open and Mixed
Thailand Women

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 26 2013, 11:36 AM 

can someone post the link to the list of teams entered?

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 26 2013, 12:14 PM 


 
 
Yes, Arse

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 26 2013, 12:17 PM 

There are as many as 14 Premier Mixed Teams entered in Hungary. That is a very strong showing, arse.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 26 2013, 1:45 PM 

This year i decided to skip the world's and buy myself a brand new used car.
Life is good.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 26 2013, 3:59 PM 

what happened to Great Britain!?!

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 26 2013, 4:19 PM 

What's up with some teams only entering certain distances? If you're going already why not race all the distances?

eg Taipei 200m/500m only, Macau no 1000m, Thailand 1000m only

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 26 2013, 4:51 PM 

Thailand don't strike me as 1000m specialists

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 26 2013, 7:49 PM 

"what happened to Great Britain!?!"

It has always amazed me how poorly GB supports world level competitions in Dragonboat. Shameful.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 26 2013, 9:15 PM 

"Low = open division has 9 teams. If we have a 6 lane race course, only three teams are left out of the big 'world' championship final."

Not necessarily, depends on the racing plan, sometimes there will only be 3-5 in a final depending on the number of entries, there is a race plan for each number of entries they follow. With 9 heat winners will probably go directly to final and then rep for the rest or something like that.


 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 29 2013, 6:39 AM 

this link can't be updated? USA only racing U24??? I assume teams have just not entered their stuff.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

June 29 2013, 9:07 AM 

Word is Team USA withdrew all but the U24 because they were afraid of being criticized on the forum if they did not perform well. Actually you were only looking at the 10 seat entries, scroll up to the standard boats:)

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

July 1 2013, 8:43 AM 

More importantly, Philippines is racing in standard boats it looks like.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

July 28 2013, 8:42 PM 

Aus Head Coach just got a standing ovation from his team. Record medal haul for Australia in Hungary. Doesn't know about basic physiology or training plans ? Get back in your box you muppet as it's obvious you have no idea what you're talking about. Always great to see armchair coaches who have never won large numbers of medals at the World's level. Please just let the real coaches get on with the job - you can get back to coaching your own backwater club.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

July 28 2013, 8:47 PM 

I suspect GB will turn up with large teams when they are confident they have a program that works. Nothing wrong with that. Better to get the plan right and turn up with teams that can perform at this level (eg. previous GB prem women's crews). This is a World Championship after all and countries should turn up when they're happy with their progress rather than just send any old crew.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

July 28 2013, 8:50 PM 

Regarding Australian attendance - try an average cost of $5,000 US per competitor from Australia. This might put a slight damper on your attendance.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

July 28 2013, 11:23 PM 

Costs were just as high for Prague, but they still entered full 20's premier crews there.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

July 28 2013, 11:45 PM 

Different years, different crews

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 7 2013, 6:26 AM 

And the Prem teams Australia entered in Prague weren't a patch on their current crews. I believe in Prague they didn't even make a final in the whole event. It's called standards and maybe Australia has finally decided to hold their national representatives to a certain standard - and they're getting better results - almost no medals in Poland, Shanghai, Berlin, a fee in Sydney, hardly any in Prague, 15 in Tampa and 35 in Hungary. Sounds like those Aussie paddlers sitting on their hands are missing the boat.

Re: Tahiti - they're a team of professional outriggers who were fully sponsored by Clive Palmer, an Australian businessman who is also running for election in Australia. Aussies love their sport and won't be happy to find one of their own spending up on a foreign team.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 7 2013, 10:52 AM 

4 years later and people still talk about prague this prague that

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 8 2013, 8:45 AM 

Yeah for people who paid a fortune to get to Prague only to find the course was pathetic it still sort of sticks in the craw.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 8 2013, 8:45 AM 

Yeah for people who paid a fortune to get to Prague only to find the course was pathetic it still sort of sticks in the craw.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 11 2013, 9:36 AM 

"And the Prem teams Australia entered in Prague weren't a patch on their current crews. I believe in Prague they didn't even make a final in the whole event. It's called standards and maybe Australia has finally decided to hold their national representatives to a certain standard - and they're getting better results - almost no medals in Poland, Shanghai, Berlin, a fee in Sydney, hardly any in Prague, 15 in Tampa and 35 in Hungary. Sounds like those Aussie paddlers sitting on their hands are missing the boat."

----------------------------------------------
hahahahahh standards....and 'better results'

The standards that have been set are these:

1. Head coach takes a nice fat salary
2. Paddlers pay more than ever before due to having to travel for training camps
3. The squad becomes a mash up of whoever can afford it, rather than being geared towards the best paddlers.


In the only division that really matter (prems) - Aus couldn't even field a standard boat Opens crew. Their women were decent in Tampa (2 bronzes and beat the chinese women twice, and almost beat the Canadian girls over the 1km distance. In Szeged they were well back and off the pace, not even close to a medal.

If anyone thinks the aus crew has gone forward, they should qualify the statement and say their oldies have gone forward, while their prems have gone way back.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 15 2013, 2:14 AM 

"In the only division that really matters" ... at least we know where you stand ! Why does anyone else bother going ?

Nice fat salary - obviously you've got no idea what qualifies as a "nice, fat salary". Maybe a little bit of money to compensate for time off work, like other sports at this level ? If it gets us better quality and better results then why not. As for the camp costs - under the old system Australia were consistently smashed, now we are a realistic prospect and only a fool would say that we weren't getting better:

Prague - 3 medals (Prems didn't make finals)
Tampa - 15 medals (Prems made most finals and medalled)
Szeged - 35 medals (Prems made most finals and medalled in 10's - very close in 20's)

Looks like things are going in the right direction and as a Prem paddler I am more than happy to be part of a team that comes home with some silverware, but of course if you are such a top paddler then why don't you try out rather than throw bombs from the sidelines ...

(tumbleweed blows past)

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 15 2013, 2:17 AM 

I agree with the above, I'd rather go with a team that has a realistic chance of getting a medal. In Australia teams are always comprised of who can pay - it's called the tyranny of distance. But I can't see how a system that encourages all the best paddlers from around Australia to be part of the team is better than a system that restricts entry to paddlers from one State. How fair is that ?

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 15 2013, 3:51 AM 

Why is Rep level paddling supposed to be fair? IT's not. You want the best people in the boat.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 15 2013, 3:51 AM 

If you want fair, then you should probably stick to your club.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 15 2013, 7:43 AM 

"Szeged - 35 medals (Prems made most finals and medalled in 10's - very close in 20's)"

Sorry, but 10's don't count for a country that should be able to send only 20's (as you did in every other division.)

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 21 2013, 11:48 PM 

"Sorry, but 10's don't count for a country that should be able to send only 20's (as you did in every other division.)"

Very true

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 22 2013, 8:41 AM 

Not exactly true.....in the world of the nations cup, 10's in premier division do count.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 22 2013, 8:51 AM 

No they don't.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 22 2013, 12:56 PM 

You have so much to learn.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 22 2013, 6:50 PM 

Re: the "so much to learn" comment.

Are you saying that 10's DO count for Nations Cup? Please explain your comment.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 22 2013, 10:55 PM 

It's subjective as to whether post Prague things have improved for Australia. A national based system has improved the non premier aged categories. There was not enough talent to draw on up till Prague.

But let's discuss premier cause it is the main category. The national based system has seen the best paddlers NOT paddling for Australia in premier opens. The premier opens 10s crew in Szeged was sub standard. Good on the guys who went and sacrificed time and money but they are no where near the best male paddlers in Australia. Fact and indisputable. They are better for the experience though. The premier men can not claim any glory for medals in 10s. Don't kid yourselves that you are amongst the best in the world. There is a hot bed of talent who haven't represented Australia since Prague. Paddlers in Australia should know who those paddlers are and not be naive enough to think those paddlers aren't some of the best in the country. Most exist in two clubs. Some women included.

The Australian coach is way over paid. He has proven to have massive deficiencies in his knowledge and he is the coach only because no one decent competes for the job. Not sure where this came from but did anyone see the Aus prem women win their 1km semi then get smashed in the final? Coaches told them to go 100% in the semi, a race where all crews progressed to the final. No doubt other countries were not going 100% and rightly so. But amateurish coaches for some reason thought the girls should go 100%.

If Australia put it's best dragon boat paddlers (don't draw upon outriggers etc) in a world champs (in 20s) the results would be remarkably better. Most of the guys who were in Szeged would not make the crew and a few extra girls would come in and strengthen the girls.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 22 2013, 11:27 PM 

^^ The race you're referring to with the Aussie women winning saw only three of five teams make the final. Also, looking at the heat times, it's pretty clear that they were going to get fifth, and that the US packed it in for that race.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 22 2013, 11:36 PM 

An earlier poster wrote this:
"Aus Head Coach just got a standing ovation from his team. Record medal haul for Australia in Hungary. Doesn't know about basic physiology or training plans ? Get back in your box you muppet as it's obvious you have no idea what you're talking about. Always great to see armchair coaches who have never won large numbers of medals at the World's level. Please just let the real coaches get on with the job - you can get back to coaching your own backwater club."

Aus coach got a standing ovation from the paddlers not because of the results alone. He would have gotten a standing ovation ragrdless because there is a good team feeling of unity and a lot of emotion in the campaign. People always love clapping and feel good stuff at the end. He got the same ovation in Tampa. It does NOT make him a good coach.

You may not be aware but he never wanted to pick the crew on any thing other than fitness tests. No paddling trials or even ERG trials. He wanted to pick it on beep tests and weight tests etc.

Large numbers of medals yes. But where did they come from? Premier opens 10s doesn't count for much. Over 50s/60s 10s and even 20s are great but not that great. Same for juniors where they are little competition. There was no premier opens 20s cause the best premier men in Australi won't paddle under him. The mixed didn't medal cause the men weren't good enough. The women did well and medalling in prems is very hard. But they are not top 3 in the world. So he can't brag about large numbers of medals, they came in who care categories and few were gold. Not only that but the team was so large they had to medal alot.

Backwater club? My club is not backwater. We've been to CCWC and had a long history of success.

I know enough about the head coach to seriously question his ability. He is supported/protected by the administration in Australia to cover up any of his blunders. And there have been some. He picks crews sometimes in the marshaslling area. He has pulled paddlers from crews in the marshalling area. He said the only reason the Aus men didn't medal in Tampa was mental. He changes the technique based on success of other countries. He has NO clear selection policy and no results from trials are published or communicated. He doesn't attract the best male paddlers in the country.

He is also supported by all the support staff/sweeps etc he has picked because they need him to keep their roles. There are sweeps who take 2km turns 10m wide and have broken/crashed boats in training.

He is a good man and does his best. He has a lot of good ideas and pushes his paddlers hard. He also puts a stack of time and effort into his coaching and his passion is awesome. But there are many flaws. His training plans come from the 70s/80s when his qualifiactions were also achieved.

I know you were excited to represent Australia for the first time and are newer to the sport yourself. You haven't been coached by a good coach with up to date training knowledge etc. I know he impresses you with his Russian accent and scary pump up talks. But look at the margin between the prem men we sent to Szeged and the top 6 crews in 20s. It's massive and unless we replace him as head coach we won't get the best guys trying out and this won't change.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 22 2013, 11:55 PM 

Up till Prague and for Prague only 1 state represented Australia at world champs. We still got a 20s crew in every category. Now it's opened up to the whole country and we can't get a premier opens 20s crew. It's simple, the best guys don't want to paddle for the current coach. And some of the best girls.

Opening it up to the whole country is good. But in most categories NSW will provde most of the best paddlers, especially premier and even more so premier opens.

 
 
anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 23 2013, 12:12 AM 

An earlier posted said:
"Looks like things are going in the right direction and as a Prem paddler I am more than happy to be part of a team that comes home with some silverware, but of course if you are such a top paddler then why don't you try out rather than throw bombs from the sidelines ..."

You must be a woman cause premier opens is not coming home with silverware. 10s is not anything to brag about. Any of the 20s crews could have done it and relegated you to minor finals of the 10s. Are you proud to be in a 10s crew?

So considering Australia had a 20s opens crew in every world champos till now suggests we are not heading in the right direction.

The women and mixed got no silverware but making major finals is really good. Opens should say nothing. A 10s medal is nothing. Most of you would not make a true Australia 20s opens crew. You know who the best 2/3 clubs crews are and if you took the best 20s from them hardly any of you would make it if any.


 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

August 24 2013, 7:34 PM 

Haha Australian infighting.

You criticize Canadians

You criticize your fellow country men

Is there any positivity coming out of your nation?

 
 
MJ

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

September 6 2013, 6:54 PM 

The best paddlers in Aus don't Dragonboat.
We all know it takes years to become a good paddler not 5 months and a few fitness tests.
The Prem men were on track in Sydney. Their final time is still the fastest recorded over 500m for any Australian club or representative team.

The profile of the sport here especially in the Prem div is very low and needs to be promoted more.

Maybe Clive can spend money on an Aus Team.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

September 6 2013, 11:27 PM 

Comparing times from one race to another is meaningless. The Premier 500's in 2007 were run with a significant tailwind. So of course they were fast times.

 
 
Anonymous

Re: No Tahiti at 2013 Worlds

September 7 2013, 8:34 AM 

Exactly, using time as a standard would mean every team has gotten worse since 2007, which is obviously not true.

 
 
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