Mike K made an interesting comment in his remark about the use of oversize paddles in another forum:

"No one would have beaten Imperial Dragons this year. They were carefully selected and well trained by a good coach. The only way to compete with that formula is for other clubs to select specific athletes from a broad range of crews and provide dedicated, high intensity training with a quality coach. It's called a rep. team folks."

I think that this raises an interesting question: can regular corporate/community teams compete with a "rep" team like Canada Life?

Maybe it's not even fair to Cda Life to call them a "rep" team. What exactly is a "rep" team? Other teams had tryouts, invited (recruited) new paddlers, have quality coaches, does that make them "rep" teams?

And whether they are, or whether they're not a "rep" team, what can other teams do to eliminate the enourmous gap b/w Canada Life and the rest of the pack? 3/4 of a boat in the Corporate "A" final? Yikes.

Right now it's a race for 2nd place in Ontario. Who want to keep racing for 2nd place?

The bar has been raised. What are we going to do about it?

Very good points by Mike K and Paddlehead -- There are a number of reasons why Canada Life is so dominant in the field. First their team has a number of very experienced paddlers many of whom are/were flatwater paddlers. As a former flatwater paddler I can tell you the training you recieve is far and above what you will get after 4 or 5 years dragonboating. I began, like many, to flatwater paddle at 10 years old -- all through highschool and university -- often paddling twice a day and getting access to fairly run and very competitive regattas almost every weekend -- as well as coaching by "professional" paddling coaches who do just coach-- "full-time"-- A dragonboat paddler with, say, 5 years of experience just cannot compete with someone who has trained intensely for 7 to 10 years plus plus. As dragonboat is starting to attract talented paddlers from all paddling disciplines the field will continue to get deeper.

The trick is to develop a dragonboat crew that stays together season after season. Crew consistency goes a long way to keeping up with the elite paddlers. Paddler urnover can decimate a crew -- an A crew can quickly become a B or C crew -- so it is important to attempt to maintain DB club turnover to a minimum.

At this point many teams actively and aggressively recruit paddlers from all over -- corporate no longer means they all have to work for the same company-- some teams are much better at attracting talent than others. Take Canada Life for example -- they have access to the talent.

We need to concentrate on developing our own club programs the best we can. Year to year it will be different. Take for example the Mayfair fitness club team -- I heard they lost a great number of paddlers from last year -- who knows -- but it is clear paddler turnover can make a huge difference. Canada Life will not be beaten this year -- but let's use this as a challenge for next year to build our clubs, learn from our regatta's and recruit strong paddlers so next year-- who knows...

I just wanted to make a few notes. I admit that Canada Life is a Good team. But it is interesting to hear how the story of Canada Life changes year after year.

Let's get some clear information.

1. The members of the team do NOT comprise of ex-flatwater paddlers. They are people from existing dragonboat teams who's objective is to improve their dragonboat skills with others that share the same passion. What makes a team like them successful, is even though their technique is strong they are still willing to learn. There is no egos, just a drive to improve. Imagine the excitement of being in a boat where people have the same passion and drive for the sport.

2. Many of the people on the boat are in good physical condition. And this is evident in Wildwood. Each member on the team are dedicated in improving their physical health.

3. Going back to experience paddlers on the team. The first year that the team got together, they had a hard time getting people to join them. They also had new guy on the team that never paddled before and he still paddles for them. This year they acquire another new person on the team that never paddled.

4. The team does not have an open invite. They ask people they know who may be interested in paddling for them. Attitude and personality of the person is also important to this team.

These people on the are dragonboaters. They have worked hard to be where they are. They were fortunate to come together to be the team they are now.

Interesting comments from g. barton, but as Rob tells it there just aren't all that many ex-flatwater paddlers on Canada Life. So then, why the big gap b/w them and the rest of the A Division?

Rob, despite the lack of "open" auditions for your team, I don't think that you can deny the role that recruitment has played in the building of the team. Most of the other "A" teams are STILL CORPORATE DRIVEN. This is both an advantage and a disadvantage, as you get funds from the sponsor company, but you have to take whatever is available from the companies employee pool to stock your team. Cda Life seems to have no such disadvantage.

My personal feeling is that the time was ripe for Cda Life as they were able to pick off good paddlers from other teams who were sick of a)losing and b)bad team politics. The opportunity to leave behind teams that were underachievers, and/or were full of internal strife allowed them to draw from the competitive corporate/community pool, and over the next few years build the paddling monster that we see today.

Of course, the smartest thing they ever did was hire Blake as coach. Being just about the top coach in the province, he may be the single largest draw to joining the team.

I don't mean to discount their hard work and determination, but I think most other teams would claim to have that working for them as well.

Comments, Rob?

Paddlehead, just to clarify....I didn't write the previous post. So please don't refer to me when replying to someone else. No I'm not lying, I've signed off using my own name every time in this Forum (I see I am one of the only ones to do so). I have no fear of people knowing my opinions.

That being said here is what I will say on the subject:

1. We do have a few ex-flatwater paddlers. To my memory I think we have 2. Long removed.

2. We don't recruit per se. More often than not people ask us to join. The only year we recruited was three years ago when we were formed. And even then it was primarly paddlers who were not happy with their previous team, or defunct teams like American Express.

3. The Imperial Dragons are not the only team that is corporate but not employee filled. I believe others like Mercedes Benz and Hunter Steel are simliar (I believe...please correct me if I am wrong). Star Choice was like this 4 years ago. Either way I see no shame in this.

4. Training, determination and hard work play a large part. It is no secret that we lost 2 years in a row in the TIDBRF final prior to winning this year. BMO and Cyberplex (who was yet another built team) have beaten us.

5. I believe Blake is an excellent coach. However, he was a relative unknown 4 years ago. There are tons of great coaches out there, and perceptions are different as to who is the best. Just like in pro sports, the "best" coach changes from year to year. For what its worth, I'd still put my money on Blake though.

Also, I don't believe any team is capable of being as outright dominant as what some of you think Canada Life is. Admitedly, we have success, but I learned long ago that just because everyone thinks you should win doesn't mean you do. We shouldn't forget that 911, will have the usual strong teams (CIBC,TTA,Scotia, etc) as well as canoe clubs such as Madawaska, House of Lancaster and others.

It's all about attitude and how hard the team trains. I've coached a team of scrawny University kids to within 1.5 seconds of going to Vancouver next year. Borrowing a line from BMO, "It is possible!"

I don't think it's fair to condemn a team just because they are winning. Imperial Dragons are an exellent team for a lot of reasons. Every team has a different mandate. Some teams, like Mayfair will only use homegrown talent, either a member or a staff member of the Mayfair Fitness Club, for the big regattas. Other teams like to keep a least a certain percentage. Then others like the Imperial Dragons build their teams from the entire dragonboat talent pool. As long as the rules that are set out by the particular regatta, ie. no roster switching at the last minute for the finals or no carded athletes, they haven't done anything wrong except build a strong powerful team that wins races.

There are a lot of good athletes and good coaches out there, and by no means are the Imperial Dragons a team that couldn't be competed with as long as you're willing to put in the same kind of dedication to training year after year.

Quit frankly, in my opinion, a team with similar training and fitness levels that is homegrown and has been together for a few seasons would have an advantage over a team made up of paddlers from everywhere. It's up to all the other teams to take the challenge and develop a program to give the Imperial Dragons a run for their money.

Smuthee is right. With the right dedication and attitude the hard work will pay off. A large part of being an athlete is achieving personal and team bests and learning how to work with a group of people in a cohesive and powerful way.

We are at a time in dragnboat now -- there are a lot of experienced dragon boat paddlers and teams out there and the level of competition will only get steeper. Kudos to Canada Life for putting together an excellent program and making things happen. They have sounded a bit of a wake up call to us all -- we need to train harder, work and grow as teams, and build our programs step by step. Attitude is key -- suck it up and get in the gym and on the water and compete, compete, compete.

There are a lot of great strength training programs out there that merit a good long look-- some dragonboat specific -- as power in the boat is something we can never have enough of.

Hi Smuthe, Rob,

Don't get me wrong. I was in no way condemning Cda Life for being a winner. I was just trying to raise discussion on we can compete with them.

I realize that there is no magic pill. Winning in dragon boating basicially follows the same recipe as any other sport. You need preparation, heart, talent, and even a little luck. So I don't know what I really expected to hear that would be new or revolutionary. Just talking, I guess.

I agree that any true "team" will beat a put-together crew, given similar levels of ability. Cda Life has now had 3 years to refine their roster, and develope the right team chemistry. The promise they showed over the last two years has now been fully realized.

How long can they keep it up? Who knows. Nothing lasts forever, and few teams can remain on top of the heap for more than a few years before the dreaded "rebuilding" phase must begin. Not to worry Rob, I think you guys have a few good years left in you. Keep it up.

But I do think that Cda Life's dominance this year can be considered a good thing. It's a wake-up call. It shows the rest of us that we have some serious work to do. Southern Ontario is a great centre for dragon boating, the high level of competition pushes us get stronger every year.

And like Rob said, this season isn't over yet. Let's see what we can do to catch them by GWN this September.

Paddles up!

I personally hate Rob Chang, and everything he stands for!

Re Smüthe's comment about Imp Dragons not doing anything wrong - I agree. Imp Dragons raised the bar through their performance at the Island. A couple of years ago, House of Lancaster did the same thing - landslide victory. How they assemble their crews is their business, they met all the rules for crew selection.

They truly are a great crew. I don't think that they're invincible though. 911 will bring out the best in Ontario and definitely be the most competitive regatta this season. I doubt the A division final will be such a landslide for any particular team.

So here's the challenge - who is going to step up and give the Imp Dragons a run for their money? We (the other A division teams) have about 8 weeks to improve on our results from the island.

If you're complacent enough to 'settle' for second place - that's your issue. The essence of sport is to strive to improve and compete with every attempt. The results that the Imp Dragons produced at the island is good for the entire sport! It challenges us all to be better.

If you're not looking for competition - join a recreational league.

New Bel Ini

Thanks Jeff, I love you too. Good luck in Sudbury

I would just like to make a comment on behalf of my team and myself.
I have spent the last 12 years enjoying this sport and hopefully have a few more years left. This year has been our most successful and we are all determined to improve maybe even hitting the number one spot.
Each member on this team is an employee of the corporation that we represent and do this not only for them but for ourselves as well. We work hard , enjoy our success and re-evaluate our losses and try to improve. I agree that keeping a group of people together season after season is the best way to improve, as we are living proof of it.
For the record we did not ride wash.

I think it is great what Canada Life has done. Personally all they have done is committed themselves to win and dipped into the pool of paddlers out there. This is why Bank Teams have done so well. I raced for Royal Bank a few years ago, and basically the Banks have the ability to recruit from thousands of employees who wish to represent there company. Obviously most have tryouts and so can dwindle it down to 24-26 fit paddlers. Couple that with the fact that banks are majorly competative with one another and you have 4 or 5 excellent teams committed to excelling. This is obviously a fact when you compare the bankers cup with just about any other industry challenge. If you took the best paddlers from BMO, Scotia, CIBC... you could put together quit the team I am sure.

Where does that leave community teams, well exactly where Canada Life is. It is basically a community team of dedicated hard working paddlers that have secured corporate sponsorship, much in the same way Shaolin Monks did last year when they raced as Cyberplex. What I think you will see is more of this occuring(creating super teams form the greater pool of paddlers) and probably the Bank Teams pull away from the more recreational teams. There is nothing wrong with this and is probably healthy as more experienced serious paddlers will be able to find teams of the proper calibre to paddle on. Like most people have said already to create elite teams you will need 24 dedicated, fit paddlers willing to sacrifice themselves for 1-3 years to reach such a level. You will have to add coaching, of which there are plenty of good ones out there. Get that combination and you will have an elite division of community/corporate teams offering exciting races. JMHO.

Canada Life won fair and square, anyone who whines about losing to superior competition. Nothing in the world replaces hard work and perserverance.

As well as being a dragon boat paddler, I am a wrestler and people used to whine about wrestling me. "He can't be 148 pounds, there's no way I'm wrestling him no fair!"

Whining about being completely outclassed transcends all sports - and like someone said, "the bar has been raised". And so does judging a book by its cover. "They're all flat-water paddlers"?! RIGHT....


You put in your dues, and you try and try again until you succeed. Canada Life's dominance is good for our sport. There are far too many people in our country who do not who do not see dragon boat as a serious sport because of the "everyone can do it" sales pitch that the sport has had to use to grow. Now, not only do people know our sport to be open to everyone (financial aspects aside), but there are some seriously gifted athletes doing this. So clap your hands and consider yourselves beaten

- A rookie paddler with some insight

Jason... I agree with what you say - congrats to Canada Life for a job well done, but I don't think anyone here has been whining... my interpretation of this discussion has just been people surmising what they need to do to be competitive with this team that dominated the Island Race...

From what I can read Jason, no one was whinning, they were all saying ok that's what we have to do to get there. Someone appears a bit testy. As for the dominance factor, I personally feel it is a bit overdone. The fact of the matter someone dominates when they are rarely beaten for 2 or 3 years. Bank of Montreal did that for the previous three years, and lets not forget there A team was in Hong Kong this year.

Jason, me thinks you doth protest too much...you are way too high strung. Read the messages above this one and you will see there are no whiners, just paddlers who are looking forward to taking on the challenge to raise the bar right along with Imperial Dragons.

And for the record, it was Blake Hara, the coach for Imperial Dragons, in an interview to the newspaper that said dragonboating was a "everyone can do it" sport.

Welcome to the sport Rookie, and thanks for the scoop on your wrestling career.

I was relieved to see that half way through your e-mail you correct yourself labelling us a rep team.
Our very first year at Toronto Island we posted the fastest time of the wknd with paddlers who had never paddled before, we also did that in our second year. For anyone who is interested, Canada Life's secret to success is plain and simple. We have what I consider the remedy to win, it involves attitude,commitment,hard work,sacrifice and respect. Respect for the DB community and for other teams, we don't take any race lightly. Take all those components and add good coaching. Our philophosy is one where we belive we can always do better, go faster.

Yes, dragon boat is a sport for everyone, and I think that's what makes it wonderful. So I wasn't objecting to that. I am accustomed to quick burst and power sports - this was such a welcome change and a great way to cross-train.

Smuthe, I was making a point. Paralleling the wrestling to the dragon boat. Too high strung? That depends on the intonation that you place in my words. And that is also a relative term. Interpret as you must. If I were to add intonation and assume the worst in your comments, I would have taken you addressing me as a rookie as condescending. But I didn't, so it's all good. Sigh. This always happens on message boards.

Whining? I guess I should have clarified I didn't mean you guys, but I was referring to the ones who dubbed them a rep team.

perhaps jason chose his words too strongly - it may not have been whining per se as he put it, but the implications behind some comments of an unlevel playing field...or even that the remarks were made in such a manner as to kind of console everyone else for getting dominated, i.e. it's okay we lost because Canada Life is actually a rep team, or they use flatwater paddlers, or they can go around plucking anyone while the rest of us are True Corporate teams, or they get to have the best coach, and so forth. then again, many others have become re-energised by this hurdle, so that's always a good thing.
me, i'd liken the 2001 CLID to the 2001 Colorado Avalanche. Both are elite teams within well-run organisations that boasts top-notch talent up and down the roster. Both have faced criticism from some quarters about how they seem to have more freedom than most in assembling the team. Both had been questioned on whether they could actually put it all together. Both dealt with heartbreaking losses near the top for the past two years that in turn strengthened the mindset of the team. And then both had an overriding goal right from the start of "training camp" to work with unwavering consistency so they wouldn't have to feel that way again - the Avs firstly to win the President's Trophy so if it came down to a seventh game again it would be in their own building, and the 16W and the "Win it for Ray"; the CLID to work that much damn harder right from the outset and distance themselves from the pack so there would be no question they would triumph ["Win it for Blake? =)].

There is no secret as to why Canada Life is winning.

And it's not flatwater paddlers, recruiting methods, secret coaching methods, over-sized paddles or dominant physical prowess. That's all B.S.

The only REAL differences are: 1) They want it more and; 2)They work harder to get it.

That's it. That's all. I don't think it's raisng the bar as much as it is uping the ante. Everyone can play if they want to. But from now on those that want to are going to have to decide whether they're in or out.

The more teams that decide they're in, the better it'll be for our sport.

Everyone talks about fitness, former experience, coaching, technique, even paddles...

I don't think that the Imperial Dragons is the way it is because of any of the above - it all helps, of course...

The thing that keeps us together for the past 3 years has been hammered into us over and over - after races when things get a little heated, after we run a good race or even after we run a bad race.

This thing is also one of the MAJOR factors in getting invited to the team.

It's all about attitude folks : The Imperial Dragons have always focussed on keeping a positive attitude - we try to with other teams, ourselves, our administration, and coaching.

'nuff said

'nuff said.

Compare the ID team from 2001 and the Mayfair team of 07. Massive differences. Mayfair was a true rep team. Sorta like the 1998 Yankees

The 98 Yankees? Mayfair needs a serious reality check.

Ah, so predictable...
Make an outrageous comment and then attribute it to the team...
Two insults for the price of one...

I'd say Mayfair 07 is like the 1972 Miami Dolphins. Or put another way, the 2007-08 New England Patriots are trying to be the 2007 Mayfair Predators

Six years later, have things changed?

"No one would have beaten Imperial Dragons this year. They were carefully selected and well trained by a good coach. The only way to compete with that formula is for other clubs to select specific athletes from a broad range of crews and provide dedicated, high intensity training with a quality coach. It's called a rep. team folks."

Looking back at Mike's words, they still seem to be true. The "rep" team remark is the only item that can still be debated. Their formula was not unique, they merely applied it more sucessfully.

But the need for high quality paddlers selected from a diverse talent pool, trained by a high performance coach, that's as true today as it was then. The difference today is that while the Imperial Dragons drew talent primarily from Dragon Boat crews, Mayfair has also drawn a lot of talent from Canoe Clubs, mostly older master's level paddlers. Nothing wrong with that, it's the new game. Play or stay home.


Has anything changed? Yep, it's gotten even tougher to compete.

sadly - got to agree.
mayfair turned from a solid good db crew to a rep crew.

There will always be dominate teams.My 1st DB race was the Island in 2004. The only team we knew were the Imps because they had won the trip the previous 2 years. By 2004 the X-pads were the team to beat but Huron Kayak apeared out of nowhere. Of course MCC raced in a different catagory until 2005 when they wanted the trip. 2006 , 2007 Mayfair dominates and for the first time a club crew beats throw together teams of canoe racers.
The sport is evolving. Club teams are much better and some pur DB racers have developed into very good paddlers. Many top canoe racers , sprint and marathon , don't bother with DB because the island trip is no longer available and they are racing OC. Elite teams with a mix of top DBers and canoe racers are training regularly for several years such as Mayfair and the national seniors.

Elite teams with a mix of top DBers and canoe racers are training regularly for several years such as Mayfair and the national seniors.

Mayfair is a rep team. Full stop.

"Mayfair is a rep team. Full stop"
Since you will brook no discussion with your "full stop", what is your point?

.