I'm surprised that no discussion has been started about the opinions of the site guys doing the power rankings. Maybe I'll be the one to start causing trouble and dissent.

Where have the Shogun Warriors gone in the power rankings? They finished with a respectable 13th in Montreal, and won the C division in TIDBRF. They belonged in the B, but because of the race format and their no-show on friday, they were relegated to a lower division. They also had decent results in Welland. (Speaking of which, why weren't Welland results used?)

Other notes-- both the Toronto Women and the U of T ViCrew are new on the rankings list, and the teams tied for 4th in Waterloo. So what's with the huge disparity of 13 spots between the two of them? Also, there were two Komodo Dragon teams in Montreal. Are you sure you looked at the right one? I'm thinking you guys didn't. And Lastly, contrary to the comment beside their name, the Monks have two podium finishes this year. At TIDBRF Community (3rd) and the same finish in Waterloo.

And just to make it clear, I'm not on any of the teams that I've mentioned, so I'm not speaking for anyone of them. Just trying to cause trouble.

Montreal doesn't count for anything, although it does allow it seems for movement on Power Rankings but not the other two, that is clearly outlined. Welland didn't count, i beleive the monitor of this board regards a podium as 1,2,3 overall in A division not in lower ones. All the rules are outlined on the first page.

Hi, in a very fiendly way, I am wondering if you read the home page on this site or reviewed the frequently asked questions.

It explains how the rankings are calculated. The first two (Strait and Revised) are stickly based on top 20 finishes in events where at least 5 of the power ranked teams compete.

For example, my team the Scream'n Demons won Woodstock last year, but it didn't count because there were not enough ranked teams at the event, which I think is completely fair.

You also get a break if you fall out of the top 20 uncharacteristically in an event (which is more than likely a roster issue). This race wouldn't count against you.

The difference between the Strait and Revised is that teams with 3 or more finishes are all ranked above teams with less than three. It's to reflect consistency.

The only ranking which has any personal opinion input is the power rankings.

Personally, I love the site, if you want to move up ya gotta race. Visibility of course helps for the Power rankings, correct me if I'm wrong...

Bucky is right about the Monks. Waterloo was their second podium finish.

They also finished 3rd in TIDBRF - Community this year as well.

Uh, to Paul and Demons.

I was never questioning the straight or revised rankings on this site. I was questioning the power rankings. Yes, I know that it's all opinion. That's what I was questioning. Their opinions. There's got to be reasons and arguments behind opinions, n'est pas? Now I suppose the "Power" of a team can be interpreted differently. Would that be how "hot" a team is? Or would it be more specifically, if you raced all 35 teams, that's the order you'd figure they'd come out placing in?

Anyways, my whole point was that some teams were overlooked in the power rankings, and deserved to be up there, while other teams should probably be relegated to lower spots. I was arguing opinions. Nothing more.

And did Welland not have 5 ranked teams attending? From what I recall, Sing Fai, Toronto Women, Shogun Warriors, Big Fish, and Komodo Dragons were there.

So thanks, Demons, for the wonderful summary of the ins and outs of this Rankings site. But I'm thinking it was just a communication breakdown.

Tuna out.

Actually Welland does not count. There were 5 teams there but Women only raced women they did not race against mixed so there were only 4 that we can go against for times. As for power rankings, well it has to be total opinion and he/she states it. This is the reason this sounds like US college football. I am sure if you polled the opinions of everyone on this board you would get dozens of different opinions on who should be there and where.

Not counting Welland in the stats makes a lot of sense, both for the reasons mentionned by Paul Zap, and for others. For instance, Komodo and Shogun are ranked lower than 20th spot anyhow, so only 3 teams count towards the 5 teams in the top 20 required to count the regatta.

(no offense intended towards Shogun or Komodo, both could easily crack the top 20 with just a wee push)

Also, of the 5 ranked teams mentionned, only Sing Fai placed any higher than 10th on any of the given ranking lists. Should a win count if the only competition is from the lower half of the ranking list? I mean, if you were the winner of the regatta, but your only competition was ranked #15,16,17,18,19&20, should that win be counted with the same weight as a regatta where you beat the teams ranked #1,2,3,4,5&6?

Perhaps certain major regattas, like TIDBRF and GWN should be given extra weight. Maybe this is already counted in the Power Rankings, but I think the straight stats and revised rankings can be skewed by giving small-fry regattas equal weight with the majors.

or a little wash riding :)

You make great points about winning a competition with no one from the top ten in it. Woodstock last year had 4 top 20 teams in it, one shy and we came third. Now as much as the Komodos would have loved to have jumped up, and we would have, it would not have been a clear indication of where we were. I think this is where power rankings come in, and an excellent job done on it. Any teams within 5-8 spots ahead of us we can compete against and beat on any given day and vice versa. Get over that range and it is a whole other ball game to shoot for. Personally I place more emphasis for us on the power rankings. I would imagine the closer that you get to the top ten the more important all rankings become. Also any teams going to Woodstock this year, great event. So far Rogers, Komodo's, Royal Bank and the Demons I know are going. One more team and we have another santioned event. Been doing it for 4 years, lots of fun, you won't be disappointed. It surely kills London, better water, friendly people, and the same amount of boats yet they get it done in 1 day.

I'm well aware that everyone has a totally different set of opinions on what teams belong where. That was the main reason I wrote that post to begin with. I wanted to hear other people's opinions on what the Power rankings should be like. For example, I would love to get into a heated discussion with Rob over here why my Edmonton Oilers are a much better team than his pathetic Montreal Canadiens. Silly analogy, actually. There isn't really any hope for the Habs.

But it looks like no one really wants to discuss this. I tried.

On another note, thanks for the lowdown on Welland. I just learned that Provincial flatwater championships are held there. Do they use the same course? If so, it looks like all the compliments for the race site are legitimate.

If you think this thread is short, it would be much shorter if one was asked to defend the hapless habs.

Evidentally, I know Bucky (???). But mocking my Habs is just cruel...

Okay Bucky, sorry that we disappointed you. Sure, I'll jump in the pool!

So, my beloved BMO First Dragons are ranked BELOW the hapless Scotia Spittlefires and the CIBClones, eh? And even below those Bent Mercedes and the T&A Hammerheads? (who, by the way, have really gone to pot after taking on that Andrew Fox character. I mean really, what were they thinking?).

Why, it's an outrage, an OUTRAGE I tell you! We should be ranked above ALL those teams! Heck, I think we should be ranked #1, just because I'm on the team. Yes, it's all about me. ME! All James, all the time!

ha, ha ha, ha ha ha, hahahahahahaha


<cough>...ahem.


(Note to the severely mentally challenged : I'm kidding )

Oops. Forgot to CMA.

Disclaimer:
The opinions provided in the preceeding bit of tripe are solely those it's author, who having been sitting far too long in front of an x-ray spewing computer monitor has obviously lost what little was left of his so-called "mind". They in no way reflect the opinions or beliefs held by the more mentally stable members of the First Dragons team.

If you think this thread is short, it would be much shorter if one was asked to defend the hapless habs.

We'll settle all this in September.

BTW, my team captain got an email about the men's/women's races at Ontario Place. For no extra cost (wow!) teams can pair up and enter all men's and all women's races like last year (I'm assuming 1 x 250m and 1 x 500m race).

paddlehead, zap > first off, "a regatta qualifies for inclusion in these rankings if at least five teams participating in the regatta have top 20 placements in at least one other event". not whether they're ranked in the top 20. so sing tao, big fish, jetstart, shogun, komodo etc. would make it count.

Secondly, their outline makes no mention of whether they have to be top 10 teams or teams 11-20. so that has no bearing on anything. Not that I necessarily agree with that, but that's beside the point. obviously, a Guelph top 20 wouldn't come close to resembling a 911 top 20 anyway. and many teams fell off of a top 20 in the 911 not because of roster problems, but simply because there were so many other teams better than them. but then again how much work do you want these guys to do?

no one actually broached the central questions of why are certain teams ranked where they are, or why are some of those teams even on there, or why are these teams omitted? yeah definitely Shogun should be included in the PR with the placings they've gotten and their consistency, for example. no kidding the PR is a matter of opinion but we're here on this board to discuss opinions, aren't we? again, though, how much do you want from them? there does seem to be more consideration put into the teams in the top half and that is how it should be; i don't think they spend many sleepless nights wondering whether this team or another should be 31st or hey maybe 33rd.

oh yeah, a better argument for why Welland shouldn't be included is that there were only eleven teams participating in the mixed division anyway.

I agree with Paul, Woodstock was a great event. My only complait was that the beer tent closed before we got over there after consuming our private stock.

We felt really bad that we were not able to make an appearance since we won the event. I'm thinking that probably didn't look very good. It won't happen this year regardless of our placing.

I also hope that we can get a few more ranked teams out.

Welland only had 11 mixed teams a well so even if there were enough ranked teams it probably shouldn't have counted since you couldn't have finished worst than 11th. Thoughts? If all 11 were ranked how would that fair against an event where there were 100 teams, but only 5 ranked?

I'm thinking that we need a weighting system based on how many ranked teams are entered into an event as a multiplyer.

For example, you could calculate the weighting by giving the top ranked team from the site 20 points down to 1 for the 20th ranked and then add up all the points based on who's participating. You could do that historically to get the mediam which would have a multiplyer of one. Or you could just assume that half was the median (20...1) = 210/2 = 105. So if any combination of teams participating is more than 105 points then that race would count for full marks otherwise you would weight the results (Kind of like a bell curve)

Sounds complicated, but once it was set up it would all happen automatically. I'd be happy to help put it together if you really think its would be worth the effort. I'm thinking it would probably just over complicate things. I guess you could add a weighted rankings listing and have your cake and eat it also.

The Scream'n Demons and Dragons of Steel joined last year for the Mens and Womens teams and that was a blast. For any guys out there that have not tried it, you will not believe the power, what a rush. I would recomend a practice or two if at all possible to adjust.

Wow, sorry for the book

Cheers

Bo,

When did Jetstart place in the top 20 for a qualifying event?

Demons jumped the cannon in Woodstock last year. Naughty, naughty.

Starter..."Attention Please"
Rob Atwill... "Go!"
Starter.... fires cannon.
Demons win... yeah!

Sorry, couldn't help but bring it up but there's no defense.

Hey JP, there is a perfectly good defence and that is that it's complete Bulls@@t.

The started said attention please Your right there.
Then three people said go including Rob (Who said it second), but nobody actually started paddling "on any team" as far as I could tell before the gun went off.

If there had been a false start they would have called it and believe me people wined about it enough that they made sure there was no problem.

Besides we won by 4 or 5 seconds so I don't see how it would have mattered anyway.

And one more thing, if we had successfully "run" the start then all the better since every cox who has any idea what they are doing always tries to get a running start.

If you want revenge bring it on in Woodstock, don't take shots at our team especially since they are completely unsupported. It sounds like sour grapes.

Sorry for the rant, but you pressed my nerve, Try winning your first ever event as a team and have it people try and cheapen in with that kind of BS.

Cheers

rob > jetstart ended up 20th at this year's TIDBRF Community...heh heh heh. also, they actually ended up 21st at 911, flying under the Air Canada banner.

demon > damn that was quick. you posted, what, eight seconds after me with a solution to all of life's problems! by life i mean a weighting for dragon boat festivals.





[a call-out from the peanut gallery: "and he's not joking either!"]

Rob, you probably don't know me, and I don't know you either. But I've seen you at regattas, and the deep-down sorrow you feel for your hockey team isn't as deep as you think. You wear the chagrin on your face, and it even surfaces in your words when you type in dragonboat forums.

Hey, what are you eating, and where can I get some.

Well I think my rationale is probably the one used by the individual on the board, but if not, could the dragon boat rankings team please clarigy. I still say it is because there where only 4 ranked teams in the mixed division. As for Woodstock glad to see there is another team out there that realizes what a great event this is.Maybe if the Demons and Komodos keep pumping it we can get a cut of the dues. The Demons came first, G Force Second and the Komodo's third, great placings for lower ranked teams, which would drop if a couple of top ten teams came out. If it wasn't such a great event I am sure the Demons and the Komodo's would keep it a little secret to stay in A division there, but like we say all you other teams are missing out on a great event. Correct about the beer tent though.

Demon, Knew I'd ruffle your feathers. See you at the line in Woodstock buddy. Train hard.

yea