This forum deals with ponds which have been built mainly for koi similar to those featured on the KOI Cymru website. Even if you have not built your pond yet then your views are welcome. This is a chance to discuss your ideas and views with other koi-keepers. Please mention the country,and state or county,as in different parts of the World we have different methods and climate. If you are responding to a message already posted then please use the response button on the bottom of the message, and it will then appear as a subsiduary of that message and so easier for others to find.
A good site for health is KOIVET by Dr Erich L Johnson and it can be found at www.koivet.com
This Forum must not be used for commercial advertising.
a bit of advice please
by paul b
good day
have just got koi pond running the weekend ,at the moment i am running the return to the pond down the water fall ,the water fall i built ,down the side of the water fall there are some bricks which have been bedded on the base to form a channel ,the water is down running great but comming i contact with the morter bed ,the bed is 600mm each side ,will this small amount of morter raise the ph of the water or should i seal it with g4 .
thanks paul
Posted on Apr 20, 2005, 4:33 PM from IP address 82.36.109.24
The surface area of my pond is 5.5m x 2m . The pond is approx 2500 gall . My question is - What turnover rate should i be looking for for the skimmer and thus which pump ? Im thinking Aquamaq 5500 or 10000 ?? Also could someone recommend a suitable filter for the job of a surface skimming system . Which is better a cartridge system ( Yamitsu or Hydroclean ) or a box such as Oase Filtoclear but what size should i use (3000,6000 or 11000) . I have heard that the cartridge systems do tend to get clogged up with scale/calcium ??? and is having another UV in a box system overkill ?? Sorry to ramble on but any suggestions are gratefully received . NB. (Main filter system will use Nexus 200 , UV and heater )
Posted on Apr 17, 2005, 9:42 PM from IP address 81.153.184.202
I would say the flow rate is more related to the size of the opening in the skimmer than the size of the pond, over size the pump for the skimmer and the skimmer will run dry, (not a problem) but so may the pump which is a problem.
If the skimmer is a commercial skimmer did it not come with recommendations for flowrate?
Posted on Apr 18, 2005, 10:32 AM from IP address 84.67.164.140
Thanks Sean , hadn't even considered that . I haven't bought the skimmer yet but was probably going to go for an Olympic or Certikin , both wide mouth .
Posted on Apr 18, 2005, 10:36 AM from IP address 193.108.78.10
I'm just in the process of purchasing a floating skimmer, which allows me to draw half the water from the bottom, and half from the top, while skimming leaves and other debris.
I've found three: Aquatic Eco's S750B, Pondmaster 2002 and Aladdin IP200
These all seem to be better suited to skimming, without causing an eyesore, and the baskets lift-out easily to remove leaves, etc.
Anyone have a preference?
Posted on Apr 20, 2005, 1:46 PM from IP address 67.71.54.8
I currently use flocor in the biological chambers of my filter boxes, i have been reading about biohome media (sintered glass) and from what i have read it appears to be a better media. Because of this i was thinking of swapping to this biohome media. I was wondering if anyone was using biohome and could let me know what they their opinions of it are before i buy it.
Thanx Alot
Posted on Apr 19, 2005, 7:10 PM from IP address 82.38.196.107
Hi, Biohome should be used in a trickle filter, slow moving water through it, put a seperate IE Tricle Tower with Bio-home in, I have known people take water from the last chamber of thier filter, through a pipe with Bio-home in, back to the first chamber of the filter
Keith
Posted on Apr 20, 2005, 8:56 AM from IP address 62.252.32.12
Not Koi. Its Blue and Silver fish which we first bought three years ago. Could be a some form of 'Gold' Fish but not sure. Anyway have just discovered that its fins are rotting away, and there is a sore near its gills. The sore is round with a hole in the middle. The fish is still swimming around and feeding. It seems to be the only fish effected in the pond. No signs of this condition affecting the koi. We are trying to catch the fish to quarantine, do you think a bit of salt will help?
Posted on Apr 19, 2005, 10:05 AM from IP address 80.176.91.232
Just got off the phone to the Garden Centre I bought fish four years ago. They think its a bacterial problem. I need to go down to buy some medication to add to the vat. She says it will take about a week for the fish to get better. She also assured me that the fins will grow back. She says because the fish is still feeding and swimming around that this is a good sign.
She wanted me to treat the whole pond (3,000gls) but I am not sure about this, if any other fish comes down with whatever this is, I would rather treat them in the VAT until its all cleared up. Will let you all know how I get on. Now all we've got to do is catch the fish!!!
Posted on Apr 19, 2005, 12:07 PM from IP address 80.176.91.232
thank gents for your comments just a couple of questions does the colour of the pond effect the colour of the fish ie pigmentation, one other question does a certain colours help stop the build up of alge. i am thinking of doing my pool british racing green now, any other comments would be appreciated. kind regards alfie
Posted on Apr 18, 2005, 11:17 PM from IP address 82.36.128.115
So far 'no scum' line!!! Been told that the smoother the fibreglass the less chance of Blanketweed attaching itself to it. Lastly finding that the black shows off the colours better on my fish.
Shazz
Posted on Apr 19, 2005, 10:25 AM from IP address 80.176.91.232
Hi i am a novice koi keeper based in cornwall and i have a problem with one of my Koi's which does not appear to be feeding it seams to spend a lot of time hidding under planters and only comes out occasionaly and some times when it swims it turns on its side all the other fish seem fine and are eating well (there are 8 others)water test says every thing is ok. Any ideas what to do would be appreciated
Posted on Apr 17, 2005, 8:43 AM from IP address 195.93.21.38
There are a number of possibilities John.
1. The fish may simply be frightened hence the timid behaviour.
2. The fish may have suffering from parrasites hence the flashing (swims on it's side in an attempt to scrape off whatever is bothersome)
3. The hiding may be due to the Koi feeling unwell, due to bacterial or parrasitic infection.
Try and befreind a local Koi keeper and see if you can get them to take a look for you. A microscopic examination may be required to identify parrasites but you need somebody knowledgable to look at the fish and advise you accordingly.
Posted on Apr 17, 2005, 9:44 PM from IP address 213.120.101.21
Hi alan thanks for your response the fish took a piece of food yesterday but spat it out this morning it took a piece and kept it down do you think it might be on the road to recovery
john
Posted on Apr 18, 2005, 8:25 AM from IP address 195.93.21.38
Eating is a good sign and he may well just be having a difficult time at the moment. The temperatures in un-heated ponds are wandering around all over the place currently and this can make one or two koi a bit unsure where food is concerned.
Posted on Apr 18, 2005, 10:08 PM from IP address 213.120.101.21
Been using this site for months now and we have finaly started digging our pond. I am not even a foot deep and we have got to get a digger in for the rest (chalk)14' x 9'x 5'deep. We are buying shoreham filters and going to use a blagdon p8000 in the last bay for the return after UV before the venturi.
Can anyone help with cheap pipework I am going to use ordinary underground pipe but not sure if this is ok.
Secondly where can I get the re-inforcing mesh for the concrete base?
Thanks
Craig
Posted on Apr 18, 2005, 8:07 PM from IP address 82.34.104.171
i used ordinary waste pipe for my bottom drain which is at a depth of 6 feet and poly pipe for the drain offs on the filters it is cheaper than pressure pipe and it is all running fine as for the reinforcing any good builders merchant will supply this it is around £15 for 2m *3m approx hope this helps
Posted on Apr 18, 2005, 10:07 PM from IP address 81.79.63.45
I'm not the pond owner, my partner is and he is devastated that his pond, which is over three years old and is his pride & joy, seems to have been damaged by some work that has been going on in the garden.. He covered the pond with heavy net whilst the work was going on, but this morning most of the water has gone. It is a very big pond with lots of large koi and although we have not yet lost any fish, he is just too upset to know what to do. The liner must be punctured - does anyone know how we can sort this out please? Any help at all would be gratefully received.
Thanks.
Posted on Apr 11, 2005, 2:57 PM from IP address 212.21.112.245
I would go to my nearest BQ/Homebase and buy the largest paddling/swimming pool they have to accommodate for koi, if possible hook up your filter system to it. He may well have to drain the pond to find the leak. With the fish relocated this will relieve the stress of both your partner and the fish and give him to the breathing space to repair the damage. Protect the pond with netting if this is possible.
See my reply regarding Increase Pond Volume and how I kept my fish in one of these pools for six months.
Good luck
Posted on Apr 11, 2005, 3:42 PM from IP address 80.176.91.232
As suggested B&Q etc for large paddling pools but get those with inflatable collars only eg ,
not those with inflatable walls.
Re the leak, is there any external plumbing that could have been displaced or cracked? If not and it is a true pond leak switch any pumps off and leave the water to find its own level. When the level stops dropping the leak is just above the water level.
PS anybody want azolla from fishless water?
Posted on Apr 11, 2005, 6:19 PM from IP address 84.67.209.255
Sorry I have just noticed your question, azolla is fine in small quantities and if your koi are eating it great, fresh food. BUT keep it under control and compost excess. DO NOT release it into the wild, mine should have died over the winter and it just shows what a mild winter can do. The azolla is 3/4" thick on some barrels just out of shot in that photo, that supports a cock blackbird's weight. Your "local public pond" may soon be in deep do do if 'they' dont do something about the azolla.
I would warn your daughter against adding things from other ponds to your pond, she may also be adding fry, disease or parasites. Similarily dont add stuff to the local pond. I set up a new pond intended for growing plants, I took some plants out of my goldfish pond to start things off and a few weeks later I had inch long goldfish fry in the plant pond.
Posted on Apr 18, 2005, 6:04 PM from IP address 84.65.65.9
Is there a particular time of year when Koi stockists import Small Koi Stocks? Every time i visit my local stockist they havent got any in yet and they have advised it will be soon. Just interested to see if this is the case all over the country - e.g. May all over the UK.
Cant wait to invest in a couple more this year, however limited cash to splash - hence small koi wanted.
Posted on Apr 18, 2005, 4:34 PM from IP address 62.24.129.26
They are probably breeding in the pond and the larvae are being drawn into the filters. Solution, lift the lids daily, net out the larvae you see and dump them back in the pond. If you do this a feeding time the fish will thank you for the treat. I can feed my fish solely of mozzie larvae, deliberately encouraged to grow in barrels down the garden, for 2 or 3 weeks of the year. I dump the larvae in the inflowing stream and the smaller fish will swim up stream to dine.
Posted on Apr 18, 2005, 10:37 AM from IP address 84.67.164.140
good day
i have just finished my pond ,what i did i got the base poured in leveled it out then blocked off the base when the blockwork was done i put a smooth thin coat of render on the walls and then rendered the base with a slight bench towards the bottom drain ,hope this helps .any other question if i can help just ask
Posted on Apr 17, 2005, 4:31 PM from IP address 82.36.109.24
Hi
Iam after some advise on heating my 2000 gallon pond.
At the moment i use a 3kw Elecro (very good but costly on electric)inline heater.
I am trying to find out if you can get a central heating boiler that will run off propane, my thoughts where something for a caravan, as the household ones seem to have very large outputs. Any input would be apreciated. (or any donations to keep my electric bill down and stop wife moaning)
Posted on Apr 11, 2005, 1:52 PM from IP address 62.78.50.114
hi yes electric is very expensive i bought a second hand combi boiler to run my pond unfortunatly it had been converted to run on calor gas (lpg) so i nhad to go out and buy a new one i am told that you can buy any boiler and buy the jets to convert them to lpg ( best left to the fitter though) the conversion prices vary from boiler to boiler but they are not that expensive though . or do as i have done and run a yellow gas pipe down the garden from your household supply . we have hardly noticed any change in our gas bill
Posted on Apr 15, 2005, 11:17 PM from IP address 81.77.144.242
good day
can any one give me advice ,have just built a koi pond ,how long should i leave it before i put any koi into it ,some one has told me i can introduce a couple of large fish after a week ,to start the matureing of the filter ,by the way the filter is a nexus .thanks paul
Posted on Apr 12, 2005, 8:41 PM from IP address 82.36.107.159
Bob is right, Get the filter working right first, add some cheap gold fishes in to kick in some 'good bugs'in the filter before adding koi's into a new pond with new water.What i did was add someone else's good clean pond filter dirt into the new pond to kick start it.There is some shop counter stuff on the markets but you need to check up if they have been proven before buying.Get yourself a water testing kits to try out your new pond before adding koi's making sure they are living in good quality water, as bad water conditions will stress out the koi resulting in dead fishes.
read up on water quality here... http://home.mindspring.com/~koi1/pg1.htm
Posted on Apr 13, 2005, 10:47 PM from IP address 62.253.64.14
The problem with starting koi ponds with a few goldfish to kick start the filters is the possibility that when you do eventually add the Koi, they could be exposed to a pathogen introduced into the pond by the goldfish. Seeding the filters is Ok if it's from your own back yard but I would most certainly not consider using media from anybody elses pond for the same reason. The koi will be "used" to the pathogens at the dealers premises of course. Why take a risk like this when all that is needed is monitoring and control whilst the filters mature?
You can protect your Koi from ammonia by adding amolock or a similar ammonia binder. Nitrite won't shown up until the bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite have populated your filters. You can protect against Nitrite by adding salt to the pond at 0.1% per day for three days to reach 0.3% and by making partial water changes.
Posted on Apr 14, 2005, 1:45 AM from IP address 213.120.101.21
I added Biotool Filter Start to my filter, even though I kept it running during the build. The filter was down for a maximum of four days whilst it was reconnected to the new pond. I added three of my biggest fish immediately and the rest gradually over the following week. This was over two weeks ago, I am just starting to get a Nitrate reading of 0.3,(Tetra kit) which has held all week, plan to do a small water change this weekend, apart from that all other test reading are satisfactory.
Hope this helps
Shazz
Posted on Apr 14, 2005, 10:50 AM from IP address 80.176.91.232
hi i have just finished a new pond and i am using kaldness which isnt matured i have added four 16"koi to get it started , i have been doing 10% water changes via a purifier and i have had to adjust the kh and gh and all is fine now and all other tests are ok into my 5th week now water clarity is getting better and fish are happy although a long way to go for the filter to mature properly not over stocking is one of the most important rules
Posted on Apr 15, 2005, 11:05 PM from IP address 81.77.144.242
i have a couple of koi in my pond that are not behaving normally they are resting on the bottom of the pond with fins clamped as you would expect in cold ponds but a couple have rolled onto their sides when i have tried to net them they swim off normally but when they come to rest again they roll over . the chemical parameters of thepond are correct has anyone else expirenced this it was first noticed 8.4.05
Posted on Apr 10, 2005, 9:35 PM from IP address 195.93.21.38
You need to scope your fish quickly and look for parrasites. If a low temperature is not the cause, it may well signify that your fish are severly overrun with parrasites and are simply to weak to maintain position in the water. I have seen this happen before in spring and you may need to find the cause, cure it then treat the symptoms quickly if you are to avoid fish loss.
First: Scope the fish and find out if the problem is parrasitic.
Second: Check your water quality. You need 0 ammonia & Nitrite, little to no Nitrate, a stable PH, plenty of O2 a KH of at least 100ppm & a GH of at least 100ppm.
Third: Are your filters and pond clean? Many Parrasites hitch a ride on the Koi but actually consume nutrients from the water. Keeping fine particles and wastes to very low levels limits many pathogen populations. There should be no visible waste anywhere, no mulm or crud and no bad smells, even in the filters.
Forth: Treat the Koi with a suitable medication depending upon the parrasite/s identified.
Best of Luck.
Posted on Apr 11, 2005, 12:47 AM from IP address 213.120.101.21
i have a couple of koi in my pond that are not behaving normally they are resting on the bottom of the pond with fins clamped as you would expect in cold ponds but a couple have rolled onto their sides when i have tried to net them they swim off normally but when they come to rest again they roll over . the chemical parameters of thepond are correct has anyone else expirenced this it was first noticed 8.4.05
Hi Shazz.
If you look at the original post, Mike mentioned clamped fins and noticed the roll-over problem on 8-4-05. I assumed from the way the post was written that roll-over is a recent occurance and therefore probably not temperature related. I may be wrong but I gather we have all enjoyed a warm spell recently with the odd cold day last week. Can you confirm your pond temperature of late Mike?
I mentioned in my reply that the problem could only be either temperature related or parrasites. The reason I favour the parrasite theory is this: A koi on it's side, regardless of temperature or parrasite causes, is a weak stressed Koi. If the problem Mike is experiencing is parrasite related and not caused by cold waterr, they are in a very weak condition indeed and literally 14 days or less from death. If pond temperatures are 45oF or above, they need to be scoped as soon as possible for parrasitic infestation.
One other point, the odd Koi can suffer from swim bladder problems for sure but two koi in warming waters in early spring? Unlikely I would have thought unless somethinmg nasty is behind it. Mike already knows that Koi clamp their fins in cold weather and recognises that the koi are behaving abnormally. I assume that he has already ruled out low temperatures as a cause since he implies other Koi are behaving normally, i.e not clamping, not rolling and swimming around.
Posted on Apr 11, 2005, 9:31 PM from IP address 213.120.101.21
We know the importance of maintaining "Good Water" in our ponds. In good water, our koi thrive and the whole system hums along as if nature herself had designed it. But what is good water?
Outdoor Koi ponds are constantly exposed to all manner of pollutants which include fish waste, muscus, dead biofilm, dust, pollen, insects and a host of dissolved organic and inorganic compounds. As well as pollutants, the water contains bacteria, fungi, algae, minerals, heavy metals and an assortment of salts.
To produce good water, we need to ensure that pollutants are removed from the system by a combination of methods including mechanical and biological filteration as well as regular water changes. Inorganic compounds such as ammonia and nitrite are converted to less harmful compounds in the bio filters. The ever depleting mineral levels need to be replenished and visible waste, including fines, needs to be removed from the water column.
Dissolved organic compounds (docs) tend to float on the surface of the pond so by observing the surface movement we can determine quite a lot about the general quality of our water. Docs make the surface dense and if you look across it and it looks thick, has a lot of foam or seems to move as a bit like it has a skin, doc levels are too high. A healthy surface looks like polished glass with hundreds if not thousands of tiny ripples across it and no sign of any fatty substances or oily deposits. The whole surface of a healthy body of water is highly dynamic and the slightest breeze ripples the water.
For water to be considered good water, it has to be:-
1. Free of surface docs, dust, dirt, fish waste, sediment or mulm.
2. Free of ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Chlorine & Chloramine.
3. Have a stable PH within the range 7.2-9 (7.2-7.5 ideal)
4. Have a KH & GH of at least 3DH (6DH recommended for safety).
5. Free of heavy metals such as copper.
6. Low in levels of pathogenic organisms, have high levels of nitrifying bacteria and a healthy balance of minerals.
7. have an O2 level near saturation.
Any others you can think of?
Good water is not easy to achieve becuase we are incredibly dependant on both the design of the pond and filters as well as mother nature of course. For example, a pond without a surface skimmer will accumulate docs in a matter of days and the fish take in mouthfulls of whatever is on the surface when feeding to boot, Yuk!
A pond without a surface skimmer is unlikely to contain good water and encourages pathogoens. Similarly, if we dont have bottom drains or at the very least, a low presure pump which draws waste off the pond bottom, excessive levels of pollutants will accumulate and our water quality will suffer as a result.
The nitrification process softens water. Regular water changes maintain kh & gh levels which stabalises PH, reduces ambient pollution levels and consequently help control pathogoen populations too. Adding lots of air favours aerobic bacteria and that coupled with good water circulation in the pond prevents anaerobic populations from climbing.
To produce good water we need:
1. Plenty of circulation on an hour or two hour basis.
2. Plenty of oxygoen for fish, filters and heterotrophic populations.
3. A surface free from accumulations of docs, dirt and dust.
4. A mechanical filter designed to flush sediment to waste.
5. A healthy biological filter fed with clean water.
6. A UV light to help control algae.
Any others you can thing of?
Posted on Apr 14, 2005, 3:02 AM from IP address 213.120.101.21
I am brand new to koi & fish keeping and have just had a pond built for me which is 16' long x 8'-10' wide and 3'-4' deep. I have added at intervals over a period of 6 weeks approx 15 various koi 4"-5", 6 koi 8" plus, 1 Sanke? 12" and 1 Ogon? 14" as well as a few goldfish,sarassas,shubunkins and orfe. I have kept testing the water and all the levels are fine but I have another problem that I am getting conflicting advice about and hope that someone might be able to help me? It is to do with evaporation and water levels in the pond. I have a waterfall at the one end that the biofilter return pipe flows out of. My pond can drop as much as half an inch to an inch in 2 days and I have been told that it is due to the water evaporating from the waterfall and to switch my pump off overnight? I have also been told that to loose that much I must have a puncture in the pond liner!! I am at a loss what to believe and would welcome some advice from people with experience and have found your web-site very helpfull in other ways.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Regards
Jess Roberts
PS. I forgot to mention I am based in Birmingham, England.
Posted on Apr 8, 2005, 5:57 PM from IP address 82.46.200.21
You will have to thin out the number of Koi you have in your pond at some stage this year or increase the pond size. You could keep 9-11 Koi in your existing pond but no more. This is based on 250 gallons per fish and my conservative calculation of 2500 gallons.
Regarding evaporation, losing that much water is highly unlikely at this time of the year. It sounds more like a leak to me. I would expect 1-2" per week in the height of summer but nothing much at this time of the year.
Posted on Apr 8, 2005, 6:41 PM from IP address 213.120.101.21
Jess,
Turn waterfalls off. Then you will know if it is falls or pond. If it is the pond let the water drop until there is no longer a drop in level each day. Hopefully, it won't be in the bottom of pond.
Posted on Apr 11, 2005, 5:44 PM from IP address 4.5.144.241
Yes looks a very nice fish with good body shape and nice white ground. it'll probably look even nicer in the flesh. it's not too heavy on the sumi (black) which I like but then that's the important question... what do you think? you are the one that is paying out the money and lots of it and you are the one that has to look at it every day. I am no judge or dealer just a fellow hobbyist that likes to go to different dealers and view nice koi and there is a lot of difference in quality out there.
I would also suggest you visit it to see how it holds itself in the water and that there are no other problems with it that cannot be seen in the photo. Hope that if you do decide to take the plunge it gives you lots of pleasure as it glides effortlessly around your pond.
Posted on Apr 7, 2005, 9:44 AM from IP address 213.120.71.165
The above message was supposed to be in reply to Jeff posting about the shiro utsuri but my company logged me off and when i signed back on it got posted as a new message. technology huh!!
Posted on Apr 7, 2005, 9:48 AM from IP address 213.120.71.165
Jeff,
that's such a difficult question to answer honestly, if i had the money like that to spend on koi then i would probably have the sort of money to go on a buying trip to japan with some of the top importers and select a couple of quality fish with real potential and that's probably what i would do but after all that I dont so it's irrelevant.
Getting back to the fish in cardiff it has obviously taken your eye and you believe it would be a great addition to your pond (as long as your pond is established and your filters can cope with your current stocking levels and a new addition) there is no reason why it shouldn't be yours. as i said before i think you really need to go and see it person to fish to know whether it's the one for you.
Don't let the seller talk you into buying it if in doubt don't buy (you wouldn't buy a car with a broken screen or a wheel missing).
the other question i would ask is about quarantine facilities, do you have? can they be heated or will the fish go straight into your pond with a chance, however slim, of infecting or being infected by other koi? with any livestock there is a gamble.
Sorry to be so vague but as i said before you're the one that has to live with your decision one way or the other.
If you do go visit let me know what you think.
Regards,
Andy
Posted on Apr 8, 2005, 11:20 AM from IP address 213.120.71.165
Pumps and High Flows and some thoughts on Wet & Dry filters
by
Dear Eric,
My attention was drawn to the new phenomenon of Bakki Showers by your website. These seem to be extremely efficient derivatives of the Trickle Tower or Wet and Dry biological filter. The idea of a huge water/air interface makes a lot of sense. Indeed, conventional "under water" biological filtration seems to be working at a distinct disadvantage when compared to these filters as we all know that the bacteria are heavily aerobic. Additionaly, it appears that bacterial action breaks down even nitrates to gaseous end products like nitric oxide that are then able to escape into the atmosphere. In the usual biological filter these unstable gaseous nitrogen oxides are never able to escape and re-dissolve into the water, again entering the nitrite/nitrate pool.
Extravagant claims are being made for Bakki Showers. They appear to be so efficient that users are taking bottom drain water and pumping it straight to Bakki Showers, no settlement, no multiple filter stages and apparently no maintenance! Time will tell. Much is being made of the mystical properties of the "Bacteria House" biological media.
One wonders whether a well designed, open-to-the-air system, with more conventional media (read more affordable!)and the massively high flow rates that these devices are utilizing, would not be just as effective.
The Trickle Towers of tradition are devices that are readily acknowledged to remove ammonia, nitrite, and yes, nitrate. They usually get recommended when blanket weed becomes a problem. Nobody has ever suggested before that they can completely replace conventional biological filtration. But then, nobody has ever suggested using massively high flow rates through them. Indeed, it has often been held fundamental that the water must TRICKLE through them. (And thereby obviously limiting their capacity to deal with the entire metabolic demands of the pond.)
What is interesting is the differing emphasis in the two names. Bakki SHOWERS vs TRICKLE towers. Makes you think.... Maybe we have just never taken Trickle Towers to their full potential before. The Japanese seem to be way ahead here.
With all this in mind I started researching what it takes to turn your whole pond over in an hour or less. KoiCymru was my obvious starting point. This page covers advice on pumps: http://www.koicymru.co.uk/const13a.htm
However, I feel I have something to add.
When you are pumping huge volumes you would like to know that you are getting the maximum volume of water moved for the kilowatt-hour you are paying for (year in and year out!)
Eric's page suggests that (expensive)Sequence pumps are far more efficient than (less expensive)swimming pool pumps whose sole virtue is the ability to generate highish pressure to backwash sand filters. In actual fact swimming pool pumps develop very moderate pressures and could never be used for even, say, sprinkler irrigation that requires about 4bar (400KPa, 60psi, 40m of water) They have been design-optimised for the highest possible flow rates at only modest pressure. As I see it, their only limitation is that they very seldom come in a low wattage variation. If you only want 180watts of hi efficiency flow you must go with pumps like the Sequence.
However, if you have a large pond and are requiring the sort of flow rates discussed above I feel the swimming pool pump is then the cheaper-all-round option. Please bear in mind that if you are pumping more than 20'000l/hr thru 50mm piping and around a few bends you are going to need to generate a few metres of head.
My reasons for this assertion:
Sequence pump as shown on Eric's page:
Sequence Power Series, 1196watt motor, 4m head,will give you 25'000l/hr (http://www.azponds.com/new%20sequence.htm)
Speck swimming pool pump:
The "Porpoise" variant (which is the one illustrated on Eric's page), 1100watt motor, 6m head, will give you 28'000l/hr.
The "Hydrostar" variant, 1100watt motor, 4m head, will give you 32'000l/hr. (http://www.speck-pumps.co.za/PUMPS.HTM)
I have just purchased this last pump for the equivalent of less than 100UKpounds. I live in Sunny South Africa which is why this swimming pool pump is so inexpensive but I'm sure the relative costs in the UK will not invalidate my observations.
Sorry, that turned out a bit long winded.
Peter Winters.
Posted on Mar 20, 2004, 7:46 PM from IP address 168.209.97.34
Interesting reading and I too, have wondered if a Bakki arrangement may be better that conventional wet filters. As I understand the concept, the actual through rates on a Bakki are between 0.5 to 1 times the pond volume every hour.
The through rate is exactly the same as a wet filter and the only difference between them would be the volume of air added through the bakki. I guess the Bakki is really an advanced trickle filter which, contrary to popular belief also operate with high through rates perfectly efficiently. It must be remembered that the actual term trickle, refers to the path water takes over the media rather than implying that the throughput is very low.
My only concern with Bakki or indeed trickle filters as a stand alone filter is solid waste. It is far better to try and seperate solid waste from the system before hand. I don't like the idea of pumping raw pond water directly to a bakki filter since it would break up the solids into very fine particles which neither a Bakki or Trickle filter could cope with. Indeed, the success of any trickle based filter rests upon pumping clean water through the filter, not dirty water containing disolved waste.
A combination of settling chamber followed by a Bakki may be an ideal system though. Experimentation is the only way to find out of course.
Posted on Mar 22, 2004, 9:31 PM from IP address 213.122.22.243
Hi Peter,
As you say there are some exciting things happening now regarding filters. Look forward to your further comments on this subject.
Trickle filters seem to be coming back into popularity again and I know of several koi-keepers who have recently fitted them, or planning to do so. In all cases these are in addition to the normal filters.
I know of one person in the area who is rebuilding his pond and intends to fit Bakki Showers as the main filter system, so I hope to be able to report on that in the future.
We must not forget the Nexus and Kaldnes K1 media which is very popular in this area now, and throughout the UK.
The problem with all new systems is that it takes quite some time before they can be properly evaluated. It is only really in the second season that you can see how well they are working. It is very difficult for someone building a new pond now to know which way to go.
Regarding pumps I have always tried to mention basic facts, and leave people to talk to their local dealers or other koi-keepers in their area.
As far as this is concerned I am only talking about pumps that are sold in the UK as pumps for koi ponds. A good example of these pumps can be seen on the East Riding Koi website, www.koicarp.net, and in the pump section Trevor describes the various pumps very well.
The main concern of most koi-keepers, as you say, is to use a pump that will pump the required volume of water at the minimum cost for electricity.
Some people with a simple system can use a circulating type pump, but once you start adding things like heat exchangers or long runs of pipework then a swimming pool pump is needed.
There is a lot of concern from koi-keepers in the UK when swimming pool pumps are mentioned as they tend to associate them with high electricity bills.
I fully agree with you that for a large pond then the best answer is a swimming pool pump, and I have one on my own pond. This is where the confusion originally started as I was trying to say that when you have deep water returns then the swimming pool pump is the best solution rather than the circulating pump.
I have been to the Western Cape three times in the last six years as my sister and her husband live in Somerset West. I have visited quite a few koi ponds in the area and in all cases those members were using swimming pool pumps and their filtration systems were often sand filters with 6mm media instead of sand.
Eric
Posted on Mar 23, 2004, 7:27 AM from IP address 217.137.202.21
Thanks, you two, for your considered responses. I look forward to hearing whether these new developments are going to change the way koi ponds are done in the future. I am running my own modest experiments, which, as you say, will need a season or two to evaluate.
As we are about to go into our cold cycle I'm not sure why I'm bothering right now. I think the biggest drawback to these filters is that they are not only efficient gas exchangers but also heat exchangers. I have no desire to rapidly pull my pond down to ambient so probably wont run the "shower" till next spring. I'm sure the situation with your weather is even worse. Absolutely no point spending money on heating a pond if you are going run one of these filters out-of- doors. I did read one report from a user who had his "shower" indoors (heated interior) and noted that it actually raised the temperature of his pond. Maybe then useful as an alternative heat exchanger??!!
Small world. I live in SW too!
Posted on Mar 23, 2004, 9:18 PM from IP address 168.209.97.34
How did you make the roof on your tea house watertight? It seems as if there wasnt much of a slope for drainage. Didnt the shingle that went up slightly at the corner lead to puddling?
Posted on Apr 10, 2005, 1:13 PM from IP address 195.93.21.38
,