| Ze Zutara/Kataang/Maiko debate iz HERE!June 13 2009 at 2:47 PM | TigerintheShadows from IP address 198.49.31.149 |
| Before I even begin the pre-debate stuff, I'd like to say that I am not trying to start a shipping war, nor am I inviting n00bish Zutarians, Kataangers, or Maikoans to start posting crap here. So, if you're going to flame, knock yourself out. Go ahead and waste your time, because I'm going to ignore it anyway.
That being said, let the debate...BEGIN! |
| | Author | Reply | Anonymous
198.49.31.149 | Re: Ze Zutara/Kataang/Maiko debate iz HERE! | June 13 2009, 2:48 PM |
Zutara vs. Kataang and Maiko
Greetings, fellow Zutarians. I am well aware that its a rather debated *cough*-more like warred over-*cough* topic. But, as I have no wish to either enter or start a CAPS LOCK ZUTARA/KATAANG/MAIKO WAR, I decided to type up a rebuttal to both Kataangers and Maikoans. Its long; be warned!
And if it helps, Im not one of those Zutarians who goes around acting all like, zutara shud of wun it shud of ben in thu finale bryke sux katang must DIE! If it had been well-written into the finale, then I would have been very happy. But it wouldnt have been. And lets face itthere is the old saying, Youll be darned if you do and darned if you dont.
In other words, whatever Bryke decided to do, both types of shippers would be screaming like nutcases.
And I know some of these issues I argue are kind of stupid. When I first saw them, I needed to quickly find a desk to introduce my forehead to. If you dont have to when you see these for-Kataang-and-Maiko arguments, well, megacookie for you. |
| Anonymous
198.49.31.149 | PART I: PRE--DEBATING STUFF THAT IS IRRELEVANT TO A SPECIFIC SHIP | June 13 2009, 2:49 PM |
SECTION I: ALL THE FLAMING
Zutarians, Kataangers, Maikoans, Taangers, Sukkans, Harutariansessentially every massive shipper does their share of flaming. Personally, I have nothing against Kataangers or Maikoans. I believe that everyones entitled to their own opinion (theres something to be said for the First Amendment), and shipping opinionwhile Im not sure that its what Madison, Jefferson, and the other founding fathers had in mindis no different. Thats what I like about the Constitutionthere are no loopholes.
There are times when I dont mind debating. I do mind, however, when it gets out of hand and turns into an all-out war. I think we should try to discuss this like civilized human beings rather than with the obnoxious flaming. I mean, seriously, when youre a Kataanger and youre looking at a Zutara story or a Zutara video or Zutara fan art (I dont understand why, as a Kataanger, you would do that anyway), you shouldnt whine about, i h@t3 thiz stry u sck katang 4evr! or thiz art iz hribl zutara sux katang rox! Seriously, whats the point? If someone did that to one of your stories, youd flip out and start talking bad about the person, wouldnt you? Give CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM, not FLAMES. According to an awesome Zutarian on deviantART, sora-ko (on a Zutara fluff fanart):
Noooo...this is not about what pairing is or will become canon. Canon doesn't mean any ship is better than the other. Zutara is not canon as of now and probably never willthat doesn't mean it sucks or people aren't allowed to ship it.
No ship sucks (including Kataang and Maiko, my fellow Zutarians!) and we all are allowed to draw all the fanart we want for whatever *pairing*! |
| TigerintheShadows
198.49.31.149 | SECTION II: MATURITY LEVEL ON BOTH SIDES | June 13 2009, 2:51 PM |
Ive seen a lot of immature behavior regarding both the trailer to Book 3 (it contained Maiko and, I believe, hints to Kataang) and the series finale. And Ive got a lot to say about it.
To immature Zutarians: Just get over it. Really, in the grand scheme of things, Zutara was really only meant to be fanon. Whining about how horrible everything is and how it should have ended in Zutara shows that your pairing probably didnt deserve the win, and it gives Kataangers and Maikoans (as well as other people) a preconceived idea of how Zutarians act when they dont get their way, and the idea isnt good. As sora-ko put it, Just because something else may be canon, be it Kataang or Maiko, doesnt make it any less smexy and awesome.
To immature Kataangers and Maikoans: Whats with the malicious gloating? Its one thing to be rightfully happy that your ship won, but its quite another to go around being a troll and bashing Zutara and its fans. And then some of you call us sore losers when we try to provide a defense! Youre being sore winners, and were getting sick of it. Wed like to be happy for you (well, some of us would be), but its hard to be when you act likewell, jerks. |
| TigerintheShadows
198.49.31.149 | SECTION III: APPLYING TRAITS YOU THINK OF AS ONE SHIP TO ITS SHIPPERS | June 13 2009, 2:52 PM |
Stop. Stop, stop, stop, stop, STOP. What is wrong with this picture? Look, for example, a Kataanger who is putting up a strong argument for Kataang probably isnt childish, kiddie, immature, pedo, and the like, because a) if theyre putting up a strong argument for the ship, they probably arent immature and childish, and b) you dont even KNOW if theyre pedo or not. And I am a Zutarian. This does not make me Goth, dark, emo, and the like, because for one thing, Im generally an optimistic person, and for another thing (no offense to all of you Goths and emos and the like out there), being Goth or emo even for five seconds would freak me out. Are you getting this yet, boys and girls? People do not support ships because they share the same assumed traits. They support ships because they like them and see the potential chemistry. |
| TigerintheShadows
198.49.31.149 | PART II: AGAINST KATAANG | June 13 2009, 2:54 PM |
SECTION I: CLICHÉ ALL AROUND
It happens in every kids action show (and for the record, I dont think kids need to be getting this stuff. The show, while aimed at kids, has content definitely better suited for teens/ late tweens), and we all know exactly what it is. The Stu of a main hero always falls in love with the Sue of a main heroine. Its more cliché than the bad boy/good girl thing or the evil dude is ZOMGEBUL! thing. And quite frankly, its extremely annoying. I seriously think that an Emmy-nominated kids show thats managed to captivate 40-year-olds would be able to showcase better couplings than that. |
| TigerintheShadows
198.49.31.149 | SECTION II: LAST TIME I CHECKED, AANG'S TWELVE | June 13 2009, 2:55 PM |
And twelve is not old enough for romance. Period. Twelve-year-olds should be focused on their grades, not their cough-should be nonexistent-cough love lives. Aang needs to focus on his training, of course, but its the same thing. And theres the fact that Kataras older than he is. Zuko is a teenager. Aang is not. See the difference? I believe that if you are fourteen now, or have been fourteen, you would not have romantic interest in a twelve-year-old. You might, however, have had romantic interest in a sixteen year old (Zuko might even be fifteen-teetering-on-the-edge-of-sixteen). And to all guys reading this, when you were twelve, you were never really in love, were you? As many late teens will attest, both girls and guys may feel a strong attraction to someone at that age, but it isnt love. Sorry.
And for the record, you cant use the Aang is one-hundred-twelve excuse, because wouldnt that make him ninety-eight years too old for Katara? XD
A person on FFN made the statement that Zutarans also tend to say that no 14-year-old girl could be interested in a younger boy. I think this is coming from the perspective of people who are accustomed through the school system to being compartmentalized with many kids within a year of their own age. During the days of the one-room schoolhouse, I doubt such age differences mattered so much. In the Avatar world, this sort of separation by year doesn't happen. Besides, let's not forget that Aang was the first boy Katara had seen in two years who was over the age of approximately 7, excepting her brother. Compared to the little boys with which she was surrounded, Aang would have seemed almost like a man.
Um, youre forgetting one thing, honthe school system being compartmentalized with many kids within a year of their own age? Yes, I know youre talking grade-wise. But at a lot of middle schools (where a lot of Zutariansyes, THAT is how it is spelled! THERE IS AN I!went to school), there are kids in the age range of eleven to fourteen or fifteen. And a lot of times, fourteen year olds have to be within five feet of twelve year olds for a somewhat prolonged period of time that might actually involve talking to them. And none of the fourteen year olds want to make out with the twelve year olds.
And just because Aang was the first boy Katara had seen in two years who was over the age of approximately 7, excepting her brother doesnt mean that she has to love him. There are several boys that they met on their travelsmost notably Haru, Teo, Jet, and, of course, Zuzu. The person Katara falls in love with could be any one of them (except Jet, considering he died). It doesnt have to be Aang just because he was the first older boy she had seen in two years. And the almost like a man part? Watch the first episode again, sweetheart, and you will find that this is easily countered.
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| TigerintheShadows
198.49.31.149 | SECTION III: PRE-INDUSTRIAL SOCIETY...? | June 13 2009, 2:55 PM |
Um, no. I dont hate to be the bearer of bad tidings for you folks who have studied enough world history to bring this up, but this isnt a pre-industrial society. If it was, Zuko and either Mai or Ty Lee (or someone of the like) would have been married and would have had kids by the start of the show. Katara would have been set to be the bride in a most likely forced or arranged marriage. Sokka would be thinking of baby names. But that isnt the way it works in Avatar, is it? They have the time for the getting-together-girlfriend-boyfriend-lets-go-make-out-behind-the-barn deal, and they have options on who they would marry. Clearly, they have the same marriage ideas that we (and our governments) do today. So no, the pre-industrial society argument wont work for me. |
| TigerintheShadows
198.49.31.149 | SECTION IV: BUT IN ‘THE WESTERN AIR TEMPLE,’ KATARA MENTIONED AANG IN A THREAT TO ZUKO!" | June 13 2009, 2:58 PM |
Aw, shucks. Well, youve stumped me now. I wonder why she would mention Aang of all people! Surely you wouldnt have to watch the OPENING! Ehmagawsh, NOT THE OPENING! She only says that she believes he can SAVE the WORLD! -facepalm-
Zuko, for two *seasons*, was trying to captureand no doubt killthe Avatar. And in case you were too busy looking for Kataang moments to actually watch the show, I should tell you that the Avatar happens to be Aang. Zuko was trying to take out the Avatar, who was Kataras only hope of peace in the worldremember Crossroads of Destiny?
Youre a terrible person, you know that? Always following us, trying to capture the Avatar, trying to take away the worlds last hope for peace!
SO. Zuko shows up saying that hes had a magical transformation, and that hes GOOD now, after about a year of trying to capture the Avatar. It hasnt been Katara. It hasnt been Toph. It hasnt been Sokka or Suki or anyone else. It has always been the Avatar. And Katara is not a blonde. She knows this. What can you expect? Only this:
So let me tell you something right now. You make one step backward, one slip up, give me one reason to think you might hurt Aang, and you wont have to worry about your destiny any more, because Ill make sure your destiny ENDS. Right then and there. PERMANENTLY.
It wasnt because she was totally in love with Aang that Katara threatened Zuko. Aang is, in her eyes, a beacon of hope. She doesnt want the war to continue and possibly wipe out her people just like what happened to the Air Nomads, because shes seen what almost happened to the Northern Water Tribe, and shes heard what happened to the Waterbenders of the Southern. She wants the war to end, and she knows that Aang can play a huge part in this being done.
Keep in mind that this war was also a very personal fight for herCoD again, people.
You have no idea what this war has put me throughme personally! The Fire Nation took my mother away from me.
Aang is Kataras hope for peace. Should Zuko kill him, Katara would be devastated. She feels that Aang is the way to make ending the war happen, and ending the war is what she strives for, considering she kind of lost her mother because of it.
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| TigerintheShadows
198.49.31.149 | SECTION V: OEDIPUS COMPLEX...? | June 13 2009, 2:58 PM |
I once saw an argument take place between Kataangers and Zutarians about Zutara having a sort of Oedipus complex thing, as Katara had recently put her hair into a style not unlike that of Ursa. However, not only is Katara not Zukos mother (and simply having a hairstyle reminiscent to his mother does not make her so), but Katara has yet to treat Zuko likeor even very, very similar toa son (unlike a certain Airbender we know of). |
| TigerintheShadows
198.49.31.149 | SECTION VI: WHY EXACTLY IS AANG EVEN THERE? | June 13 2009, 2:59 PM |
I once saw someone on a forum make the statement that Kataang is the glue that holds the show together. Uh, yeah, fraid not, Son Kenshin, because, face facts, no one really has to care about the pairings. Theyre a side dish in the meal of Avatar. The glue that holds the show together is why Aang is even there in the first placeto save the world. Hes not there to make out with Katara (which, as a twelve-year-old, he shouldnt even think about doing, as I have already explained). The shows purpose is to show Aang going over all obstacles to save the world, his last obstacle being the Avatar State. And to master that, he must let Katara go. That is the only way he can master the Avatar Stateif he can let her go.
But she cant break poor widdle Aangys heart!
Um, yes, she can. Hes a human being, and therefore he has just as much a need to experience emotion as the rest of the planet. Heartbreak is a part of life. Just live with it. He has to learn the way things happen in the real world, people. You dont always get the person you like, even though it would be very nice if you did. Aangs got to grow up. I know he has matured quite a bit, but as I will explain later, you will never stop growing up. Not until you DIE. Face reality, folks, and youll probably be able to accept it easier.
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| Anonymous
198.49.31.149 | SECTION VII: DID AANG REALLY GROW UP ANY FURTHER? | June 13 2009, 3:00 PM |
Much of this is part of a Sozins Comet analysis by daveshan on deviantART. As he/she put it, He never had to lose anything as far as the series goes. He stuck to his morals and there was no consequence. He got the girl that he wanted, despite the fact that he never made any real moves at her or gave any overt signals [to her] that he liked her until the three times in the final 11 episodes.
The worst, the absolute worst part of all was that his deus ex machina AS path didn't make him find a new way. He didn't dig deep into the depths of his soul and pull out the power in the hardest way. It just accidentally happened. What does that teach kids? I'll tell you what it teaches kids:
For those of you who read the comic strip "Pearls Before Swine" on July 20, 2008, this will sound familiar.
The message is, luck and timing are much more important than personal effort.
Really, that's it. He just accidentally gets jabbed in the scar and he goes AS. No hard work, no sacrifice, just Ozai holding back a little on his fire and Aang goes AS.
Way to go, Mike and Bryan. Way to go. Just take the biggest journey in the show, the voyage of growing up, and excuse the main character from having any part of it.
Way to go.
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| Anonymous
198.49.31.149 | SECTION VIII: BUT IN 'THE HEADBAND"... | June 13 2009, 3:01 PM |
Yes, I am well aware of the events that occurred in The Headband, having seen it, like, five times. You have no reason to tell me. Yes, Katara was jealous of the attention that Aang was giving On Ji. But what was she jealous of? The fact that she finally realized her feelings for Aang? Or the fact that she was so used to getting all the attention from him? Aang has been practically worshipping Katara since day one, and she has taken this attention happily and without question. She was probably starting to think that he would always be there to give her that attention, even if she only saw them as just friends. In The Headband, she finally had to get a reality check that he might grow up, move away, and get married. Anyone could get jealous over this, particularly if this is your best friend were talking about.
GreenifyME, a member of the Zutarian Triumvirate of DOOM (according to her, trishna87, mizsweet, and Silvereyes-chan on deviantART), said it best on this subject when she stated, BUT if she had finally realized how much she loved him at that moment, you would think she would have, by the end of the ep if not a couple eps later, jumped up and took the initiative to tell him her feelings for him. You would think after realizing how easily he could be swept away from her, she would take immediate action to make him hers. But alas! At the end of the episode, Aang got the same old kiss on the cheek as always.
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| Anonymous
198.49.31.149 | SECTION IX: THE ENDING WAS RANDOM | June 13 2009, 3:02 PM |
Kataangers, Maikoans, and Zutarians alike can all agree on one thingthe Kataang kiss was seriously random. Some dialogue should at least have been added somewhere. It was basically Katara going, Oh, I havent shown much romantic feelings for you, like, ever, and Ive told you that Im really, really confused, which should probably take quite a while to work out, but now, like, four days later, Im just gonna make out with you! As blindhobo on FFN put it, She doesn't even say anything to him. Just comes and kisses him. The way the scene went looked as if the creators just whipped it up on the spur of the moment. I don't think they planned it. EmoxJerk on FFN said, The creators should've just spaced it out a bit more. Towards the last thirty minutes of the finale, I felt as if everything's just been thrown in all at the last minute. (Especially the question regarding Zuko's mother.)
Personally, I think that, as the pairing in question was touched on in The Ember Island Players, so it should have been resolved in said episode. You cant just say, Im sorry, but right now Im just a little confused, and then turn around only about a few days later (as a matter of fact, I wouldnt be surprised should it be found that Sozins Comet begins the next day or two days later) and then say, Im not confused anymore! Im madly in love with you! If youre confused, it takes time for you to be unconfused. I think that, if the show was going to end after Sozins Comet (am I the only one who thinks that the ENTIRE ending was horrible?), and it did, the final verdict should have been placed in The Ember Island Players. The way it was handled and the dialogue used were awful. Katara was either in love with Zuko, Aang, Haru, Jet (the creators were actually thinking of a Jetara ending, which they revealed in the commentary to The Ember Island Players) or no one. Then, in the end, comes the kiss scene.
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| Anonymous
198.49.31.149 | SECTION X: BUT WHAT ABOUT "DAY OF BLACK SUN?" | June 13 2009, 3:03 PM |
Yes, I know that Aang kissed her. Zutarians worldwide were probably screaming in fury at that point. But what about the fact that she never gave any evidence that she kissed him back? And the fact that nothing ever changed in The Western Air Temple or any other following episode until The Ember Island Players? She acted like he was still just a friend, and that hed never tried to make out with her in the first place. And, most likely, it was never an act.
Look, Katara! He kissed you! Smile in happiness that your dream has come true at last! But does she do that? Nope. Sorry. All she does is blink a few times and her expression is only one of discomfort (and a blush doesnt always mean anything romantic). But Katara! You should tell him you love him! Why do you look like youre unsure about this? This is what youve always wanted, isnt it?
Or is it?
She probably thought about getting together with Aang as a possibility in The Headband, as well as The Fortuneteller, but when it came down to it, she knew that the feelings werent reciprocated.
But this was the invasion of the Fire Nationa decisive battle! If it had been a different situation, she would have kissed him back just as passionately!
Oh, you mean like in Nightmares and Daydreams? That was a dream. This is reality. The parallels are there for a reason. The creators arent stupid. They put things in order for a purpose.
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| Anonymous
198.49.31.149 | SECTION XI: BUT IN "THE FORTUNETELLER..." | June 13 2009, 3:04 PM |
Yes, I am aware of the events of The Fortuneteller. There is no necessity to tell me about that either, considering that I have seen every episode at least once. However, I should tell you that Kataras fortune, love-interest-wise, didnt necessarily entail that it would be Aang who she married. Aunt Wu merely stated that she would marry a powerful bender. It did not say what bender, nor what type of element the person could bend or how many, nor when they could be considered as such. Zuko and Haru are just as powerful benders in their respective fields as Aang is, and thus should be considered candidates.
I have heard many Kataangers make the argument that Katara first realized she was in love with Aang at the moment in which Sokka remarked that Aang was a powerful bender. And yet did anything change after that? Were there any more mutual Kataang moments after this in Book One? Nope. |
| Anonymous
198.49.31.149 | SECTION XII: "AANG LOVES HER! SHE PITIES HIM!" | June 13 2009, 3:05 PM |
As I am all too well aware. However, that doesnt mean Katara has to love Aang romantically. She isnt one-dimensional; she has a mind of her own. How would you feel if you had to get married to someone who loved you, and yet the feelings werent mutual? Talk about unhappy.
And as for Katara pitying himyes, I am aware of that as well, having, like I said, seen every single episode at least once. But pity love is not the same as romantic love. Romantic love is wife/husband. Pity love, however, is mother/children (alongside familial love). Again, referring to the Oedipal complex issue. Her personality is, on many web sites, considered to be the mother of the group. This mothering was often directed towards Aang. Hence pity love (which, in reality, is no love at all).
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| Anonymous
198.49.31.149 | SECTION XIII: FINAL STATEMENT | June 13 2009, 3:06 PM |
Ive made my argument against Kataang. Personally, I think that Aangs too young for romance (as is any twelve-year-old), hes gotten treatment from Katara as being more of a son than a love interest (actually, like an eight-year-old son), and hes nagging and clingynot to bash Aang, but this can be seen in the following exchange from The Ember Island Players:
Aang: I thought we were gonna be together, but were not.
Katara: AangI dont know.
Aang: Why dont you know?
Katara: Because were in the middle of a war, and we have more important things to think about. This isnt the right time.
Aang: Well, when is the right time?
Katara: Aang, Im sorry, but right now, Im just a little confused.
{Aang kisses Katara, who recoils slightly.}
Katara: I just said I was confused!
This is similar to the whole Maiko thingyou cant just kiss your cares away. These things take time.
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| Anonymous
198.49.31.149 | PART III: AGAINST MAIKO | June 13 2009, 3:08 PM |
SECTION I: MAIKO? WHEN DID THIS START?
No, seriously. Id like to know. When did Zuko ever think to get together with Mai?
Well, isnt it obvious? They got together in between Crossroads of Destiny and The Awakening.
Well, what sense does that make? Yes, Im well aware that Mai had a crush on Zuko. But when did Zuko suddenly acknowledge his feelings for Mai? These things arent supposed to happen off-screen or in a magazine. Arent we supposed to sense a buildup to romance on both sides, rather than on one? If they were both truly in love, they would have been shown *gradually falling in love on-screen*. Maiko isnt gradual, and it didnt actually start on-screenmost likely, the creators came up with it either off the top of their heads, or to contradict Zutaraor both.
But they got together in the comic book! It showed a date and everything!
What kind of sense does that make? Again, going back to not supposed to happen off-screen or in a magazine. Not everybody gets Nick Magazine, so why show it in the magazine? Some people only started watching when the third season started, or even at the Countdown to the Comet. If the media is a comic book, put the beginning of a relationship in the comic book. If the media is a novel, put the beginning of a relationship in the novel. And if the media is a TV show, put the beginning of a relationship in the TV showall unless this relationship starts before the shows first episode, which Maiko does not.
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| Anonymous
198.49.31.149 | SECTION II: ZUKO HAS COME WAY TOO FAR | June 13 2009, 3:08 PM |
In my opinion, not only was Zuko never really an evil character, but hes gone through way too much developmentespecially in late Book 2, and all of Book 3. Going back to Maiespecially after she helps him with his robe? Yes, I realize the dialogue exchanged there, but Mai implied that she and Zuko had broken up, both in The Boiling Rock and *Sozins Comet*. Why, then, did she claim Zuko as her boyfriend when they never got back together? To get back together with Mai is like taking a complete step backward in his development.
Mai, however, is not a bad person. Shes just really indifferent to the world around her. Which is why shes not exactly the best match for Zuko. She cares about pretty much nothing except Zuko, and he cares about basically everything. Remember The Beach?
You have no passion for ANYTHING! Youre just a big blah!
If it were someone whos just as goth/emo as she is, then it might work. But an apathetic person mixed with a person who cares about just about everything just wont work.
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| Anonymous
198.49.31.149 | SECTION III: CAN'T MAI HAVE A REVELATION, TOO? | June 13 2009, 3:09 PM |
Not to be rude or offensive or anything, but Mais just not important enough to have her own revelation. It took Zuko about 2 1/2 seasons just to make the turnaround, and hes developed even further than what happened during Day of Black Sun. Mai, however, is a different story. She was only first mentionednever mind making an appearancein Book 2, and the only reason that she was a prominent character in Book 3 (alongside Ty Lee) was the fact that she was Zukos girlfriend.
Theres also the fact that the only reason she appeared on the show was because of the fact that she was trying to capture Zukothats right, she wanted to capture him! She was bored enough to do so, and the only time shes mentioned as having a crush on him before Book 3 (as a teenager) was in Return to Omashu, and the matter was never touched on again. Shes never really questioned right and wrongsimply going along with what Azula saysand shes really quite flippant about the war and doesnt really care about it or anything to do with it. Zuko, however, has always questioned right and wrong, and he does care about the war. Doesnt that indicate something about their romance being an epic FAIL?
Although, as I have already explained, Mai is not a bad person, simply an apathetic person. She is capable of doing good things, but only to save Zuko. I, too, remember The Boiling Rock, Part 2. But one good deed does not equal major turnaround revelation.
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| Anonymous
198.49.31.149 | SECTION IV: DOES ZUKO REALLY LOVE HER? | June 13 2009, 3:10 PM |
I dont think Zuko was, or ever will be, truly in love with Mai. Does he care about her? Yes. I think that, just like with almost everyone else on the planet, he wishes the very best for her. But love, I believe, is a very strong word, as is hate, and it doesnt apply to the Maiko relationship. Not from Zukos point of view. You cannot be in love with someone who is on such a different level, does not understand you, and is in love with the person that you used to be, with no knowledge of the person that you have become.
But Zuko left Mai a letter! That means he loves her, right?
Youve got to be kidding me. Zuko knows Mai well enough to know not only how much she feels about him, but how she would feel if he left without any explanation (although, as witnessed in The Boiling Rock: Part 2, Mai wasnt exactly thrilled about Zuko leaving her a letter, either). Hes not a completely heartless jerk; sheesh, give the poor dude a break.
You could, of course, consider this evidence that Zuko doesnt love Mai enough to extend that sort of courtesy. He had plenty of time to tell her what he was doinghe could have let her know. She ranted at him about not doing so, remember?
All I get is a letter? You couldve at least looked me in the eye when you ripped out my heart.
But he didnt know he was going to do it! And he had to talk to the Fire Lord!
True, but in the time it took him to write the letter to Mai, he could have just walked over to where she was and told her everything. The entire invasion hadnt even begun at the point in which he began to write that letterhe had plenty of time to tell Mai what he was doing. She lived, like, right across the street from him. He just needed to walk out and deliver the message to her. Its really not difficult to do, and really, it could have given him some exercise.
But the entire palace city had evacuated!
Then find Mai before they plan to evacuate and tell her. Im quite sure that Zuko was convinced that his decision was what he wanted to do by the end of the war meeting. He did not have to write that letter; Mai herself already confirmed that.
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| Anonymous
198.49.31.149 | PART V: WHAT'S MAI REALLY IN LOVE WITH? | June 13 2009, 3:12 PM |
I really dont think that Mai was, or ever will be, truly in love with Zukoat least, not the Zuko that the Gaang knows. Shes really more in love with the idea of Zuko than anything else. Zukos changed so much. Mai has no idea how much he has changed. Note the following quotes (The Beach and The Boiling Rock, respectively):
For so long I thought that if my dad accepted me, Id be happy. Im back home now, my dad talks to me. Ha! He even thinks Im a hero! I should be happy, right? But Im not! Im angrier than ever and I dont know why!
Because Im confusedbecause Im not sure I know the difference between right and wrong anymore.
Zuko
The truth is, I guess I dont know you.
Mai
Mais right in that respectshe doesnt know Zuko. Shes unaware of what hes gone through and what hes had to endure. Shes just had to obey everything her mother and father told her to do. Compared with what happened to Zuko, that sounds like a spring meadow with dancing bunnies. Zuko was banished from his home by *his own father*, who never really loved him or Azulato quote him in The Beach, when he flips out at Ty Lee:
*Bad skin*? Normal teenagers worry about bad skin. I dont have that luxury. My father decided to teach me a permanent lesson on my face!
All Mai really seems to love about Zuko is the child she had a crush on, the child who was happy being where he was. He was too young to know or care about the war, and ignorance was bliss, as it always is when you are that young. But that child was severely wounded when his motherone of the few people who actually cared about himleft him and his family, and that child later died, along with a third of the outer layer of skin cells on his face, in the Agni Kai arena. She assumes that that child is who he wants to be. Not so. After Zuko came back from the war meeting talking about how hed sat at his fathers right hand, Mai seems to think that was all he ever wanted.
Oh, Zuko, thats wonderful! You must be happy!
During the meeting, I was the perfect prince...the son my father wanted. But I wasnt me.
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| Anonymous
198.49.31.149 | SECTION VI: DOES MAI REALLY UNDERSTAND ZUKO? | June 13 2009, 3:13 PM |
To me and many other Zutarians, Mai represents the life Zuko used to have, the life he used to be happy with. She is, in a way, a symbol of the Fire Nation, the Nation he wanted to get away from. He knows, however, that even if she tried, she wouldnt ever understand him. To her credit, she has tried. But Zuko would pour his heart out to her; tell her about all the struggles he went through. And what would she do? Thats right; she would arrange a meeting between her tongue and his tonsils. You cant just kiss your worries away. And finally, in Nightmares and Daydreams, Zuko had had enough. He had put up with that for long enough. And when Mai turned his face toward hers, he did not reciprocate. He turned away. And it is blaringly obvious that this was the episode in which Zuko realized that this was not his place. It was not where he was supposed to be. He had tried pretending he was happy here, in this relationship, and with the people around him as well. But he knew it had to stop. His goal, starting right about the time of the war meeting, was to bring peace to a war-torn world. Mai, really, couldnt care less about it.
Katara, in the mean time, is a very sympathetic person. In *Sozins Comet*, Zuko confided in Katara when he was about to see his uncle again. She didnt hug him or kiss him or give him a neck rub. She sympathized with him and offered him wise words of comfortnot to mother him, but to calm him. When Mai decided to make out with Zuko towards the end of The Beach, that did not comfort him; it merely sustained him.
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| Anonymous
198.49.31.149 | SECTION VII: FINAL WORD | June 13 2009, 3:14 PM |
That really didnt take too long; there werent that many points to argue (there were probably more, but they were probably pretty weak; no offense to anybody). All Ill say is this--Maiko was random, side-built, and really, the idea just seems weird, considering that Mai is an apathetic emo, and Zuko is an emotional and passionate person who, contrary to popular belief, really isnt emo at all. Opposites do sometimes attract, but similarities hold things together. |
| Anonymous
198.49.31.149 | PART IV: FOR ZUTARA (at last!) | June 13 2009, 3:15 PM |
SECTION I: BUT BRYKE BASHED IT AND ZUTARIANS!
Yes, I know, and quite frankly I find that to be really rude and immature, considering that these are adults were talking about here. I understand that the Zutarians were being little trolls, begging for a new ending, but resorting to tasteless (I have seen it; these guys were jerks) Flash animation at a convention and calling all Zutarians stupid (without even realizing that these were just the immature bunch of the Loyal Order of Zutarians) was completely uncalled for. Resorting to name callingbe it over something like shipping or anything elseis immature and rude. If the creators had bashed Kataang and Maiko, you would most likely feel the same way about the issue. When I saw that animation on YouTube and heard them insult just about half their fanbase, I lost almost every ounce of respect that I had for them. Even Kataangers and Maikoans had an outcry over it. Thats how bad this stuff was.
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| Anonymous
198.49.31.149 | SECTION II: WHAT THEY CAN DO FOR EACH OTHER | June 13 2009, 3:16 PM |
Zuko and Katara can give many things to each other. Zuko can gain a strong, kind, and semi-wise companion who doesnt try to kiss his cares away. Katara is thoughtful and caring, and could quite easily handle Zuko and his fiery nature. Katara can gain a headstrong, fierce, fiery, and yet calm and peaceful companion who can finally say that he is at peace with himself after a long time of much inner turmoil. The two can match each other evenly (and if the two had a lovers spat, the resulting bending war would be seriously epic). XD
Theres also the fact that Aang always tries protecting Katara, particularly when she doesnt need it. Katara needs someone who can match and even control (to a certain extent) her fire, not to contain it or tame it to an extreme.
Many have already said that between Iroh and Mai, Zuko has already found all the love that he needs, and that hes already finished his development. This is laughable. You will NEVER stop growth and development, not until you die. And Iroh can only give Zuko fatherly love. This is a kids show (it should be more directed at late preteens and teens than anyone elseconsider the content as a whole), so Zuko wouldnt be able to marry his uncle (which I dont think youre allowed to do in most countries anyway XD). Everyone is entitled to romantic love; it is simply that that is not always what their job in life should be. And Ive already explained to you people about Mai. Dont make me do so again.
Katara has just about every trait Zuko values at this pointpassion, loyalty, love for her friends, kindness, and understanding, all of which he saw in her at the caves in Ba Sing Se, as well as on his, albeit short, adventures with the Gaang. And Katara knows that there is good in Zuko, and when she forgave him, she started to see more of that in him, as well as a beauty in Zuko that practically everyone already noticed.
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| Anonymous
198.49.31.149 | SECTION III: THE RELATIONSHIP ITSELF | June 13 2009, 3:18 PM |
If Katara and Zuko were only meant to be just friends, then why was their relationship the deciding factor in The Western Air Temple as to whether or not Zuko joined the Gaang? Why was it the most difficult for Katara to forgive him? After all, theres going to be a Toph and Zuko friendship, right? Sokka and Zuko? Aang and Zuko? Yet they all forgave him very quickly. And Aang, as well as the rest of them, was almost killed by Zuko on innumerable occasions, but that didnt stop them from forgiving Zuko, and it didnt stop Katara from showing Zuko kindness in the caves! So, why does it matter? Why is there such significance? Because Zukos actions in the cave left very deep wounds in Katara. If youre still a skeptic, watch The Western Air Temple again, because she said it herself.
You and I both know youve struggled with doing the right thing in the past.
She and Zuko have kept it a secret, what happened in the Crystal Catacombs. Neither of them ever told a soul, and yet they both remembered it very clearly. Katara mentioned it just there, and Zuko had a flashback scene in The Awakening.
Part of Kataras anger at Zuko was really her anger at herself. She had let her guard down to Zuko when he had done the same to her. She mentions having done this to Sokka in The Western Air Temple.
The thing is, it worked. I did feel sorry for him. I felt like he was really confused and hurt. But when the time came, he made his choice, and we paid the price. We *cant* trust him.
So what happens if she lets her guard down again? Watch The Western Air Temple again, because Iroh said it himself:
Destiny is a funny thing. You never know how things are going to work out. But, if you keep an open mind and an open heart, I promise that you will find your own destiny someday.
And right after this flashback scene in The Western Air Temple, Zukos face fills the screen, and then the proverbial camera turns to Katara standing in his doorway. He now has that open mind and heart, and we have been shown that his destiny is Katara. The only thing in his way is the fact that her mind and heart have been closed off to him. But she will open up to him again, and realize that her destiny is not a twelve-year-old who is too young to know what love is. It is Zuko. If this were not so, then Irohs words would not have been placed where they were.
That episodeand the ones that followed it, particularly The Southern Raiderswouldnt have stressed their relationship that much so that when she finally did forgive him, shed just say something along the lines of, Hooray! Ive forgiven Zuzu and now I can go make out with Aang!
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| Anonymous
198.49.31.149 | SECTION IV: FINAL WORD | June 13 2009, 3:18 PM |
Now it comes down to thiswhat can they really give each other? The answer is simplecompassion, understanding, hope, strength, forgiveness, inspiration, and courage. And they have the potential to love each otherlove that neither of them expected. And the reason why? Well, Iroh said so himself:
Destiny is a funny thing.
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| TigerintheShadows
198.49.31.149 | AAAUGH! NOOOOOOO! | June 13 2009, 3:37 PM |
I took a look at the finished version of my essay, and it SUCKS! CURSE YOU, WORD!
In other words, I'm ticked off because the grammar is screwed up. Visualize where you can. | |
| | Current Topic - Ze Zutara/Kataang/Maiko debate iz HERE! |
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