Well, here is a thought. If you can get time turners, couldn't Harry grab one, take the time back and then just think "nah..." when he is going to save Sirius? I know, lame idea but everything is possible...

Oh, how I love these pictures!!!

Well, if he thought "Nah..." when he goes to save Sirius, that would sort of emply you are saying he would go back in time to save him but then decides he doesn't want to save him.

Now if what you really meant today was that "Nah, you aren't going to die today", then that would ahve made sence to type it like that.

Personally, I think that he could have, but he probably was too stunned over the whole thing that he didn't even think of it. Now if you ask a few other people, I think it was Helen who put up this argument, but I can't remember for sure, that person said they don't think that time is actually able to change, even if you go back in time. She had a whole explanation behind it that had evidence to support it. I just don't like the idea personally, but it did have evidence. You will have to ask Helen about it...assuming it was Helen who said it.

--------
Helen Wulfgar's secret identity is... LORD VOLDEMORT
--------
AIM = CPGKeyca
Yahoo = Keyca02401
MSN = CPGKeyca@msn.com
--------
Xander: "Party in my eye socket and you're all invited!" ~Buffy The Vampire Slayer, final season~
--------

"Well, if there is no Pepsi, I'll settle for this..."
--------
"I ran over your dogma with my karma!" ~ My friend Nerak after thinking back at my driving record...go figure!
--------
@@
(-------)
< br>
+=---=+
~Cyber Froggy~
--------
View my web site at: http://www.keycasplace.tk

I think that Helen pointed out the problem with having used the idea of a time turner at all. One could say that ANYTHING you didn't like could potentially be reversed by using one. Of course, you have to go back in time, and not be seen by anyone, and somehow alter what has happened.

In the case of the Ministry battle, about the only thing that could have changed would be Harry going to the Ministry.

Oh well. Fair enough point. I will shut up about that now.

Ugh, I'm not going into that again...well, I would, but I don't have time and I have a good headache coming on...so I'll avoid it.

I was a bit pissed that JKR showed the time turners again in this book. That was definitely an artifact that JKR didn't plan out too well and should have been forgotten.
For one, to save Sirius, Harry would need to see himself...so how does it work when the time is up? Would they meld together if they were watching each other?
Two, the past has already happened. Would everyone in the world be changed by the altering event, would a new dimension come open to accompany Harry and the saved Sirius as opposed to the one and with the dead Sirius, would a more catastrophic event take place?

Messing with time is to mess with everyone's present and past...or because the world would keep changing, maybe you just create dimensions...or something else.

There's a longer and better explanation to this, but again, I'm not feeling well enough to get in it.

But the main point is that JKR should never have brought in such a device, thinking it simplistic. People who can think on a more practical level should know that was a royal mess that she created with such a thing.

"I never gave anyone Hell. I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell."
-Harry Truman

I agree, Helen. The time turner idea should be thrown out the window. The way JKR wrote about it in GoF is something that I can't even begin to comprehend. On one hand, Hermione could go classes that occurred at the same time. Then they go back to save Buckbeak and Sirius, but it gets complicated. When the dementors are attacking, Harry sees himself (from the future) creating a patronus to fend off the dementors. So he really didn't CHANGE that by going back. It just happened.

Ok, I just realized that I can't explain what I am thinking by typing it out. So I give up. Please don't try to make sense of my wandering message.

____________________________________________

To me, it's always a good idea to always carry two sacks of something when you walk around. That way, if anybody says, "Hey, can you give me a hand?," you can say, "Sorry, got these sacks." --Jack Handey

It was PoA, not GoF.

Then there is the point that the time-turner was used to save Sirius - who dies anyway two books later. Don't get me wrong! I love stories about time travel even though they never make sense. I'm just saying that if JKR put that confusing part in there to save a person, she should at least keep him alive or just leave it. And now were back to the Sirius-shouldn't-have-died-thing, so I'd better shut up for now.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Ron: You only like him because he's handsome.
Hermione: Excuse me! I don't like anyone just because he's handsome!
Ron: Cough Lockhart cough!
~Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire~

Personally, I think that if its your time to go its your time to go. So if you knew you were going to idk, get hit by a bus, you didn't go out that day then your toaster exploads and you die anyway.

But the whole time travel thing confuses me. Like if you went back in time and you saw yourself would you keep living in the past while living in the future? Does anyone understand that? Sorry I'll shut up now.

Is it the problem your alergic to a well familiar name?
-White Stripes

Hehehe! I remember when my toaster exploded! Both times! and two microwaves too! I whitnessed all their spectacular deaths! My family has the worst luck with kitchen appliances, but it's all worth it to see them explode! lol!

Anyways, I don't know how to explain this, but i'll try anyway. I think if Harry was going to go back in time to save sirius, he would have seen it already and sirius wouldn't be dead. (does this make sense?) Remember, Harry saw Future Harry do the partonus and save his own life. What would have happened if Future Harry hadn't done the patronus? We don't know because Harry DID do the patronus, so that's what happened. Likewise, if Harry was going to save Sirius with the time turner, Harry would have already seen Future Harry save him, or someone else would have seen him. But everyone saw Sirius fall behind the veil, so I don't think it's something that can be changed. (I sort of don't know where I'm going with this, but I hope it makes sense)

~Fleur

but don't you remember that the ministry banned time-turners? if you see yourself you could freak and accidentally kill your future self. they're impossible to get anyway. remember all the letters mcg had to send to the ministry had to get one for hermione's classes. plus they made her swear not to tell anybody. besides, nobody has used a time-turner to save people before, so why would harry's case be special?

even if harry did get a time turner and go back to before sirius died, he wunt b able to change wot happened becos the harry of the past wud make the same decision to go an help sirius out, unless harry approached the harry of the past and told him not 2 go 2 sirius. but harry said in buk 4 if he saw himself he'd think he woz mad or sum dark arts woz goin on an he mite atak himself

um, why did you bring up this thread... it's from ages ago...bah, whatever...

"There are two of them? Well Ali, there is one of me... deleeeted. Deleted?! WHAT?! What happened? Undeleted! Undeleted! I didn't mean to do that! Come back Ali! Come back Ali's sister! You mean too much to me!" Strong Bad

I'm of the belief that Harry wouldn't freak out now that he has his own experience with the T.T.. He would probably make sure to ask himself a question that only he would know the answer to, just to prevent it from being a dark arts trick.

But this is all under the horrid subject of the Time Turner. JKR should never have introduced it. And once she did, she should be able to use it again. Especially since there was a room right there with shelves full of them!



Dad-Eye,

even if harry did grab the time turner u cant change time. Buckbeak was never brought back to life. harry ron and hermoine heard hagrids sobs and the thud of the axe and assumed he died. realy the thud of the axe was Macnair hitting the fence in frusteration and Hagrids happy sobs Buckbeak wasnt decapitated.

A very long time ago, I made a couple of extreamly long posts regarding the time turner and about the past. I really don't want to make those long posts again, so I'll try to make this explanation as condensed as I possibly can (and this has already been brought up by some in this thread)...

If someone had gone back into time to save Sirus, he would NOT be dead right now. The same thing happened with Buckbeak and the time Sirius was saved from the dementor's kiss. It is like two times exist at once. Harry saved hisself from across the lake. He didn't know it when it happened but he realized it when he went back. It's just a thing that happend, it was inevitable that Harry would go to the other side of the lake and save his own life when he went back because it had already happend and nothing ANYBODY can do can change the past, time turner or no time turner. I think that the time turner is more or less just a way to relive the past, but not to change it.

Very confusing, I know, but if you think about it for lond enough, you will get what I'm talking about. Just don't give yourself a headache in the process.

yeah i agree. one thing ive wondered is if any1 else is using time turners. Fred and George may have used one but i bet others throughout the series have 2. also since Rookwood is an Unspeakable for the Dept. of Mysteries and i dont think he was arrested (he might have been i cant remember) maybe Voldy and Death Eaters will use Time turners! that would be freaky with multiple Voldys and if alot of them traveled back alot it would definately cause mayhem as time turners r so confusing and complex the ministry might go mad trying to capture them all!