I was thinking... what they were doing to Mrs Muggle was VERY similar to what James was doing to Snape. I really wonder if he might have been one of the ones in the masks? I know it didn't mention him being there, but the only one we did know of that got a mention was Lucius.
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That's a very interesting point. More foreshadowing by JKR. If Snape is bad, or, I guess, if he was trying to hang out with the death eaters in a "spy" capacity, it's possible he was in that crowd. The whole thing was very childish though.
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It may seem childish to us Mad eye but it's the death eaters way of fun. And my guess was it didn't seem to childish to the muggles that the death eaters were playing with.
Yes Snape could have been part of that crowd to use as proof that he hadn't changed if Voldemort came back but I don't think he was part of it. Because one has to ask to question....What the heck was Snape doing at the World Cup? LOL I can't think of Snape going ANYWHERE fun. So I can't think of Snape going anywhere near the world cup. So I don't think he was part of the crowd.
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that's pretty creepy. it kinda explains something that has been bothering me. i have been wondering why snape reacted to harry entering his memories so badly. i think he blew things way out of proportion.
maybe he thought harry would figure him out, or at least hermione would.
i haven't really thought things through on that one. just a thought.
*before you insult someone, walk a mile in their shoes. then, when you insult them, you will be a mile away and have their shoes.* LOL!
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Well... Snape likes watching Quidditch - he is very supportive of the Slytherin team. During one of their matches he was wearing green robes instead of the usual black ones, so that tells you something.
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He wasn't? There were a few there Volemort didn't name, I think there is a good chance Snape was one of them. I bet anything that moment was one of the other memories he was putting into the pensieve so that Harry wouldn't see it. He got extra mad at Harry when he relived that bit himself - perhaps he wasn't clear on who's memory it was at first; Harry's or his own.
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Wow that is a very good thought!
I wouldnt be surprised if snape was really a bad guy who turned good and than turned bad again (um, sorry if its confusing!)...
So while everyone thinks that since DD trusts Snape he ought to be good, he surprises everybody by being Voldy's spy!!! (Ok... I'm rambling now... Time to go to bed!!!!!!!)
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Bellatrix DEAD!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"They run off eckeltricity, do they?" said
Mr. Weasley knowledgeably. "Ah yes, I can
see the plugs. I collect plugs," he added to
Uncle Vernon."And batteries. Got a very
large collection of batteries. My wife
thinks I'm mad, but there you are."
-GoF-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quotes:
"It is our choices that make us who we are. Not our abilities."- Albus Dumbledore
"There is no excuse for looking down on someone, unless you're helping them up."- Rev. Jesse Jackson
“Whatever you are looking for is in you (the rest is still in the fridge)” Comix
"Just remember: If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off." Jewels of Wisdom
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Did you guys read my post? I have some theories about Snape from June right before the Ootp came out. It's called Where was Snape?New theory!!! Check it out.
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Well, I always thought that Snape was good and would be good in the end. But, the more evidence I see, the more I don't know what to beleive anymore. Although I just recently read the thread about Snape being a vampire, and that makes sence also. So, maybe the question isn't is Snape good, bad, human, or vampire, but the real question is, deep down, does Albus really truly trust Snape. Maybe he is letting Snape beleive he is being trusted. Maybe he is really on to Sirvious.
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Good question Chris..
I dont think we'll find out until book 7 though...
But if DD doesnt trust snape, why did he make him teach Harry Occlumency? I mean, that was a pretty important thing, and I dont think DD'd have let someone he doesnt trust teach it to Harry... we all saw how that turned out... sob!
D.B.N.G.T.M.
Sirius i luv you
Bellatrix DEAD!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"They run off eckeltricity, do they?" said
Mr. Weasley knowledgeably. "Ah yes, I can
see the plugs. I collect plugs," he added to
Uncle Vernon."And batteries. Got a very
large collection of batteries. My wife
thinks I'm mad, but there you are."
-GoF-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quotes:
"It is our choices that make us who we are. Not our abilities."- Albus Dumbledore
"There is no excuse for looking down on someone, unless you're helping them up."- Rev. Jesse Jackson
“Whatever you are looking for is in you (the rest is still in the fridge)” Comix
"Just remember: If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off." Jewels of Wisdom
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Maybe its like keeping your friends close but your enemies closer. Maybe Dumbledore can "trust" what Snape does so long as he keeps him close enough to read Snapes mind. Maybe DD knows the risk or that Snape is probably a double agent, but DD is in a position to give Snape false information to repeat to Voldy. I don't know.....
When I was writing ou the proofs for 'is Snape good' or 'is Snape evil', I'll admit that the list for 'Snape is evil' was more impressive.
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Thats a good question "WHY did DD get Snape to teach Occlumency?" I mean I know why DD didnt teach it (Harry/Voldy connection) but why didnt he get someone else to teach it? Why Snape?
Did he WANT Harry to get into Snapes mind and see his memories?
"Now Now Draco... Play nicely"
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
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If that were the case Dumbledore wouldn't have loaned Snape his pensieve. I think that Snape was probably his only choice, I think Legilmency is a very rare branch of magic, and it's use may not be legal. If that were the case, would McGonnagal know it? No. Flitwick? No. Hagrid? Not likely. Trelawney - does she even know how to use a wand?
Another thing - wonder about her. Dumbledore said he wasn't even planning on keeping divination as a class - but then he gave her the job. Now, Trelawney can't remember the prophesy, but Bertha Jorkins couldn't remember seeing Barty Crouch - Voldemort got it out of her through Legilmency. Is that why Dumblie keeps her at the school? Could Voldemort get the prophesy out of her again? Or... is Dumbledore expecting a third prophesy?
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Good, good points! I believe that DD keeps Tralawney to keep her safe from V and the death eaters. I'll bet he may expect another prophesy. That's a really good call. After all, she has made two now.
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I'm not so sure it is entirly leagal. I mean I am half asleep so I have the two mixed up. I think entering ones mind should be legally banned because that is private thoughts, unless they have concent then it should be leiniante towords it. Now defending ones mind from a mind attack should be completly leagal I think.
I do think not many know how to perform it, so I think Snape was the only option. I am starting to beleive Snape is evil though. Now personally, if Albus Dumbledore is really as powerful as everyone beleives, then maybe he is entering Snape's mind during the events of the lessons. Maybe Albus wants to know what goes on in Snape's mind. Maybe he figured he would be less likly to be caught that way. I mean if it were true, then if he entered Snape's mind and Snape detected him, he may think it is Harry progressing onwards in the experiment. What do you think about that? The whole point of the lesson may be what he told Harry in the first place, but also have a second deeper meaning, to gain information from Severious Snape reguarding Lord Voldemort and The Death Eaters.
Can Voldemort extract the prophecy from the mind of a seer that can't remember the prophecy ever taking place herself? That is a good thing to ponder about. I think if something that big were to be magically dug up from the treches of ones mind, it would have to be done by only the most powerful of people, like say Lord Voldemort? I think it is possible for him, but not many other people. Is Albus Dumbledore keeping Sybil safe at the castle just for the sole purpose of keeping her from Voldemort as apposed to having the class? I think so. I think given the oppertunity he would keep her there and get rid of that feild all together. They came right out and said it in book one, by Hagrid, that Hogwarts is the safest place to keep something. Even out beats Gringotts.
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Actually, Chris - its for that reason I dont believe that Snape was the one to hear part of the prophesy in the Pub. DD would NEVER let Snape come that close to Trelawney if it was him!
In OoTP doesnt DD say that he wasnt going to employ her as a teacher - not so much that he was going to get rid of the class - but after the prophesy he employed her....
I do believe it was just to keep her close by, knowing that once Voldy found out it was she who foretold the prophecy she would be a target...
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I am sure Legilmency is illegal, and I'm wondering if Occlumency is another reason for veritiserum to be under close watch, and inadmissable to court.
Dumbledore was thinking of dropping the Divination altogether - but went to the interview because she was the great granddaughter of the famous seer Cassandra Trelawney - who, I'm also wondering - could she have been around the same age as Phineas Nigellus (Sirius's great grandfather, most hated headmaster ever), and maybe made her own prophesy of the Voldemort?
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I never put that guy and her grandmother together before. Interesting...
Actually, Double D, I wasn't saying anything about Snape being the one to over hear it in the pub. Actually I never thought of that possibility at all until you mentioned it. I don't think it was him. I think if it was him who heard it, he would have easilly been able to find a way to finish hearing the prophecy.
Here is a counter argument on the "Is Snape bad or good argument". If you can use ligamancy (I misspelled it but don't feel like looking it up) to find the prophecy that is forgotten in the head of the seer who seen it, then if Snape was bad then he would have probably already pulled it off and Voldemort would know the full prophecy by now. Another thing pointing he must be good because of the fact Voldemort doesn't know the prophecy, I guess Snape never got it out of her head.
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Again, my question is who all knows the prophesy. Chris is right that if Snape is bad, AND he knows that Trelawney knows the prophesy, AND it could be retreived from her, Snape surely would have done so or tried to do so.
Back to my point...DD knows, and Harry knows. Trelawney doesn't remember. If Harry is near V again, V could read this in Harry's mind. If Harry meets V, its certainly going to be right in front in Harry's thoughts (easy to find, see, sense)
I wonder it DD will intensify the Occlumency lessons. It would seem MORE critiacl now than before.
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I can see them being so important now, that Dumbledore will risk it and teach it to Harry himself. because I'm sure Albus has a clue about the hateful relationship between the student and the teacher.
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Chris - never said you believed that Snape overheard the theory, that's just been a theory someone else has had before, i just added it in!
I think though that the Legilimency/Occlumency has opened up an avenue almost as big as the time turner to be honest. It just means that Voldy will have access to EVERYTHING Harry is thinking, which cannot be good for the Order/School/Students and it means that DD and Snape can read everyone's mind. Which is silly because it was introduced late in the series one would ask why it wasn't brought up earlier... it leaves so many holes as to why they never used it earlier - or if they did why it wasnt mentioned.
the other qn I have is - are you aware that someone is practicing Legilimency on you? Do you know that your mind is being read? I mean then someone could easily read Snape's mind without him being aware (thus he wouldnt use Occlumency to block it)....
"Now Now Draco... Play nicely"
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Another good point, Lilmiss. I always wonderewd if Snape knew that Harry invaded his (snapes) memory during the Occumency lesson when Harry saw the images from Snapes childhood.
Snape doesn't indicate that he was aware of this thought reading happening. Snape used the pensieve so he obviously knows it CAN happen that Harry may read his thoughts.
I'm going to vote that a person is not aware of having their thoughts read.
OH! OH! here's another proof. Harry was seeing or reading Voldemorts thoughts for some time before Voldy was aware of it. I don't know if this is the same thing though since Harry and Voldy were far from each other at the time. I am not sure if what Harry did was mind reading or something else.
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That's totally different though. Harry and Voldemort share a connection. I think that when someone's using Legilmency their victim knows, (they may not be aware of what it is that's going on though). Snape said that eye contact is crucial. Another thing I noticed - they only see the memories, but they do not hear them. Or that was the case when Harry saw Snape's. I'm thinking that perhaps if Snape were to use the Legilmency on Trelawney the prophesy wouldn't make any sense, but Voldemort would probably extract it in other ways, or he could be a more powerful Legilmens.
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Snape must have known that Harry invaded his mind remember that after Harry saw his memories Snape was mad and after a while Snape was able to kick Harry out of his mind. But it can go both way's as well. In other books (I'm to lazy to find exactly which one) Snape and Dumbledore give Harry the impersion that they can read minds. So Harry didn't know what they were seeing but he got some kind of feeling. But I think there are 2 way's to do it. One that the person doesn't know about it but it's you get a less better result and one where you go full power and have much more chance to get what you want but the person knows you're there. So it was in a way metioned before just not what it was called.
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If two wrongs don't make a right try three.
Don't ask me a stupid question I'll only give you a stupid answer.
If practice makes perfect but yet nothing is perfect why practice?
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