I know that this is a subject that hs been discussed but I can't help but feel that a new thread needed to be started. This may contain spoilers.



In english class today we were discussing how you would react if someone you didn't like or possibly hated saved your life. My friend behind me was sharing his thought and brought up this quote, "People wish the worst of their enemies-but never death". It got me thinking that the thing much worse than death that Dumbledore and Voldemort were discussing is hatred. Hatred can consume a person and change them. It can cause insanit and obsession. We've all seen Star Wars right? How much is it stressed that anger and hate lead to the dark side? If you really know Star Wars you'll know that the dark side was literally consuming the emperor (you could see that). Even when the emperor died he never died. Who does that sound like? The dark side kept the emperors spirit alive until he could get a new body which he eventually did I believe 2 difeerent times. Now if we look at Voldemort he has a some what similar story. We know he has a load of anger and hate. Maybe this anger and hate is much like it is in Star Wars and it can deform and consume the body. We know Voldemort is deformed but we don't know how he got that way. We know that the dark side kept the emperor alive just like the Ancient dark magic nd specially concocted potions kept Voldemorts less than shadowy figure alive as Voldemort told us at the end of book 4. And lastly they both got their body back. I'm sorry if I got a little off topic but it makes sense. Anger and hatred cause fear,uncertainty and suffering. I don't think that many people would like to live a life of anger and hatred instead of death. I think that Dumbledore may know this and that is why he is compssionate. Voldemort may not know this and that is why in bok 5 Dumbledore told Tom he still had much to learn. I tihnk that a big part of Voldemorts downfall though may come from his hatred which has made him blind.

Yeah, Dennis, I think this is worth another round of discussion.  I was re-reading that part of OotP myself just yesterday and was thinking of what is worse than death.  I think hatred could be one of those things.  Or perhaps, it is part of "the" thing

 

I was thinking of the quality of life.  Voldemort, in seeking immortality, sacrificed his ability to value life in others.  FOr purposes of discussion, by life, I don't mean the physical state of breathing in and out, etc.  I'm referring to the more cerebral state which is life.  Emotions, morals, that sort of thing.  To appreciate a thing, I think one must have a working knowledge of it.  In giving up his mortality in favor of an immortal existence, I think Voldemort left behind his understanding (if, indeed, he ever had one) of what it is to live.  If you don't understand what it is to live, of course you will fear the cessation of that.  Fear of death would be a natural consequence of having no understanding of life.  (Hmmmm... I think I just talked myself into the idea that Tom Riddle never understood what it is to live...)  So, that would mean that Voldemort is merely existing, not living at all.  It seems to me that this state would be worse than death. 

 

Okay, that rambled a bit, but sort through it and I think you'll find my point in the rubble.

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Have to self-promote just a touch...
http://www.geocities.com/labyrinthofthemindhp

Wouldn't that mean that the fate worse than death had already happened though? It was my understanding that this was only a possibility for the future, now I'm just plain confused.

(P.S. new sig! yay!)

   

Wow, and here I am singing my new "I hate you" song and eating some brain shaped/coloured jello (taste good/texture nuesiatng). But then again I think it was a clue when I dressed goth for costume day and everyone said something like "you look like Sara with a sock on her arm". I don't were make up like that! (Well that's really because my dad has told me many times that he wouldn't stand for it but I could get away with it on Halloween, I've never thought about haveing the chose to do that normally.) But I think the darkness has taken me.

~GwP~


I love Aragorn. I love Aragorn. I love Aragorn. I LOVE ARAGORN!!!

Yes Sandy, I get what you mean.  It's sort of similar to someone who is total;y driven to be successful in ,lets say, business.  They are so focused on a goal, but a goal without deep meaning.  It's hard to achieve satisfaction from a goal without true meaning.  Voldemort is trying ot achieve immortality, but why? 

Well, MadEye, my guess would be fear.  Remember Harry's talk with Nearly Headless Nick?  I know it wasn't entirely satisfying by way of explaining how one becomes a ghost, but really, the reason is all there.  Fear of going on beyond life led Nick to choose a shadow of the life he knew.  He was afraid to let go of this living world to move into whatever is beyond.

Well, I get the feeling something similar is going on with Tom Riddle.  Sure, there is the deep-seated hatred of muggles which he attributes to his lousy father and his Slytherin heritage, but isn't it possible that there is some fear there, too?  I mean, there were generations of Slytherin heirs who did not go out to destroy the world in their own image.  Is the horrific, driving need to conquer, to defeat everyone and everything a way of avoiding the possibility of rejection and failure?  Is the quest for immortality more than just a power trip?  Mightn't it be a twisted way of avoiding facing death?

I realize that this begins to make Voldemort sound like a sad little person, but really, isn't every schoolyard bully a sad little person?  This one just seems to have grown up to be evil incarnate. 

What I meant by this being a fate worse than death is that if Tom were to succeed and vanquish the "light" side of wizardry, what would he have?  Certainly no positive results will come of it.  To call it Nihilism is way to simplistic, but that thought did jump into my head.  Victory for Voldemort will be empty because to win he must destroy everything.  So, his victorious prize is - nothing.  Wouldn't that be a pretty miserable fate?

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Have to self-promote just a touch...
http://www.geocities.com/labyrinthofthemindhp

......Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.....

the only thing worse than death that i can think of is living forever, but nobody knowing that you exist. once again, this is one of those things that may not make sense to u dudes, but it does in my little bubble world.
my thinking is that you would have this kind of invisible wall around you. nobody could hear you, see you, or feel you. you have only yourself. that would be worse than death to me.

*before you insult someone, walk a mile in their shoes. that way, when you insult them, you will be a mile away and have their shoes.* LOL!