I was thinking this and how I can put it into words, here it goes:
Throughout the books we've seen that in the magical world the photographs move, but there are portraits that not only move - but they retain their memory and can speak. They show fear and loyalty. Other things that I really started thinking about:
Phineus Nigellus's portrait didn't WANT to help, the others threatened him - with their wands, so they can use magic on each other and can run from picture to picture. What if... those frames are a window into the realm of the dead of which those fallen behind the veil "live" an unlife? It sounds absurd here because I don't have the talent for bringing my thoughts into words but it makes a lot of sense - and JKR has hinted that Harry might have a way to communicate with Sirius. All the Headmasters have an oath or agreement that they must stay on and help the next Headmaster, so I'm guessing Dumbledore will have to be immortalized that way too. I can see this being considered a fate worse than death in a way, too - because you're living on in a way (just your soul I suppose?) But only watching the real life happenings through this window.
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Personally I don't think sir Cudugen could do much of anything. Now in the portrait world the difference between fictional characters and historical characters?
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Ooo! This is interesting. So, who creates the portraits? If they are windows to an undead life or to some sort of afterlife, however you choose to express it, does a portrait just appear upon the death of a person or does someone paint it? I wonder if they have a choice about being a moving portrait. I mean, I could see that everyone who becomes headmaster of Hogwarts would know that becoming a portrait when they die would be part of the deal. But, can a person, in general, choose whether or not to be a portrait? I could see that Sirius would go along with it in order to stay near Harry. But then, how is that different from being a ghost? Nearly Headless Nick said that ghosts are people afraid of moving on after death. He sounded as if he regretted that, by the way. I have often wondered if that was another example of a fate worse than death. After all, Nick said he was neither here nor there.
Okay, that rambled but it was an accurate representation of my musings...
I don't think that it is the same as being a ghost because I don't think that the pictures can retain information. They may hear something and express and opinion, but I believe that afterward they forget everything that happened after their death. Otherwise, why wouldn't the pictures that Harry had of his parents have spoken to him and had long conversations about everything and kept them updated on current events? He's obviously looked through them all many times.
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I'm allergic to cars. Everytime one hits me I break out in death.
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Interesting theory, but I disagree with "afterlife" part of it. when i was reading yuor message, i thought about the diary in book 2 I think of the connections between the portraits and the diary. As we know the diary had a 17 yr old verion of tom riddle on it, he was able to manipulate, teach(ginny spells or other things). And he was told of his own downfall. Now we all no voldemorte isn't dead, so it can't be an afterlife for teh diary thing.
Now im not saying this may be tru with the portraits. Obviously the portraits that harry has of his parents arn't of teh same meret of the profesor portraits(or they could talk).
SO what if it was an enhanced pensive thingy? The photograph or diary is a copy of that person's soul/mind/whatever, at the moment it is taken, and that soul/mind/whatever can continue with all that basic knowledge building more knowledge and events on it I duno if this is right, it prolly isn't but it may be a possibilty.
If so, who does it?
**something evil this way comes**
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I think we discussed this a bit several months ago.. I think it's a very interesting idea to speculate about. The portraits seem to be able to act and therefore they must be capable of independent thought. Phineas, as was mentioned, was not going to help and was then persuaded to. Also, when he hears of Sirius's death, he goes looking for him at Grimmauld Place. It would be great to understand how they are created, and for whom. Does Sirius have a portrait, Does Lily or James? Or what would be really good would be Harry's grandparents (IMO)
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well - I didn't say anything about an afterlife. THis would be a different realm altogether - like an Undead - or a different death dimension. And if we add the Veil to that it could open up a lot of oportunities (read the original post)
JKR said No Comment about Harry being able to communicate with Sirius some way, but she's confirmed that he's dead. Suppose this veil is similar to a Dementor that takes your soul and somehow immoralizes it as a Portrait - NOT a photograph... portrait. They have thoughts and as I said before - they can hurt each other and even use their wands on each other. I'm not saying that's how it's done, but it is foreshadowed that Dumbledore will have to have a Portrait of his own when his time as Headmaster is up - and so far we've yet to see a portrait of a living character, so my guess is that somehow they have to be dead for the portraits to work.
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It would be kinda weird talking to your own portrait though wouldnt it?
Like bumping into yourself after you'd used the time turner.... freaky
Its not a bad theory Narc, I think it could very well be something like a 'parallel dimension' in which the souls of the undead (sounds like I'm talking about zombies!) exist... certainly gives a new angle to delve into.
"Now Now Draco... Play nicely"
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
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Well I remember in one of the books Ron dripped tea onto Percy's picture of Penelope Clearwater and she was hiding her smudged nose, but they never say that it talked back. So there would need to be a distinction between photographs/pictures etc. That can interact with the outside world and those that can't, otherwise Harry would have been able to communicate w/ his parents through their pictures. Maybe you can only do that if you slipped through the veil or if someone creates a certain photograph of you. How do we know that all of the people in the pictures that interact are people who actually lived and not just a painting from someone's imagination? There are so many things to consider and I definetly wouldn't rule it out. I really like this theory. (it gives me hope for more Sirius!!) Then again JK said that Sirius HAD to die. I wonder how that could tie into it. Any ideas? Good thinking Narc this is really good.
"I love you, for sentimental reasons.
I hope you do believe me.
I give you my heart"
-Nat King Cole
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I also wanted to add that I'm sorry if I reiterated some of the things a few of you have already said. I'll admit I skimmed it because I wanted to respond, so I don't stake claim on anything. (I read after I posted that I said basically the same thing that Narc did about the distinction between interacting and non-interacting pictures)
"I love you, for sentimental reasons.
I hope you do believe me.
I give you my heart"
-Nat King Cole
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I think that's a fantastic idea, one of the best i've heard. It makes sense, and all the emphasis on the portraits over the whole course of all the novels could be setting up for something like this.
Definately something to ponder.
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I like the idea but I something about them living through or being undead in the pictures bugs me. I mean I can look at a picture of myself and still be here. I think it is like a mirror image of the person at the time that it is taken. I mean I can change but that picture of me will always be the same. But I do think there is difference between talking and not talking pictures. But I don't think it is the person in the picture. Maybe it is like how some people think you are stealling a bit of there soul when you take a picture of them. So your soul could be in a picture of you and it could talk and think and do everything you do except in the picture world and it will always be the same, it would be like a bit of you're soul being locked in time.
I don't think there is any connection between pictures and the veil though.
Speaking of pictures, you know in the first book how Harry gets a chocolate frog card of Dumbledore but then it goes away for a moment? Do you think it might have gone to "report" to the real Dumbledore? Just a thought.
Except WHY can some pictures talk and some can't!?!? it bugs me so bad. There is some sort of difference between the pictures of Lockhart, the Potters, Penelopy, or pictures in the Prophet that is different than the portraits all around the school. Kudos on uncovering this. It's quite a question to ponder. Of course the only one who could answer it would be J.K. beause the answer could be as different as a spell or a way of developing them.
~GwP~
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