Sorry, the What's Hot/What's Not post was from me. I forgot to sign in...
(please excuse any sexual references below)
From a Yahoo Group I belong to:
I have been reading this very incredible thread and wanted to throw my two cents in as well. I am 34 years old, but had a different experience growing up that I wanted to share. All through Junior High and High school, nudity was not the "big thing" that it now seems to be. A lot fo guys said that in the mid to late 80's they didn't see much nudity...but for me it was a different story. I grew up in a affluent suburb of Dallas Texas, called Richardson, and nudity at home was no big thing. My father slept in the nude and would now and then walk around nude as long as my sister wasn't home. I remember even taking a shower with him once when I was 9, as we had just got done moving and we were all hot and sweaty and in a major hurry to get on the road. It was really my first close up time seeing a grown man naked. There was nothing to be ashamed of my Dad said, we are both guys. He was ex Air Force and was always telling anyone who would sit still long enough to listen, about his old Barracks buddies and their adventures. I realized I was gay very early in life (11 years old) and right after that I started sleeping naked, at the same time I stopped wearing underwear. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE underwear, especially looking at and playing with men in their underwear, but I just don't prefer to wear it personally. I do wear a jock or thong to the gym when I work out but have no qualms about stripping out of them in front of other guys to shower.
Back to High school....I had the usual gym classes for the first year of High school, and then did the swimming and diving thing my junior and senior years. Most of the guys wore speedos and and only 2 guys wore shorts. We all stripped after gym class and swimming, and would take our time showering and relaxing. Nudity just wasn't an issue and was never made fun of, and even when someone got a semi or full on erection, everyone just chuckled and passed it off. There was this one guy, Brett, in my swimming and diving team who was a DEFINITE shower!! He was 17 years old and had 9 cut inches SOFT! We actually made him measure it soft and hard which he gladly did one day to get us to stop messing with him about it! (In my Senior yearbook, there is a picture of him standing next to one of the ladders to the diving board in just his speedo and his bulge is extremely evident! No one caught it until AFTER the yearbook came out and there was nothing they could do about it!) Anyways, Brett didn't grow much more in length but he did get pretty damn thick. He used to hang out in the showers the longest and was always the last one out. I got the job of helping the female coach in charge of us put up the weights and workout equipment after the class was over so I soon ended up showering with him and a few other guys. It turns out that a few of them were jerking off in the shower and they didn't give a damn about me being there and watching, and even got me to start joining them, but that is another story for later! The shower in the "natorium" (fancy name for pool in a building of it's own lol) was set up with 4 shower columns in one big room, 6 shower heads per column. So when you took a shower you were always seeing someone naked no matter which way you turned.
Even in regular gym class everyone was required to take a shower after class, and everyone got nude. There was this one guy named Kelley who had 3 brothers also attending the same school at the same time as him (two were twins) and they were all very well built and advanced for their age. Very hairy young men, good size cock and balls and oh Kelley was one of my major jerkoff fantasies after sharing the giant open showers. The regular gym class showers were normal showers with the showerheads built in along the walls with only a foot or two seperating them from the next. Someone was always pointing out who missed washing off the soap of a body part (usually the back) and the coach's shower, was right across from ours, so we would always see them stripping and showering. They weren't allowed to shower with us but right across from us was ok?? Go figure!
When i turned 11 I met Andy and he and I started hanging out and he introduced me to the wonders or being with another guy. Andy was a freak amongst men, over 10 cut thick inches, hairy and just plain amazing! I kept looking down at my tiny hairless dick wondering when it was going to get as big as his......BOY was I setting myself up for future disappointment lol It all started with Andy asking me if I ever jerked off....Didn't even know what that meant until he showed me. My father didn't believe in telling me ANYTHING about the birds and bees until I was 18! The first few times I did it, I had the orgasm which felt great but didn't ejaculate. That would come later.....um no pun intended! Anyways, Any also introduced me to blowjobs and he taught me to be VERY good at it and for that I will ALWAYS be gratefull to him! Hell I didn't know that it was hard to take that big of a dick, it all just seemed so natural for me. He and I played 4 - 5 times a week, in my room, at his house, at the creek, the lake, at school, everywhere we could. We would go down to the creek and strip off our clothes and leave them with our bikes and go swimming and hiking and never even thought about being caught. I still to this day go hiking naked when I get the chance. Andy always begged me to let him fuck me but there was NO way I was going to let him shove that monster up my ass!! He finally got mad at me and stopped hanging around for a few years, but we played around more after we turned 18. I had many other friends throughout High school that I used to jerk off with and even started having full on sex with. No one made any "Queer" or "Fag" jokes as the guys I usually messed around with were either football players or swim team members, and they tend to protect their "buddies" I got to experience being a top and a bottom then and it was pretty damn great!
Once I moved out on my own, I never wore clothes when I was at home, unless was having friends over and didn't want to offend them. Now, when I come home, the clothes are the first thing to come off and I stay naked for the rest of the time. I have 2 roommates and both know I sleep naked and they know if they come in my room I am going to be naked. They come in and hang out all the time and it doesn't bother them. I even have this rule, if any of our friends want to stay the night in my bed, they have to sleep nude as well.
You would be surprised how many of them actually do it!
I currently live in Nashville, TN. and always see str8 guys in short shorts, no shirt, speedo's or baggy pants with no boxers on underneath. Even though I am now smack dab in a notch in the "Bible Belt" it doesn't seem that most guys here give a damn and actually enjoy showing off what they have!
As for the size issue about being large and small, I reached 5 inches while in high school, and only average thickness. After realizing I would never be as big as Andy I learned HOW to use it along with everything else I had. I agree with Evan, and like him, I am a Licensed Massage Therapist and see a lot of men in the nude and see a LOT of erections. a good majority of my clients are str8 guys ranging from college age to business professionals, and the range in cock size it not as varied as I expected. The majority of they guys fall into the average category and the very few who are above average really talk about how they wish they weren't so damn big! 98% of my clients, both gay and str8 also prefer being totally nude during the massages and don't even want to be covered by the sheet or towel.
Yes guys are becoming more and more body conscious, due to the incessant advertising that practically states that if you don't have a washboard abdomen and are cut and rippling everywhere with 0% bodyfat, then you are worthless..... I wholeheartedly disagree with
I have seen both sides of that coin. I went from that ripped guy, 28" waist, 54" chest, massive legs, to being EXTREMELY overweight due to a major back injury from a very bad car accident. I gained over 200lbs after my accident and have lost 155 of it so far. I know I will never get back down to a 28" waist, (still have the broad chest and shoulders and the legs) but my outlook on life is this......I am the same man I was before the accident, I just look a bit different. I have grown over 2 inches in height (now 6' 4" and interestingly enough, gained an inch and a half on my dick AFTER the accident.....I was 21 at the time of the accident, so that was confusing to me as I thought I was done growing in the dick department. I gained a little in the thickness dept. as well but not much. So I now sit at a very comfortable 6.5" and am HAPPY with it!
I am and always will be fully comfortable being nude in front of other men and am not embarrassed that I don't have a huge swaying cock like Ken Ryker or Kevin Dean. Not gonna EVER happen so why waste my time worrying about it. I guess what I am trying to say is the average guy compares himself to the guys they see in pornos and in the pictures that hit their screen.....You just can't do this!! The reason they ARE in porn is because they DO have such big dicks! Enjoy what you have!! Share it with others, don't be afraid! If more guys start seeing other guys with normal sized dicks then maybe they wouldn't be so afraid to show theirs off or think that what they have is something to be embarrassed about! I have been with guys with very large dicks and been with guys with small to average sized dicks and let me share this with you......Most guys with huge dicks, can't do much with them!! I have been damned near fucked to death by guys who are average and smaller! Just be yourself and enjoy yourself and what you have to offer!!
Sorry guys I didn't mean to go on forever but just wanted to throw my bit in on this thread!
Thanks for reading this and feel free to e-mail me if ya want to talk more!
So, fellow freeballers, what do YOU think about this? What was it like when you were growing up? Was size important to you or to the guys around you?
How comfortable are you today with nudity? With being around other naked guys?
When I was growing up in the 1950s & 60s communal nudity was common and routine. I learn to swim with a dozen other naked boys at the local YMCA. Swimsuits were not even allowed in the Y pool. At summer camp no-one had swimsuits- we 'skinnydipped' in the lake. At school gym class everyone showered together. Communal showers and toilets were the norm in college and the military. Same-sex nudity was just taken for granted in those days.
So why has it become a taboo thing now? I think there are a number of reasons, but the 'gay rights' movement certainly is a major factor. When I was a kid homosexuality wasn't talked about in public. Most kids didn't even know such a thing existed. I had heard of it but thought it was extremely rare- something you only read about in psychology books.
When the gay-rights movement broke out in the 1970s people were shocked to learn how common homosexuality actually was. Today every kid in America knows about homosexuality so now being naked in front of other boys takes on sexual connotations that didn't exist thirty years ago.
(no login) 22.214.171.124
Casual Male nudity
October 13 2003, 8:24 PM
I think the gay movement is only part of the story. I think a lot of it is the fear that children will be molested. Tonight on the National News, they ran a story about cameras in the classrooms. And one father was really worried that a sex offender would break into the system and see his daughter in the classroom.
Parents fear sex and equate sex with nudity. Children are told to never show their "private parts" to anyone.
I also think the availabity of porn has something to do with young men being so shy. When my son was 27, I remember him and I talking about nudity and sex. .. He said he had a very small dick, and wouldn't want anyone to see it. I got him to measure it and tell me how small it was (because I was thinking "small dicks do NOT run in our family, so what's this?") anyway, he was way above average. But since he had only seen other men naked in porn, he thought he did not measure up.
From talking to young men (my nephew is 14) homosexuality isn't really a issue to them. They really don't care if gay boys or girls are around them. Gay kids are open and out at school now. But I do think that parents' fears and the availability of porn have caused many boys to fear that someone will see them naked and laugh at them, as they are not as buff and hung as the porn stars are.
As always, standard disclaimers apply: My experiences may not mirror yours, and the message above is my opinion and mine only.
(no login) 126.96.36.199
October 14 2003, 8:43 PM
I think a lot has to do with the media's portrayal of the human body as well. Everywhere you look, is skin, but it is shown in a lustful way. The male chest has been the latest sexual zone. Yes, the male torso, which easily shows what kind of shape the man is in, has been bare for quite some time, it has only been recently that men have been shown as sex symbols. The chest, being the highlight. In order to accenuate the chest, the pants are hung low.
Now, the gay rights movement literally 'forced' homosexuality onto people who were not really all that educated about it. Everyone is apprehensive about a new thing, and homosexuality was new in the eighties. People were afraid of it because they just saw the pictures of the sleazy protests and other undesirable elements. Not to mention all the rumors and stories thta teenagers can develop among themselves. Nowadays however it seems that through the media, such as shows like "queer eye" that the general public is getting educated that homosexuals are really cool people. They're not going to spread some contagious "gay" disease, and can really be great people.
Young people typically mirror their parents' orientations until they find out they need to make some changes and get brave enough to transition into their own feelings and orientations. This is where peer pressure can come in, also. Part of each person finding their "happy spot" in life.
"Queer Eye" has seemingly shown the world a different side of gay people. That, although these guys are somewhat stereotypical in their lines of work, allegedly, they have achieved that greatness early in life and are very happy with what they are doing. The fact that NO sexual "let's get in bed" or "go to the park" agenda is there is great too, as I suspect the general population only reads about gays when they do something allegedly "wrong". Yet t
There have been a few homophobic remarks made by those getting their makeovers, but the way things have been handled really makes them show up for what they are -- unfounded fears.
Queer Eye is great entertainment in addition to being very beneficial to all involved. I've even noticed some spinoffs that feature a mixed pair of (obviously) straight people, but it doesn't seem to have the same flair as QE plus being more calculated, serious, and only being clothes-related (more like stern parents than people helping people break out of their shells). Life should be FUN!
In Texas, the registered sex offenders' names and pictures are put in the paper or on the internet with their legal indiscretion listed. By far, most of the offenders are males with crimes against females. Even a couple are females with crimes against males. It's far more lopsided toward hetero than the alleged 90/10 straight/gay population mix too.
If you look at porn, most of the guys are younger, buff, tanned, and hung. BUT consider that even 7" on the screen can look short, so you reference off of other things like how cock length relates to the actor/model's hand width or where the end of the cock might be in relation to the guy's navel (when erect). Once you get those things figured out, and how you relate to them, then inches become somewhat insignificant ("It takes THREE hands to handle a whopper", LOL). And then there's the "shower" and "grower" deals too.
As the population ages, so do some of the porn stars. Gay porn now has the younger guy types, more middle aged guys, and some older types. Muscles and being in shape are usually the norm, especially with the younger males, but "performance" is still important so those older guys have to be still muscular and powerful and even have more body hair on them. Quite woofy, sometimes! Viagra use is kind of a moot point these days as all ages seem to use it, if the production company will let them.
Have you seen the "personal" adds that state "Height, weight, proportionate"? What about "Height, weight, cock length, proportionate" too? LOL
Key thing regarding size, well, really two. Equipment size usually doesn't matter unless there are two of them "there" at the same time for comparison (meaning size is relative) and "It's not the ocean that rocks the boat, it's the motion of the ocean . . ."
(no login) 188.8.131.52
October 13 2003, 12:22 PM
Like the poster of the previous message, I've never had any issues with being nude, and I count myself fortunate that I was able to do swimming lessons at the 'Y' when swim suits were forbidden in the pool. I still have a strong preference for being nude at the beach and consequently attend only at nude beaches. I currently have a camp in the nearby mountains with a good beach only a 100 metres away. Although I didn't realize that I was as gay as early as the poster - I denied the fact to myself, I also started sleeping nude and FBing at age 11. I was also casually nude at home, and also count myself lucky that even though they weren't nudists, my parents never made casual nudity at home an issue. They did make a rule though, perhaps a reasonable one: no nudity on the first floor when guests were present.
I don't know that homophobia is the reason for less male nudity today than when I was growing up. I do know that it's not as rampant in the society in which I live (BC, Canada), and casual male nudity seems not to be the issue that it is in many US jurisdictions. OTOH, it also doesn't seem to be an issue on the west coast of the US that I know best.
Bobby (no login) 184.108.40.206
October 13 2003, 1:25 PM
I have never seen my own parents naked to this day. But my brother and I were often naked around the house and our parents didn't mind at all. When I met Ronnie (we were both 9) his parents were casual nudists around their house. We swam together with his parents and sister naked in their backyard pool, and were usually naked around the house. The summer I was 10, my parents went away for 2 weeks to a conference. I stayed with Ronnie and his parents and was naked for almost the whole 2 weeks (except for Sunday when we went to church). As a result, I have never developed that fear of being naked that seems so prevalent among people my age and younger today. Bobby F really is the exception today, and that is so unfortunate that all bois are not comfortable being naked like he is.
Incidently I was on my hs swim team, and all practices were naked, by the choice of the bois on the team. Coach didn't like it but we told him we'd all quit the team if me made us swim in our team speedos. We did compete in speedos, though.
(no login) 220.127.116.11
Casual Male Nudity
October 13 2003, 7:53 PM
As followers of my previous postings can testify to, I have no problem walking around at home naked even when the parents are around. My buds are the same way when they are over for a swim or to lay out in the sun in our walled-in back yard. Well, the guys will wear a towel when they are inside the house, but once they are out by the pool, the towels immediately come off. My and my friends' nudity is really a non-issue with the parents but my naked season will be over soon when cooler weather sets in...well, except for when the buds and I go out for a hot tub every now and then. BTW, the parents NEVER walk around the house naked and they even use swim suits for swimming, sunning, or hot tubbing. You won't hear me complaining about that!!! Anyway, my dad raises a bigger fuss about me and the guys freeballing than he does about me being naked in the house or having the guys sleep over in my room for nights on end.
Terry-K (no login) 18.104.22.168
Casual male nudity
October 13 2003, 8:13 PM
I don't think you can judge this by the guys here. I know most kids in my gym class were very shy about undressing in gym. Many never got showers at all. And I never saw anybody swimming nude.
IDA-Paul (no login) 22.214.171.124
October 16 2003, 3:58 AM
When were you in school? This has been a recurring conversation in the 4 plus years I have been reading this board; those of us who were in high school in the 50's and 60's experienced much more nudity in the pools, locker rooms, etc., than those who went thru their teens a decade or two later.
Terry-K (no login) 126.96.36.199
October 17 2003, 1:54 AM
I grad in 1992.
IDA-Paul (no login) 188.8.131.52
Re: Re: When?
October 17 2003, 3:13 AM
Grad in 1992 explains it. You are a generation or two too young to have experienced what we are talking about. By the time you came along, everyone had become uptight about nudity, especially in the pools and locker rooms at schools. (At least in the USA, I can't speak for other countries.)
Swimmer (no login) 184.108.40.206
October 17 2003, 7:57 PM
When I was in high school in the 1970's we took swimming classes with the girls so we all wore swimsuits. We showered in our swim suits and were very careful changing into our clothes so as to remain modest. The ony naked person in the showers was the swim teacher and no-one had a problem with it. I believe at that time that if it had been an all boys swim class we would have at least showered naked and I think that most of us then would have been OK with it because we all knew each other.
I had heard that a few years earlier all of the boys had to shower after gym class but we never did (in the mid and late 70's). However, occasionally one of the guys would take a shower and no-one made a comment one way or the other. It was a time before the prudery and homophobia of the 80's and after the more liberal era of the 1960's and "innocence" of the 1950's.
Toby (no login) 220.127.116.11
Re: casual male nudity growing up?
October 14 2003, 4:01 AM
I grew up in the 1950s/early ’60s UK. From the age about 9 to 12 we had school swimming lessons. Once per week the class walked in a crocodile, in pairs, to the local municipal pool. Everyone wore swim suits in the water, but afterwards in the boys’ changing room (no cubicles) we immediately stripped off and dried ourselves while larking about, joking, or just chatting, totally naked and unselfconscious.
Likewise after gym class from age 11 to 16 it was compulsory to shower and we all went into a square shower-room with lots of shower heads in the ceiling – there was sometimes a bit of larking about but the gym teacher always seemed to be near enough to hear what was going on and his voice would be heard to put a stop to it.
The sheer joy of male communal nudity after swimming or gym, without anyone being shy or prudish, and no one thinking that it was in any way improper! And I still take any opportunity that I get to go to naked swim or nude beach.
Pyjamas were worn at night, but it was absolutely forbidden to keep any underwear on at the same time – regarded as very unhealthy to wear in bed anything we’d been wearing during the day. But our pjs were long-sleeved and long-legged, so in hot weather I was often allowed to put on clean underpants and singlet to wear in bed instead. Then at the age of 15 I thought, hey, why bother putting on anything at all? And I found it SO comfortable to sleep in the buff that I’ve been totally bare in bed ever since: summer, spring, autumn, AND winter!
That very same year at summer camp I experimented with no underwear during the day for the first time, and feeling the breeze was so fantastic that I wore nothing under my shorts for the whole two weeks and enjoyed that wonderful freedom. It seemed so natural to feel free rather than bunched up in underwear, and it was such an exhilarating experience, that I was hooked for life and from then onwards wore nothing under shorts and casual stuff like denim jeans, tracksuit bottoms, etc. It felt like a daring thing to do at the time, but much later (decades later!) I found out that lots of guys do it, and that it even has a name: “going commando” or “freeballing”. Then I became a 24/7 freeballer just a year ago!
I flew the nest at age 25, and immediately started to stay nude after getting out of bed in the mornings too, going around naked and not dressing until it’s time to open up the curtains. When male friends stay overnight I do always tell them that’s what I do, and it is great when they sometimes join in and do likewise so that we can enjoy the unique camaraderie of male communal nudity.
Very good post Toby. There is something satisfying about being nude with your friends, and I don't mean in a sexual way, but in a community way. It's hard to put in words- sort of a honesty, a lack of pretence. Like- this is who we are- accept us as we are- for we are all in this together.
It is sad that this seems to have been lost in recent years and nudity is now more associated with sex than camaraderie.
(no login) 18.104.22.168
October 15 2003, 11:59 PM
Very well said, Nat. I don't know if my relationship with my three buds (four if you count Damon who is absent away at college) is stronger because we are totally comfortable being naked together or not, and it's not like we are constantly having sex together (we do fool around on occassion, but not always)...sometimes we are naked just to be naked and to enjoy the back yard, the pool, the lake, the sunshine, or the moonlight.
Toby (no login) 22.214.171.124
A gift that we give to each other
October 16 2003, 11:25 AM
Yes! Had never really given it much thought, but you are right. It is about honesty, open-ness, being comfortable inside one’s skin, unpretentious, without prevarication or embarrassment.
It as a gift that we give to each other when friendship and mutual trust is such that we can simply enjoy being contently naked in each other’s company.
I grew up in the UK in the 70s and had a similar experience. We'd walk to municapal pool for swimming also. When we did p.e. or other sports we weren't supposed to wear underpants under our shorts. Everyone I knew wore pajamas to bed without underwear (except for one boy who slept nakid). Out of the 12 or so boys in my class (it was an all boys school) three including myself were part time freeballers at age 12.
Toby (no login) 126.96.36.199
October 19 2003, 8:01 AM
Yes, p.e. was totally fb for us too. In day clothes all of my contemporaries wore underpants beneath our trousers and vests (singlets) under our shirts too, although now I wish that I could have known it was possible to choose not to wear any u/w at all!
Attire for gym was strictly plimsolls with white shorts only, nothing underneath, and for field games plimsolls with black shorts plus a short-sleeved v-neck sports shirt, again nothing underneath.
For us it was perfectly normal, as we could understand that if we kept any u/w on it would become sweaty and then we'd be wearing that under our clothing. Far better, for sure, to take off absolutely everything before putting on p.e. kit, and then to shower before dressing again.
Northern free (no login) 188.8.131.52
60's baby boomer, where are you guys from ??Never saw nude Y swimming or swim team !
October 14 2003, 9:00 PM
Where are you guys from ? I never was aware that the Y allowed nude swimming ! Or that a high school swim team would swim naked or quit ! I definitely was born in the wrong part of the country (upper Midwest) .
Yes, the guys got naked in the locker room, as they still do in most locker rooms. Not a big deal.
When I was in jr high, one guy always got picked for towel duty and yukked it up at the expense of all the pre-pubescent boys in gym class. Today, I would assume he was a homosexual given the same circumstances now. He was athletic, built and handsome and no one messed with him and was on the wrestling team in high school. Hmmm.
There was a rumor about another guy, cross country runner, that liked to circle jerk with other guys on a huge stack of mats in the gym, or got caught doing so or something. He had a 'roaming hand' problem with other guys.
I grew up mostly in N.C. but I think this nudity was common everywhere back then. Families were larger and houses were smaller so kids were accustom to sharing bedrooms and baths and seeing each other nude. I saw my brother naked every night so seeing my buds at school or camp nude didn't seem that different. But I didn't see jerk-offs or things like that. Kids of my generation weren't so free about sex and this may have made the nudity then seem more innocent and less 'sexual' than it does today.
(no login) 184.108.40.206
October 14 2003, 11:24 PM
I must firstly apologise that my detailed knowledge of demography is more confined to Canada. Anyway, if you were born in the 60s, I'd consider that post-boomer - when the number of new borns started to decline. I think Ys started going co-ed by the mid-60s. Toronto's East End Y went 'til the early as a male and nude preserve before being demolished for a new co-ed Y. The rebellious swim team sounds interesting.
The Y I went to merged with the YWCA in a new building in 1971. I was no longer a member then but I understand they still had one night a week that was one-sex only and nude swimming was permitted on these nights. I moved to another town not long after this so I don't know how long this lasted but I doubt any Y has nude swimming now, which is a pity because nothing beats the sensation of gliding through the water wearing nothing but what God gave you!
(no login) 220.127.116.11
October 16 2003, 12:06 AM
Dude, I totally agree that "nothing beats the sensation of gliding through the water wearing nothing but what God gave you". Freakin' awesome!
I live in Michigan & during the 60's & early 70's you could swim naked at the Y. It was around the early 70's that this stopped as things were becoming co-ed. It was wonderful to be able to go workout in the gym and then go for a swim. Some of the guys in the gym would only wear jockstaps and occassionally a guy would come out of the lockerroom nude to tell a buddy something and it just was as normal as breathing. Nobody even batted an eye. The casualness of being nude was so freeing and to be able to swim nude was an ultimate high. I think there was more intimacy among men as well. They wasn't apprehension about being labeled. With clothes gone, you are being real. I really long for those days when people weren't concerned about putting a label on nudity to associate it with sex or being gay or being a pervert instead of just being a male among other males.
IDA-Paul (no login) 18.104.22.168
October 16 2003, 4:20 AM
I went to high school in southern Minnesota, graduating in 1958. Last I knew, Minesota was firmly planted in the Upper Midwest.
We were required to swim nude during the swimming sections of PE classes. We also had after-school-hours open swimming (not co-ed) -- both students and male faculty -- with not a swimming suit in sight. I have heard the head of the PE department belittliong the bashfull boys for wanting to cover themselves in the locker rooms -- while talking to the mother of a friend, and she agreed with him.
We didn't have a swimming team because the high school and its pool were built in 1921 -- before "regulation" competitive pool sizes were established, I guess.
When I was a senior, I was a sports reporter for the school newspaper. While attempting to find one of the coaches after classes one day, I walked into the boy's locker room to find a friend of mine casually walking across the room -- naked as the day he was born -- towards the wrestling practice room adjacent to the locker room, where the other wrestlers were in various stages of undress shile donning their practice uniforms. I have also seen in the football team members wandering about the locker rooms naked.
As this was very much "Upper Midwest" territory, I don't think goegraphy was the determining factor. As I mentioned in a brief post above, the time (meaning decade) your were in school is the larger factor in whether or not your had similar experiences.
I can also remember a conversation between my Dad and one of his friends -- both 40 years my senior -- in which the friend was belittling kids of the time (mid 50's) for needing swimming suits. "We never bothered with them when we were kids," he said. My Dad was born in 1901; his friend a year or two earlier.
IDA-Paul (no login) 22.214.171.124
Also . . .
October 16 2003, 4:27 AM
Sorry, I clicked the wrong button while editing the above post so it is full of typos, and I omitted something else I wanted to say.
I was never a member of a "Y" so I can't speak for them. Nor did we swim nude while at summer Boy Scout camp, although I have seen kids from other troops swimming nude on occcasion.
Anonymous (no login) 126.96.36.199
Re: Also . . .
October 17 2003, 3:27 AM
> Nor did we swim nude while at
> summer Boy Scout camp, although
> I have seen kids from other
> troops swimming nude on occcasion.
I took a troop to a scout camp site in Kent, south east England, late 1960s, which had an indoor pool, and at the leaders' briefing on arrival we were told that 7am to 8am each morning was males only for swimming without costumes.
In our troop each day a different patrol collected bread and milk from the providore and prepared breakfast, meaning that a quarter of the boys were on duty and couln't go swimming, but at least half of the troop were ready with their towels at 7am every morning and eager to get down to the pool. I always accompanied them as none of our other leaders wanted to, but it was a popular hour so there were always other campers with their leaders in the pool too.
So I and the lads who swam naked got a swim every day, and some days a second swim later when the whole troop and all our leaders would go for a dip - this time with cossies on.
Went back to the same site a number of years later and it had stopped.
IDA-Paul (no login) 188.8.131.52
Re: Re: Also . . .
October 17 2003, 1:12 PM
Your camp is enough to make an early riser out of me -- the quentisential "sack rat."
Too bad things changed, but that seems to be the norm in the world. Let's hope it's the pendulum swinging, only to swing back once again.
Toby (no login) 184.108.40.206
October 17 2003, 5:25 PM
Maybe, hopefully, the pendulum will swing back again some day.
In the meantime, I don't have the opportunity to go to nudist club swims often enough, but do belong to a fitness club where there is a pool. So I took an idea from this board and cut out the lining from my swimming shorts and - hey presto - fb swimming is the closest I can get to that feeling of freedom without actually being naked. A comfortable way to swim in places where you're not allowed to be nude.
Back in the mid-1980s I was an assistant scout master for my son's BS troop. This was a troubling time for anyone working with kids. A few notorious cases of child molestation and a TV movie combined to start a wave of paranoia about child molestation that swept the country and reach almost a witch-hunt frenzy.
Anyone who worked with kids had to be super careful. There were a number of directives from national BS HQ cautioning us to avoid all situations where there was even the possibility of impropriety- like never being alone with a kid, or touching them for any reason- and NO nudity!
There was good reason for such caution because a lot of people were be accused around the country. As it turn out most of these charges were totally unfounded but they still ruin innocent lives. The atmosphere was so intimidating that many good men left scouting and simular organizations rather than even risk this happening to them.
Many new laws were passed during this time- like requiring anyone who worked with kids to have background checks. Elementary schools began "good-touch- bad touch" indoctrination programs. I feel sure all this is a major reason today's kids are so phobic about being nude. It may even be why they hide their bodies under long baggy clothes.
IDA-Paul (no login) 220.127.116.11
October 17 2003, 11:26 PM
I agree with you, Nat, about the molestation hysteria. Many, many lives in Wenatchee, WA were destroyed by a wave of false child molestation charges. Even though the principle witness has recanted, some poeple are still battling in court to get their names cleared. The detective who investigated many of the charges still insists they were true.
I'm not so sure about the clothes, though. Fashion is very fickle, and the baggy clothes fad came in with the gangs and gang wannabes in the late 80's and early 90's, as I recall. And, speaking from personal experience, baggy clothes can help hide excess weight, a problem with me since childhood and now a national empidemic.
I won't argue your point about the clothes, Paul. I suspect self-consciousness about weight is a major factor here. I can't believe how many overweigh kids I see now. When I was a kid there might be one or two chubby kids in a class of 30. Now it seems like half the kids I see are overweight. Perhaps major reductions in the quality and quantity of PE over the years is one cause of this. From what I understand school PE classes are pretty punny compared to what we had.
briefs (no login) 18.104.22.168
Re: Chubby kids
October 18 2003, 1:44 PM
I agree. I read in the NY times a couple of years ago, boys have more anxiety about taking their shirts off these days than showing their wieners.
FBSoFla (no login) 22.214.171.124
October 19 2003, 2:00 PM
There are several reasons why Americans have gotten heavier, but there are 2 main ones.
1 - we have become more sedenatry. We use elevators instead of taking the stairs. We walk less, carry things less. Instead of carrying our suitcase, we now roll it, etc.
2 - the biggest reason is probably the "food pyramid" that started to be pusheshed onto americans in the 70s. Americans were told to stop eating fat and protien, and that's what happened. As the percent of carbohydrates in our diet increased, so have diabetes, heart disease, and obesity.
That's starting to turn around, as the scientific evidence of the dangers of low-fat/low-protien diets gets re-examined (it's actually been around since the 50s). But the farmers that have the largest subsidies also have the largest lobbies in washington.
(no login) 126.96.36.199
October 19 2003, 4:01 PM
I thought this post was about skinny guys. I, for one, am a tall, skinny guy. That's why my jeans fit so loosely on me -- well, that and I always buy baggy or loose-fit jeans. And, that's why it's sometimes so very obvious that I freeball.
(no login) 188.8.131.52
Re: Chubby kids
October 19 2003, 9:47 PM
There was a bit on one of the CBC's morning shows today about obese kids. As one might expect if only because it involves kids, it begins young, and it centres on lifestyle. Apparently North Americans stand out for keeping their kids in strollers or prams longer than other peoples. Those little kids that should be walking and running off the calories from the inappropriate foods they're fed, just keep putting on the pounds because they're wheeled everywhere they go. This continues into school age when they're increasingly driven to school.
I don't recall ever having a stroller. If I did, I graduated from it fairly young. I know I had a pram as an infant, but that was before I was able to walk. I had to walk to school. Once I got my first bike in elementary school, I never did less than 10 km on week days and 50 km on weekend days + all summer. I still do 30-80 km daily. I run about 10 km 2x/week. + lots o' other activities. My weight seems to vary a lot, but it's only between 135-145 W #s. At 60 years, my waist is still 30", 1" more than in hs.
FBSoFla (no login) 184.108.40.206
re: chubby kids
October 20 2003, 9:19 PM
I agree that kids are in their strollers for too long these days, when they should be walking.
Americans have also been encouraged to fatten their kids up on cereal. When bacon and eggs were the standard breakfast, we didn't have this problems. "Juice", which is today mostly high-fructose corn syrup, Frosted Flakes (mostly sugar), and other high-sugar foods have fattened up the kids.
Northern free (no login) 220.127.116.11
Upper Midwest, high school mid-70's
October 17 2003, 2:20 PM
Yes, the lockerroom was and still is, 'fair game' as being nude goes. I always assumed it was (and have never observed that it wasn't) because you got dressed, undressed, showered and used the restroom facilities there. I was shy in jr. high, but not anymore.
(no login) 18.104.22.168
Current nude swimming
October 16 2003, 8:37 AM
While opportunities for nude swimming are certainly less common than 30-40 years ago, it's still possible to swim nude here in Vancouver. Three clubs here rent community pool facilities for 3 Saturday evenings a month in the September-May period (when nude beaching can't normally be done at Wreck and other beaches that are clothing optional). There's also a beach near my summer camp in the Cascade Mountains that sees mostly nude use. I still never wear a swim suit.
This is good to know about Vancouver- but what about in the U.S.?
Does anyone know anywhere in the U.S. there is still nude swimming? (other than a nudist beach or resort)
Marseil (no login) 22.214.171.124
October 17 2003, 10:19 AM
I think one of the swimming pools in Paris has the same system as Vancouver: it is rent one evenening a week by a nudist club, and becomes nudist.
BTW, yesterday I had to wear a swimming suit: the sea was too rough to swim at my usual rocky beach. So I had to wear a swimming suit and swim elsewhere. Wearing a swimming suit did not happen to me for many months, and made me remember how uncomfortable it was.... Just after I went suntanning, nude as usual, on my usual beach....
(no login) 126.96.36.199
Nude Swimming in the U.S.
October 18 2003, 9:19 PM
Yes, there is still a place to swim nude in this country. In my family's backyard pool. tee-hee-hee. The city of Austin has a city park called Hippy Hollow, it's out on the lake on the northwest side of town and nude sunbathing and nude swimming are allowed there. It's a pretty cool place to go. My buds and I have a friend who allows us in (normailly, minors aren't allowed in without adults).
Northern free (no login) 188.8.131.52
October 14 2003, 9:04 PM
Rarely saw my dad naked, he had a beer belly, was rather crass, and was uncut, it wasn't pretty.
Mom got caught naked once in a while, but when we got to about 10 or 12 that was it.
I wore underwear to bed in college under my pjs because I was so embarassed to have a wet dream. It seems so archaic now.
For those of us lucky enough to have grown up in a rural environment in a large family, nudity and freeballing was common and accepted. It was common to sleep nude with your cousins and brothers. And, we always went skinny-dipping in the creeks and ponds.
Our nearest YMCA had two nights a week that was "mens swim night", and swimsuits were optional. Our church youth group (boys only) would regularly go in the winter. Of course us farmboys didn't own swimsuits, and would only take a towel. This was in West Virginia in the 1970's.
Casual male nudity is just part of the male bonding process. My male friends (straight and gay) and I, still go on nude camp-outs. It frees the spirit!
(no login) 184.108.40.206
October 17 2003, 8:37 PM
I had never even seen a naked boy until P.E. in junior high school in the mid-60s. Growing up in the country (Indiana) I had never seen a black kid either... was so curious that his palms and soles were pink, like mine.
Although when I was little little and had graduated from baths in the tub I would occasionally shower with my father, so I would learn how to take a shower. To a little kid he was big and hairy and huge. I have no real idea what it was like. But I do remember something male and bonding, guy time.
In high school in the late 60s we had one year of P.E. where we showered communally, like in junior high. No one thought anything about it, very innocent and carefree. Except the time I got a bit of a stiffy in the shower and the class clown/class jerk pointed it out and made fun of me; I was so embarassed. (Today I would have been proud of it.)
Had to take a couple P.E. classes in college, more communal showers, the early 70s. The swim class we wore black racing briefs. Boy, did I take slow showers...
Wish that things were that free again today. Guys are so afraid to be themselves.
WAB (no login) 220.127.116.11
Re: Growing up
October 21 2003, 8:15 AM
We had communal showers when I was in high school. Graduated in 1953 so was many years ago. The first time I showered I was afraid as it was something new. I was a late bloomer so felt lacking with no hair down there. The classes were separated as to year in HS but the shower was everyone at the same time. The second day was no problem and had enjoyed nude time ever since. I now attend the local Y. Sure wish nude swimming was allowed. It still amazes me how many men run around with a towel wrapped around them and sometimes even seeing someone showering in their trunks. I roam all over the locker room nude and do not get dressed until I have to. Nude is not rude in my book.
Terry-K (no login) 18.104.22.168
Kids are so shy now
October 22 2003, 12:46 AM
Kids are so shy now. Many won't take a shower at all in PE. And the school don't make them either. Last summer I saw kids at the pool locker room going into bathroom stalls to change clothes. An I saw one put his jeans on over a soaking wet bathing suit. Thats a good way to get a bad skin rash!
organman (no login) 22.214.171.124
October 29 2003, 12:38 PM
Growing up on the Texas coast in the 60's and early 70's, I saw lots of male nudity. I learned to swim at the Y in the nude, continued to swim that way there until I quit going sometime in high school, school lockerrooms were always full of nudity and communal showers which were required daily. My friends and cousins and I always went skinnydipping in creeks and ponds. We'd camp out in the woods behinds our houses, and usually spent time naked. When we went cmaping, my dad, uncles, cousins and I were always naked around each other rinsing off, etc. On church mission trips we'd always look for ponds, etc, where we guys could rinse off (we were usually in places without running water, etc), and we always did so naked, and would
usually stay naked for a while after we got out of the water to dry off in the sun. No one wever thought anything about it. It was not sexual, just natural. Of course, there would sometimes be kidding with each other, particularly if someone got hard, but it wasn't a big deal (no pun intended). It was great, and I really miss those days!
(no login) 126.96.36.199
July 12 2007, 4:59 PM
I'm wondering, since you mention somewhere that you lived in Orlando. FL, what the status is of requesting to be uncovered by the sheet during massage. It is just a whole lot more comfortable, but I don't want to give the massage therapist the wrong idea -- i.e., I really am there to get the therapeutic benefits of massage, it just seems stupid that I am naked at home most of the time and then get under a sheet.