I have a year 2k Challenger 2000 with a 240 EFI. It will be running fine and just stop dead. I have to crank it a couple of times before it catches and runs. It will then accelerate and run at full speed until it stops again. It takes about 10 minutes until the first stop and then the interval decreases to the point where it will stop at idle.
It stops as suddenly as if I had switched the key off or pulled the safety lanyard. But if I switch it off electrically it cranks instantly, which makes me think it might be a fuel problem rather than an electrical fault. It isnt normal for fuel problems to happen that instantly, but it is definitely starved of fuel when it stops on its own.
My mechanic and I took it out yesterday and he went through all of the normal troubleshooting after it stopped. He found that he could blow both ways through the one-way check valve that attaches to the fuel line at the fuel pump. That probably isnt the problem but he ordered a new one anyway since they are cheap. Otherwise he is mystified.
I replaced the fuel filter on the end of the fuel pickup and siphoned the bottom at the lowest point. I got a little gunk out but there was no water.
The only mechanic I can get to come to the house isnt really up to speed on the EFI, but he is consulting with several people who know the engine. Does anyone know of anything that could cause the indications I am getting?
What about a Lanyard Short or the Battery Switch? If the engine shuts off instantly, I would lean more toward an electrical open problem. It might not be out of the question for a fuse to be faulty. Although rare, a cracked fuse might work until it heats up. Another possibility is a loose battery connection. When the engine stops, does all the other electrical devices work exactly at that time? The next time it kills, turn on the blower or hit the horn to see if the 12 volt system is working.
I can't stress to you enough, this is a serious problem. You need the 240EFI to run for steering. Likewise, if you mess around and somehow fix it without really diagnoses it... it might reappear when you least expect it. Be careful!
This is what I would doo. Setup your jet in flush mode in your drive way. Run the water and start the engine. Very carefully, perform a wiggle test on all the wiring... one thing at a time. Be careful not to get shocked-grin. I would start with the battery, then the wire on the starter/ground, then the lanyard, then the neutral switch, then the wires inside the driver side dash etc... until you find the problem. I bet you can recreate the problem in this manner. Driving her on the water is unsafe as is and you really can't diagnose anything while cruising at 50mph anyway.
One other thing, make sure your oil tank caps are secure.
Thanks for the input. The mechanic bypassed both the ignition and emergency lanyard switch and it still stopped.
If I just pull the lanyard while at speed the boat stops (of course) and it is just as instant as when it shuts itself down. The difference is that it will crank instantly if it stops because of pulling the lanyard or shutting off the ignition. When it stops on its own it cranks and tries to run but sputters to a stop. Usually on the second crank it barely runs for a few seconds and then comes up to speed. The mechanic has come to the same conclusion as I have that it is starved of fuel when it shuts itself down.
He spent time checking all of the electrical connections while running as part of his normal trouble shooting, but it isnt likely to be electrical. Fuel problems usually manifest themselves as a gradual loss of power or a sputtering stop rather than the instant stop I get. The engine maintenance instructor at our Power Squadron had initially said it had to be electrical also, but after seeing the fuel starvation after it stops itself he now also agrees it has to be instant fuel starvation.
Oil cap it tight and both the main and aux tanks are full.
I thought you stated you could be cruising along at 40mph and the engine suddenly stops, nothing about a slowing down to a stop. In this reply, you mention the engine slowing to a stop and after you start back up, it sometimes speeds up and other times it slows to a stop.
You have two different problems. What doo your plugs look like? Is there any indication of water or hot operation? Does your 240EFI has a real alterator or a stator charging system?
There are a ton of things which can kill an engine. It doesn't sound like the mechanic is isolating the true problems. If the mechanic can recreate the kill condition... why can't he figure out what is going on? Some are better than others and it is possible this problem is new. I can imagine all kinds of issues... what if the computer believes the engine is always operating at the rev-limit and retards cyc#2 to such a degree to kill it? What about bad gas, causing the fuel injectors to foul. Who knows, this one is a tuffy.
The solutions are to isolate the problems separately. If you have the stator charging system as employed on the earlier 240EFI versions... it is likely your idle is too low. If the engine starts and the idle does not make it up above or near 1,000 RPMs, the stator charging system can not produce enough juice to fire the injectors properly. After the injectors foul a bit, it gets difficult to restart and reach the RPM break even point. This is one problem which is different than your "kill" problem. If your fuel pressure drops the injectors won't work. Likewise, if the pressure is too high. These items must be tested when the problem occurs. It isn't going to be easy to diagnose this one, but I believe it can be done. And, hurry up... Summer is here!!!
Where doo you live? I wish I could help more.
These problems you are having is one reason why perhaps an OptiMax would have it over the 240EFI because they is the ability diagnose problems...
I said that normally when you have a fuel starvation problem the boat doesnt stop instantly. Mine does stop instantly, which caused everyone here to assume an electrical fault.
But it doesnt start the same way after it stops on its own as it does if I turn the ignition off or pull the lanyard. If I break the ignition it restarts instantly. If it stops on its own it requires 2 or 3 cranks to start running, and takes a couple of seconds to get to idle once it catches. After that it accelerates normally and runs normally until it suddenly stops. The only thing that could explain the difference between starting after I turn it off myself and starting after it stops on its own is fuel IMO.
The mechanic cant duplicate the failure. We just run the boat until it suddenly stops. Once it stops the first time it is a fairly short interval before it stops again, so it is possible for him to try things to see if it helped. He said the plugs look OK. It idles at 1000 RPM and starts crisply except just after a failure.
I have also ruled out heat. The problem first started on a cool morning a couple of months ago. We removed the engine cover and left the hatch open, so it acted like a large air scoop. We were able to run about 5 minutes at 30MPH before it quit again. With that much cool air being circulated I dont think it is a heat problem. We were ignominiously hauled home by Tow Boat US.
I guess what I really need is to find something that would stop the fuel flow instantly and subsequently allow it to start and run again. I havent been on the board for a while, but last year it seems the shop manuals were available for some other models on CD but not the Challenger 2000 with the Mercury engine. Does anyone know whether that has changed?
The symptom might be enough for them to tell what is going on. Does your 240 have an alternator?
Can your mechanic measure the fuel pressure during the test? I would change the fuse to the fuel pump, easy and inexpensive.
When the engine kills, I bet the boat really jerks with the sudden lack of power and steering.
I'm in Wisconsin, so I wouldn't be able to help. You might want to check with the guys over on the www.jetboating.net board. They might be able to help you. However, I never heard of this problem before.
Good luck and I hope you find the problem(s) soon!!!
My gosh have you described my 2001 Seadoo Speedster problem to the finest detail. I just bought the boat and am heart sick about the problem. I live in Bradenton, Fl. and if you find the problem please let me know. I am also going to have this looked in to locally and if I find the cure I will likewise let you know. Please e-mail me so we can keep up.
Im a bit embarrassed about the fuel separator. 4 people looked at that engine including a mechanic and our Power Squadron engine maintenance instructor and none of us looked on the other side of the engine for it. The fuel system and hoses all seemed to be on the left side.
The mechanic never showed up with the little filter or check valve that screws into the primer pump. I tend to go with what the mechanic was told at the dealer that it is a check valve. It doesnt come apart to take a filter and doesnt appear to be something you replace often. If it is a check valve it could cause the sudden stops if it is freezing.
West Marine doesnt carry the separator so it will have to come from the dealer too. It had no water in it and I am guessing it couldnt have caused sudden stops without water. It surely needs changing but a cruddy filter isnt going to cause the boat to run like a top and then suddenly stop.
Unless the valve that attaches to the pump is bad Im afraid the engine is coming apart unless I can get a better idea from someone knowledgeable about that engine. Ill get back if I ever solve the problem.
We have had our SpeedSter for several years and the fuel separator looks like new. How in the world did your's get so rusty? It must be salt water or something. Looking at the rusty filter, it appears water was gushing out around the seal and caused it to rust. I think if you get all that cleaned up... your jet will run.
I live on salt water and the boat stays on a lift behind my house. There are other items with rust besides the separator and I doubt gasoline gushing out would do anything but retard the rust. There has never been a gasoline smell in the engine compartment and there was no water in the separator when I removed it. There is no way I can think of that it could cause such an instant shutdown. I will change it but I dont think it has anything to do with my specific problem. Maybe the check valve does though fingers crossed.
Hey Wayne, I dumped my seperator also and found no water. I forced air into the engine compartment on Saturdays run and it still shut off just like yours. I am not going to fool with it any longer. I am taking it in to my Seadoo dealer and they said they could diagnose and fix it relativly quickly. I will let you know what the deal was. E-mail me so I can call you.
Thanks for the offer. Ill do the same for you of course if I get it sorted out first. Let me know if you dont get the e-mail.
I ordered the service manual for my engine, but I doubt the 2002 is much different. I printed the 2002 version out for the mechanic in case he gets here before the correct manual comes in. It took over a half ream of paper printed on both sides Im guessing about 550 pages or so. I buy premium black pigmented ink by the pint and my HP black cartridges are a snap to refill or it would have cost more to print it than I am paying for the correct manual.
The service manual lists the little metal thing between the pickup pump and the fuel line as a filter. My mechanic thought it was a filter but was told that the parts catalog lists it as an anti-siphon valve. The service manual troubleshooting for the pickup pump has you troubleshoot with it disconnected from the main pump and says to check the anti-siphon valve, which means the valve has to be between the tank and the pickup pump.
There is also no mention of an inline fuel filter in the maintenance schedule. Small inline filters like that have elements that have to be changed regularly or they clog up. The metal unit between the fuel line and pickup pump doesnt come apart to take filters. Since it doesnt take replacement elements and isnt mentioned in the regular maintenance I think the parts catalog is correct and the service manual mislabeled.
There are several places in the fuel system troubleshooting where it mentions the anti-siphon valve as a potential problem, and at one point it even suggests you might have to replace it with a solenoid operated unit. It might be a reach, but I can see the valve sticking and instantly shutting the fuel off. The part came in yesterday so it is just a matter of swapping it out. Hopefully the mechanic will get here this week as he is the one who ordered the valve.
My guess is you probably have a faulty fuel pump relay. Yes, the pump has a fuse, but I think there is also an electronic relay controlling the fuel pump.....This, obviously, would make your problem both electically based AND fuel starvation based. Look to replace the relay... (unless it just happens to be loose or pulled away from the fuse panel!)
I brought the fuel filter/check valve to the mechanics attention and he consulted with the parts people. It is a fuel filter after all. The check valve looks similar. Cant imagine why it isnt in the normal maintenance or doesnt have an element you can change. Odd fuel filter.
The check valve goes between the reserve oil tank and the outlet hose at least I think that is what they identified.
The Gapman built a seadoo forum a while back. The guy is quite the web designer and he has a nack for illustrating interesting useful data. Over time... his site changed a great deal as he added content. I believe this link maybe dead or perhaps the page was relocated. Nevertheless, if you search around his site... you should be able to find the info you are looking for. I think he does a great job. We have contacted one another and I have recommended his site from time to time. I haven't looked at it lately. I've been too busy with work. As I remember he has an extensive list of recall info which will benefit all Seadoo jetboaters. Its worth it to check it out.
Sorry to say, I must be blind or someone stole the manual. Took the new toy out todat- 03 2000 Challenger and found that you don't need water, we can fly. 1.5m chop across our bay area and we skimmed most of the way and pounded a couple of times. as you say SpeedSter the steering is light. It was a research, check under hood day and all came up 100%. Found 2 cups of water in the engine bay after a 2 hour run- I suspect this is normal. Do you leave the vent fan running while you cruise?? in case of fumes.(I found none)
With biggee surf and only a few cups... your jet is tight-grin.
No, don't run the fan while cruising. Before starting, long NO-JetWild Zones (Slow No Wake), and as a quick test to determine if the battery is low. The fan will run considerably slower with a low battery.
The Service Manuals are available at your dealer. You will need to present your powerhead serial number to obtain the right manual. Manuals are created for blocks of serial numbers. If you happen to find one on the web... it is not likely it will be the right one for your jet.
I just popped onto this site and thought it was great. I just purchased a 2000 Challenger 1800 this past weekend. The seller had no Owners Manual or anything, and I'm new to Jetboats. I was onering if anyone knows how to get a manual so I can start my maintenance. Thanks for any help that you can give.
I just bought a 2000 C2K myself and am new to jetboating. However, I bought a "garage queen" which had only been used a few times and the owner had all the original manuals and papers from when he bought it new. The Owners Manuals are pretty helpful in a general info way, but I definitely need to get myself a Service Manual for more in-depth info regarding some simple maintenance items. I haven't found anyplace where you can find one online so far. There have been a couple of old posts suggesting there once was a link, but the word is that you need to order one from a dealer using your sngine serial number to ensure you get the correct manual. Probably sound advice since these engines tend to change from year-to-year.
Another poster provided the following info and it's GOLDEN!!! Check it out. The manual you want is the one titled "210-240 HP M2 Jet Drive.zip" in the second link below.
The above link has lots of good info, icluding shop manuals, owners manuals, parts catalog, video clips of other jetboaters and their towables...
Also try this link to a service manual...
If your boat is like mine, without the alternator, click and download the zip file titled "210-240 HP M2 Jet Drive.zip". (for earlier 2002 and late 2001 model engines. The boat model year and the engine year don't always match up).
1. How old is your battery
2. How many volts does your battery show on a multi meter.
3. Are your battery cables fastened to your battery as tight as possible. (this one caused me some grief. We had a slightly loose positive (red) cable, and it caiused intermittant problems. It also allowed an oxidation to occur in a very short time of only 4 weeks. After scrubbing off the oxidation/acid buid up, and retightening the cable to the post. We have solved our problems, of sometimes not starting).
4. Also look for any loose ground wires (on our boat there are 2 wires attached to the negative terminal).
5. If you have an older twin engine rotax boat, check your dess post. We had a 1998 sportster 1800 with twin engines, and a 1997 GTi seadoo jet ski that had a bad post. both were easy and inexpensive to replace. We did the work ourselves and that fixed the problem.
Good luck. I hope you solve your problems and get to get back on the water soon.
We go out 2 to 3 times a week here in Mesa, and we just love our doo.
West Marine nor Boat US stock it, so I ordered one. There wasnt any water in it so the only thing that could be a problem with it is the filter part. I can see that causing rough running or limiting power, but not an instant shutoff. It certainly needs changing, but I dont hold out high hopes for it having anything to do with the problem.
I stumbled across this posting this morning trying to find an answer for the
shutting off of my 1997 challenger 1800. I have the excact same problem. I put my boat in on the 17th of may 2004 and was running about 5 minutes and both engines (twin rotax) shut off. after putting it into neutral and trying to restart, the engines would not crank. i pulled of the lanyard cap and put it back and the 2 engins cranked up and started great. I thought it was a fluke, but 3 minutes later - the same thing happened. this occoured 6 times in about 10 minutes or so and every time i needed to pull off the lanyard cap to get the engines to crank. if the cap was not pulled the engines would not even crank. before the 6th time I tried to wiggle the cap, tap on it , i bangeg under it on the console put nothing changed untill the stall. on this engine setup with 4 carb's it does not seem likely all carb's would run out of fuel at the same time with no poor idle noticed. I know it is not the same as the merc's you folks have but i thought the info may help us both knowing the problem is happening on other boats!!!
Please let me know if you find out anything as I will do the same if I findout anything new!
I have a very similar problem with a 1996 Sea Ray with a Mercury SportJet 120. The boat will suddenly just cut out when crusing along. It usually takes a good 30 minutes of the boat running before it happens. It's not a sputtering shut off. It basically just cuts out. When you first try to restart, it won't turn over. Then after about 20-30 seconds, it will start up fine and run for a while until cutting out again. I thought it was the lanyard since it was previously a problem. I replaced it and still have the problem.
I had same problem with sportjet 120, 1996 model.It was the rev limiter. About $40.00. Also had some wire harness shorting between head and wire harness metal mount plate just below top of motor on the right side. I also cleaned the fuel filter.
I have a 96 with the 120 hp mercjet. It cuts out at full throttle. Some times it will run 40 other times it will run 30mph? I have no idea where the fuel filter is? NO knowledge of the rev limiter! Can someone please help me> Email me at email@example.com If anyone can help me! THanks
I also have a 1997 Challenger with the same problem. Twin Rotax. Engine runs for about 5 to 10 minutes the first time, then the gap decreases. My mechanic said I needed a new lanyard. Got it, didn't fix it. He checked all the grounding. No dice. And yes, the stereo and everything works when it dies. I suspected maybe a battery so I bought a new one. No joy. My engines start right back up after it cuts off. I also changed the fuses, no joy. Please help me if you find the problem, but don't go buying a new lanyard because it won't fix it.
Our primary fuel filter, the one before the fuel pump, was clogged with debris. We ran the fuel pump test off the schrader valve and our pressure ran down to 5 psi under hard acceleration and after we pulled the fuel system apart, we found lots of crud hiding in the filter and throughout the feed line. We emptied the filter and cleaned out the crud from the line and also cleaned the check valve (the brass fitting in the fuel line), lit off the engine and ran the test gauge under full acceleration with no problems at all. For those of you who don't know where the test port is, it's on the front, port side of the motor and it looks like the standard bike pump port on your bicycle tire, complete with cap. This is the schrader valve and it shows the fuel pressure after oil injection right before it hits the injectors. You can purchase a test gauge at your local auto parts store for around $40 and use the appropriate fittings to attach it and diagnose most fuel problems. Thanks for all your help and info and good luck to the rest of y'all.
Sorry I didnt get back sooner. Ive been in limbo for a month waiting for parts and the world famous brain surgeon I hired as a mechanic to fit me into his busy schedule. He did get it fixed though, and cheaply at that. Total Labor and parts were around $100. He told me from the gitgo that he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to EFI Merc engines.
We replaced the fuel filter that hooks to the electric fuel pump and is fed directly from the tank. The dealer had ordered a one-way check valve instead of the filter, telling my mechanic the unit he brought in was a check valve. He would have showed up with that if the people at jetboat.net hadnt pointed out the manual said it was a filter. After downloading the manual I confirmed that and the mechanic had them return the check valve and ordered the filter. The new filter looks nothing like the one that was there, but it works fine. It is a Mercury part.
The water separator had no water in it and the element was clean, but we replaced it anyway, again with a Mercury unit.
The filter on the vapor separator is a little more of a hassle to clean. The manual recommends cleaning in solvent and blowing it out with a blast of air which is what we did.
My guess is that it was the fuel filter. It seems odd that a fuel filter would cause it to stop instantly just as if the key had been turned off. And then run fine until it stopped again. But my problem was definitely fuel related because of the restart indications.
I hope it is sorted out. I ran it for about a half-hour today and it didnt stop.
Those intermittent problems are the worst to deal with. Remember, your mechanic has removed and moved other items including wiring etc... Just because it didn't kill in 1/2 hour doesn't mean it is fixed. My point is... don't jump out and plan an all day tour until you feel confident in your jet. Word to the wise...
On the other hand... like little Anican said, "It's Working!!! It's Working!!!" My favorite part of the show-grin.
I know of two filters on the 240EFI. There's the inline filter that screws into the engine and receives the hose from the tank. There's also the water separating filter that looks sort of like a car's oil filter. Your description doesn't sound like either of these. Could you give us a detailed explanation of where this filter is and how you accessed it?
I think it was the small filter on the port side between the tank and the fuel lift pump. It is labeled #3 in this diagram from the front of the engine. I have since learned that there is a fuel pressure sensor that shuts the engine down when the pressure drops below a certain point I think 5 psi. Thats why it was shutting down instantly rather than sputtering and losing power like most engines do when a filter is clogged.
Dont know whether the board supports HTML tags. If not, just copy/paste the URL to get the diagram.
This message has been edited by SpeedSter240EFI on Jun 10, 2005 9:06 AM
3 is the main fuel filter. I thought you changed that earlier and it didn't help. There might be a screen over the pickup in the tank. Perhaps your mechanic cleaned the pickup. It is possible for all kinds of dirt to be in a gas tank. Nevertheless, I hope she keeps running strong for you!!!
According to Mercury, that and the fuel/water separating filter are the only two in the fuel system. There's another place that the manual *describes* as a filter, but I haven't figured out how to get to it and the factory claims it doesn't need regular servicing. (We'll see.)
I replace both filters every fall as part of my winterizing process, along with front and rear lube, all six plugs, etc. Yes, I'm a detail freak and this is probably not necessary, but I'd rather have problems in my driveway on MY schedule than in the middle of the lake at the worst possible time.
When I first replaced this filter, the original on the engine was a narrow black unit. The replacement was twice the diameter, and unpainted silver, with an updated part number. Moreover, Mercury has issued a recall on the original filter and a factory authorized shop will replace it for free with the new one. (I didn't learn of this until after I had bought and installed it myself - my loss.) I wonder if the problem you're experiencing is part of the reason for the recall.
Glad you got it figured out, and glad that my standard winterizing process should prevent me from experiencing the same problem!
On my SS tango 240 efi, there is a large and very fine screen on the pickup of the high pressure fuel pump. You have to pull off the pump, 3 screws,and remove the fuel bowel, 9 more screws. However, after the other two filters clean the fuel, there isn't likely anything in this one. Mine had only a very very small amount of junk.
I haven't used our boat (Challenger X) for a while and haven't visited this forum, but the last time that we took our boat to Lake Powell, we had nothing but trouble. The boat would run great then stall like it was a fuel filter problem.
We cleaned and replaced the fuel filter and eventually had to change the fuel pump in the field. Nothing worked and we had to tow the boat to the nearest marina, hitch a ride down to Wahweap to get the truck and trailer then drive for 6.5 hours to get the boat (our "friend" didn't want to tow us to Wahweap).
After getting home, the Seadoo tech tracked it down to an electrical buss connection that was overfilled with waterproofing grease. When the connector was pushed together, the excess grease pushed some pins away from eachother instead of into contact. They cleaned out the excess grease and reconnected the wire harness and so far everything works well now. I swear it fooled all of us into thinking it was a fuel issue. It was intermittant because the gap was so small, it was influenced by temp of the engine, and vibration and engine speed or position of the engine during operation (engine torque). I hope this helps you!
I figured that we weren't the only ones that had this problem. I'll check back and see if this helped. Email me if you need more info.
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