as i like what i saw on first look, but how about a separate link to a dedicated cups pages? i appreciate that the fixtures link incorporates cup fixtures, but you would have to know the approximate date of the games to access the information, plus the cup trail is harder to follow this way....... otherwise, like many Unibond supporters, glad to see you got it off the ground......welldone.
That has to be one of the poorest, horribly designed websites around. I do hope no one got paid to make it and it certainly was not worth the wait.
Only people with a certain browser of a certain version using certain plugins and using a PC can use the site. I have a screen resolution of 1024 wide and I have to scroll left and right which is design suicide.
It really is pants. very poor and considering a website is your window to the world this shows the unibond in a very poor light.
WHAT A LOAD OF SH1TE. I AM USING NETSCAPE AND FOR SPEED AND SECURITY DO NOT USE JAVA. ALL I GET IS A BOX OF TEXT AND THE REST LOOKS LIKE ADVERTS. NO MENU AT ALL. I TAKE IT FROM OTHER REPLIES THAT IS BECAUSE YOU USE JAVA.
I've just tried to contact them via their contact page.
I got a Front Page extension not supported error. Which was nice.
Okay, not just problems, but solutions as well - I'm trying to be constructive (I had to read the source to get to the other pages).
General Design - make each of the pages should be the same width - use a left aligned 800 wide table and design the site within it.
Hover Buttons - use image transition instead - it's more cross browser. Alternatively, use static links. OR, if you MUST use these hover buttons - provide text links to the pages as well.
Results page - DO IT IN REVERSE CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER! - After seeing the oldest results once, why would I want to see them again?
Have separate pages for first and premier divisions and each of the cup results.
Fixtures Page - Looks awful - pointless layout - needs to be a list, or a calendar.
Club Details - squad lists? Obviously not a problem if they're not there, but it would be nice to see them; plus, transfers in and out of clubs. Also possible additions: caution details and other stats on each fo the club pages, and at least a results break down. The data on these must be present because of the CLUB OF THE MONTH pages.
Calendar is a good way of accessing old results and news. However, it could do with being split into News and Results.
Lain I strongly disagree. No website means no website. A website as poor as that one makes the unibond league and unibond company look very poor.
Make no mistake is is very bad. its the sort of website proffesionals make to show off everything that you could do wrong. I couldnt begin to list the faults. In a nutshell only people with the latest software and hardware can use the website and even then you have to setup yopr computer the same as the authors to view properly..
Everyone else cant view it or cant view it properly..
No website leaves things to the imagination.. a website this poor makes the unibond look bad...
Ho and yes I could do better in a day than this effort that took how long?
Time to resurrect www.wacker.clara.net/unibond ? Which is what I was working on two years ago, but stopped when the Unibond announced plans for their own site...
whats the matter with you all, its a first effort.
sure there's bound to be things that are wrong with it, but think yourselves lucky you have something at last.
i can't believe the negative vibes.
you have all the scores, scrores, attendances and news on there. what more do you want?
Did anyone read the bit about
"These web pages are the first in a multi phased project to make the Leagues Official site the centre for all the latest news, club information and statistics. "
Give it time. and give thanks not moaning and whinging.
I have to say my shock and horro on seeing the much awaited site got the better of me. Lain has the rght attitude.. lets try and be constructive..
>I've just tried to contact them via their contact page.
Yes I tried to do the decent thing and contact them myself.. Took time to make a constructive well though out response only to get the same errors.. another nail
>trying to be constructive (I had to read the source
Ok
>General Design - make each of the pages should be the >same width - use a left aligned 800 wide table and
Wrong! What about smaller resolutions. Web TV palm and other hardware that connect to the internet? Flexible design.. dont hardcode to 800.. use percentages.
>Hover Buttons - use image transition instead - it's
The biggest mistake in any webdesign is to use none standard tcnology for crucial elements.. A menu is crucial..its the most important part of the page.. without a menu you cant view the contents. thus using JAVA which is most certainly NOT compatible to all is a bad mistake.. as is Javascript or anything else.. either provide an alternative or dont use...
CSS is the best solution as you can make things look nice and flashy for those that can view it.. and it looks plain for those that cant.. which is far better than snazzy foir those that can and sod all for those that cant
>Have separate pages for first and premier divisions >and each of the cup results.
I do hope this is all DATABASE driven otherwise the whole site is gong to be murder to update and is going to take an age to do.. theres already signs that all the data is manual... very bad
>Club Details - squad lists? Obviously not a problem
Looked very poor.. club details should have a lot more info ..a heck of a lot more or plug into places like fanzone.co.uk, footballgroundsguide.co.uk, (ahem!) awads.co.uk ect
>Finally, fix the contacts page.
Or scrap the lot and start again with someone who actually knows what they are doing.. sorry to be harsh but its the truth.
seasider ?? you say we have the scores. fixtures and everything.. The whole point is "WE" do not.. only if you ahve the latest browser and plugins do you ahve it.. the rest get nothing..
Being a first effort is not a very good excuse. 90% of the problems shouldnt even be there first effort or not..
Also you should look at this as positive feedback instead of accusing us of moaning
I was wrong there is an alternative there is a text menu... Thanks for pointing it out It really doesnt make the site and better.. Its still bad design.. by far the worse place to put a menu is where people cant see it or have to look for it..Its also not on every page making it even less use.
Go to sub pages such as the monthly awards.. more JAVA buttons to access the info with no text alternatives.
There are text links at the bottom of the index page. But only the index page...
As to non-standard elements - yes java-script and java are no-nos unless coded so that the site works even if java is not enabled, and all you see is links without effects. CSS is one idea, plain HTML is the best approach though.
I too hope that the web site is database driven. It is virtually impossible to keep a web site like this maintained if it is not database driven. Pyramid Football (www.pyramidfootball.co.uk) is manually updated, and they are moving to database driven precisely becaue it is proving too difficult to keep it up to date. The Celtic web site is database driven, so that I can have some free time! It makes life easier in every regard. Theer is an initial investment in time, that is more than recouped over the life of the site.
I still think that any kept up-to-date information is better than no information, even if presented in a way that makes you shudder.
As to 'first stab' this is the second attempt, the first one fell flat two years ago, and never got going.
I think there are many problems with it, but none are insumountable. Sorting out the links would be a start. Generally, it has enough information to be going on with, the rest can be added once it's stable. They should look at other examples of league web sites (www.nationwide.co.uk/football, for instance) to see how it could be done. The non-league paper do a fair job, as do Pyramid Football.
We wait a fair few months and years for this to come along, and you lot complain.
It might be poor to the eye, but at least a) we now have one and more importantly , B) It has the kind of things we want on it!.
Stop complaining you lot and enjoy it.
I think you'll fnid that we are constructively analysing the site.
Now that we have one (and I've stated that this is a good thing) we are seeing how it can be improved.
Forget looks - we want functionallity, I don't care if it looks like Altrincham's, as long as it has the information that we need.
The big issue we have, is that a number of us cannot access the pages easily! You can have the best content on the web, but if you can't navigate to it, then what's the point? Nobody will go back.
Looks is a hit and miss affair anyway. What one person thinks looks great, another will thnik is ugly as hell. However, I do believe that a hover button that doesn't work on 20% of browsers, and when it does, goes right across the screen, and beyond on lower resolutions is not something that can be classed by anybody as good looking. Or useful.
In summary: The web site needs one thing that it is missing - Ease of navigation to information. That's not a moan or a whinge or even a complaint. It's a point of fact.
If it can be made to look good as well, then that's a plus point. It makes the journey to the information more enjoyable instead of a chore.
The comments you are all making will be accepted in the spririt of people who care and I think that is good. I am aware the site will have all sorts of problems and frustrations hence that is why the header says "In development". I have asked people to log in and see "what they think!". I actually do have a choice on letting people see what we have got so far, or keeping it in a restricted zone and getting the views a few. Problem with the latter approach is that the people who actually really care dont get a say, and it is ages before there is a vehicle for info., so what do I do ? As long as the emotion is taken out of the comment, they will be taken on board and worked upon if the suggestion has merit. The problem with the "contact us" for example was something that was working this time last week but failed on me yesterday. The email link does work so you can use that.
I sincerely hope that everyone will be patient,please keep the observations coming in, all I ask is for them to be sent in a civil manner. I have been a regular visitor to this forum so I know how passionate you can be on UniBond matters so I will not treat your views with the contempt that I can see some of you at times believe is the norm within football administration.
Rest assured this is a job seen as just starting not almost finished !
I can't speak for eveybody, but I will be civil (I hope you can see that I have been so far...)
I know the problems with maintaining a web site, and I have taken my share of 'constructive criticism'. When it has been constructive, I've done something about it, it is how the site evoles into something for people to use.
I think people's initial reaction has been because of anticipation. It whets the appetite!
Ian livesyeof chorley. Your missing the whole point. I dont know why you feel its your place to attack everyone who doesnt like the site.. We are entitled to our opinions and you shouldnt take the hump just because they differ from yours.. chill out man its only a web site
As for other comments.. yes its constructive feedback. But for me its also a complaint.. Work in progress is no excuse for a shoddy website. If someone who knows what they are doing is making the page then 90% of the problems would not exist in the first place.
Get someone who knows how to make a proper website on the job. The current author obviously does not. everyone can see that.. I dont mind being the one to say it..
No it does not.. however if you have an email client linked up to your browser.. say outlook linked to IE then it will work.. Otherwise as in my case it just brings up various error boxes
Just like the screen resolution the author is presuming that my (and everyone elses) computers are set up the same as his.. but they are not.
The correct way is to have the email linkable as now. but also showing the email address in the link then security concious people who dont link there email client or none pc people who dont have that facility can still contact the webmaster.
But a website author should already know these things eh
What's your problem Kipax? No you don't need the latest PC with the latest plugins. My PC is almost 4 years old with the only upgrade being from IE4 to IE5 and I can view everything perfectly. Most people agree the site could do with being more pleasing to the eye but for a first attempt it is ok and the content good. Its alright saying 'get it done professionally' but who pays for it then? Answer OUR clubs, not the people at the League. Don't you think enough clubs struggle financially as it is?
For me, let the site get everything on there that they want to put on and then let them tinker with the appearance. For other webmasters and I suppose programme editors and even local newspaper journalists it is a God-send and a bloody damned site better than what we had.
Sir, I appear to have not made myself clearer, my apologies on that account, but it's comments like
"That has to be one of the poorest, horribly designed websites around" and "WHAT A LOAD OF SH1TE" and " LOOKS LIKE SH1TE AND IS SH1TE" arent the comments that the people or person that's made the site wants to hear.
I, like many of you other people, have built a website, and realise how difficult at first it is to establish such a thing. Many websites start off crap and gradually build up momentum to become a great site, but at least they have all you lot need to know like the newsletter and fixtures and results, which is what a league site should be about, not about its asthetical beauty.
Give them time, but I dont see any reason where your moaning will get you guys.
I think the site's great, and just what the league wanted. Well done Alan and co.
Well said Ian, I couldn't have put it better. Alan has shown by his reasoned reply to the initial "short fused" reactions that he is prepared to listen and react to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.
To be fair to KIPAX he/she did offer some constructive points after the first outburst (although the underlying contempt was still there).
I am obviously fortunate to be able to recognise Java (whatever that is) and the site gives me what I want (and infinitely more than we had before!). I agree that the fixtures could be better presented and separate areas for Cup competitions would be helpful but I am sure Alan is taking all this on board.
The true test will come tomorrow when I get home from the match at 6.00 to be able to log on and get the results instantly without having to wait most of the evening for teletext to get its act together!
I have never said any of those things. Someone else called it those things.. I never did and I never would.. Please dont accuse me of saying things someone else has said.
I have an opinion and feel strongly about it.. Lets face it this is not a sunday pub team that one of the players offered to make a website for. Its the unibond league.. The author of the site has very little idea of what makes a good website first try or not.
I simply made my point .. A point I stand by and feel strongly about..
Please do not accuse me of soemhting I have not done.. All my messages are there to see.. I did not use any of the comments or language you are trying to associate me with (
I take it your comments made on October 25 2002 at 12:46pm werent made by you then!
"That has to be one of the poorest, horribly designed websites around"
"It really is pants."
and "very poor"
The website isnt bad for a first try, to me and many others bar yourself, it does everything that I want it to. I think it's yourself that needs to get a grip and alter your IE settings. Give the guys a break, cos your negative vibes and Alan summed it up in his post
"I sincerely hope that everyone will be patient"
this includes you KIPAX, you've waited for at least 2 years for a site, I think you can wait a little more
I made those comments yes and I stand by them and believe them to be true. I did NOT make the other nasty comments that you tried to attribute to me.
People have different opinions. Sorry you dont like mine but I am allowed them you know. I did not swear or go off on one. I didnt make personal nasty insults or go against the posting policy of this messageboard.
You just dont like my opinions.. Thats fair enough..But dont attack me for having my say mate:(
