appeared in its printed copies.
Risto has the English version below
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Risto Stefov Post subject: Re: About Macedonia and Macedonians in Central EuropePosted: 17 Oct 2009 12:35
Joined: 14 Feb 2003 20:48
Posts: 274 We are multiethnic
Bartłomiej widerek: Being a Macedonian what does it mean nowadays? How do you see the modern Macedonian national awareness developing?
Risto Stefov: If one wants to be true to themselves then one has no choice but to be who they really are. As much as it is difficult being Macedonians today we have no choice but to be who we are, Macedonians. I also want to point out that we were, as far as our collective memory can recollect, always Macedonian. It is just that the rest of the world is discovering us now, especially with the birth of our independent Republic of Macedonia, and as a result we are experiencing negative effects from our neighbours.
B.: Where then do you see the origins for a separate Macedonian identity beginning? Can we, in 21st century, after all migrations of nations, ethnic mergers and cultural developments refer to ancient tribes in order to justify our national aspirations?
If we go back to before nationalism arrived in the Balkans and before the modern states were established we will find that we were aware of our existence as Macedonians. We knew we were different from the Vlachs, Albanians, Turks and other ethnic groups that existed in Macedonia. We were aware of our religion, language, culture and ethnic identity. Each group was aware of the others and had its place in society. As Macedonians we coexisted together with the Albanians, Vlachs and others. The problems between us began when outsiders arrived and tried to define us not as we were but by terms and methods incomprehensible to us which threw us into confusion. Because no borders in the southern Balkans existed since Philip II conquered the City States in 338 BC, I have maintained that we are a mixture of the same people, perhaps in varying proportions, no matter what country you look at in the southern Balkans. It is predominantly Western politics and the need to have everything defined in simple terms, in black and white, which has brought us to this condition where one group negates the existence of another.
B.: What then decides about being a Macedonian?
It is Macedonia the land that makes the Macedonians who they are. Todays Macedonians are the product of all peoples that have over the years settled in Macedonia since the melt of the last ice age, this includes the ancient Macedonians and every other tribe that has settled there.
Just to be clear, Macedonia and the Macedonian people have no problem with who they are and with what to call themselves and their homeland. It is Greece that has that problem because it chose a slippery path to follow and it has nothing to do with ancient history. Greece, through war and imperial means, after the Balkan Wars of 1912, 1913 was granted Macedonian lands fully populated with Macedonian people. But instead of acting as an administrator of the land and guardian of its people, Greece expropriated these lands for itself and attempted to forcibly assimilate the Macedonians and turn them all into Greeks by force, virtually pushing the Macedonian ethnic identity into extinction. Naturally many Macedonians refused to be assimilated and as a result were exiled and their properties were confiscated. That is why today there are so many Macedonians living outside of Macedonia.
Today we have a large Macedonian minority living in Greece which wants its human rights and recognition acknowledged but Greece refuses to budge, claiming that no minorities exist in Greece and constantly invents problems to deflect this issue from itself. Thus the so-called Name Issue.
B.: Among your neighbours only Serbia and Albania recognize a separate Macedonian national identity. In Greece and Bulgaria you either do not exist or are referred to as Bulgarians or Slavophones. One of the major Bulgarian political parties which refers to Macedonia (VMRO) stands on a clear Bulgarian national position. Even Macedonian revolutionaries in late 19th and early 20th century were considered Bulgarian.
You must understand that the situation at that time was very complicated. While the Macedonian people were struggling to free themselves from the Ottomans, Macedonias neighbours, Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria, had designs on annexing Macedonian lands. After Macedonia was freed in 1878 by Russia and given back to the Ottomans by Britain and France, it became obvious that the Macedonian people would not be allowed to create their own state. It also became obvious that Macedonia would be given to Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria. So naturally when the Macedonian people rose to fight and free themselves no one came to help them. In fact quite the opposite happened. While Greece took the Ottoman side and offered the Ottomans assistance to fight against the Macedonians, the Bulgarians infiltrated Macedonian organizations and tried to take them over. When the Macedonians formed their Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (VMRO) inside Macedonia, the Bulgarians formed a parallel VMRO in Sofia in hopes of usurping the Macedonian organization, failing that, they attempted to confuse and divide the Macedonian people by pretending their version of VMRO was also Macedonian. Now because the VMRO in Sofia was Bulgarian the Bulgarians proclaimed to the world that all factions of VMRO were Bulgarian. The Macedonian people had no clout or strong voice outside of Macedonia so Greece and Bulgaria tended to speak for them. So anything the outside world knew about Macedonia, it saw through Greek and Bulgarian eyes. Even those outsiders who wanted to venture inside Macedonia were given Greek or Bulgarian guides who purposely misrepresented the Macedonian people and their cause. We have many examples of that.
B.: Officially Macedonian nationality firstly appeared in a Titos Yugoslavia. Maybe those saying that a Macedonian nationality is a Titos invention after 1945 to enlarge Yugoslavia up to Salonika are right?
Macedonians have existed as Macedonians before any of the modern Balkan countries were created. Unfortunately the outside world did not know about the Macedonians until countries like Yugoslavia, who were sympathetic to the Macedonians, became involved. Tito did not create the Macedonian identity as the Greeks and Bulgarians claim, he simply rewarded the Macedonian people (in the Yugoslav part of Macedonia) for fighting in the war to liberate Yugoslavia from the Fascist and Nazi occupiers. The Macedonians in Greece fought even harder to free Greece but when the time for rewards came those Macedonians received punishment instead. After Greece was liberated in WW II the Greeks decided that Macedonians no longer existed and those Macedonians living inside Greece were not only stripped of their promised rights but their voices were also silenced.
B.: How about your language? Macedonian and Bulgarian are often considered to be the same language (i.e. Bulgarian), separated only for political reasons.
Macedonians have been a lot longer in the Balkans than the Bulgarians. If we follow conventional history we will see that the Slav speaking people in Macedonia arrived in the Balkans centuries before the Bulgarians. Also if we again follow conventional history we will discover that the Bulgarians spoke a Turkic language and not a Slavic language. So how can Macedonian be a Bulgarian language? Wouldnt it be more correct to say the Bulgarians speak a dialect of the Macedonian language?
What most people dont know is that Bulgaria did not use a true Bulgarian dialect when it codified its literary language. It used a Thracian dialect most likely so that Bulgarian would sound like Macedonian and would attract Macedonians to become Bulgarians.
B.: The Republic of Macedonia has been involved in a long dispute with Greece over its name. For these reasons it cannot join NATO and begin official negotiations with EU about its membership. Do you see any solution of this problem?
The leadership of the Republic of Macedonia made a calculated error when it became involved in the name issue with Greece. The Macedonian people have every right by international law to self identify and no extra conditions should have been imposed by the United Nations when Macedonia applied for entry. But because of pressure by Greece, especially after imposing the crippling embargo in 1995, the Macedonian leadership agreed to negotiate something that was not negotiable; the countrys name. A solution can be found but it will have to be found at the UN. The UN made an error by placing additional demands on Macedonia which, according to the UN charter, are illegal. If the UN reverses its former decision and registers Macedonia as the Republic of Macedonia as per its original name on the UN application, then the multilateral aspect of the problem will be solved. Then we will be left with a bilateral problem involving only Greece. The Macedonian government has repeatedly stipulated that Greece can call Macedonia whatever it wants. As a Macedonian from Greece I dont agree with Greece calling Macedonians whatever it wants but I am a realist and know that we have no hope in hell of ever getting Greece to call us Macedonians that is without extreme pressure from the outside.
Over 120 countries, I believe the current number is 125, have already recognized Macedonia by its constitutional name Republic of Macedonia. Greece and perhaps Bulgaria are the only countries in the world that claim to have a problem with our name.
B.: Macedonians are dispersed among neighbouring nations. On the other side ethnic Albanians make up a significant group within the republic. Do you think that this ethnic mosaic may be dangerous for the future of not only Republic of Macedonia but wider southern Balkans?
Macedonia has been a multi-ethnic region for more than two millenniums and the Macedonian people have no problem living with minorities. Minorities too have no problems living with Macedonians. Macedonians have co-existed peacefully with Albanians and Vlachs for many centuries. Most problems experienced in Macedonia today are of an external nature. The problems started when outsiders began to interfere, stirring the minorities to discontent and pushing them to further divide Macedonia.
Outside of the Republic of Macedonia and the occupied parts of Macedonia now under Greece, Bulgaria and Albania, Macedonians also exist everywhere in the world, predominantly in Canada, the USA and Australia. The vast majority are political immigrants driven out over the years by the various occupiers. Those Macedonians today living in Greece and Bulgaria are not recognized as Macedonians and have absolutely no human rights. In fact Macedonians living in Greece and Bulgaria not only are not recognized but those who dare show their Macedonian sentiment are persecuted to no end.
B.: Many Macedonians have recently applied for Bulgarian citizenship and declared themselves Bulgarians. This of course was caused by economic factors due to Bulgarian membership in the EU. Arent you afraid that Macedonian identity is not as much endangered by political actions taken by Athens or Sofia but economic privileges Macedonians may enjoy being considered Bulgarians or Greeks?
This is nothing new. Macedonians have been declaring themselves as Bulgarians for a century now, not because they are Bulgarians but as a means to get ahead in life. Most of our prominent revolutionaries during the 19th century also declared themselves Bulgarians so that they could work for the Exarchate schools. The Bulgarian authorities insisted that Macedonians declare themselves Bulgarians before they were offered concessions. The Bulgarians did that 100 years ago and they still do it to this day.
As a result of this, Bulgarians today claim Gotse Delchev, our most venerated Macedonian hero, is a Bulgarian simply because he signed a piece of paper allowing him to get a job as a teacher in the Bulgarian schools.
Most Macedonians believe a persons ethnicity cannot be changed by simply signing a piece of paper. Bulgarians, however, think differently perhaps because they are unsure of their own identity?
As our recent ancestors used to say you cant change a horse into a donkey by simply signing a piece of paper.
Macedonia is very poor and has an unemployment rate of over 35% so people are forced to seek employment outside of their own country. By offering passports, with no questions asked, Bulgaria makes it easy for Macedonians to enter the European Union and find the employment they seek. Thank you Bulgaria for that, but unfortunately Bulgaria is not doing this to help the Macedonians but simply to blackmail them to become Bulgarians.
B.: The Macedonian Diaspora is particularly strong in Australia and Canada. Could you briefly describe actions taken by Macedonian organizations in these countries in order to support the Republic and Macedonians in the Balkans?
The Macedonian Diaspora is indeed strong and has been integrating itself very well in its host countries. Macedonians have been coming to Canada since the mid to late 1800s but purely to work, make money and return. But after the failed Macedonian 1903 Uprising against the Ottoman Empire, Macedonians have made Canada, the USA, Australia and other countries their permanent homes.
The Diaspora is helping and has been helping Macedonia since people began to emigrate but most of this help is at the individual level. It is traditional for family members from the Diaspora to send money and gifts to their families in Macedonia. This money helps families survive the usual economic strife. In that sense no one in Macedonia has starved or become homeless. It is interesting to note that with over 35% unemployment there is no hunger or homelessness in Macedonia.
I have personally met many Macedonian businessmen in the Diaspora who are ready to invest in Macedonia and are looking for conditions to improve. I have been told that it takes from 4 to 10 years for an investment to become a reality and as the situation in Macedonia stabilizes we will see more investors from the Diaspora investing in Macedonia. The key to success is stability and as one businessman put it our aim is to make money and we will not help ourselves or the Macedonian people if our businesses fail and we lose our investments because of instability.
I am sure there are many Macedonian organizations in the diaspora that are working closely to help Macedonia economically. But the only one I am aware of is the 2025 project about which you can find more information at this website:
http://www.macedonia2025.com/
This project is headed by a group of Macedonian businessmen from various business sectors including telecommunications, information technology, finance and banking, infrastructure development, entrepreneurship, etc. The project is designed to help in the development of a stronger economy and bring greater prosperity to Macedonia and its people.
B.: Is there anything you would expect from other Europeans to support Macedonian identity and the Republic of Macedonia? What can we do to make your cause better known and ultimately successful?
Macedonia and the Macedonian people have no high expectations from the European Union other than to afford them the same opportunity other European Nations enjoy. All the Macedonians want from their European neighbours is that they give them the same courtesy and respect that they give other European Nations. Macedonians want is to be treated the same as all other people and for their neighbours to recognize them for who they are - Macedonians and their homeland Macedonia and not to constantly interfere in their affairs. Macedonia is offering its hand of friendship to all and all it wants right now is to be accepted as an equal.
With its low wages and prices, excellent living conditions and investment opportunities, Macedonia is a great place to invest, be it in tourism or industry. And as I have always maintained, a poor man from Europe can live like a king in Macedonia. We invite you all to come and visit us.
This interview is published simultaneously in Jaskółka ląska a monthly of the Silesian Autonomy Movement, Poland and on the website of Infopol - the Polish Press Center of Lithuania (perhaps also in one more paper but must be confirmed). Available at:
www.jaskolkaslaska.eu
www.infopol.lt
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Risto Stefov Post subject: Re: About Macedonia and Macedonians in Central EuropePosted: 19 Oct 2009 12:05
Joined: 14 Feb 2003 20:48
Posts: 274 Please view the comments following the article:
http://www.infopol.lt/pl/naujienos/detail.php?ID=2344
