Has anyone heard any new news on the split of American and Japanese Akita's?

no change. I know that the AKC asked us to consider the prospect of splitting again. My personal opinion is that the AKCs only interest in the matter is that they want to have more breeds in the new Northern group they are planning.

One of the ACA board members is a member of my regional club and he didnt mention it at all, and its the kind of thing you'd mention.

On other lists, this would be such a contentious topic, it would have to be shut down. Maybe we can discuss it here though within reason if anyone is interested. We can set rules...say limit your posts to five lines or something like that?

Good idea I'll just sit back and watch

I would wonder if they did split the breed would the current Akita not stay in working as a guarding breed and then the Japanese one go into northern? Thats cool to think about- two Akitas in a BIS ring!

Anyhow I was browsing from my phone before, and I didnt mean to start a new topic, and frankly whatever the AKC and ACA decide, I will uphold, though I do have an opinion on it, I dont care enough about this to be on the front lines of the battle, LOL

But as someone who has an american type, a full import type, and a blend of the two living in his home, in my qualified observation, the main differences between the two types are BEHAVIORAL, not physical.

What do you think the difference in their behavior is? Too cool Chance and cheerleader Shine?

the japanese type dogs are not entirely domesticated. I cant give you a ton of examples offhand, but they are simply closer to the wolf in terms of behavior. They go for the legs in a dogfight which is a wolf behavior. They aren't as "guard-ey" but have a higher prey drive. Chance is they only dog I cant alpha roll. Its just hard to explain until you've lived with one.

thanks

Why can you not alpha role him?

And he gets so uncomfortable by it that I feel it outweighs the usefulness of it as a correction. Plus hes never had a grave offense to merit it.

Anyhow, I find it difficult to equate breeding a poodle to a schauzer with breeding one type of Akita to another. I wish that the person who said that was willing to elaborate. DNA can easily tell the difference between a poodle and a golden, ets... I have to respectfully disagree with that analogy. A japanese and American type can be bred and you KNOW you will get prick ears, curled tail, etc... A Golden and a Poodle, you never know what an F1 will look like.

My half-import is the sweetest cuddliest bear imaginable. Almost to a fault. The dog lives for love and is a complete whore for attention. The dog will alpha-roll whether you want him or not. Both his parents, also half-imports, are this way. The two pure American Akitas I've owned, while sweet and of great temperament and breeding (both are also CGC's), are quite a bit more stand-off-ish. I could not alpha-roll my Jordan to save my life. His trainer didn't believe me, until she spent half an hour on him and didn't get anywhere either. I don't have a particular opinion on splitting the breed, but my experience in combining them has been nothing but positive.

I dont feel that strongly about whether or not they split the breed either, my opinion is that the differences in appearance simply do not warrant it.

The "layman" can tell the difference between a show dog and a dog from Petland as well, does that mean we should not call both of THOSE hypothetical dogs an Akita?

My experience with a dog who is a mix between the two types, my first Akita Thor, has been a great one too. Both his headpiece and his personality are as close to the Akita standard as I feel I will ever own.

These two are litter brothers, at around 1 year old. My Tyler is the one on the right, short fur and long ears (legacy of his American grandma). For the record, I wanted Gunner, on the left, I love little ears and longer coat. But it wasn't my turn to pick an Akita. I can't be happier with my little Tyler though. I'll say one thing, it took him a while to mature. He was scrawny until about 3 years old. He's really matured in the last year, great chest and grew into his ears--somewhat. I weighed him a couple of days ago, 106 lbs. That's good 10 lbs heavier than a year ago, and he's all muscle.

is breathtaking I want it!!! He is SO BEAUTIFUL. We could sit here and argue all day, but if a pic is worth 1000 words, dog on the left is the best argument anyone could offer for NOT splitting the breed. Look at his great earset and he has nice bone!

PS Your dog is lovely too I didnt mean to sell him short LOL

I wanted him so bad, but my husband instantly fell in love with his donkey boy, and that's what we ended up with. Again, our little Tyler is perfect and everything I'd ever want from an Akita, but I almost cry every time we go visit fuzzy Gunner. He lives a good life on a huge ranch with his breeder. The only thing I think Tyler really has over his brother in appearance is his color. Tyler got his beautiful red form his stunning mommy. I tell you, I complain about Tyler and his ears, but the dog does stop traffic and gets admired everywhere he goes, so he can't be that bad...

HLakitas@gmail.com

I love his ears, the shape of the face, and it looks like he may have a double curl tail! I want him!

Just wondering. What kind of behavioral differences? I thought the main differences would be coat and size. It would be great seeing two Akita's in the ring.

it is definitely a touchy topic to discuss, but I can't say that I haven't always been curious which one kody would be considered if a split did occur.
But i love him either way, so I guess it doesn't matter. I can say that I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to distinguishing the two, being that their appearances can be so strikingly different.

Which by the way, in this country there is NO SUCH BREED as an "American Akita," are just as divergent in appearance. I have seen some "american" Akitas with excessively long necks that come into the body ahead of the withers. all this arch of neck and a pronounced crown and stop, yet the neck comes into the body in front of the withers. Such a dog could never have a correct front assembly. Then I have seen "american" types that look like they have no neck at all. There are "american" types that look like Bears, and "American" types that look like arabian horses, (The latter seems to be in favor in the show ring nowadays, barf.)

Anyhow the point is, if we were going to split based on apperance, there would be three or four Akita breeds.

Anthony, you have a tendency to get on this board and speak a lot of words to try and make yourself sound intelligent. Yet as I read your posts over and over again, I struggle with trying to understand your point to all those words.

No breed has the perfect breeders working towards one common goal, although the think they might be, causing every generation to be one step closer to THE perfect dog. People have different interpretations of the standard or breed to the wrong dog for the wrong reason. Those results, creating different types does not mean the breed should be split into all those different types. But that's a whole different topic on educating people on how to breed to the standard.

Okay- Please dont tell me what my own motivation is for using the words I choose to use. Are you clarivoyant? No. If you have a hard time understanding what I am trying to say, and if you care enough to sit there and reread my posts, just ask for clarification! Id be glad to try and reword or elaborate!

Humans are not perfect, therefore breeders are not either. Agreed. We all try to get closer to our oen interpretation of the standard. Right you are.

You said, "creating different types does not mean the breed should be split into all those different types." I feel that you just pretty much validated the argument of the anti-split people with that statement. Do you disagree?

Problem with standards, are that descriptive adjectives can be somewhat less than tangible. (Oops, wouldn't want you to think I am using big words to "make myself sound intelligent," so let me reword that. The words in breed standards can sometimes mean different things to different people.)

HOWEVER- let me try to clarify- You have been showing dogs for 27 years, correct? SO then, you remember what Dobermans USED to look like, right? They were once rugged, powerful animals. They were like a linebacker in football. NOW, Dobermans have become ELEGANT. Still strong, but more sinewy, like a figure skater. WELL, I see the same thing happening in Akitas and it just disgusts me. And the popular dogs with the ewe necks, overangulation, and excessive sidegaits are the main culprits, in my observation. I feel an Akita should make someone say "What the heck is THAT?" and not, "What a pretty dog!" I feel elegant should not be in the same sentence as Akita. And lets face it, this breed is becoming elegant. As you can tell, its a pet peeve for me.

As long as I am entitled to my opinion, I feel that I should be able to express that as long as I dont be rude to others in the act of doing so.
I have never flat out told anyone that their dog was a piece of crap, which is more than I can say for other posters in this very thread.

But listen, Erika, my opinions are what they are. They are genuine. They are the result of my own measured observations. I am puzzled why you would accuse me of trying to make myself sound any certain way. Most people who know me know how little I care what others say/think about me. They dont pay for my dog food or ex my dogs, LOL

Well we all know where those necks came from and the overbreeding of that dog that has tainted many lines. This happens in many breeds which is why they head down hill. Makes me sick.

I didn't say you needed to dumb things down. Just saying, your points get lost sometimes.

The two types are so distinct they can be discerned by laymen. Even if the dogs are not exclusive in every single aspect of type, the emphasis of the breeders have become distinctly divergent, focusing on the differences between the FCI standards rather than commonalities. Arguments for cross-breeding the types are equally as questionable as arguments for breeding designer dogs.


There's my five lines. Im done with this topic.

Five lines seems a bit arbitrary, perhaps a better guideline would be no specific and outright badmouthing of other peoples dogs? Example: "your dog has "no bone, no front," etc..." anyhow I think anyone who advocates a breed split ought to talk to the Belgian Shepherd people about the decimation that their breeds have endured since splitting over here. DNA studies in Japan have been unable to determine any significant difference between the two Akita types. Inasmuch as all the shepherdy, mastiffy type akitas descended from the matagi dogs used to create the japanese type of today, i am not surprised. People who are so adamant about a split may have dogs with huge ears, round eyes, and loose skin. And they fear losing to dogs without those shortcomings. (Its as if napoleon wanted to ban tall people from the human genepool.) Or people who have imports may want to corner the market and line their pocketbooks, thus they desire a split. Equally unethical IMO. If you look at all the undersized akitas that have resulted from our decades of inbreeding, WHY would one want to further limit the availability of genetic outcrosses is beyond me. Also, its pretty unamerican to try to impose one's will on the fancy as a whole. If you dont like a certain bloodline or type, then avoid it!