Question on P-51B "Ding Hao"March 13 2005 at 1:34 AM
rob (Login robertCarvallo)
from IP address 184.108.40.206
I'm planning on building this ac with this markings. My question is, did the P-51B with the "Ding Hao" marking used a malcom hood. I have the P-51 In Action from squadron which has a pic of the P-51B, in pg 28, but I cannot tell (picture is pretty faded) if this ac used the malcom hood.
Any help will be appreciated.
|March 13 2005, 1:57 AM |
In the Histoire and Collections book of the P-51 there is a profile (but no photo) showing a Malcolm hood on Ding Hao (serial # 36315, with 6 Japanese kills, 6 German kills).
Hope this helps,
Ding Hao didnt have a malcom hood
|March 13 2005, 2:24 AM |
"Ninth Airfore in Colour" has a pic of the aircraft with a standard canopy. HTH.
There were two Ding Hao's and one of them did sport a Malcolm hood. n/t
|March 13 2005, 2:32 AM |
Well the question now is which one does he mean...n/t
|March 13 2005, 2:41 AM |
Here ya go Brad
|March 13 2005, 9:59 AM |
"Non Gratum Anus Rodentrum"
Rian Jones (RJ)
Looks like a Malcom Hood to me! (nm)
|March 13 2005, 10:44 AM |
Sorry..responded to the wrong person...responce above n/t.
|March 13 2005, 2:25 AM |
|This message has been edited by _BlackHawk_ from IP address 220.127.116.11 on Mar 13, 2005 2:26 AM|
Here's a photo of the Ding Hao that had the stock canopy...
|March 13 2005, 2:36 AM |
This is the one most commonly depicted in art and on decal sheets as it was the one in which he flew his Medal of Honor mission:
Squadron in Action show two pics with Malcolm hood
|March 13 2005, 2:58 AM |
In the Squadron In Action book there are two photos of Ding Hao on pg 28, both of which show a Malcolm hood. The photo on the left shows the hood slid back, which only happens with the Malcolm hood. On the photo on the right there is no framing visible on the canopy, again indicating a Malcolm hood.
But as another post shows, Ding Hao also carried a regular canopy. Guess it depends on which you want to model.
Two machines, details different
|March 13 2005, 3:26 AM |
It seems that there were two (or more?) marked similarly. Note also one machine has the white tail band, the other does not. Shrouded and unshrouded exhausts.
One of the referenced photographs shows a serial, 43-6315. The venerable Monogram kit decals (early 70s) had the serial as 43-6374. Not to assume kit instructions are correct but one has to wonder where they got the serial. BTW that kit also included both canopies but only the one serial.
|Hal the P-47fan|
One thing that must be remembered,
|March 13 2005, 8:59 AM |
most P-51B aircraft arrived in theater with the straight canopy. The Malcolm Hood was a British developement, and most Mustangs carrying it had been retrofitted in England. Same applies to white striping. It was added in theater, and the first Mustangs in the 8th flew for a while without them. The stripes were to aid in identification, as at speed, the P-51B bore a resemblance to the Bf-109. As far as serials go, don't trust a kit as old as the Monogram -B as a reference. I personally am looking for a pic of Bud Anderson's "Old Crow" P-51B wearing it's original framed canopy. brgds, Hal
|March 13 2005, 10:59 AM |
According to IPMS Journal's SPECIAL EDITION of THE 354THFG IN WW2 (1993) by Walt Fink & Doug Gifford, Howard used 3 P-51Bs named DING HAO! (all AJ*A). The first is known to have carried 3 German kill markings (sawastikas) and DING HAO without the exclamaton point. The white nose ID band did not go all the way to the exhaust stacks. The serial is unknown (at least up to 1993).
The second DING HAO! was 43-6374 and had the original canopy. The crew chief for the first two was apparently M.C.Hovet. Six japanese and six German kills on the port side under the canopy. The data plate with a white cross to signify a fuselage fuel tank. Stenciled(?) AJ*A for fuselage codes and "36374* in yellow on the tail for serial numbers. White ETO bands are on the nose (back to the shrouded exhaust stacks), the upper and lower wings, the upper and lower stabalizers and the vertical tail.
The third DING HAO! was 43-6315 (with the Malcom Hood), going by photos in the S/S inAction and Osprey A/C of the ACes #7. C/C Trice name on the nose, unshrouded exhaust stacks, no white tail band, and six fighter sweep brooms on the nose just above the left exhausts directly behind the white nose band.
Thank you all so very much
|March 13 2005, 1:49 PM |
You guys sure know this stuff. I guess I now need to make the decision as to which one I want.
Thank you all again very much.
There were two different Ding Hao's...
|March 21 2005, 2:11 PM |
The first was a P-51B-5NA without a fuselage tank installed (no white cross by the data block). It had small block lettered name with no exclamation point on the cowling, with three backwards oriented white swastika kill markings and a rough overspray edged white nose band that did not go all the way back to the exhaust stack opening. We do not have this plane's serial number, however, the 354th's trading of its non-fuselage tank equipped Mustangs for fuselage tank equipped ones is documented. Maj. Howard traded this plane in for a P-51B-7NA with a fuselage tank. (All P-51B7NA's started life as B-5NA's. Installation of fuselage tanks was a depot level modification, thus the trade-in, and afterwards they became B-7NA's with a white cross added to the data block to remind pilots to be careful of the CG). The second Ding Hao was serial 43-6315. This one had the fancy tilted and slanted white lettering with yellow outline and exclamation point and wore six Japanese and six German kill markings. Initially, it wore the original canopy and had the standard ETO theatre markings for Mustangs consisting of white vertical tail stripe, along with wingroot and horizontal tailplane white stripes. It soon received a Malcolm canopy and subsequent to that, as all OD/NG Mustangs did, had its white vertical tail strip painted out with OD. The reason for this is that it was found that the white stripe broke up the Mustang's big square vertical tail sillouette, making it look too much like a low rounded Bf-109 tail. Why anyone would think that the mere presence or absence of stripes or a Malcolm canopy denotes a different airplane is beyond me. It is the same airplane. Paint spray guns, wrenches and rivet guns to change canopies were possessed by all squadron ground crews. Malcolms were installed at the squadron level for aircraft already in service, not just at the depot level. Ding Hao's was in fact, one of the earliest Malcolm installations, because photos show it in place before the white vertical stripe was painted out, indicating it was very early on in Mustang operations. One more point: neither the original nor the second Ding Hao, was the plane Maj. Howard flew on his MOH mission. That plane was not his regular assigned a/c and was coded AJ*X. We do not have the serial number of this plane. Best info is that it was un-named with no nose art. The one with the twelve kill marks was assigned well after his MOH mission, and after he traded in the first Ding Hao, the P-51B-5NA, for the P-51B-7NA. (BTW, it has long been known that the Monogram kit decals had an incorrect serial number. It was not the number of "another" third Ding Hao.)
|This message has been edited by P-51C from IP address 18.104.22.168 on Mar 21, 2005 2:28 PM|