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Question for Tommy Thomason on AJ-1 Savage

August 28 2009 at 9:58 PM
34Drive  (Login 34Drive)
HyperScale Forums
from IP address 75.181.49.130

how difficult would it be to backdate the Anigrand kit to an Aj-1? I would have to shorten the tail, and change dyhydral. How hard is that?

 
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Tommy H. Thomason
(Login tailspinturtle)
HyperScale Forums
64.252.199.49

The Problem

August 28 2009, 11:19 PM 

Is the canopy. The AJ-1's was shorter, with the third crewman located below the flight deck. The empennage change to backdate it to an early AJ-1 is relatively easy. The original AJ-1 horizontal tail had dihedral as you noted. However, the fin/rudder had basically the same total area and shape but the rudder was much bigger, with a cutout in the inboard trailing edge of the horizontal stabilizer to accommodate it. There were also strakes on each side of the lower aft fuselage. Surviving aircraft were rebuilt with the AJ-2 tail (smaller rudder but same basic overall fin size, no dihedral or trailing edge cutout in the horizontal tail, no strakes) but retained the original canopy (with larger escape hatch for pilot and bombardier) and cockpit configuration. The other notable external difference was that the nose gear door on the -2 was in two parts rather than just one as on the AJ-1.
[linked image]

 
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(Login 34Drive)
HyperScale Forums
75.181.46.115

Thanks, I was wondering if VC-6 ever had all blue AJ-2's in Japan

August 29 2009, 11:10 PM 

I want to depict with my new Anigrand kit a VC-6 all blue aircraft c.1954 in Itazuke Japan. It's featured in Airpower magazine, 9/2004 in Harry Sievers photo essay. The caption says AJ-1 of VC-6, but the tailplane is horizontal and the rest of the plane looks to be a AJ-2. Sorry I can not post, are you familiar with the color photo? Thanks again!!!

 
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Tommy H. Thomason
(Login tailspinturtle)
HyperScale Forums
64.252.199.49

VC-6 AJ-2

August 30 2009, 9:17 AM 

If I have that Airpower issue, I've misplaced it so I can't help you with that identification, other than to repeat that there are only two external differences between the AJ-2 and the AJ-1 after the tail mod: the canopy and the nose gear door(s). VC-6 operated both types. However, in a quick review of the Ginter book, I didn't see any pictures of a VC-6 AJ-1 with anything other than the original tail, although that's not conclusive.

Nostalgic Plastic sells a decal sheet for a blue VC-6 AJ-2:

http://www.nostalgicplastic.com/moreinfo.cfm?DTTM=20090830081014&RequestedTimeout=500FROM=index&KIT=3523&TYPE=7&SCALE=14&MFG=84

[linked image]


 
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34Drive
(Login 34Drive)
HyperScale Forums
75.181.46.115

Thanks!!!

August 30 2009, 6:49 PM 

I think, based upon confirmed photos of AJ-2's in service in 1954,that VC-6 converted to the 2's in early 1954 and sent a few to Korea. The photo in Airpower with the great Harry Sievers pics from Itzasuke shows very little detail, but definately a "2" type tail, and the airframe looks real clean (unlike those on K-3 airstrip).

I hope Nostalgic invests in both the AJ-1 and AJ-2P, as both aircraft are under-represented by current selections.

Congratulations again as the Savage appears to be spot on and a great replica.

 
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Darren Roberts
(Login Darren_Roberts)
HyperScale Forums
69.254.232.111

Clarification

August 30 2009, 11:51 AM 

Okay, I'm trying to wrap my feable brain around this. I, too, am going to backdate the new Anigrand kit to a -1 for a customer of mine who's dad flew them with VC-8. Are you saying the actual size of the tail is the same, but the rudder size was different? It sure does look in pictures like the fin cap was taller on the -2. My knowledge is in more modern Navy jets, so I'm kind of out of my comfort zone with this build and would like to get it correct for him. Any clarification would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 
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Tommy H. Thomason
(Login tailspinturtle)
HyperScale Forums
64.252.199.49

Unfortunately

August 30 2009, 1:45 PM 

There aren't any good drawings of the AJ-2 tail, certainly nothing to compare to North American's excellent multi-view and cross-sectioned drawings of the early AJ-1. The Anigrand kit was my best guess at the AJ-2 tail. It may be as much as nine inches higher than the original -1 tail, or 1/8 inch in 1/72, and it is probably a bit broader as well.

These ought to help, combined with the inboard profile I already posted, if you want to be more accurate than just rescribing the rudder on the Anigrand kit, cutting out the notch in the elevators, and adding the strakes:
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]

The wing span, including tip tanks, was 75 feet. The North American drawings do not show the fairing for the bombardier's periscope (it wasn't on some early airplanes) and the antenna fairing ahead of the nose wheel well should actually be positioned a bit to the left, in line with the left edge of the nose wheel well. This is a picture of an AJ-1 that has the early periscope fairing for the ASB-1.
[linked image]

The Anigrand bombardier panel is more like an early AJ-1 with legacy radar bombing equipment and no periscope. However, later AJ-1s did have the ASB-1 system. The AJ-1 pilot was also provided with a stick, not a wheel as in the AJ-2, and the throttles were on a console at his left side.

 
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Tommy H. Thomason
(Login tailspinturtle)
HyperScale Forums
64.252.199.49

Wait a minute

August 30 2009, 2:27 PM 

Are you sure that his dad flew -1s with the original tail? All were modified with the -2 tail fairly early on. For sure if it was in the gray/white scheme, it had a -2 tail.

 
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