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Monogram B-24 mods

September 12 2010 at 1:33 PM
  (Login dhogue)
HyperScale Forums
from IP address 98.198.57.215

I am working on the 1/48 B-24D. I am rescribing, replacing the clear parts, replacing many details including the wheel wells and opening the rear of the nacells. I know the problem with the rear turret and canopy, are there any other glaring errors. Do the verticle stabilizers lean back too far? Thanks.

 
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David Hansen
(Login Falcon50EX)
HyperScale Forums
64.134.128.90

I might be kicking over an anthill by saying this but

September 12 2010, 1:48 PM 

Hi David,

In general, i think the shape of the Monogram B-24 is pretty good except in one area- The cockpit and upper nose profile.

To me, the canopy looks foreshortened in height, and the upper profile of the fuselage from the windscreen forward to the turret doesn't look right to me at all. I think the only people who "nailed" this shape properly was Hasegawa.

i don't know how much can be done to fix this, but its one of those things that sticks in my craw and spoils what is otherwise a very good model especially considering its age. Fixing it will probably require a horizontal chop job to remove the upper nose section, then the development of an integrated upper fuselage/Canopy part. It would be a rather complicated and demanding task.

i guess the flamings is gonna begin now. Running for cover.

Bon Chance,

david

 
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(Login dhogue)
HyperScale Forums
98.198.57.215

Thanks for your help. I looked for the article and couldn't find it in my stack of saved

September 12 2010, 8:56 PM 

FSM articles.

 
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don fenton
(Login chipsnsalsa)
HyperScale Forums
208.124.5.29

FSM January 1992, Vol. 10 , No. 1 n/t

September 12 2010, 11:10 PM 

n/t

x

 
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(Login modeldad)
HyperScale Forums
173.76.23.237

Paul Budzik did a correction to the J years ago. May apply to the D.

September 12 2010, 3:04 PM 

I'll email you the article. The tail was a big issue.

Photobucket

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.



BUY THIS BOOK
http://tinyurl.com/Ididntseeitcoming


    
This message has been edited by modeldad from IP address 173.76.23.237 on Sep 12, 2010 3:06 PM


 
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(Login dgcantrell)
HyperScale Forums
76.8.173.224

I remember that article..

September 12 2010, 4:46 PM 

and I would assume it would apply to the D since they are basically the same mold.

Cheers,
Dave


    
This message has been edited by dgcantrell from IP address 76.8.173.224 on Sep 12, 2010 4:49 PM


 
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(Login Aras262)
HyperScale Forums
78.60.205.120

Steven, can you email me that article too? Monogram's

September 12 2010, 5:03 PM 

J and D are not so far from top of my "must do now" pile...

TIA, Aras

 
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(Login modeldad)
HyperScale Forums
173.76.23.237

Day Fighter Scheme = Dark Green, Ocean Gray and Medium Sea Gray

September 12 2010, 8:43 PM 

MSG = Medium sea gray

Photobucket

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.



BUY THIS BOOK
http://tinyurl.com/Ididntseeitcoming

 
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(Login MattP38)
HyperScale Forums
173.59.9.219

Hey Steven

September 18 2010, 10:07 AM 

I just came across this thread. May I have a copy of the article? I have both a D and a J

Thanks,

M.

It's good to have a friend here at my shoulder with a little time to spend, til I find love again -F. C. Collins W. C. Bickhardt

 
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don fenton
(Login chipsnsalsa)
HyperScale Forums
208.124.5.29

Here's a few other details to fix............(long)

September 12 2010, 5:02 PM 

David,

Fixing and detailing the 1/48 B-24D can turn into quite a project. The basic Monogram B-24D kit does not represent the D version very well. Detailing the interior is a major undertaking. I won't comment on the interior. Here are some other things to fix:

- Wrong tail turret:

The B-24D used the A-6 turret with the staggered guns. You can modify the kit turret (representing the A-6B type) or get Bill Koster's clear parts for the A-6 turret. If you do get the Koster parts, get the resin turret interior parts. These parts make the turret assembly a little easier.

- Trim tabs:

The rudder trim tabs represent the latter aircraft configuration. The B-24D rudder tabs were almost 3 feet in length. Reduce the length of the trim tabs by scribing new hinge lines one rib tape line inwards, top and bottom, centered on the center line of the rudder. Fill in the old hinge lines.

The trim tabs on all control surfaces had piano hinges on one side. Use small pieces of stretched sprue to represent the hinges. D&S has good images that show how the trim tabs were attached and activated.

Aileron trim tab on the right aileron only. Fill in the left aileron trim tab. And while you are it, remove the fabric detail and those strange wavy raised ribs on all of the fabric control surfaces.

- Ball turret:

Not all B-24D's had the ball turret installed. You may need to replace the rear crew hatch with the so-called tunnel gun installation. The kit does not provide the correct clear rear crew entry door, the internal X frame for the tunnel gun and the tunnel gun.

- Nose guns:

An excerpt from Phil Marcheses post to HS regarding the configuration of the three nose guns:

The port cheek gun windows came in four common versions on the B-24D plus at least two late (rare) configurations that attempt to provide more of a forward angle (same concept as late F series Forts). The Main four variations are as follows:

* A long cheek window from St Paul, seen mostly on 98th BG originals (mostly 41-11700-900).

* A nearly square, short cheek window used on most indigenous D-CF (42-63XXX) and D-CO modified by Fort Worth thru D-20-CO (mostly after D-1-CO.

* a mid-length internally braced cheek window on D-CO modified by St Paul possibly as early as some 41-11800 and thru D-1 to D-20-CO.

* The factory cheek window with the external framing over the gun mount and the large doubler plate that also surrounds the nav window. This appears a very few late D-20-CO but begins in earnest on the D-25-CO and all D-30-CO onward except the few late variations mentioned above or those which have had the cheek windows tampered during the D1 turret mod process.

The cheek windows and greenhouse on the later E series were different.

- Props:

Early B-24D's used narrow chord props. Koster had a set of these for the PB4Y-2 in metal that can be used. Or modify the kit props to suit. Don't bother to correct the cowlings for the narrow chord props.

- Misc. details:

- Remove wingtip navigation lights. Keep the teardrop shaped lights top and bottom of the wingtip.

- Don't install the rectangular boxes in the openings at the rear of the engine nacelles that you laboriously opened. These boxes are not the oil coolers. These boxes are the air filters for protected (non-ram, filtered) combustion air. Not used on most B-24Ds.

- Add the red left wing passing light.

- Open a small, square opening in the rear fuselage under the rear turret to represent the ejection chute for the cases for the rear A-6 turret. See page 46 of FAOW #54 for a very good image that shows this little known or illustrated detail. The spent cases from the guns in the A-6 turret were collected in the bottom the turret and ejected overboard through this opening. The guns had a "link ejection guide" installed to deflect links out of the turret as they were ejected from the guns.

- Add the lens in the signal lamp fairing below the rear turret. See page 46 of FAOW #54 for a very good image.

- The representation of the tunnel gun scanning windows in the lower rear fuselage is not correct for early B-24Ds. Early B-24Ds had the fuselage skin cut away and the scanning windows attached to the exterior of the fuselage. The internal frames and longerons were visible. See page 46 of FAOW #54 for a very good image that shows that this type of window was proud of the exterior fuselage skin.

- If desired, add the small vent and pressurization intake for the fuel system. These were located in the fuselage just above the wing near the rear edge of the fuselage raft compartment. Do not use the kit provided post-type vents on the upper wing.

- Add a fire extinguisher access panel to the right side just aft of the rear bomb bay door.

- Add the external lights and various antennae.

- And get some good .50 cal. MGs.

- Check the location of the pitot masts. Early B-24Ds had the masts horizontal at near mid-fuselage.

- Get hold of the George Hopp drawing of the B-24D to confirm location of the various doors and panel lines. The kit has some of these wrong. Have fun scribing this kit. The ones that I have scribed have a very hard plastic.

Likely that I've overlooked things that need fixing on this kit. Other B-24 folks here will fill in.

Don


x

 
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(Login thegrimus)
HyperScale Forums
205.188.116.143

NOW we're cookin' wid gas...(adding)

September 12 2010, 6:02 PM 

my 'discovery' from viewing an ancient Squadron book on WW II bombers that included Granger drawings. The vertical & horizontal cross sections of the vertical tails and horiz stabs revealed a curious shape to leading edges of rudders and elevators. Then, when I reviewed photo's, it became apparent that, unlike our standard rounded edges, the profile radically changes half way down. Monogram includes the effect on the rudders, but not the elevators, on their top side.

Another distinction one can add involves the metal sheeting on the leading edges of the vertical stabs. Modern photos show an obvious scallop effect from overlaps. It's not a butt joined panel line, as we often assume from most drawings or moldings. Simply shave a bit on one side or the other of each panel that makes the L/E, much like the effect of dimpling rivets or panel overlays on ribs and spars (shown on Hyperscale with a Fw-190 to everyone's proper joy).

Paul Budzik is a million miles out of my league, setting a well-lit path to a mortal's efforts to build, with articles that show a practical, humane approach to great results. I save and use them. However, I disagree with his assertion that the horiz stab needs to be leveled. What I see in photos and drawrings is that Monogram got that right. Granger shows a couple degrees positive angle of attack (or, more properly, positive incidence to the centerline). It's pretty hard to notice, with those big verticals in the way.

Bomb Bays: if open, you can replace the doors, using thin sheet over a corrugated sheet used by model RRdrs for siding. Kinda tempting, but then there's the whole bomb bay thing to tinker with. I've only done the doors, so far.

Bravo to your great list, above. Right click that baby!

Ah, the good old days, when a finished model was a joy to behold, and I wondered very little about interiors I couldn't see anyway. Sigh. Restored-to-flying -24's show a variety of interior greens. Looks a lot like bronze green all over in my ref, "The Soldier." But, as usual, I've wandered well afar of my pay grade...





Model on, Wayne.
Model on, Garth.

*Note to modelers: the intended clever humor in this post is likely juvenile and will need further work. Those inclined may offer guidance. Others may simply shrug and move along. Supportive guffaws and laughter is appreciated and hereby acknowledged.

 
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don fenton
(Login chipsnsalsa)
HyperScale Forums
208.124.5.29

About the horizontal stabilizers and rear fuselage........

September 12 2010, 10:49 PM 

I don't agree you with regarding the angle of incidence of the horizontal stabilizer in the kit. The Consolidated drawing of the B-24D tail group shows a 2 1/2 degree upward angle of incidence in relation to the fuselage horizontal datum line. The kit horizontal stabilizer has an angle of incidence much greater than 2 1/2 degrees. This makes the fuselage depth under the rear turret (location of the turret mounting ring) too shallow. So if you correct the angle of incidence of the horizontal stabilizer, the fuselage under the rear turret has to be raised or built up. The Hopp B-24D drawing is very helpful for correcting the rear fuselage.

Also, the fuselage width under the horizontal stabilizer is too narrow. The opening for the rear turret mounting ring should be the same diameter was the nose turret opening in the B-24J kit. A long, tapering wedge shaped spacer has to be glued in to the fuselage underside to make the fuselage the proper width. The fuselage sides under the horizontal stabilizer need a spreader to force the fuselage sides to match up to the horizontal stabilizer. The kit fuselage sides bend inward quite a bit.

Builders of the Monogram 1/48 B-24 kits are faced with either fixing the problems and adding detail, thus creating a major project, or building OOB and enjoying the finished model. With work this kit can be made into a gem.

http://www.hyperscale.com/2008/features/b24djm_1.htm

http://www.hyperscale.com/features/2000/pb4y1lg_1.htm



x

 
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(Login dhogue)
HyperScale Forums
98.198.57.215

Thanks for the response. I have the Squadron and Koster clear parts. I read that the fuel

September 12 2010, 8:53 PM 

filler caps on the wing tops weren't there on the D model. Is this true?

 
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(Login chipsnsalsa)
HyperScale Forums
208.124.5.29

Fuel cell filler openings........

September 12 2010, 11:03 PM 

Where did you read that? According to the Consolidated service manual, from a/c 41-23640, there were three openings on each wing. Earlier aircraft did not have the outboard auxiliary tanks thus only two openings on each wing. Aircraft before 41-23640 did not have an opening inboard of the No. 1 and No. 4 engine nacelles. These aricraft were modified for the installation of the auxiliary tanks as parts became available.

Don

x

 
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(Login dhogue)
HyperScale Forums
98.198.57.215

Thanks for the info. I'm in the early stage of figuring this out. nt

September 13 2010, 1:02 AM 

nt

 
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(Login dhogue)
HyperScale Forums
98.198.57.215

Do the radio wires enter the fin in the middle of the de-icer boots,seems odd. nt

September 13 2010, 1:23 AM 

nt

 
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don fenton
(Login chipsnsalsa)
HyperScale Forums
208.124.5.29

Yes. An eyelet threaded into the top of fin. Insulator attached to eyelet. n/t

September 13 2010, 10:55 PM 

n/t

x

 
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