Hi everyone,

I'm wondering if anybody can suggest either mineral spirits or lacquer thinner (one or the other, or something else entirely) as the best to get a nice gloss coat. Also, at what ratio for high-gloss? Multiple coats at different ratios? Different air pressures? Drying time is not an issue at all for me...if it takes a week to dry, no problem...the quality of the gloss coat is the most important...and I'm lucky enough to have an excellent paint booth that sucks out the fumes so well, I don't need a mask (although I wear one anyways).

The reason I ask is because I'm going to start tackling some post-war aircraft finishes for the first time, mostly special paint schemes (eg airshow schemes) and civilian aircraft, and I'd like for the enamel paint to "settle down" nice and glossy, without the need for polishing the surface later, if possible.

FYI, I use Xtracolour, Humbrol, and WEM paints, depending on the colour, and I use an Iwata Eclipse.

TIA,

- Andrew

at about 30psi with a Passche VL. Smooth as glass.

30 psi? Wow...I usually shoot at between 5 and 10, with enamel thinned about 50/50...but usually a greater ratio of thinner.

At 30 psi, how much do you thin? When you say as close as possible, how close do you mean?

I used a Badger 200 for 25 years prior to buying the VL, and learned it needs alot more air blowing through it. In fact, I was advised to go high pressure here on Hyperscale by a guy who is a pro airbrush artist. Skeptical when I first heard it, turned out to be the best advice I ever received here.

I'm in the process of switching over to Laquer thinner (I've used DuPont's Enamel Reducer 3812S for years but have been informed by my local auto supply that after this gallon is gone there will be no more!) Mineral Spirits should work well also for you. I use Testors, Testors Model Master, Humbrol (both the current and the old Authentics line) even some old discontinued lines of enamel paints (including some 40+ year old bottles of Pactra)

Either should work well for you.

...with flat paint, or if my gloss coat doesn't have to be smooth because I'm applying a flat coat later...but it's gloss paint in particular that I'm working with...do you find one better than the other in this situation?

to spray flat paints and then apply an appropriate gloss finish in a lot of cases. I find the flat paints go on thinner/smoother and can cover better than gloss paints. Then its easy enough to impart a gloss with Future, Tamiya clear, etc.

I've almost stopped using acrylics...I use clear enamel now.

If you use clear enamel, which thinner works best for you when applying the final gloss coat?

Lacquer thinner dries so quickly that it's likely to give you a rough, pebbly or "orange peel" finish, especially on an airplane which is an odd shape to paint. It's almost impossible to paint any part of an airplane without getting overspray on some other part.

For a good gloss, I prefer to thin enamels (Testors and Model Master) with naphtha (lighter fluid), which still dries fairly quickly (24-48 hours) but has more "flowing out" time than lacquer thinner. The major downside to naphtha is that paint thinned with it won't last more than a few days before it turns to jelly, so you don't ever want to mix up more at a time than you need right then. Otherwise, it's very nice stuff to work with.






Steel cuts flesh. Steel cuts bone. Steel does not cut steel. --Stephen Hunter, The 47th Samurai.

We will march on a road of bones. --Hunter S. Thompson.

Sat Cong!

...it turns to jelly? I only mix the amount of paint I'm about to use, so I have no leftover that will turn to jelly, but I have to wonder about one thing...when the paint dries, does it have the same dried characteristics as paint that was thinned with lacquer thinner? Can I apply decals the same way? Can I buff, if necessary?

Doesn't matter what you thin it with as the thinner evapourates off. Characteristics of the paint will always be the same.

Don't do gloss finishes that often but when I do I use less hot thinners like mineral spirits or Testors thinner, spray relatively close(you don't want it drying in transit), and use whatever psi works(usually between 10 and 20). I as well prefer to get a high gloss with a clear coat and I've never been able to do it without having to sand/buff the paint if just to remove dust particles etc.

Psi is something that is more personal preference, I know people who use extremely high psi and others that go extremely low and both work fine for them. I saw a guy who sprayed at 50 to 60 psi and his finishes were excellent and he said his brush never clogged, guess not.

that's good for how to get a nice gloss coat.

http://italianhorses.net/Tutorials/PerfectPaint/paint.htm

.....start with a 50-50 ratio. First, a light mist coat, followed by a bit heavier coat....at about 15 air pressure. Final coat at 70% thinner, about 10 a/p. All this said, you need to practice on some spare styrene sheet(s) to get the ratios and pressures right for YOU and your local conditions. Remember this.....gloss finishes are not nearly as "forgiving" as matts, so patience/practice is the call of the day.

Peace,

Bails

Andrew, as you can see from the above replys, painting is very subjective. What works for some people doesn't work for others. As a professional automotive painter for several years, 99% of what I painted required as glossy a finish as a painter could get. The glossier the last coat of paint, the less color sanding and buffing. Based on my experience and experimentation, I have translated painting full scale cars to painting models and here is what I have learned.

Lacquer thinner is an OK solvent to use, but is very aggressive chemically. I would never paint a glossy finish on bare plastic using lacquer thinner to thin the paint with. If you use lacquer thinner, be sure to use a primer, or preferably a primer sealer before painting the plastic. This will help prevent your wet, glossy coats of paint from attacking the plastic and "crazing" it. Sometimes I think that people paint bare plastic with enamels thinned with lacquer thinner and wonder where all the fuzz comes from that lands in the paint. Sometimes this fuzz may actually be the plastic crazing under the paint. I recommend a lacquer based primer or sealer. Tamiya surface primer out of a can or bottle (properly thinned) makes an excellent base for your gloss enamels. You can also use automotive touch up primer. With either, take the advice as some mentioned above. Put the first coat on light, and then build up until you have everything covered. Let that dry for a while to allow solvents to evaporate and then begin your color coats.

I agree that the final coat is the most important and needs to be glossy. But if paint is too thick, it can create film build and obscure detail. I like to use a lot of thin, wet coats. A lot of thin coats are better than one or 2 thick ones.

An altenative solvent that you can use in hobby enamels is Xylene. It is a less aggressive solvent than lacquer thinner and dries slower, but not as slow as mineral spirits. It is the ideal solvent for spraying enamel. It offers the best of both worlds: It dries fast, but slow enough that you can see your paint strokes melt into the previous stroke. That doesn't always happen with lacquer thinner. Lacquer thinner may cause the paint to dry so fast that the overlapping stroke won't melt in and it leaves a texture like orange peel. That then has to be buffed out to get a high gloss finish.

I usually use Xylene at a 1 to 1 ratio with paint. This may have to be varied if your paint is thicker or thinner. I usually shoot with an airbrush at about 20-25 psi. I have painted model car bodies black that were so shiney that you can see to comb your hair in them without buffing or polishing. Again as some have suggested, practice will make perfect.

I'm going to have to give that stuff a try. Sounds good!

I've sprayed a lot of lacquer-thinner thinned enamel onto bare (unprimed) styrene with no problems at all. Every once in a while I've had to strip one and then the plastic shows a very, very, very fine "etching" but nothing that won't be completely filled in and covered by the next coat of paint. In fact this "etching" is no worse than the natural as-molded surface finish of many kits.

Thanks for the tip on Xylene. Gonna try it!




Steel cuts flesh. Steel cuts bone. Steel does not cut steel. --Stephen Hunter, The 47th Samurai.

We will march on a road of bones. --Hunter S. Thompson.

Sat Cong!

Hi Snake, I'm glad you are gonna try my suggestion. I have converted one or 2 in our local IPMS club. Our President had to paint a 32 scale B-52 on commission and wanted to use Floquil Old Silver. He asked to borrow my Paasche Talon airbrush with the fan cap to cover more area faster. I told him to use Xylene for that big Buff. He was tickled to death with the results. He had to paint this thing in his garage in the middle of summer and it was HOT. I know if he would have used lacquer thinner (his normal thinner for enamels) he would have ended up with dry spots as hot as it was. He told me that it turned out great with a uniform natural metal finish. He considered using Alclad but the price of doing that big model in Alclad would have blown the budget.

n/t