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James Sontag and Akagi A6M2 ...Ha-wa-i Sakusen

April 21 2017 at 2:58 AM
David Aiken  (Login David_Aiken)
HyperScale Forums
from IP address 108.203.117.25

K. Osuo researched the Akagi Zeros for his MODEL ART "Shinjuwan Kogekitai" (Oct 1991).
AI-101 – PO1c Tadao Kimura
AI-102 – Lt. Saburo Shindo
AI-103 – Lt. Masanobu Ibusuki
AI-104 – PO3c Seiji Iseki
AI-105 – PO1c Kikue Otokuni
AI-106 – PO2c Shigenobu Takahara
AI-107 – PO Sueyoshi Osanai
AI-108 – F1c Sakae Mori
AI-109 – PO2c Tomikichi Maruta
AI-110 – PO1c Katsumi Tanaka
AI-111 - F1c Shinpei Sano
AI-112 – Lt Jg Shigehisa Yamamoto

AI-151 – PO1c Yoshio Iwaki
AI-152 – PO3c Juichiro Hanyu
AI-153 – PO1c Shinaji Iwama
AI-154 – PO1c Takeshi Hirano
AI-155 – Lt. Cmndr. Shigeru Itaya
AI-156 – PO2c Mitsumi Takasuka
AI-157 – PO1c Tetsuo Kikuchi
AI-158 – PO2c Masao Taniguchi


also seehttp://japanese-aviation.forumeiros.com/t37-25-pearl-harbor-raid-akagi-s-fighters


    
This message has been edited by David_Aiken from IP address 108.203.117.25 on Apr 21, 2017 4:48 AM


 
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Don McIntyre
(Login DDonSS3)
HyperScale Forums
75.129.170.51

Interesting…

April 21 2017, 8:44 AM 

Sixteen of the twenty were enlisted pilots.
Don McIntyre
Clarksville, TN


"The more I deal with people, the more I like my dog."

 
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James Sontag
(Login jsontag)
HyperScale Forums
71.41.136.212

Thank You David

April 21 2017, 11:54 AM 

Thank you so much David for the information and the link for the website. It is a lot more difficult finding out the tail numbers and pilots of the A6M's on the other carriers as well as the D3A's, and B5N's. Even more difficult is finding these out for the aircraft that took part in the Battle of Coral Sea.

James Sontag

 
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David Aiken
(Login David_Aiken)
HyperScale Forums
108.203.117.25

yep...so true

April 21 2017, 1:27 PM 

been at this (WITH several sensei who have interviewed vets} for FIFTY YEARS... are you ready to take over? Send me your e-mail to mine for unique stuff.
Cheers,
David Aiken

 
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James Sontag
(Login jsontag)
HyperScale Forums
71.41.136.212

Email Sent

April 21 2017, 1:47 PM 

Email sent...

 
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David Aiken
(Login David_Aiken)
HyperScale Forums
108.203.117.25

Warrant Officer effective Nov 42, not on 7 Dec 41

April 21 2017, 1:54 PM 

Hi James,
Your rank equals are correct

Japanese Officer ranks are the same for IJA and IJN. The point of difference is in the translation. If we speak of British terms then the translation is somewhat different than American terms. American terms are used for the following:

Taisho=*General*********=Admiral
Chujo*=*Lt General******=Vice-Admiral
Shosho=*Major General***=Rear Admiral

Taisa*=*Colonel*********=Captain
Chusa*=*Lt Colonel******=Commander
Shosa*=*Major***********=Lt Commander
Taii**=*Captain*********=Lieutenant
Chui**=*Lieutenant******=Lieutenant(JG)
Shoi**=*2nd Lt**********=Ensign

It becomes a problem to compare the enlisted ranks with American enlisted ranks (rates). There were also changes in the Japanese Naval enlisted ranks (rates) after select dates which add to the problems.

IJA Enlisted RANKS (with approximate equivalents)
Juni***= Warrant Officer
Socho**= Sergeant Major
Gunso**= Sergeant
Gocho**= Corporal
Heicho*= Lance Corporal (leading Private)
Jotohei= Superior Private
Ittohei= Private First Class
Nitohei= Private

IJN Enlisted Ranks (with approximate equivalents):

PRE-June 1941
Joto (Koku) Heiso**=**(Air) Chief Petty Officer 航空兵曹長
Itto (Koku) Heiso**=**(Air) Petty Officer First Class 一等航空兵曹
Nito (Koku) Heiso**=**(Air) PO2c ニ等航空兵曹
Santo (Koku) Heiso*=**(Air) PO3c 三等航空兵曹
Itto (Koku) Hei****=**(Air) Airman 1c 一等航空兵
Nito (Koku) Hei****=**(Air) Airman 2c ニ等航空兵
Santo (Koku) Hei***=**(Air) Airman 3c 三等航空兵

POST-June 1941
Joto (Hiko) Heiso**=**(Flight) Chief Petty Officer 飛行兵曹長
Itto (Hiko) Heiso**=**(Flight) PO1c 一等飛行兵曹
Nito (Hiko) Heiso**=**(Flight) PO2c ニ等飛行兵曹
Santo (Hiko) Heiso*=**(Flight) PO3c 三等飛行兵曹
Itto (Hiko) Hei****=**Flyer 1c 一等飛行兵
Nito (Hiko) Hei****=**Flyer 2c ニ等飛行兵
Santo (Hiko) Hei***=**Flyer 3c 三等飛行兵

AFTER November 1942, three changes:
the (Hiko) Heisocho = (Flight) Warrant Officer was placed above the CPO; and an (Hiko) Heicho = Assistant (Flight) Petty Officer and a Joto (Hiko) Hei = Chief Flyer REPLACED the Santo (Hiko) Heiso

The additional term "Koku" 航空 or "Hiko" 飛行 determines the aeronautical nature of the aviator job. This is "understood" in aeronautical texts and thus left out of many books.

Japanese Naval ratings are similar to US Navy ratings. A Japanese Seaman First Class, for example, has crossed anchors on his rating/rank badge, the Japanese Airman First Class has crossed aircraft, the Japanese Mechanic First Class has crossed wrenches, etc.

The range of NAVAL aviators IN COMBAT is (usually) "Flyer 1c" and above. Those lower ranks of "Flyer 2c", "Flyer 3c" are in training schools. Again usually, the top NAVAL flying officer "Hikotaicho"(on a CV) / “司令”(shirei )in a "Kokutai" (land unit) is "Lt Commander"; with the "Commander" slot going to a non-flying officer (most times of aviation experience) as "Hikocho". As the war progressed, several "Hikocho" positioned men were placed in combat flight "slots" as "Hikotaicho" or "shirei".

Of interest, the ground crews for the aircraft had the same rank system except for the word "Hiko"/"Koku" was replaced by "Seibi". The Itto (Seibi) Heiso also had crossed aircraft rank badge...but the crossed aircraft were "in profile", rather than like the Itto (Hiko) Heiso, which had top views of the crossed aircraft. The Seibi is on the right sleeve on the man on the left, the Hiko version on the other man.

Select errors creep into certain non-Japanese texts including "Sailor First Class" or "NAP 4th Class"...sailors swabbed decks and the incorrect "Naval Aviation Pilot" term seems to include non-pilots, and the NAP4c in these texts really refers to "Itto (Hiko) Hei" [Flyer First Class].

The US Navy had BOTH the Commissioned Warrant Officer (just below "Ensign") and the ENLISTED rate (rank) of Chief Petty Officer. Selection of WHICH US Navy term is used for the highest ENLISTED rate 航空兵曹長. "Heiso" 兵曹 is also used in the lower ENLISTED ranks of:
Itto (Hiko/Koku) Heiso...and even lower ranks. Thus 飛行兵曹長 is equal to the enlisted Chief Petty Officer, rather than the higher term "Warrant Officer".

 
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Ed Boll
(Login dr1ace)
HyperScale Forums
108.75.119.250

How many Survived the war ?

April 21 2017, 4:36 PM 

Just wondering, how many survived the entire war ?

 
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David Aiken
(Login David_Aiken)
HyperScale Forums
108.203.117.25

of the 765 airmen aboard the deckspotted planes

April 21 2017, 4:49 PM 

on the six carriers on 7 Dec 1941...only 150 were alive in 1945.

Of these, only 65 were alive in Dec 1991.

My current talley is that all but one still lives.

Kampai,
David Aiken

 
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David Aiken
(Login David_Aiken)
HyperScale Forums
108.203.117.25

oops: My current talley is that only one still lives.

April 22 2017, 12:26 AM 


 
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Don McIntyre
(Login DDonSS3)
HyperScale Forums
75.129.170.51

That's better odds than I'd have expected

April 22 2017, 9:00 AM 

If my math is correct, 43% survived the war.
Don McIntyre
Clarksville, TN


"The more I deal with people, the more I like my dog."

 
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David Aiken
(Login David_Aiken)
HyperScale Forums
108.203.117.25

Of 765 participants, 150 living in 1945 is 80.39% losses

April 22 2017, 10:49 AM 

HTH

 
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bobby in npt
(Login skankosis)
HyperScale Forums
71.161.227.47

Excellent research...

April 21 2017, 8:42 PM 

From the link..."AI-101 was flown by PO1c Tadao Kimura, a wingman of AI-102 - second wave. In 1974, he wrote that he flew AI-109, yet upon viewing quality prints of AI-101 he confirmed that he saw himself in the cockpit."

 
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