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Flying Tiger P-40 w. B/W underside?

January 12 2018 at 11:17 AM
Ryan B.  (Login Ryann1k2j)
HyperScale Forums
from IP address 50.0.72.76

About a decade ago, on de U-Chube, I watched a shortish film on the AVG (10-15 min.--in my memory) showing one of a formation of their Hawk 81s banking to reveal a black/white underside, similar to early war RAF Hurricanes, Gladiators, etc. The view was quite distinct, and I replayed it a few times to be certain. Now, thinking I might want to build it, I can't find the video or any online illustrations or mention of this aircraft. Can anyone point me in any direction toward this unique aircraft?

 
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Steven "Modeldad" Eisenman
(Login samodeldad)
HyperScale Forums
108.20.209.251

Is this what you remember...

January 12 2018, 11:23 AM 

Just dark.

Black_under_Wing

I've not come across any reference indicating that the underside would be B&W
"Another day older and deeper in debt"
Merle Travis.

 
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Ed Keene
(Login EdKeene)
HyperScale Forums
108.250.61.188

This would be a first.

January 12 2018, 11:28 AM 

It depends on the source of the film. I think some footage of RAF birds got mixed into some AVG footage. There was at least one AVG P-40 with Brit. roundels, so who knows? If it is true there should be some other source to confirm it and I know of none.

 
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Joseph
(Login jfgogan)
HyperScale Forums
71.186.153.158

it wasn't just dark...

January 12 2018, 12:06 PM 

I remember the same video, and the plane made a complete turn coming toward the camera and banking away from the camera - the color difference on the underside was there all the way through the maneuver and was not just dark or a shadow.

I don't have a photo hosting site, exactly, but I put two photos in a shared google photo folder... hopefully you can see the pics - if not I will email them to you.

copy and paste if necessary

https://photos.app.goo.gl/V0gelGkLg8y0sv2s1

 
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Anonymous
(Login humebates)
HyperScale Forums
72.193.62.154

Black wing AVG Tomahawk

January 12 2018, 1:29 PM 

Black_wing_AVG_Tomahawk.jpg

 
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Steven "Modeldad" Eisenman
(Login samodeldad)
HyperScale Forums
108.20.209.251

and the other wing looks like two colors of camouflage. Very poor images

January 12 2018, 1:36 PM 

not dispositive of anything.
"Another day older and deeper in debt"
Merle Travis.

 
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Anonymous
(Login humebates)
HyperScale Forums
72.193.62.154

it's a cliche but "it is what it is" ...intriguing and worth research

January 12 2018, 1:45 PM 

it's a cliche but "it is what it is" ...intriguing and worth research...and does mimic to a degree a known RAF underside seen on Tomahawks

 
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Steven "Modeldad" Eisenman
(Login samodeldad)
HyperScale Forums
108.20.209.251

or it only seems to be. two colors on one wing? Do we have pictures of B&W Tomahawks?

January 12 2018, 1:55 PM 

And the Hawks were painted in the US. Do we have any evidence they left the US in B&W undersides.

12592217_1706499822929340_3733446120082926534_n-1
"Another day older and deeper in debt"
Merle Travis.


    
This message has been edited by samodeldad from IP address 108.20.209.251 on Jan 12, 2018 2:01 PM


 
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Ron Cline
(Login roncline)
HyperScale Forums
73.241.68.66

Do we have photos of every Tomahawk ever built, and every paint job they ever carried?

January 13 2018, 12:28 AM 

Just because it hasn't been found in any known documentation doesn't mean it absolutely couldn't have been possible.

 
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George Oh
(Login George_Oh)
HyperScale Forums
121.215.182.140

Achtung - it that a Lysander

January 13 2018, 1:10 AM 

in the background?
George, out...............

 
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Steven "Modeldad" Eisenman
(Login samodeldad)
HyperScale Forums
108.20.209.251

*

January 12 2018, 1:55 PM 

"Another day older and deeper in debt"
Merle Travis.


    
This message has been edited by samodeldad from IP address 108.20.209.251 on Jan 12, 2018 2:01 PM


 
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Richard Connell
(Login raconnel)
HyperScale Forums
199.46.250.142

Now that's a vocabulary expander!

January 12 2018, 2:04 PM 

It's rare that I have to look up a word, but dispositive was a new one on me. Having done so, I quite agree.

Richard
I am but mad north-north-west: when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw. - Hamlet

 
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Joseph
(Login jfgogan)
HyperScale Forums
71.186.153.158

it's dispositive that it's not "just dark"

January 12 2018, 1:54 PM 

Thank you for posting that.

Clearly, it's not "just dark".

It may not be like the RAF one black wing, but it certainly is not all one shade of camouflage gray* either.

AND, it's clear, to me anyway, that the underside starboard wing is much darker than the rest of the fuselage or either horizontal tail plane in every angle the plane is in throughout the maneuver. IMO - BLACK.


* - I do NOT mean the color that has the specific name Camouflage Gray, or DuPont Gray or RAF Gray or any FS or AN or BS or prewar US or RAF military or civilian paint designation. I use the term camouflage gray as a generic term for some GRAY color used for CAMOUFLAGE.


    
This message has been edited by jfgogan from IP address 71.186.153.158 on Jan 12, 2018 2:01 PM


 
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Steven "Modeldad" Eisenman
(Login samodeldad)
HyperScale Forums
108.20.209.251

It is only proof that it is a very poor quality image under questionable lighting.

January 12 2018, 2:03 PM 

No evidence of a B&W underside. But I have a yellow Fw 190 to sell ya.
"Another day older and deeper in debt"
Merle Travis.

 
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Ron Cline
(Login roncline)
HyperScale Forums
73.241.68.66

It might not be black and white, but...

January 13 2018, 12:33 AM 

there's definitely two very different colors under that wing. Maybe it's paint, or maybe the one wing just has a huge mud splash on it, but there's something going on under there other than just poor image quality.

 
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BS_w
(Login BS_w)
HyperScale Forums
78.119.76.136

pics, better quality

January 12 2018, 3:05 PM 

If I remember, it's probably the number 99.(we can see 99 & 220 taxiing and taking off then in flight.)

Image hébergée par servimg.com

 
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Russ Hill
(Login RussHill)
HyperScale Forums
107.167.108.182

Considering all the cannibalization and repair of damaged

January 12 2018, 2:59 PM 

airframes that went on, I would have to wonder if a rework of some damaged wings wasn't repainted with some topside brown or green colors for lack of anything else at hand.

 
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Anonymous
(Login humebates)
HyperScale Forums
72.193.62.154

Could be.. or some kind of quick dirt local id "friendly" for ground

January 12 2018, 3:48 PM 

People forget that to paint something "unique" on the underside of an aircraft for quick easy ID of "friendly" for ground was not uncommon

The one black wing the RAF used for a while early in the war or invasion stripes was for fast easy ID of "friendly" for the ground

In the early war CBI when the Japanese dominated the air its not unlikely that ground troops might develop the habit of just shoot first at any aircraft assuming it was Japanese

So for the AVG that was a little informal and a do what "worked on the fly" types vs most military units

I would not be surprised they might just do quick dirt local id of "friendly" for the locals to tell them "don't shoot at the guy with the black wing (dammit!)"...

and you are not going to find a papertrail for some forgotten local quick dirt "American Ingenuity"

And again it is reminiscing of the one black wing the RAF use for quick ground ID in europe round the same time...

So why not copy if that what they needed ...

They could of seen it in the the same magazine photos they copy the famous "Sharkmouth" from



    
This message has been edited by humebates from IP address 72.193.62.154 on Jan 12, 2018 3:50 PM


 
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Ryan B.
(Login Ryann1k2j)
HyperScale Forums
50.0.72.76

That's the one! Thank you, gentlemen,

January 13 2018, 12:33 PM 

particularly for supplying the images and opinions. I'm pretty sure now it's not some holdover from the RAF, as the dark underside was on the port side of RAF a/c, instead of the starboard side, as here. Beyond that, Russ Hill's suggestion carries weight, though reproducing it as a model will have to wait until I can guess the colors.

 
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