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OK this goes against what I've learned, but are the facts true?

January 12 2018 at 3:18 PM

David O. Garcia  (Login DOchoaG)
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from IP address 146.184.0.114

Did the Russians shoot down many B-29s and was the kill ratio pretty much even in 1951 when Russia sent WWII aces to fly the Mig-15 against U.S aces?

https://www.rbth.com/blogs/continental_drift/2017/04/27/korean-war-how-mig-15-put-end-american-mastery-over-skies-751633

 
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Marin Ennis
(Login mfe59)
HyperScale Forums
73.230.111.127

B-29s over North Korea

January 12 2018, 4:40 PM 

The B-29s had a rough time with the MiG-15s. Someone may chime in on this but I recall reading B-29s were switched to night missions due to the loss rate.

As for the 1951 kill ratio it probably comes down to whom you talk to. The author of the Osprey title on MiG-15 Aces in the Korean War believes both sides overclaimed and the true numbers likely lie somewhere in the middle.


    
This message has been edited by mfe59 from IP address 73.230.111.127 on Jan 12, 2018 4:40 PM


 
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Josh G
(Login JetJockey71)
HyperScale Forums
110.142.215.8

The Osprey B-29s Korean War title is awesome

January 12 2018, 9:15 PM 


 
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Russ Hill
(Login RussHill)
HyperScale Forums
107.167.108.182

Considering that at one point the Russians claimed

January 12 2018, 9:19 PM 

their victories over the Sabre added up to just about the total number of F-86 aircraft that were in combat during the war, I think it safe to say that something was not kosher.

 
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Josh G
(Login JetJockey71)
HyperScale Forums
110.142.215.8

They also claimed a 18 of our RAAF Meteors in one year, even though only five Meteors

January 12 2018, 9:24 PM 

were lost to MiG-15s in the whole war

 
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Bryant
(Login 86Sabreboy1)
HyperScale Forums
70.234.202.127

Yes, B-29s did switch to night missions

January 13 2018, 8:12 AM 

My dad saw a pretty badly shot up B-29 that made it back to Kempo, K-14.

As for claims, it was not glory boy stuff for the US. Another pilot or gun camera film had to confirm the kill. On one mission my dad fired on a MiG from a high angle of attack but didn't think he got anything.

Later that day he bumped into Earl Brown who he was classmates with in Aviation Cadats. Earl was a Sabre pilot as well with the 336th FIS but also did the gun camera film analysis. He asked my dad, "Did you shoot today" My dad said yes but didn't think he hit anything. Earl said they found some confirmed hits on the MiG and that he should put in for a claim. So my dad did and got one confirmed claim as a result.

Understand this, getting a kill or making ace had a lot to do with squadron politics and mission rules as it did the pilot's ability to be a "hot stick". Many good young pilots ended up flying wing for older WWII veterans. As wing you never got to shoot. Some flew most if not all missions as a wing man. Further more some of the older pilots simply didn't have the good eye sight any more and many didn't understand the tactics of jets versus their previous aircraft.

My dad had 20-15 vision and could call out boggies way in front of their flight. However, the lead pilots couldn't see them. By the time they could the MiGs were flying right by them. To turn and engage wasn't going to do anything, the MiGs would be long gone. The key was to see them at a distance and start your engagement then,,,not wait and see them up close. By then it was simply too late. My dad was very frustrated at times that good bounces were completely botched by poor understanding of jet combat or simply not being able to see the enemy. Having rank and flying lead didn't always result in success.

Lastly, the book, "The Hunters" is a pretty accurate account of Sabre pilots in Korea. Many of the stories were true accounts and my Dad knows the real men and names. The movie is a far cry from the book and is just a Robert Mitchum movie, nothing more. Read the book, forget the movie.

 
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Andrew deeley
(Login deeley)
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81.147.122.198

Web site with info

January 12 2018, 7:37 PM 


 
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Josh G
(Login JetJockey71)
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110.142.215.8

This article is certainly biased and inaccurate. The MiG-15 was built to fight the B-29,

January 12 2018, 9:34 PM 

and this it did effectively over Korea, so you could say it did its job there. It wasn't built to fight the F-86, and F-86s surely downed more MiG-15s than vice-versa, but a good Russian pilot in a MiG-15 and a good US pilot in an F-86 were probably among the most evenly matched opponents in the history of air combat. Apparently the book Black Tuesday over Naamsi is a good record of the B-29 and MiG encounters and other Korean War air battles.

 
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Ted Dorfman
(Login dammodeus)
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73.153.12.37

I had always heard the Russian jet pilots...

January 13 2018, 12:20 AM 

were nearly completely controlled by ground controllers and weren't set up to be as free to engage on their own as this article states. Actually this piece sounds like an American air battle narrative, with the nationality changed! Except for running to a safe sanctuary in China.
Naturally the big, slow B-29s and their pre-jet era gunsighting computers were no match for the MiGs with their 37MM cannons, which is why the B-29s were moved to night missions only.

 
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Bryant
(Login 86Sabreboy1)
HyperScale Forums
70.234.202.127

Robinson "Robby" Risner's encounter on "Dog Fights" was with a Russian

January 13 2018, 7:55 AM 

I saw the History Channel's Dog Fight's episode that addresses Risner's encounter over Antung. I don't recall if the show mentions that the MiG pilot was Russian or not. However, I know for a fact that the pilot was Russian because my father flew in the 4th FIW, 336th FIS with Risner. When Risner became operations officer he assigned his F-86 "Ohio Mike" to my dad often. I've seen my dad's log book and know this to be true.

In any case Risner confirmed that he saw a pilot with red hair and goatee beard when the two flew along side each other. Risner had blown the MiG's canopy off already and the pilot's helmet along with it. He even shook his fist at Risner as they looked at each other.

As for radar control,,,both sides had rader capable of vectoring their pilots into potential engagements. The US held Chodo Island for most of the war and had radar to vector pilots accordingly.

 
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Ted Dorfman
(Login dammodeus)
HyperScale Forums
73.153.12.37

Fascinating info, thanks!

January 13 2018, 10:40 PM 


 
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Scott E. Jungen
(Login sjungen)
HyperScale Forums
64.7.172.157

It would have been nice...

January 13 2018, 12:22 AM 

...had they included pictures of MiG-15s at the top of the article. I believe those are MiG-17s.
Scott

 
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Mike Dobrzelecki
(Login PolMikeD)
HyperScale Forums
12.172.17.50

Only thing missing is Ensign Chechov saying, "Mig-15 engine was 'inwented' in Russia."

January 15 2018, 8:44 AM 



    
This message has been edited by PolMikeD from IP address 12.172.17.50 on Jan 15, 2018 8:45 AM


 
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