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The CRAP archive is permanently closed, and it ain't coming back, period.

January 12 2018 at 7:54 PM

Lynn  (Login lmritger)
HyperScale Forums
from IP address 108.39.120.24

Mark decided to simply whack it rather than putting up with constant sniping from people about photo theft and other such bullsh|t, and frankly, I don't blame him. What started out as an effort to help people was ultimately seen as some kind of glory hog exercise, and despite having spent hours upon hours organizing, researching, and cataloging photos in there to make research as simple as possible for visitors and never, not ONCE, did I claim any photos, even the hundreds which I posted myself... nor did I put his name or mine out there because this was never about ego, it was simply to try to make things easier for folks looking for information. I went through hours of research and labeling exercises to keep up with Mark's uploads and credit them as best I could, but with over 50,000 photos and more added almost daily, it's not something I could do full time.

At this point, it's better to just tear it down and walk away. I no longer have the time or patience to repeatedly explain the intent of the archive, nor does Mark. To those who were frequent visitors and expressed their appreciation, thank you... thanks most of all for understanding what it was we were trying to do. And to those who didn't support us or actively complained about the archive, for whatever reason - congratulations. You win. Be sure to collect your prizes at the door.

Lynn
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

 
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AuthorReply

Michael McMurtrey, Former Squad/Sig Editor
(Login ZergOvermind)
HyperScale Forums
76.185.11.91

Some people are always determined to screw things up for everybody …

January 12 2018, 8:01 PM 

… for their own petty, childish reasons. This is why we can't have nice things.

C.R.A.P. was a valuable resource. Thanks to you and Mark for trying.
Michael McMurtrey
IPMS-USA #1746
IPMS-Canada #1426
Carrollton, TX

If ignorance is bliss, there's a lot of blissful people out there!

 
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Don Ebding
(Login DoninCincy)
HyperScale Forums
208.102.178.26

This forum really needs a "Like" button... n/t

January 13 2018, 10:35 AM 


 
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Mark
(Login Mark_D_J_C)
HyperScale Forums
68.59.118.237

Am I missing something?

January 13 2018, 2:44 PM 

Maybe my recall is faulty, but from what I remember, the complaint was that photos were copied to the repository without permission or crediting the person who took the photos.

If that's correct, why is the complaint petty or childish? From what I remember, the complainant hadn't given up copyright, and I think his big problem was that he discovered the photos at the new source by accident. I think he wanted people to ask permission, which seems reasonable to me.

Or did I get something wrong? If so, I'll be happy to be corrected.


 
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Gary Fairfull
(Login G.Fairfull)
HyperScale Forums
137.186.32.62

Yes, you are missing something

January 13 2018, 9:42 PM 

No watermarks or copyright info was posted, if you don’t want to share don’t post it on the internet.

 
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Mark
(Login Mark_D_J_C)
HyperScale Forums
68.59.118.237

That is not correct. You acquire copyright upon creation, no watermarks needed.

January 14 2018, 7:15 AM 

Here's something from the Professional Photographers' Association (PPA):


“Copyright” describes the rights given to creators for their literary and artistic works.

But we often don’t consider copyright when we look at our family photos, or go to get them copied. Even though it is so easy to copy an image—with scanners, photo-quality printers, and copy stations—it is still illegal.

Things to remember about copyright:

Copyright is a property right.
Under the Federal Copyright Act of 1976, *photographs are protected by copyright from the moment of creation.*
Photographers have the *exclusive right to reproduce their photographs (right to control the making of copies).*
*Unless you have permission from the photographer, you can’t copy, distribute (no scanning and sending them to others), publicly display (no putting them online), or create derivative works from photographs.*"

http://www.ppa.com/content.cfm?ItemNumber=1720

Note it says nothing about putting a watermark or copyright symbol, Gary. That's because, as stated above, copyright attaches automatically.


And here's info from another site.


"Nobody wants to create great work and have it stolen. You deserve to be paid well for the photos you make, and the law thinks so too. That’s why your photos are automatically copyrighted the second you press the shutter release button on your camera. They have been ever since the Berne convention was adopted in 1988 (at least in the United States).

The Berne convention protects the right of the author without any need of a formal registration of copyright."

http://www.digital-photo-secrets.com/tip/555/do-i-have-to-copyright-my-photos/

It looks like CRAP should have asked permission before copying the photos.



 
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Larry Goodell
(Login ironeyes)
HyperScale Forums
71.203.128.77

I totally agree..........................nm

January 14 2018, 9:15 AM 

jg.

 
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Steven "Modeldad" Eisenman
(Login samodeldad)
HyperScale Forums
108.20.209.251

And you are missing everything. And wrong

January 14 2018, 10:18 AM 

The creation of an image automatically gives the creator a legal copyright. He can perfect it by filing with the government, but nto absolutely necessary. He could have put a copyright © on it, but again a formality.

If the images are used for any reason, and the copyright holder is known, or reasonably could be known, then either permission asked or credit given. With credit given, then the fair use doctrine can come into play (used for informational, historical, etc purposes without financial gain to user or loss to copyright holder).

The photographer had a absolute legal right to request permission be sought and credit given, and the right to request that they be removed.
"Another day older and deeper in debt"
Merle Travis.


    
This message has been edited by samodeldad from IP address 108.20.209.251 on Jan 14, 2018 10:20 AM


 
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Steven "Modeldad" Eisenman
(Login samodeldad)
HyperScale Forums
108.20.209.251

*

January 14 2018, 10:18 AM 

"Another day older and deeper in debt"
Merle Travis.


    
This message has been edited by samodeldad from IP address 108.20.209.251 on Jan 14, 2018 10:19 AM


 
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Mike Maben
(Login mmaben1)
HyperScale Forums
71.59.246.128

Sorry news ...

January 12 2018, 8:25 PM 


...thanks for your efforts (really).

At least now you'll have more time for your own life happy.gif

I just like airplanes.

 
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David O. Garcia
(Login DOchoaG)
HyperScale Forums
146.184.0.114

Well CRAP. I just found out about it a couple of weeks ago..

January 12 2018, 8:26 PM 

Oh well. There were some nice photography there from the 1940s.

 
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Pat Donahue
(Login pat9d)
HyperScale Forums
99.91.67.88

Lynn, THANK YOU and Mark for all your efforts. I

January 12 2018, 9:02 PM 

spent many an enjoyable hour just browsing or doing research for a anticipated build. Thank you both again.
I will never understand why aviation history/research (an by extension, our hobby) has so much ego-driven, pettiness determined that no one should be able to enjoy a resource even when an honest mistake has been made, or when they do not agree with a point of view.
Our loss indeed.


    
This message has been edited by pat9d from IP address 99.91.67.88 on Jan 12, 2018 9:02 PM


 
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Floyd S. Werner, Jr.
(Login FloydWerner)
HyperScale Forums
65.246.1.5

I'll never know CRAP

January 12 2018, 9:47 PM 

so what was CRAP? Guess I didn't know a good thing was happening.
Floyd

 
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Pat Donahue
(Login pat9d)
HyperScale Forums
99.91.67.88

Central Repository for Aircraft Photos loads of

January 12 2018, 10:21 PM 

A/C specific photos, air groups, Life archive photos, the whole nine yards. A well organized labor of love. Covered all types of A/C. 109s, Spits, P-40s Must have had 500 F6F photos alone.


    
This message has been edited by pat9d from IP address 99.91.67.88 on Jan 12, 2018 10:25 PM


 
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Ron Cline
(Login roncline)
HyperScale Forums
73.241.68.66

Another victim of today's society...

January 13 2018, 12:10 AM 

Just another sad example of how the whiners are taking over.

Some of my photos were (are) in the collection, and I whole heartedly supported their being freely shared with the masses, credited or not. Thank you Mark and Lynn for your efforts to bring this GREAT resource you provided for ALL of us to enjoy.

 
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Lynn
(Login lmritger)
HyperScale Forums
108.39.120.24

Ron, thanks for your kind comments and support...

January 13 2018, 7:10 AM 

You're a perfect example of someone whose pics were in some of the archive albums, pics which I hadn't gotten to yet but which I would have credited to you... I hadn't gotten to those albums yet. I really appreciate that you understand what we were trying to do here, though.

Cheers,

Lynn
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

 
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Ron Cline
(Login roncline)
HyperScale Forums
73.241.68.66

The way I see it Lynn...

January 14 2018, 1:00 AM 

...and I know I'm not alone in this viewpoint, is that if somebody's afraid of somebody else 'stealing' or using a photo of theirs that they had posted on the internet without asking for permission first, then they shouldn't put the photo on the internet in the first place. I've posted plenty of photos from my collection here and elsewhere; ones that I've taken myself, and ones that I've scanned from vintage prints that I've acquired from places like eBay. I still have loads of other old prints that I haven't posted yet; I just have to get my lazy butt to spend the time and effort to scan and post them. But whenever I do get around to it, you, Mark, and anybody else is welcome to use them; they aren't doing anybody any good by not being seen. If I get credit for a photo, fine; if not, it's not the end of the world. It's not like I'm going to be missing out on wheelbarrows of cash...

The only time I've really asked for any credit for sharing a photo is when I've shared them with somebody that might use them in a book, and they can credit it to being from my collection (I rarely, if ever, know the photographer's ID for the vintage prints, so I can't give due credit to them), and those photos I'll scan at a higher resolution than I would for general internet use. And if they feel like it they can send me a copy of the book when it's printed and I'll be happy!

 
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steven eisenman
(Login samodeldad)
HyperScale Forums
108.20.209.251

Big difference between copyrighted photos and a collection of odds and ends

January 14 2018, 3:44 PM 

He took the photos, he has a copyright, they are his property. The law basically requires that someone who’s uses them elsewhere ask permission or at least give copyright credit

Your collection has o such legal protection. You did not create your he images. You may even hold the actual print, no protection

That person was quite reasonable in his request.
"Another day older and deeper in debt"
Merle Travis.

 
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Ron Cline
(Login roncline)
HyperScale Forums
73.241.68.66

None of which changes the bottom line...

January 14 2018, 7:37 PM 

If you want to maintain absolute control over who can use any of your images or writings, don't put them on the internet, period.

Regarding my collection- I DO have photos I've taken myself that I've posted on the internet, and they're posted with free use for anybody that wants them. I don't post anything I want to keep all to myself.



    
This message has been edited by roncline from IP address 73.241.68.66 on Jan 14, 2018 7:43 PM


 
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Mark
(Login Mark_D_J_C)
HyperScale Forums
68.59.118.237

That's NOT the "bottom line."

January 15 2018, 7:01 AM 

The bottom line here is all this could have been avoided by asking permission and giving credit. And that's on the owners of the CRAP site, nobody else.

 
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