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Big respect for Celtic tonight, that was a top class result. According to Hills top bets, a lot of punters were on a Liverpool win tonight, so they have really proved a point to a lot of punters out there. So how would both teams do in the prem ? My view is, they would finish between 5th and 10th. I would imagine there will be very differing views on this, so what does ya think ?
This message has been edited by Mark_Hodson on Mar 21, 2003 8:50 AM
... that one should not draw conclusions based on one single event. Winnning over Liverpool (that is, by the way, a rather unstable side these days) may not imply in such optimistic conclusions...
Considering that Celtics / Rangers opposition in SPL is weak (mainly when compared to EPL sides) I am not sure about them being placed top 5. I would say around 10th (or lower..).
I really do not know why I am posting on this subject as I am not an expert in any of the two involved leagues, but I just felt impelled to do so.
Abraços.
PS: do not get me wrong, please. I am just exteriorizing my ideas. No offense to anyone.
I am glad that Mark has delighted you Will but i disagree.
I think they would be like Trigger 6th to 10th and that would be that as i dont think over a season they would be good enough to dislodge the top 5 that i feel is the top 5
Arsenal
Man Utd
Liverpool (Very poor season and well underpreformed)
Newcastle
Chelsea
A big reason for me would be the them and Us feeling if a miracle happened snd Celtic and Rangers were able to join our Premiership league and each game would be like a final for you each and every week as they wouldnt want to lose to the Scots and each team would give that little bit more!
I think they wouldnt be far off 5th but not quite!
I respect Mark's Views as do you obvioulsy but when all is said and done it is about opinion and we are talking hyperthetical and even thou u dont respect me at all it doesnt make me more or less wrong.
The Racing Post did a exercise early this season that showed based on stats/rating where the top 2 Scottish teams would finish in the Prem and they put them in the bottom half!
Obvioulsy like many i dont agree with there findings at all!
My eyes must be Deceiving me Z, It appears at first glance they you rate Liverpool higher than Celtic even after the Pumping we gave then last night ... Your opinion is Wrong!
willh dear dear me. why the need for you to try and provoke z. z is entitled to his opinion. i believe celtic would have a real chance of winning the epl. BUT so do liverpool next year. i thought there performance showed a lot more promise than recent matches. They need to attack more. ive always been a believe celtic would give everyone a run for there money in the epl and have been invovled with many an argument. It would certainly bring a good competion into the epl. but im all for tradition. however i believe it would be between
arsenal, man u, liverpool, newcastle, celtic and rangers for the title in no pareticular order.
Sorry if I upset you Stupot ... but he presented it to me on a Silver Plate, There was no way I was going to pass it up. I didn't say he wasn't entitled to his opinion ... just that it was wrong
But you should listen to Mark he knows what he is talking about, he is a figures man and evryone knows the capacity of Celtic Park and Ibrox far outstrips most of the premier league bar MAn Utd, once in the EPL we would make more money tha most clubs and attract better players than most. We would very soon at least one of us be in the top 3.
Liverpool only had 44,000 attendance for a top european tie, Celtic gets 60,000 for a home game against Partick Thistle.
How gallant do you want me to be i like many A Liverpool fan have taken it on the chin and said you were the better team!
My stmt that seems to have got your back up was purely hyperthetical and i was basing what i said over a complete season and one where i feel Liverpool will be preforming to there normal levels (2nd last season) against teams they know and regularly play.
Alot of what i said was based on the Them and Us theory i had said about above where you would be in a cup final every week because of the england - Scotland rivalry! That is all.
I am sorry i may have upset you but it wasnt meant
For some reason whatever i say is like a Red rag to a bull as far as you are concerned and others have stated the same.
I personally dont have a problem with you apart from you seem to enjoy going against me with whatever i say.
You seem to have an opinion on whatever i have to say and i am generally wrong and all i offer is an opinion right or wrong.
We even had 1 comment from you about a month ago where i had tipped some bets on a saturday and u said oh sticking with the odds on picks then Z.
Which didnt bother me but showed your feelings towards me when there were others like Faldo who did only massively odds on picks and even 1 saturday when Mark did all singles about 1.55 - 1.75 and you didnt say a word.
Just treat me like you do the rest which isnt to much to ask! Pleaseeeeeeeeeeee
Z
Jhim i dont need his email i was only speaking out aloud and saying what others have said and i am not looking for any trouble and infact i ahve said sorry if my commenst upset Will
I wont say anymore about it!
I was at the Newcastle - Barcelona game on Wednesday night and, from people I had spoken to beforehand, I was expecting a Great atmosphere .... something Similer to Celtic Park. It's well knows that The Newcastle fans are among the best in England. To be perfectally Honest The Atmosphere felt like one of my school boy games from years ago when compared to Parkhead.
I dont really have a major point .. just an observation.
Was Pulling your Chain Z, try not to be so easy!
Cheers for the Novel though
Could we try and not use the word 'feelings' when referring to each other, it makes the both of us sound like a couple of ass packers
Thanks for pulling me chain and yes i am easy on here when your name is in the frame (Silly me!). But you are so cocky and some of the stupid things you come out with the majority would think you meant them as you always seem to think you are right!
Also Jhim
'But you should listen to Mark he knows what he is talking about, he is a figures man and evryone'
LOL yes i can take it a hint !!!!!!!!!
Barcelona have one of the biggest stadia around and Can atract the best players but that doesnt seem to be enough!
How high a team can or cannot finish has nothing to do with the size of there stadium but it certainly helps but you need more than that like Barca!
Like we have said it is all HYPERTHETICAL So nobody is right or wrong !
And if people read what i had said in Triggers thread the Racing post did a write up on the question of where they felt Rangers/Celtic would finish in the league based on stats/Ratings and they reckoned based on these stats THE BOTTOM HALF!
LOL Not that i agree!
if you knew anything about Stadia in spain you would realise your argument has no weight, Barcelona are having a bad year but are still in the champions league, also they have a large stadium in a country where even teams like Sevilla capacity far outstrips liverpool!! Think about it Also think about how much success Barcelona has had compared to Celtic with that Stadium
won 5 out of 10 championships in Spain between 1989 and 1999.
The Nou Camp was built and completed in 1957, since 1955 barcelona are the only team in Europe to have qualified for the finals of uropean competition every single year and have won the Cup Winners Cup four times, the only team to do so, the list of league titles and Spanish cups is also very enviable so how it can be assessed their stadium has brought them little success when tey have watched players like Johan Cruyff and Ronaldo and Rivaldo and many other greats its beyond me how this conclusion was reached
Yes Will you have many times and i keep forgetting D'oh
Jhim no where from what i can see i have written have i said that Barca Stadium has brought them little success i dont base there previous success on there stadium anyway!
All i was trying to say was that it takes more than a Big Stadium and money to get success and its what happens on the pitch that counts and the manager you have!
This is a question/stmt where NOBODY can be right as it wont happen and until it does no-one can be proved right or wrong!
We could go on boring people all day with this and will have to agree to disagree!
For me the size of the Stadium doesnt insure success finacially yes but trophies no but it helps!
United have proved that this year and last spending 47 million on 2 players last season (Veron , RVN) and 30m (ferdinand) This season!
Nuff said!
Whatever you come back with i will not be replying at all as even i am bored now
I could post up a bunch of stats showing how stadium size brings in more money and fans and as a result those teams who enjoy that have been winning everything, and Man Utd is a prime example along with Bayern and Real Madrid , but your right it would be accurate and boring
I have been to the Barca stadium and it is a beauty but if want to put pics up then great!
I went when Lineker was there and saw him training and i bought the shirt also which was well nice!
And Jhim i have been ill all week and am obvioulsy not thinking straight and am obvioulsy wrong with all i have said and i am bowing down to your superiority on thsi matter! Sorry Jhim!
bit Z ..i said i was thinking of putting photos up of Barca stadium the boring bit was only added as the last 2 posts before it went up..i am part of no select group of which i see none on here anyway..i have no wish to take part in personal arguments i will leave that to those involved...i didn't realise thats they way you took me on here as being part of a select group..all i can say is i am not...
Pete !!
I just thought when you put the boring bit in your title that you were having a dig at me and backing up your mate Jhim.
I was obvioulsy wrong and as said i have been ill all week and maybe best place for me is back in bed with a gag put back on!
I will take my foot out of my mouth and again Pete i do really like you and am really sorry!
Also to Jhim also . Unfortunately i am like a bear with a sore head and letting my immaturities flow out
Generaly speaking, attendances have not much to do with income these days. Huge perventage of the money comes from broadcasting rights. For Barcelona it would be almost the same if they had a 50.000 seats stadium. Their main income is donations and TV rights. They want a big stadium however because they want to show off and because they have a lot of fans in Barcelona.
I think in your argue, you totally forgot something very important.
As a geographist, I may have something to say and since I know Britain well, it could be interesting.
What have all the clubs you mentioned, in common (I mean in European space). Barcelona, Real, Juventus, Milan, Arsenal, Manchester, Ajax, Bayern?
Only stadia, a lot of fans?
They come from huge urban conglomerations. Barcelona, Madrid, Muenchen, Milano, Torino, London, Manchester, Amsterdam... they are all cities with over million inhabitants, they are leading industrial, commercial, financial centres and also political centres.
Where would we put Glasgow?
Well, if you ask me, the situation England-Scotland is nearest to Spain-Catalunia. London-Glasgow equals Madrid-Barcelona. And I am sure it would be the same on footballing. Glasgow is an industrial and commercial centre of Scotland (not political, thou) and certainly capable of having at least one BIG team. Now, what would happen, if Celtic and Rangers get invitation to Premiership in say 3 years? It would be a mayor boost for both clubs and I think financially they would be able to get support form all Scotland, which would mean, they would be even better off then their English counterparts. More finances would bring better players, new contracts (TV, media) would be made and Glasgow giants would be able to become a mayor threat to English teams.
But, I am also sure, that in some years, one of them would need to became an eternal second (like Atletico in Madrid, City in Manchester, Munchen 1860 in Muenchen or Torino in Torino and Inter in Milano.
Or they would make one big Glasgowian team. Well, now I am already joking...
Anyways, the point is- we cant prove anything, but realisticly- Glasgow would be able to produce a premiership winner. Celtic or Rangers? Well that will we never find out, would we?
Celtic and Rangers would improve for playing in a more competitive league, but to become a force in the English Premiership would take a season or so.
But it is not hard to envisage with their revenue potential, being able to buy the best players and the stumbling block of joining an uncompetitive league would not be there anuy more.
Well, if Blackburn could make it, why not Celtic or Rangers. And do you really think there is no way Old Firm enters Premiership? I mean, we were late 80ties in Slovenia and still noone dreamed about being a sovereign country so quickly, but in a year or two we did it. So, sometimes, things are happening very quickly.
I have to disagree with the point Wrath made about Stadium siza not having much to do with income ..... surely it has an absolutely massive influence on incone. If Celtic/Newcastle/Barcelona sell out to 60,000 folk at £30 a piece they have just brought in 1.8 million pounds from one game ... now if these teams have 30 home games a season ... well ... you do the math.
If a team builds a bigger stadium they're not doing it to be nice to their fans, their doing it to make more money.
If teams like these received more money from selling tv rights than tickets over a season I would be very, very surprised.
