Mark and I have discussed the possibility of moving to a closed forum at the start of the forum and we are already clearing out a lot of memberships who are not posting anymore. Network54 are hiking their prices up and the biggest hit is the larger forums and those using much traffic, with our combined forums, not only this one we would be paying double after our current 6 month subscription and we cannot afford it without moving to being a subscription site and that we would never do. So our only option is to cut down on the amount of forums and the amount of traffic, so people woudl have to be members to read and post and the only stipulation woudl be that you must post say once a week in a discussion unless of course your on holiday or something else. I don't think this woudl change things much only make it better, more people woudl discuss and we would only get those genuinely interested taking part. But there woudl be not other regulations except the obvious no unecessary foul language, fighting or causing disruption. You will not be penalised for not being in profit or anything like that and not regulated on having to post picks, just simply join in. This improvemt will go along with better site pages and more concentrated analysis and articles from myself and Mark and hopefully Footy4 cast if he gets more time, and anyone else who woudl like to become a contributor to the site

At the moment I am dropping a whole hundreds of members where I cannot see them posting, if not posting then don't need posting rights. So if you used to post and cannot you will need to re apply. I am talking those who have not posted for a month or more.

Here is a small poll to see what you think. Only Members can vote, so if you want to vote become a member.

don't only just vote, but give also your opinion if you feel you wish to, all opinions are welcome. At the end of the day I can tell you both myself and Mark are voting yes, but its what you all want.

I voted "YES", but only on condition, that the forum is not closed for people to read it (so only members would ba able to post but all the people would be able to read.
I also plan to post as much as possible in the summer, I think a lot of football is going on then, too, so it will be interesting.

if we don't make it member only to read and post we have no way of tracking the input, at the end of the day people who are not posting but have very good information are now being encouraged to post it if they want ot read others opinions. Its not a big thing to ask, its not like we are asking for money, you just have to give your opinion wherever you can even if it is once a week, people don't have to go an learn english to agree with someone, it is not that difficult to post.

The other thing is that this forum with its current traffic could cost us as much as $1200 a year with the current amount of people just looking and not posting, under N54 new pricing. Would you be willing to donate to this price rise

this is just a question,

HOw many people would donate money voluntarily to keep the forum ad free, just out of curiosity, say $5 a year

I am the first one to donate ,let say 15usd, if you except credit cards!

that they make some way of forums visitors to be able to donate voluntarily to the cost of the forum, as little or as large as they like, anything from $1 or upwards anytime they want, will see what they say. I am not asking for handouts, but maybe some freinds of the forum woudl give a $1 a year , it would certainly help, and N54 are promising zero downtime under new price setup and more features like improved chat rooms, member email list, member messaging, sticky posts and much more.

IMO a closed forum makes only sense if it has just one main goal: PROFIT of (nearly) every member over a certain period

Well, I think, profit should be our goal, so that would be a positive reason.
Jhim, your words are sound. How many people do you think would be included in that kind of forum?
I would like to hope a lot and of different origin.
Because the most important is information from different parts of Europe.

I think closed forum is the best solution. So every member should post info and picks from their local leagues or from other leagues that they are interested in. Also discussions about betting in general and stuff like that could be more interesting.

All members should be active posters to stay in the forum and that would bring more devoted members which will take part in posting of picks, info, discussions etc.

At the moment we have around 1200 members but its not difficult to see a huge amount of those never post and many probably applied then disappeared as happens on the net all the time. I expect under a closed forum and once I have mailed all members of the changes, those returning woudl probably drop to hundreds, say between 300 and 500 after I keep badgering them

And many will be from different areas.

Omes I agree to a certain extent, but if people were put under regulation to help provide profit for evetyone you woudl lose those people who just want to post info from their country and not necessarily want to post picks. Like many other have mentioned this week this is a great forum for people cutting their teeth. There are other forums where restrictions are put on people which is pressure, not every forum has to be like that. As a punter you shoudl be using forums to help improve your ability to stand on your own feet and make profit, not always rely on other to make it for you, but that is only my opinion. I am assuming you are meaning that members must have a performance level unless I misunderstood, thats where I don't want this forum to go.

If you have to, move it. I am one of those who read and rarely post. Althought I often have something to say, I don't have time (picking my bets & evaluating other peoples opinions )
I think it won't be a problem for everyone to post something (useful) once a week.
About donation.. Maybe if you find some easy way (for those who are not betting online (yet)).

Keep up the good work and good luck in earning some money. My wishes also to other regular tipsters here, you know who you are

I voted for the closed forum, last saturday there wasnt a post for a couple of hours and you could see on the in live counter that there was plenty of people on the site.  Introducing a 1 post per week is a good idea and hopefully help everyone to better bet selections and discussions.

With the donation its a simple case of maybe joining Pay Pal and using them to pay for the forum, I use them anyway because i shop on E-Bay quite alot so i already have an account and you just log in and click pay! quite simple and very effective.  This site has helped people win a lot of money and i am sure people wouldnt object to keep the site a annoying banner free site!

 

I got the idea from looking at your new forum from proboards, its a good idea and I suggested it to N54 because although I like it having only one optino for $6.99 is limited, but still good, and they are cheaper than N54 also as they charge $6 for 20,000 page views instead of 50,000.

Good luck with yours, are you changing completely or just testing it??

We dont hit 50,000 yet a month so its ideal for us.

Yes we have changed over now, The downtime really annoyed me on a few saturdays ago its difficult to run a weekend competition if it keeps going down.  Also the the charges we going to be put up as well.  The new forum has great features and a lot easier to maintain.

 

I have with Network54, I know they are searching for new ISP again and they need to charge more for bandwidth to pay for more bandwidth, but they are going to be charging double for bigger users, and considering they haven't fulfilled any promises I don't know why poeple shoudl pay more yet. We are between 250000 and 500000 although at one time we did go over half a million in a month but only once I think. We are going to try setting up a test board with same one as you as an auxilliary and if N54 piss about anymore we will probably change to it, but very reluctantly. There are still many plus points to N54.

I love this forum! Any action from forum owners to make it better and to protect it is respectable!
cheers

it is likely the new sports forum will begin its life as a members only for posting and reading. This one shoudl be underway within the next week or two.

Agogon, appreciate your love for the forum

I Vote yes for a closed forum .One reason that i didn't post as much as wanted is that lot of this forum visitors were very rude (specially against the Greek punters ...they did their damage and they are gone...) We were posting over 50 people from Greece but now...

Anyway FFO IS GONNA LIVE

Mark , Jhim you can count to us

I am against it.Cloused forum would cut off meny good informations.According to my humble expirience,most of the best infos had come from members who rarly post.My opinnion is that traffic on cloused forums would decreased.

Half a year ago,i had opened a thread under the title "how should the ideal forum work".All i wanted was some discussion and freshy unanticipated news and not unjustifiable tips and picks.At the end I found my self disputing with people that i respected a lot as punters...I was dissappointed as well to see that this situation (no discussion on games,just plain picks)still goes on and on.
Although i don't like restrictions,if you believe that the closed forum will improve the situation,then please do proceed with the closed forum.I just hope that the closed forum will not force people to post picks where there is no betting value in it.
Long Live FFO!

Close the forum and you'll have the quality and not only the mass like now.

think the closed forum will work and maybe have a weekly thread that all members must contribute to such as a 'bet of the week thread' that requires the posting of a members strongest bet with a short(or large)analysis,odds ranging from 1.25 > 3.25 and bookmaker offering the odds, this would imo be a great thread for members who do not want to write paragraphs or are short of time, but still have the option for members to open other threads if wanting to be more in depth or do multiple picks(other than just the weekly one) and if this thread could be kept as a league table with maybe some sort of prize available.what i'm trying to say is that members can post or open up as many threads as they want but to continue to be a member the minimum contribution would be to the 'bet of the week thread'

the downside of a closed forum would maybe deter new members who can't get in to read what's goin on without joining up first,

hope these comments help.

I would be willing to chip in financially if it meant the forum would not close.

GL.

very good points exiled. I have emailed the owner of proboards to ask him why we shoudl use his service if we do change. The other thing they have is stickyposts so bet of the week post can stay at the top and have priority. The owner incredibly is a 20yr old student  which doesn't put me off and doesn't surprise me, our webspace provider is a freind of mine from my previous job and he is the same age, I worked with him when he was 19 and the boy could do anything and make it successful as long as it involved coputers or networks.

I actually don' think  things will change visitor wise really, I'll be surprised if it does, yes we will not se any of the traffic who just watch which we never see anyway, but those who really want to read and respect what we all do I think will come forward and contribute weekly to have option to read everytthing, its a small prioce to pay and still free

Only get to see the results instead of a button.

Personally, I think open forums are better as new people are always likely to find the forum, and join in with good info.

I'm always much more likely to reply on the "spur of the moment" if it's easy to do. If it becomes a long-winded process then I don't bother.

But I'm not fussed either way (as long as I get in the closed forum that is)


The Gooner
GOONERSGUIDE.COM
Your FREE Guide to Global Football Betting

Hello,
Jhim you must find some way to find money for this forum.You have baners,sponsors or you can take money from us.
This money you can take like mambership or true some betting games where you will have some small profit for forum.
Best regards
Mirko
Also if you can we can bet H2H on you forum but you must make software for this.

this is reasonable from you jhim ,closed forum is best opinion

Closed forums prevent new people to have access but posting in closed forums is making them more organized.
If there is an easy way to allow new people to be members if they want to,then it's ok to do it i think.

I agree with a closed forum and I further suggest we each contribute at least 20 Euro each year(sorry if that's too small,I'm just suggesting.(Personally I don't have a problem offering much more.)

This would push towards a more professional site who would post in a serious way under strict criteria.

One thing that would have to apply Jhim is that even members of the closed forum should be brought to reason by you when they use irony and counterproductive or hostile criticism and thus bring the worst of the criticised punters causing a general disruption.

I feel strongly about this that it should be made clear to some rude punters that such behaviour shouldn't be tolerated.Unfortunately even some old punters of the forum have this bahaviour.To suggest a basic rule I would say that the person who starts FIRST such behaviour should be banned from now on.

In all other aspects,I agree with your suggestions.

i`m for a closed forum too. i know i don`t post very often, but i`ll change this situaion.
quality and not quantity!

Closing the forum would be a good idea imho. Also like the stipulation of one post per week to remain a member.
Although it is never easy considering a charge for something that has been free for so long, I do think Mark and Jhim should consider it.
A small financial committment from each member could go towards the benefit of the whole forum and if it also makes a bit of money for Mark and Jhim, great.
They put a lot of time and energy into this site.
The link to the other site looks fine to me. People on the whole don't like change as we have our own little comfort zones, but we would soon get used to any new layout.
Good luck with it.

I am willing to go along with the closed forum idea. The only reservation I have about this type of forum is that the atmosphere of the place doesn't become too serious. I know all of us have the same objective- to bust the bookies- but please lets not get into a scenario where a person is put off posting because, like me they are only making say 5 - 10 bets a week and dont have the time to put in quite as much research into their picks as others.

actually i think no matter which forum you use is the same.

i can guarantee not every here is betting online.....maybe with their own bookies and bookies only have odds for more famous leagues as there are more live telecast in the asian countries.

so if tipsters here can discuss more on english premier league, italian serie a, spanish la liga and german soccer i think you will be able to an improvement to the forum.

anyway this is my personal view.

more to add if i think of any.....hehe

of course i do agree that non-famous leagues are usually the league for good money......hehe so keep posting......

I am against a closed forum. I think it would in time kill itself. The forum's liveblood is its new members. Without these the forum over time will become less & less used. New members bring new ideas. If the forum becomes closed then how do you attract new members. Word of mouth only goes so far...

I do have an alternative idea however ... don't know how it will go down. Why not keep the forum "open" for everyone to read as is now .. however have a "private members room". In other words general betting etc can be on the normal open forum ... however theres also a private room for special info. People either have to be posting on the main forum for so long in order to enter the private room or some other criteria for joining. In this way you still have new members attracted to FFO website but also probably posting more cos the like the idea of being accepted into the private room. I think this could work.

thepensioner

To leave the forum open for all to view and post, the running costs are going to escalate markedly in the future and eventually running this forum will become uneconomical.

The percentage of posters to viewers is very small, and although some people may argue that they have nothing worthwhile to say but enjoy reading the posts, these are the people that are driving up costs. 

The costs can be twofold, the cost of paying for increased page views and possibly driving down the price of any picks offered by successful posters.

By moving to a closed forum, the costs would be restricted, and the benefit of the forum would be there for those who left some information or posts in return. Let's make this clear, no-one would be removed for posting losing picks or being unprofitable. The fact that the trouble to post is taken is enough for Jhim and myself.

I believe the move to a closed forum, is financially a good move, and rewards those who take the trouble to post and thus will be unaffected whether the forum is open or closed. Closing the forum will only affect visitors that read posts, and do not post .... these type of visitors do not add quality to the forum in any sort of way.

I agree with the idea of a closed forum if this help to mantain this forum free. With my work in this months I haven't much time to write (actually I can stay a week without reading too), but I believe that this a great forum and if the idea of a closed one can be of any help in improving this site I agree, even if this is against my temporary condition.
I would like to thank you Jhim and Mark for their great work in this site and all the people who are contributing regularly with their thoughts and picks.

I was an active member until a few months ago and i enjoyed posting here,but the atmosphere got heavy sometime and i had to answer to rude people about things with very small importance for me.
I see you're worried about people not posting much but it's your fault too.I asked you to do something then but you ignored me,now you can see how many of us were annoyed by that kind of behaviour.
I don't like the idea of closed forum,and i think the idea of posting once a week is silly.If i don't want to post but want to be a member i will write a few meaningless lines every week and that's all.I think you must not force people to write you have to attract them.This attraction will be the high level and polite way of those who write here.
I hope the old good days come back but from what i read about your intentions i really doubt.

for opinions keep them coming, I am at work for the next 8 hours and will reply to all later, sorry about the time difference

Mark,

What you seem to be saying is that FFO's forum is being read by too many people (is too successful?) and so you want to restrict the audience ?

Are you trying to reduce the number of reads, or increase the number of posts? Or both? Why? Do they give you an effective "Credit" for posts vs reads ?

(Just trying to understand the real motive to help you find the best solution)

Anyway, depending on your hosting agreement you might want to take your board in-house. I did this for Cruiser's Board ( http://www.goonersguide.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi ) with a freeware version from Ikonboard.

I'm no web guru (HTML and a bit of Javascript is my limit) but I was able to install and configure it within a couple of hours and it does the job.

And it's FREE ... no bandwidth charge .. no rent ... no pop-ups.


Just a thought.

The Gooner
GOONERSGUIDE.COM
Your FREE Guide to Global Football Betting

I think that your idea is good.Closed forums are more and more importnat at the moment and they gather really good punters.

Bets regards,
DJ SOSNA

a closed forum is always good

i.m not a member of this forum that give so much picks

i hope i can give my best in that new forum

jhim do the right thing!!!

people can fly...but u better not try!!!!

what I am saying is that we have over 1500 members and on a good month 500,000 page views. But sometimes the number of posts to page views is very low indeed when expressed as a percentage.

The number of hard core posters probably numbers less than a 100 of those 1500, and the feeling is that why should the cost of hosting a forum be so high when at times there can be so little posting going on. Many are just reading, and a forum like this needs it to be a two way thing to survive ie. reading and posting.

If we had 1500 posters I am fairly sure that the page views would not be radically different but the information provided would be massively different and wide ranging, and the cost wholly more justifiable.

 

1. I am against a closed forum ,
2. you know that there are members who like to read posts , and would like to post but have problem with language( when I want to post , I spend 1 hour , to write a thread …..)
3. do you believe that all the posts help the members ? I don’t believe it ….
4. we have members in this forum , who post every day , and one thread has 120-150 messages from the member who wrote it and nobody else , does it help?
5. when I believe that I have something important to post , I do it , if I don’t have what can I do ?
but the reality is :all of us want to win to beat the bookes……..
6. a member has written before quality and not quantity , I am with him..
7. I agree that this forum is one the better , could be the best if all of us would help …..(i believe that agogon showtime was a good thread but only Jhim took part and Macoti .why ?
i am sure Mark and Jhim you will do the best for this forum ....

who are posting here from time to time.
I'm a member of a close forum (not Greek forum)where everyone there is under special rules.The place is perfect and the target it's only one...PROFIT.
Partners who don't copy paste the study of others.But they have an opinion and specialized in one or two championships and they are very well inform.
I vote in a close forum no matter if i will be a member or not.

I dont know its good or not that you closing this forum but i want to ask you.you said 'we are already clearing out a lot of memberships who are not posting anymore'(me as well)so after that if anyone want membership What they can do?

I wonder...if the situation calls for a fair analogy between posts and readings,shouldn't we try to post something that will bring reaction,thus further posts and discussion???if we have to deal with everyone's better calendar that has already decided on what and where to bet,how can we make a conversation out of that???
it is a twoway situation,action-reaction!

I am absolutely 100 percent in favour of it, people who post a lot (or want to do that) will find in this a great motivation, it makes the "feeling togetherness" bigger, since i more and more lately have the feeling there is sooo much visitors who just come to "take something" (look around for valuable tips) but who are not prepared "to add something" themselves and that kind of people we surely don't need here.

Phil

i think like Deba,TheGooner,ThePensioner...
but my vote isn't important.
paying membership or something else is acceptabillity,but i don't have credit card (like many members)
to beer or not to beer

I am in favour of a closed forum, but probably not 100% convinced, mainly because this will discourage any newcomers. However, if it was run as a trial during the Summer months, would this show whether it is likely to be successful or not.

If membership is closed and a financial contribution from member is required, would it be an idea to open an account at a bookie somewhere, and have a weekly members vote on a "best bet" and try to make enough profit out of this to cover the cost of running the forum ? Just an idea.

HBHoops, I was thinking exactly the same thing, I mean, we are tipsters, are good at it, why should not win some extra money for the site.
We should have open account at one or two bookies and Jhim and Mark would take care about placing bets.
We should run a kind of tournament as it already was a while ago, three tipsters should post 1 game each, than we would place THREE SINGLES (not a treble as it was) and those who fail would be replaced by others.
I think no way we would not make profit!!
So, JHim, Mark, Watthayathink!?!

there is no hidden agenda, and not sure what you mean by saying 'real motive' I am being perfectly honest about this thats why I started it as a discussion on the forum.

Firstly Network54 are going to double their prices for forums of our size after the current subscription. Its not just a case of thats just too much of a rise, they cannot justify it, they have not delivered on any of their promises of new features and less downtime, I see no reason why we shoudl pay a company for a product that breaks down and seldom improves. The N54 product has basically not changed in years and is being run by two people with no idea about customer relations or business in any way as far as I can see, its unstable, its future is uncertain and I really don't like them anymore but saw no alternative as good. Thats why we wanted to cut down to a closed forum because we woudl be paying double for a lot of people who do not enhance the forum with input, my thoughts were those who were not members but wanted to continue being a part of it woudl join if we went members only, we woudln't put restrictions on who could join or how many, not in any way, but we could cut off some of the excess and bring the costing back down.

The other reason is that the content and amount of people posting was going down and I think to go members only with an agreement people woudl make an effort to post woudl improve the amount of discussion we had, there is no reason for people with broken english to not want to post, its not difficult to find a few correct words to get your point across, and it would not be strict, I wouldn't kick someone out without mailing them first at least.

However since this string was created I got to know the board provider Mike used and thought it may be of some use, it has all the features this one has plus you can see if accounts are redundant and not posting etc so I posted a string on that. I mailed the owner of those boards and he said traffic and downtime woudl not be a problem they have forums getting 100,000 a day never mind a month so I think it is a very valid option.

The way I am thinking now by reading the suggestions of our own visitors, the other forum provider can produce all the types of things suggested. It has instant messageing for members, it has instant email to all members which we can use as a newsletter and it has the option to create seperate submission parts for competitions etc etc

I don't want to make my own board, we have tried a few different ones and the type of webspace we have doesn't support many and I like the idea of someone else fixing it if something goes wrong, its what I am used to and prefer it that way.

So its up to everyone, there are no 'real motives' just what has been stated in this string and the other one on the alternative. I have had it up to my eyeballs with N54 over 5 years, now wanting to double the price is ridiculous in my opinion, they even said on their own forum there is nowhere better to get forums at that price, now they are losing they the only thing they could brag about as many will be much cheaper now.

I know a few people have mentioned they will abide with what it takes to keep the forum free. The forum will always be free, I would never dream of asking anyone to subsidise what we already pay for, we make money from advertising that can more than cover it., I am not hiding that, but a doubling of the price by N54 takes a big whack out of the small amount we make. If we did move to the new board and there is a donation facility for visitord to make donations it would be very welcomed but under no circumstances EVER would I ask people to pay a subscription or membership fee, no no. And thats not just a no new taxes quote, I just wouldn't do it 

If the majority of people want to stay here and say so then that is what we will do and we will pay for it. It may be I am the forum owner but its as much all of yours as it is me and Marks to decide upon.

One suggestion I like - everybody to post their picks - no restrictions other than they keep a points profit. That would be a good test of who is really good tipsters, rather than some of the random picks that you sometimes get. I am not talking about detailed record keeping. But if more people kept a simple record of the picks they suggested it would be easier to track who really knows their stuff.

The prize could be - knowing that you are the best tipster on ffo for that season!

Nothing sinister was meant with the "real motive" phrase ... just trying to get to all the reasons in order to suggest the best approach.

e.g. If it's only costs that are important it is easy to set up your own free board that has no advertising ! (as mentioned)

However, it sounds like you've found a board provider that will allow you to do what you want at a much better price so that looks great !


The "posting" requirement is a bit different, as I think it may increase posts .. but if people feel forced to post ... will they be as good a quality as you already have ???

I'm up for whatever you go for ... just remember to send me the new URL to update my links when it's ready !


The Gooner
GOONERSGUIDE.COM
Your FREE Guide to Global Football Betting

the posting requirement at the moment is a suggestion open to everyones opinion including yours, and I said once a week as a suggestion. I can see the point of some people about closed forum, I mean all of us who are here who discuss and post and read each others posts, what benefit do we get from all the casual passers by who only read, would we even notice if they weren't there? If more and more people become less frequent in their posting do we end up with 1500 people a day reading a few of our thoughts?

You can see already just by the posting of the thread some people who have not posted for a while have posted again

making our own forum, we have the url www.fixedoddsforum.com but then found out we do not support stuff that forum software needs so it was a disappointing setback and we never bothered again, will probably end up using that URL as a seamless redirect for any new one or this one.

gooner I checked out their website and it seems very similar type of board to the PhBB one, its too disimilar to N54, Proboards is the only one that comes close to being like N54, especially the design aspect with header and footer so we can make it look exactly like our web pages, thanks for the link though.

i can see the arguments for a closed forum sure my only worry is that eventually the forum will die without a influx of new blood. say the forum closes is that like a trap door snapping shut and if you ain,t in you never will be. there surely must be a way of opening the door to new posters even if it is like for the first few weeks of the english footie season. maybe if we closed the forum we could set up one specific thread where we all had a obligation to post before midnight friday. this thread could then be copyed and pasted onto the web site for new or browsing surfers to look at. if we do what we are here for and make a profit on it it should attract plenty of hits.
i agree keep the forum free for thoose of us who actually take and active paticipation but not at the complete exlusion of every new vistor to FFO

All you will have to do is apply for membership and if you do not obide by the posting rule you will be thrown out i guess?

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding and perhaps yes closed is not a great word, its not closed to anyone, it just means you have to be a member to participate and you really need to participate, but anyone is welcome to be a member so it is no different really, all newbies and learners and experienced people are welcome, the onus is on participation not keeping people out

'cos I'm US at computer systems and all that !

BUT - it seems that you're saying,in essence,that you are being financially disadvantaged by network 54 for being TOO successful.I feel that somewhere between Gooner and Pens lies the sort of answer.This needs a hell of a lot of thought - an old motgage adviser of mine always gave me this advice before changing mortgages.Talk to your existing lender ! And lay it on the line ! They probably want to keep you,once you make them aware of what you commit to them and what your track record shows.Tell them of the alternatives hurling their services at your feet on a daily basis,on a far cheaper basis and how sorely tempted you are to take you biz elsewhere.Just - well,you have this nagging loyalty to N54 to give them another chance (all this,of course,whilst you are checking out every conceivable alternative).

Closed forums ? - well,if 'down-sizing' is what you want,then i think a closed forum will give you that !

Whether a smaller 'better-informed' forum makes a punter any richer ?? I'd need convincing.Does anyone really have concrete evidence of FREE forums/tipsters who are REGULARLY in profit ?

Postcards to..................mulv

There are many good punters on this forum.
But also many of them have stopped to post,think mostly because they were not willing to discuss with dilletants and because it is obvious that the quality of the threads has dropped with the raising of the membership-list.
And a closed forum should not have the ultimate target to make profit.
It would IMO be enough,if such a forum would produce discussions about betting and football on a high level.

Totally agree with Superfly about why many people have stopped posting

as far as laying it on the line with Network54, I have been doing this for three years, without going into all the boring details, they don't want the very large forums, they want the millions of smal paying ones who have forums about knitting and don't drag down their bandwidth. The amount of really large forums with N54 is quite small I reckon, but that small amount has a large impact on the bandwidth they pay for and apparently they blame this for the downtime they experience that we all complain about. Believe me I have complained until I am blue in the face and then resigned from the admin forum, their a shower of wankers and thats putting it mildly

First i have to say that my opinion about a closed forum is well known as i was the first to agree in another thread.
BUT after reading all these posts and thoughts (including yours) i have to say that i ' m confused.
What i mean is that i really can't realize what you expect from these changes.More posts?lower cost?or a better and more effective forum?
I talked in my last post about QUALITY and QUANTITY...and wondered about your priorities.I am still wondering...
May i do some questions to you?

are you satisfied with the level of the forum?
do you wonder why many experienced phunters,old members stoped posting in this forum?
do you believe that asking more posts from the members is what is only needed?

I suppose you remember another thread before a few months about how to make this forum better.There were some alerts from members about the future of this forum.My PERSONAL(and not only) opinion is that this forum have changed a lot in the past months in a wrong way.It sounds hard but i 'll be honest.Many members are betting and coming here only for fun.Of course that is not bad but it's a problem for others that betting is something more important for them.I 'm afraid that you didn't help on this way.Instead of trying to attract new experienced punters (or the old ones)you filled the forum with competitions.I don't think that competitions are bad but, so many???

There are no active members from many countries with major leauges like italy,germany,france,spain,portugal,austria and many more.There is no information flow from these countries and that is very important IMO.In the past we had (for example)vesuvio for italy,foxtrott for austria etc.This is a problem to work on...

I cannot understand why a member in a closed forum should post once a week or once a day or a month or what.Important is WHAT he posts,not how often he does.If there is someone that can give you great infos 5 or 10 times a year isn't better than someone that post nonsense everyday?And there are such guys in here!!!
So i would say that the criterias should be the quality of the posts,the behavior of the member and the last one the frequency of posts.

One other thing that i really can't realize is the obsession of some guys to proove their ability on betting using banks or yields etc.And i can see tipsters trying to do that providing plenty of picks everyday.Is there, really,anyone to believe that can make a profit placing many bets,everyday and on everything that his bookie offers?(well,that's an interesting thing ti discuss in another topic)The way of reasoning a tip is enough for someone (for me at least) to value the ability of the tipster.
So ,there could be a seperate place for those that likes to keep and show their record .Providing tips is an important part of a forum,but well analized picks not just making the forum Switzerland...

Finally i'd like to say as a conclusion that i think that making the forum closed could be a good step but not enough by itself.Work on its misandvantages is more important..

Some of my comments might be a little hard but i hope you will accept this post as constructive criticism.Be sure that i wouldn't spend an hour to type this for something that i don't care about

Good luck,whatever you decide...

I also think things are getting a little lost and its possibly the way I have used examples, its not really being understood what I was trying to say, the words people posting once a week is an example and its getting misconstrued. The idea is that a lot of the peopl who come in here are from countries we woudl like to see more info from because I can see who is applying and where they are from because of their email addresses, if the forum was member only to read and post with an encouragement for everyone to share their info then we would have what you are talking about. I am not setting hard and fast rules on this, I opened the string to get opinion on how they would feel of the forum being member only to read and post with the aim to get all memebrs to post not matter how little or how much they post.

But I have not time to read all you post and woudl like to reply further, unfortunately we are having a spate ov vandalism in my street lately and a rock was thrown through my window which cracked the far wall, I had to get the police round, and it may be I may not be online as regular in the next few days as we may look for another house and sell this, its pretty serious.

 

Later

 

JHim

I dont post as often as other people on the forum but really enjoy the competitions and reading what people put up regarding bets.So whatever Jhim and Mark decide is fine by me they seem to have done fine up till now and I'm sure they will head in the right direction.As for paying to be a member I would have no problem with that also.Sorry If I have repeated what anyone has said have not got time to read through them all.

Kenny

Hi Jhim!
As you know, I am not on the net as much as I used to.
Sometimes it may go weeks until I am back....
If this was the case in a "closed" forum, I would not be a member anymore?

Best Regards.

Aslov Hoff.

you are known to both myself and Jhim as a worthwhile contributor, and thus would always be welcome into a closed forum.

The people that we are trying to isolate for exclusion are those which have signed up for an account, have never posted but have probably read every post.

These people add no value to the forum in my opinion, although I am prepared to listen to any opposing view

One of those who haven't posted for a while, but the 'closed' option looks good. I think the forum was at its peak about a year ago when the posts were useful & informative and a large focus on football, but it seems to have faded. The use of mIRC chat has definately reduced a need to post or read the forum, so hopefully some sort of chatroom can be restored and changes in time for a new season.

I do not like the idea of a closed forum as it would not attract any (or many) new punters onto the forum. Any new members who might join would probably end up being accepted only after some 'vacancies' had arisen, and the only way they would get to know about this forum would be via an existing member - so this would then tend to lead to an elitist group.

for closed forum,not much of a poster but whatever Jhim and Mark decide it's okay.

Let us see, which parts of the football world are covered here, because info is the most important part of the forum apart of discussions.

We have:
Scandinavia (Aslov covers Norway and Hannu Finnland, apart of some temporary postings from the others)
We are missing postings from SWEDEN and DENMARK.

Low countries- we have Belgophil and Hobbit as very good tipsters there.

Britain- Mark and Jhim cover it briliantly and a lot of other tipsters from Britain who add info and start discussions.

FRANCE- well, I really cant understand this- are these people totally out or what?!?
Could Jhim give us number of members from that part of the world? I mean, they dont speak languages well, but still, there must be someone who could help with some info from time to time...


SPAIN, PORtUGAL- there used to be friends from Portugal quite active here, but they lost themselves, the same with Spain.

Alpine countries- we have temporary tipsters from Austria, especially in the winter, not from Switzerland.

GERMANY- also not well covered.

ITALY- other forums cover this region very well, I think I can give some good tips from there but it would be very nice to have an Italian tipster, too.

Eastern Europe- temporary we have good info from Ex-YU, Ucraine, Czech rep and others.

South America- we have Zoccer and some others from time to time.

It is not enough, perhaps Jhim and Mark could give some extra effort to wake up people from France and Spain especially. I think there is a lot of good people (dont underestimate those who are here, dont overestimate those who went!), we can all make a better forum. Perhaps, some people should be called advisers for different leagues officially? Then we would have influx from all over the footballing world.

Macoti

as i see you are right Mark and Jhim...
only 36 members from all of us (a big number) have voted ....Unbelievablehttp://www.network54.com/Realm/footballfixedodds/crap.gif
but can you tell me how will be the selection for the closedforum , if this will be your desicion?

Deba, you did not read the thread, did you?


There will be no selection, only those who did nothing at all (no posts at all), those will have to request again, otherwise no problems for the others, but we will all have to participate a bit more.

I'm not posting often, but this idea with closing this forum for specific number of poster is not quite good. The main thing for betting is good information. And sometimes it could happen that for example I or any non-often-posters know something that could be value for other members.

On the other side you (jhim & mark) could reorganize forum with some specific topics (by main leagues), topics with several often-posting-good-punters to avoid worthless threads and get more discipline.    

 

but No for a closed forum as I am on hobbit's opinion and you can't just post something once a week for the sake of posting. Perhaps more willingness from members and a better moderation of the forum to fulfill the expectations of people that were driven away from here would be the best solution. (Not that the work Jhim and Mark put in here isn't appreciated.On the contrary)

Hobbit actually lives in Denmark I think, he may answer questions if asked.?

macoti maybe you are right .....
''but we will all have to participate a bit more''(these are your words).......
if i haven't something important to post , what can i do ?i want but ....(in my country we say :how can I prove that I am not an elephant?).....
do you believe that threads in which , take part only the writter(s) help the members ?

ilike threads where we can all of us take part, with explanations and anything could help ....

(yes you are right again i didn;t read all the thread, large threads get me tired.....
i wish , members like you ''today''(too active and helpful) , to be here and next season ...

First of all, I think that closed or opened forum doesn't make much different.

I don't know why you come up with this closed forum idea. Don't get me wrong. I support this forum since I became this forum member. I want this forum to grow more and more in any particular ways. I would suggest you to re-map your target about this forum.

Ask yourself some of the following questions:

1. What do you really want from this forum?
2. What do you want this forum to be?
3. Do you want to make money from this forum?
4. Do you want visitor? Why?
5. Do you want accurate tipster? Why?
6. ...

Based on your above threads, I understand that money is a big issue for you. If I were you, I am going to create a link like "donation". Put your FFO address for people to send you a check if you don't accept credit card. I believe it would be a number of people send you their checks because they won the games through your forum.

I am not sure how do you charge for a banner ads. If I know how you charge it, exactly, I am happy to give you some ideas how to make profit from it. I know you are smarter than me. But I am sure there are some parts that you might not know.

You also can make money from newsletter. There are ways to make money for your web site if you think about it a bit more. Your web site is famous...have many visitors...why not...? Seems to me that you got lost about your web site targets.

Finally, I would suggest to keep this forum open, but carefully supervise and forum rules should be helpful. Just for example, you can rate all tipsters by giving stars....for instant, Jhim (5 stars member), it means his tips mostly accurate for people to follow...

However, I do wish you good luck in whatever your decision is.

Thanks

thanks for your opinion once again. Its not that money is a big issue, the only money issue we have is that Network54 are going to be putting their prices up and my main grip is I do not see why they should be given more money when they have delivered on none of their promises, none of the new features we were supposed to get like sticky posts and member emailing have never arrived, we still get downtime and they want more money top fix that but are giving no proof they will do. For me its a trust issue and I simply don't trust them, but its not really a financial problem. We don't need money from our visitors. This is why at the same time we put up alternative forum question as this other one to me looks better, gives us all we want and stuff network54 will never give, on the new forum for instance you can private message other members without having to put up a string called "FAO Jhim" etc, if the person is online they get it right away, if not they are alerted when they log on. Also it has email list so I can email all members at once.

The idea of a closed forum is to find out those whoe are really interested in being a member. and those willing to input. We don't need to put a limit on people saying you must post once a week, but on the new forum it shows when you became a member and how many posts you made, so if new members come in and never post for a month I think its safe to remove their membership, if they want to rejoin they can but must make more effort to keep it?

My wish for the forum is that I can come in on a day and look at for instance "Tuesday Soccer" and if I have no knowledge of the leagues I can see some opinion of someone from that country or at least someone with knowledge who could give me something to bet on, for example last month or so two members joined from hungary but we had no opinion on Hungary games this week? Just a loose example, I probably wouldn't have betted anyway, but there are leagues like Czech, Sweden, Slovakia, Slovenia which I can bet on but nobody says nothing? It may help to try and regenerate that although I am not trying to make it compulsary to post but at least see that people try to make an effort.

Just to explain the forum thing and page views again, with network54 we pay to keep the adverts off, they charge depending on the size of your site, we are roughly in the 300k to 500k page views per month and those prices were set to double, this is something I wouldn't be too aggrieved about if N54 were improving their product as a result but they are not and never really have done much over 5 years. If we move to the new one the prices also will be slightly higher than we pay now, but I believe the service is better, a small amount of speed may be lost but a whole bunch of VERY useful features will be gained.

This wekend I am going to read through all the suggestions again, I will be printing off everything in this thread, the why not posting anymore thread and the alternative forum thread and taking a good long look at it. Most of the things requested or suggested are all stuff we would agree with and have been trying to implement, some of the things N54 have been holding us up on. At the end of the day its still all up to you the visitors to decide which direction we move in, so far of all the members we have only 43 have voted on this and 75% are positive towards a closed forum.

Here are some things that are going to take place no matter what.......

1. Sports forum and Soccer forum will be separated.

2. Forum will become closed membership only forum unless after all interested members vote there is no longer a majority voting for it.

3. We will move to a new provider unless again all members swing the vote away from the new look forum. (only 12 have voted?)

4. highly likely we will set up a new mIRC chat as an internet page for the website.

Things that are undecided

1. How the forum should be used, wether people are obliged to post a certain amount or not, this is things still open for suggestion and discussion.

2. er cannae think of anything at the moment. as I have written o much my mind is wandering

Here as a reminder are some of the things we can have if we move to the new provider.

Sticky Posts
News and Article sections within forum
Voting polls in messages for members.
Member to member messaging
Forum Member email list
Hot post notification
Message editor with more than twice as many text features than N54
Personal Photos
Member rating i.e. newbie, junior, senior, grandmaster by number of posts etc..(not a big thing really)
Sports and Soccer forum on same page menu
LESS downtime (allegedly)

but i will go with what is judged the best way forward. 

Mine vote is also YES... I am with you Jhim...

GOOD LUCK...

But whatever happens I know that the forum will be safe in the hands of Jhim and Mark.

I checked out the new forum and I like the subtopics so that the football forum isn't cluttered up with NBA, Golf, Tennis etc.

Also I would like to see a single thread with peoples predictions without analysis, so that those people who do just post picks can do so in one thread and the rest of us can look down the list and see if everyone has picked the same game. (sheep betting statagy)

I have searched around a lot since the dimise of the Tony Q forum and this is probably the best on the internet. Long live football fixed odds!!


Best of luck to all,

Doogie