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  • The Jesus Proposal: Shelly and York
    • Kenneth Sublett (no login)
      Posted Mar 8, 2004 8:25 PM


      Rubel Shelly and John York claim that as Jesus Christ was the First Incarnation of God as WORD, CULTURAL CHANGES mean that the CHURCH is to be a Second Incarnation of the Word.

      Individuals cause division and therefore have NO RIGHT to read and understand the Word for themselves. The true meaning of MODERNISM which they hate seems to be that EVERYONE HAD A RIGHT TO READ THE BIBLE FOR THEMSELVES.
      Claiming to be scientists they think that the post-modern era demands that interpreting the Bible must be yanked back under the hands of SCHOLARS or the commune. Only the COMMUNITY (commune) has the right to interpret using the GROUP MIND. But, we have looked at enough SELF-PROMOTED scholars to understand what Jesus meant when He accused them of TAKING AWAY the key to knowledge. Quoting from their book:
        Rubel Shelly and John York: Our proposal to focus on Jesus means that Scripture is NO LONGER a set of proof-texts or a collection of facts or God's rulebook for human behavior. Scripture is the unfolding story of God acting both to create and to re-create. It is not an easy book to understand. It was NEVER intended as a document to [115] be INDIVIDUALLY read and interpreted--a sort~of correspondence course in salvation.
      Isn't it a bit childish to keep on repudiating God's right to regulate our faith and practice? Certainly there are rules: thou shalt not "steal the church house of widows." Thou shalt not call God a liar by rejecting His Living presence as the Word.
        Rubel Shelly and John York: Prior to the invention of the printing press, access to the content of Scripture was oral. For thousands of years it could only be heard and interpreted in the context of community. Yes, INDIVIDUALS could comment on Scripture, but those comments were always for the LARGER hearing of the community. Only after there was INDIVIDUAL access did there become an opportunity for an individual, isolated reading and interpretation that had no need or use for community.
      On the contrary, before movable type most of the great church theologians had written and published their works. Many men such as Heredotus hand copied his text and attended trade fairs and sold copies. Others continued to copy so that there was no lack of access. The church chained the Bible to the pulpit to keep it from getting stolen. The Gutenberg bible was completed in about 1455.
        Rubel Shelly and John York: Just as identity in Christ is always COMMUNITY identity, our reading of Scripture becomes a COMMUNITY READING as well. , While we still have access to reading as individuals, we stop asking, "What does this mean to me?"--as though there is such an isolated meaning. Instead we have a GROUP MENTALITY that asks, "What does this mean to US?" More importantly, we lay aside INDIVIDUAL interpretations precisely because they are inevitably argumentative and divisive. We GIVE UP the right of individual interpretation and take on the accountability of SHARED READING. This is not a pooling of collective ignorance. The Bible is full of stories from ancient and often quite alien cultural settings and belief systems, and we cannot ignore those differences. So we listen to the voices of scholarship just as we listen to the child who intuitively hears what God is saying in a particular story.
      When Jesus went out to preach He did not call the "community." When He spoke of GIVING He insisted that the "community" had nothing to do with it. When He spoke of prayer He insisted that worship in the NEW PLACE of the HUMAN SPIRIT must be done totally alone just as only ONE priest could enter into the Most Holy Place. Paul never promised CUMMUNING but of SCATTERING and persecution. Jesus died to remove the COMMUNITY from off our backs so that we can come to Him and REST from "anxiety producing religious rituals." Jesus defined His presence in the ekklesia, synagogue or SCHOOL OF CHRIST as involving two or three gathered in HIS name and not in the name of a performing preacher or MUSICA team used to HURT people and call it the Holy Spirit.

      Peter outlawed such interpretation just as Jesus repudiated the Doctors of the Law. Peter was an EYE-WITNESS and therefore Shelly and York cannot be latter day apostles to deliver the Word in the form of a COMMUNE taxing people Jesus died to free.

      Burden as CEREMONY and extra TAXES is guaranteed when the CHURCH takes on the tasks which belong to Caesar:
        Phoros (g5411) for'-os; from 5342; a load (as borne,) i.e. (fig.) a tax (prop. an individ. assessment on persons or property; whereas 5056 is usually a gen. toll on goods or travel): - tribute.

        Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. 2 Pet 1:12
        Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; 2 Pet 1:13
        Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me. 2 Pet 1:14
        Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things alway in remembrance. 2 Pet 1:15

        For we have NOT followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 2 Pet 1:16

        For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 2 Pet 1:17

        And this voice which came from heaven WE HEARD, when we were with him in the holy mount. 2 Pet 1:18

        We have also a MORE sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye TAKE HEED, as unto a LIGHT that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the DAY STAR arise in your hearts: 2 Pet 1:19

      We WORSHIP whatever we GIVE ATTENTION TO. People hate the Bible and warn of idolatry for trusting the ONCE DELIVERED WORD. However, to give heed to God we must give heed to His Word:
        Proserchomai (g4334) pros-er'-khom-ahee; from 4314 and 2064 (includ. its alt.); to approach, i.e. (lit.) come near, visit, or (fig.) worship, assent to: - (as soon as he) come (unto), come thereunto, consent, draw near, go (near, to, unto).
      WHY IS IT THAT WE SHOULD REJOICE IN SOLA SCRIPTURA? It is either the words of Lord Jesus Christ through an inspired Apostle or it is through a SELF-PROCLAIMED LATTER DAY APOSTLE. Peter speaking for Lord Jesus Christ gave NO ONE the right to INTERPRET the Word. The command of the Word is to "teach the Word as it has been taught" without trying to INJECT false dogma by claiming to be the SECOND INCARNATION. What happened the FIRST TIME?
        Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any PRIVATE INTERPRETATION. 2 Pet 1:20
      Because Peter said
        Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Peter 1:11
        Epilusis (g1955) ep-il'-oo-sis; from 1956; explanation, i.e. APPLICATION: - interpretation.
        Epiluo (g1956) ep-ee-loo'-o; from 1909 and 3089; to solve further, i.e. (fig.) to explain, decide: - determine, EXPOUND.

      What was Paul saying when he DEMANDED that the elders (as the pastor teachers) "teach that which has been taught" and "refute those who contradict it?" Do we need a COMMUNE with a GROUP MIND to explain what Peter meant?

      Peter made it very clear but the Phds for which there was no "certificate of need" have to turn the Bible upside down or go down in history as taking from the poor. There is NO community which can with a straight face claim that THE AUDIENCE is incompetent and the GROUP MIND--led by the GROUP LEADER--must INTERPRET the Bible which needs little interpretation unless you INTEND to repudiate Jesus as the Living Word who supplied the Written Word.

      Jesus outlawed the Doctors of the Law because they "took away the key to knowledge." Peter was given the keys but HE rejected the idea of continuing revelation. All of the rhetoricians, sOPHISts (serpents), singers, musicians and technikrats in the church fulfilled self-selected roles as SORCERERS. Revelation 18 reveals the fact that the harlot church will be LOADED DOWN with "ministers" pretending to fulfill these functions. Because they performed no useful role they were deemed PARASITES. Pharisees (false preachers), Scribe (false book writers) and Hypocrites (actors, musicians).

      The deviant musicians tried to "make a place for themselves in the mainstreem" even though the CHARISMATICS both repulsed and attracted people like a TRAIN WRECK.
        And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; Rev 18:22

        Mousikos (g3451) moo-sik-os'; from Moåusa , (a Muse); "musical", i.e. (as noun) a minstrel: - musician

      The "muses" were the "worship team" of Apollo, Abaddon or Apollyon . The LOCUSTS or "musical performers" in Legend had the power to PUT YOU TO SLEEP but they had the STING of a Scorpion. History is agreed that MUSIC stings you before you begin to FEEL SPIRITUAL.
        musica , ae, and musice- , e-s, f., = mousikê, the ART of music, music; acc. to the notions of the ancients, also every higher kind of artistic or scientific culture or pursuit: musicam Damone aut Aristoxeno tractante?

        Similar meaning: exegetice , es, f., = exêgêtikê, the art of interpretation, exegesis
        magice- , e-s, f., = magikê (sc. technê), the magic art, magic, SORCERY , medicinam magices factio

        Music has always produced FACTIONS or SECTARIANS:

        factio , o-nis, f. [id.] II. (Acc. to facio, II. B.; lit., a taking part or SIDING with any one; hence concr.) A company of persons associated or acting together, a class, order, SECT, faction, party (syn.: pars, partes, causa, rebellio, perduellio, seditio).

        B. In partic., a company of political adherents or partisans, a party, side, faction

        magia , ae, f., = mageia, the science of the MAGI, magic, sorcery

        mageia , hê, theology of the Magians, m. hê Zôroastrou Pl.Alc.1.122a .

        For the prophecy came not in OLD TIME by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Pet 1:21

        BUT there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you , who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that BOUGHT them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 Peter 2:1

      Prively means leads in aside, introduce surreptitiously. That means INFILTRATE and DIVERT.
      The meaning of the GOSPEL is FREE WATER OF THE WORD. Jesus bought us all. Therefore, anyone who peddles the free Word and denies its power DENIES the Lord that bought them. The Postmodern "scholars" totally deny that the Lord Jesus Christ had the POWER to purchase them with a PRICE and a MESSAGE of good news which could survive OUR culture. The Biblical facts can be perverted but they cannot be HAMMERED out of the Bible.

      Paul and peter laid down the MARK: you can tell FALSE TEACHERS if they refuse to teach the word "as it has been taught." Any modern sermonizing opens the door for the false teachers to come in: trained as PROPHETS, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS.

      You say, Whoa! This cannot be happening among OUR scholars. Sure, you just read any of the stuff and it is like a game to see who can pervert the Bible and history the most: the winner gets to be SCHOLAR OF THE YEAR and all of the little scholarettes WILL NOT get their degrees unless they join in the circle. Don't let them take you captive. Read the Word.

      Ken Sublett
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    ...........................THE BOOK

    What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

    There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

    This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

    Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
    Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

    Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

    It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

    At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

    They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

    The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

    At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

    Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

    The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

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    Here is the list of players;

    5 Godly Elders
    10 Not so Godly Elders
    120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
    2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
    2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
    Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
    Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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