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Original Message
  • Re: More, Brian, More!
    • Anonymous (no login)
      Posted Apr 29, 2005 3:18 PM

      Bill - you deleted your post with the bad analogy about the doctor. It's probabally for the best because it also contained conclusions about me which were nothing more than wild guesses.

      Ken - you notice I did not run nor did I place blame on anyone. I gave what I thought was an adequate answer. You wanted more. I want to know why and still do not have a decent answer as to what would be helpful about giving more details. You should apologize for your false assumptions.

      Also, my emotional health is just fine thank you. Where do you come up with mess like that? I do not "need" to spell it out. Is this why you think it would be helpful for me to give more details? Becaues it would help me and it would teach others? Surely you can do better than that.

      Anyhow, 1 out of 3 ain't bad. Maybe you'll be a little more careful about pigeonholing people next time.

      - I DO NOT believe that NOT using instruments is bad theology.
      - I DO believe that one can be saved w/o being baptized
      - I DO NOT currently believe that women should be the spiritual leaders of the church

      Now, let's add some more fuel to the fire :

      - The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is actual and personal. It does not happen only as you read the words of scripture. (note: I realize different cofCs differ in opinion on this)

      - The CENI hermenuetic is a flawed method of interpreting scripture.

      - CofC has a works based salvation - whether they admit it or not. God does his part and man does his part. The truth is that God does all of it. In the CofC, you have to follow the right pattern to be saved and "remain faithful" in order to keep your salvation.

      - The "remain faithful" part above encompasses non-essential requirements like worshipping without instruments, taking the Lord's supper every Sunday, not visiting other churches, etc. In some CofCs, it also includes no Sunday School, no kitchens, and a host of other things. And you don't even have to actually violate these things. Just having different opinions on them is enough to get you tossed out of the "true church" and declared reprobate.

      - Grace is not "try your best and let God do the rest" as I was taught. I have no best. God's work accomplishes everything.

      - In the CofC, all that is required to follow God's will is knowledge and willpower. Everything in scripture is plain to understand and all we have to do is do it. Hogwash.

      - The CofC proof-texts the scripture horribly. They tie together unrelated scriptures just because the have a common word in them. They do not take into account the context in which something is written. They have no concept of the difference between "descriptive" and "prescriptive".

      I could go on, but basically the CofCs are Pelagian in doctrine. If you are familiar with why Pelagianism was rejected then you are familiar with my objections to the CofC.

      NOTE THIS : I will try to clarify anything which you find unclear, but I will not get into a debate. If that sticks in your craw then so be it.

      Now, let me put some words in your mouth :

      - You're not really interested in learning from someone else. What you really want is more ammo to convince yourself that you hold the superior position.

      - You genuinely think that there are no valid theological reasons for leaving the CofC and don't think anyone can ever change your mind on this.

      - You also genuinely think that most people who leave the CofC do so based on their likes and dislikes rather than hard doctrinal reasons.

      - You have deluded yourself into thinking that following the right pattern is enough to get you to Heaven.

      Enough? I think so.
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    ...........................THE BOOK

    What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

    There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

    This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

    Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
    Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

    Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

    It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

    At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

    They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

    The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

    At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

    Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

    The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

    The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

    This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

    To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

    This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

    Here is the list of players;

    5 Godly Elders
    10 Not so Godly Elders
    120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
    2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
    2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
    Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
    Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

    Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

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