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  • Scientists: all postmoderns are science experts!
    • Ken Sublett (no login)
      Posted May 19, 2005 11:06 PM

      Because most have never read the entire Bible for meaning, it is easy to claim that God had no purpose of revealing divine doctrine without which mankind cannot have a relationship with God. We do not participate in the unfolding of the Constitution. However, we participle in enjoying the rights procured by the writing, blood and tears of the founders.

      You may need to brush up on the meaning of posmodernism which declares that certain knowledge left us when Heisenberg proposed his Uncertainty principle. That oozzing into the mind of philosophers came almost 70 years after science knew that some things can be known.

      For Rubel and John to question inspiration because of the Uncertainty Principle makes the claim that they understand the scientific implications SO WELL that they can apply them to the Bible.

      Rather than charge me with slander maybe I should charge you with being afflicted with something which allows you to read books and listen to sermons and NOT get the point:

      Furthermore, remember that the Jesus Proposal was preached and developed as sermons on company time before they were made available for prime time. Look back on page 30:
        Rubel Shelly John York: Every scene in that story has been set in some historical human context. [Is that profound or what?]

        Those cultural settings always have been changing and changeable.

        The age of technology, with its notion of our universe as one giant well-oiled machine, has been confronted with some new realities. One writer puts it this way:

      Rubel and John claim that "work out your own salvation" means that the church worked out their church and Bible problems. Because OUR culture changes, we GOTTA PARTNER WITH GOD to work out something for OUR CULTURE.

      Not even the Babylonians thought of the world as a well-oiled machine. The planets or Wandering Stars upset that view of an unchanging universe. This is why STARS are still worshiped because they WANDER as false prophets and most of the world would sacrifice their lives to be able to her FALSEHOOD.

      In the contemporaneous literature, Book of Enoch, Book of Jubilees and the Books of Adam and Even show that the FALLEN STARS were the angels led astray by Lucifer who came to earth as the HARP-PLAYING PROSTITUTE. Because they upset the equilibrium
        Rubel Shelly John York: With the development of quantum physics, we discovered a world that did not behave the way Newton said it should. It was impossible to pin down, with waves turning into particles and particles into waves. Which had mass one moment was pure energy the next, and none of it was predictable. p 30
      It is a fact that PHILOSOPHERS have changed the way we see facts or hallucinate that we see facts or MANUFACTURE the facts in our minds and then PROJECT them on our observations. I say that we can read the total history of the DOCTRINES Rubel would like to evaporate and know for certain what the Bible and all literature before OUR TIME makes clear about the changes intented to sow discord.

      Rubel and John undoubtedly do not know that a group of youngsters blew up a rocket, whipped it around the earth a few times, shot it out into space, met Mars just on time, landed the little Rover, roved over the planet, took pictures and microscopic pictures, did chemical analysis and sent it all back to out dazzled eyes. What they may have missed is that they did it all with NEWTON and didn't even think about quantum physics which would apply ONLY if you are trying to pin down an electron or traveling at the speed of Light. Therefore, Rubel and John are pretending to be scientists to gain credibility for saying, as they often do, there there is nothing certain. You may remember Rubel's seven ones?
        Steven Hawkins acknowledges two unavoidable limitations on man's quest for more scientific knowledge:

        1) the limitation of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle of quantum mechanics (the impossibility for the human observer to measure exactly both the position and the momentum of any quantum entity).

      This has NOTHING to do with anything Rubel Shelly and John York can OBSERVE or even have a minimal grasp of. This works at the sub-atomic level and has NOTHING to do with Newtonian laws. Things still fall DOWN and smoke still RISES from the their own consuming breath. A word written on paper will never dodge and weave. It will never become pure energy and will never wave unless it is wavering false prophets.
        Rubel Shelly John York: The very act of observing a particle CHANGED its behavior, which destroyed the whole notion of scientific OBJECTIVE. A scientist could not stand outside the world to watch it.

        The Same particles that were busy responding to each other responded to the watcher as well, revealing a world that was not made up of manageable things but of constantly changing relationships. It is no longer possible to think of the world as a machine.

      No. That is an untruth. It simply means that you cannot measure the position of a bowling ball by trying to find it in a dark room by throwing another bowling ball. When you hear the echo from the strike the old ball has MOVED on you. However, the bowling ball is still a bowling ball. Now, if you try that with sub-atomic particles you have the same problem. You can stack about a million atoms across a pin head. The electron is so tiny compared to the whole atom that it is beyond my ability to count.

      This has NOTHING to do above the sub-atomic particle level. A two thousand year old parchment has been ATTACKED by outside particles which changed the electrons in the ink. However, we can still read the document to say what it said to an Esssene. It is presumptious SCIENCE to use what happens in the almost infinitesimally small world of the atoms and MAKE IT SEEM that not even GOD can deliver His Word to us: just by LOOKING at the page we make it change.

      Only Doctors of the Law care about "further expounding" for a living and Paul outlawed further expounding by the term "private interpretation." The task of the pastor-teachers or vocational elders is to READ and "teach the Word as it has been taught" and leave the theology to religionists Doctors of the Law whom Jesus said "take away the key to knowledge."
        Consciousness and Reality

        Postmodern thought also dovetails neatly another feature of New Age Consciousness: The way consciousness can create or alter reality. In New Age religion, mental imaging can create new realities, not unlike the way affirmative postmodernists hope to create new realities.

        Although New Age thinkers have not thus far demonstrated the fascination with political power seen in postmodern circles, they also favor oppressed tribal peoples as more pure than western culture.

        Ross: Attacks by physicists and other scientists on the God of the Bible are not new. The Bible seems an affront to their intellectual prowess. This ancient "religious" document makes many pointed and challenging statements about cosmic origins. As Britain's Sir Fred Hoyle points out, "There is a good deal of cosmology in the Bible."

      Lynn Anderson and his old SHEPHERDING scheme promotes this IMAGING. John and Rubel have a take on that too. We are to give up thinking in a linear sequence as in reading the Word and focus on manufacturing IMAGES and VISIONS.
        Rubel Shelly John York: What does any of that say about the future of denominations and hair-splitting divisions in the church In the world of institutional church--where the church was viewed as a giant machine--the pursuit of a "better machine" seemed to make sense.

        Page 31: But what if the church is not a machine? What if objective truth isn't so scientifically objective at all? What if the goal is not to have all of the right answers to the Bible trivia questions? What if the goal is NOT to be doctrinally sound? What if, in a relational model, people once again focus on the Christ instead of each group's particular set of proof texts and practices? What if all that looks so random actually is relational?

      I say they played SCIENTISTS, got their facts all wrong and then APPLIED their proof text to question whether we should worry about doctrine? I hear you threatening rather than seeking.

      I will try to read you some more Rubel about keeping the questioning and discussion in the COMMUNITY which really means COMMUNE.

      Ken
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    ...........................THE BOOK

    What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


    There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

    This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

    Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
    Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

    Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

    It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

    At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

    They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

    The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

    At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

    Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

    The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

    The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

    This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

    To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

    This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

    Here is the list of players;

    5 Godly Elders
    10 Not so Godly Elders
    120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
    2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
    2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
    Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
    Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
     

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