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  • Re: Did I misunderstand this declaration in your earlier post?
    • Anonymous (no login)
      Posted Jun 19, 2005 5:27 AM


      If people are leaving your church, then it is a very good idea to ask questions of people who have left. It is also a good idea to patiently listen to what they have to say and treat them, and the information they offer you, with respect. It is an even better idea to reflect on what people have to say and then ask yourself some tough questions. The questions you ask of yourself are much more valuable than information you can gain from other people.

      If, because I was never baptized in the COC, you do not consider my opinion valid, then you will be faced with more people leaving your church and more changes in your future. If you only want to discuss doctrinal matters, then once again expect more people to leave and more changes in your future. Are you only interested in reasons? One’s experience goes well below that surface. Are you interested in going below the surface of what you are faced with? I will not wrap my experience in or opinion of the COC in pretty paper and stick a bow on it so as not to offend you.

      I represent thousands and thousands of people who grew up in the COC feeling like they had no say in regard to their spiritual lives. I had no choice in what type of church I could attend. Church services were mandatory for me. I did not choose to go to a COC school, or to attend COC Bible class and chapel every day while at school. Questioning was forbidden. Attending services of another faith was forbidden. Making friends with children outside of the COC was discouraged. That is a lot of control. I did attended services at other COC congregations and they all seemed to be about the same. All of my COC classmates lived under the same level of control that I did.

      Do I hate the COC? No! What I did hate were the experiences I had within the COC. One of the people I love the dearest in my life is a man who was, and still is, an elder in the COC that I grew up in. He has never questioned the decisions I have made in my life. He has always offered me unconditional love and treated me with a great deal of affection. His example has always been an inspiration to me. Because of his work that congregation has made some very positive changes. But he was only one man in my experience, and it did not give me the balance or shelter I needed as a child. I think a lot of people within the COC could learn a lot from him, especially about his demeanor and way of approaching and relating with people. The members within my mother’s church look after her and I love them for that because 2000 miles separate us. They helped take care of my father when he was dying from cancer, and were very supportive of me and the rest of my family after he died. How could I possibly hate that?

      Anger is not hatred and should not be mistaken for hatred. I am angry about what I was subjected to as a child. And I am angry that religion is a wedge issue that prevents people from having meaningful relationships when points of view are different. A few years after I graduated from my COC high school, I was hired by the school to produce some marketing materials for them. I worked with one of my former teachers on the project. Although she was one of my favorite teachers when I attended there, I found myself at one point giving her a piece of my mind about the way I, and others, were treated by other teachers and members of administration when we were students. She was shocked, but responded that they had made a lot of changes. The changes, she said, were made because too many children were committing suicide. It took dead children before they were willing to listen. I knew it would come to that.

      As for my last post and my response to Dr. Crump, I treated him the same way I would treat anyone who walked into my house uninvited and started trashing the place. I did not offer up personal information so that it could be twisted into a pretzel and trampled, and I will not tolerate it. There is nothing personal or hateful about that. No means no. It does not mean proceed if you are sure you know what is best for me. I’m not the only person who left the COC feeling spiritually violated, and I was never even a member. If that reason for departure is acceptable to you, then stay the course, continue to talk, and refuse to hear. I certainly have nothing more to offer you.

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    ...........................THE BOOK

    What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

    There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

    This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

    Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
    Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

    Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

    It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

    At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

    They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

    The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

    At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

    Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

    The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

    The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

    This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

    To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

    This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

    Here is the list of players;

    5 Godly Elders
    10 Not so Godly Elders
    120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
    2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
    2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
    Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
    Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

    Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

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