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  • They also lie about CLEMENT and EVERYONE ELSE.
    • Ken Sublett (no login)
      Posted Mar 5, 2006 11:02 PM

      Chris, I have moved my comments down: you notice that the responses slowly slide off to the right side. My comments will always be keyed to my FIRST response. I don't intend to be nasty (may be congenital) but I think you don't grasp the evil which has been deliberately poured out on the heads of peaceable OWNERS and life members of many churches. All of the evil is based 100% of being terminally ignorant about MUSIC or they are terminally evil. Based on the whole Bible using music as the MARK of people who try to shut God's mouth and the end-time repeat in Revelation 18 I think they are terminally evil (maybe ignorant also). Since people love to play GOTCHA by using well-distrubuted lies I just don't have it in me to be nice: time is short.
        Chris teaching Clement of Alexandria (Paedag. ii, 4);

        "The psalm is a melodious and sober blessing."

        Clement of Alexandria wrote about 200 A. D. In The Instructor he calls musical instruments "licentious and mischievous. " He then relates to us that he no longer employed these ancient instruments. But he concludes by saying, "And even if you wish to sing and play to the harp or lyre, there is no blame. "

      Here is a link to the TRUE TRUTH from Pedagogue II:

      http://www.piney.com/FathClPed2.html

      If ANYONE tells you that ANYONE in all of church history said ANYTHING to give aid and comfort to making music which is never more than ENTERTAINMENT and "two or three removes from truth" then tell them that Ken Sublett says they are a bald face lier. They MUST be aware that they are lying and I don't have the time or energy left (after the attack of the musicators) to be nice to people who are lumped in hell with "the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters." And don't tell me that Jesus gave them any slack.

      Chapter IV.-How to Conduct Ourselves at Feasts.

      Let revelry keep away from our rational entertainments, and foolish vigils, too, that revel in intemperance. For revelry is an inebriating pipe, the chain of an amatory bridge, that is, of sorrow. And let love, and intoxication, and senseless passions, be removed from our choir. Burlesque singing is the boon companion of drunkenness. A night spent over drink invites drunkenness, rouses lust, and is audacious in deeds of shame.

      You may remember that the Tulsa Workshop, the Jubilee and the church you may intend the theme is the NEW WINESKIN. The proposal was to make worship enthusiastic. Old Philo coined that one it reads Enthus O mania which is the MADNESS all music INTENDED to inject into "worship." Therefore, the proposal--being ignorant of Paul--is to GET DRUNK on enthusiasm and this will LEAD you into the presence of the "gods." Not only is the present MUSICAL thrust based on ignorance, the whole theme of a PROFESSIONAL musician leading WORSHIP is a reversion to rank paganism John prophesied in Revelation 18. When that happens, 18:21 God PUTS OUT OUR LAMPS and ignorance will NEVER let you retreat.

      For if people occupy their time with pipes, and psalteries, and choirs, and dances, and Egyptian clapping of hands, and such disorderly frivolities,
        they become quite immodest and intractable, beat on cymbals and drums, and make a noise on instruments of delusion ; for plainly such a banquet, as seems to me,

        is a theatre of drunkenness . For the apostle decrees that, "putting off the works of darkness, we should put on the armour of light, walking honestly as in the day, not spending our time in rioting and drunkenness, in chambering and wantonness."
      Let the pipe be resigned to the shepherds, and the flute to the superstitious who are engrossed in idolatry. For, in truth, such instruments are to be banished from the temperate banquet, being more suitable to beasts than men, and the more irrational portion of mankind.


      However, Clement, like EVERYONE allegorized or treated POEMS as POETIC and never as a legalistic PATTERNISM for doing EKKLESIA or SYNAGOGUE or School of the Bible which had NONE Of the rituals of the modern church named after CIRCE the holy whore.

      AFTER CONDEMNING LITERAL MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS YOUR QUOTATION IS AN ALLEGORICAL UNDERSTANDING why would he follow up by saying it's OK TO PLAY HARPS AND LYRES "IN CHURCH?" That is ASSUREDLY the implication the false teachers want you to believe.

      THE Harps of GOD are the INSTRUMENTS of voice which God gave us.

      In the present instance He is a GUEST with us. For the apostle adds again, "Teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, in psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your heart to God." And again, "Whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and His Father." This is our thankful revelry.
        And even if you wish to SING and PLAY to the HARP or LYRE, there is no blame.
        HERE IS THE WAY YOU DO IT!

        Thou shalt imitate the righteous Hebrew king in his thanksgiving to God. "Rejoice in the Lord, ye righteous; praise is comely to the upright," says the prophecy.

        "Confess to the Lord on the harp; play to Him on the psaltery of ten strings. Sing to Him a new song."


        And does not the ten-stringed psaltery indicate the Word Jesus, who is manifested by the element of the decad?

        And as it is befitting, BEFORE PARTAKING OF FOODthat we should bless the Creator of all; so also in drinking it is suitable to praise Him on partaking of His creatures. For the psalm is a melodious and sober blessing. The apostle calls the psalm "a spiritual song."
      So, not even in "FELLOWSHIP MEALS" would the word PSALLO permit anything which could not be plucked WITH THE FINGERS and NOT WITH A PLECTRUM. Clement goes beyond and defines the harps of God as the WORD of God.

      Paul defined and everyone grasped that the RESOURCE for speaking one to another was "THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN'" which he defines as "SCRIPTURE." What about SCRIPTURE is so hard to grasp that people can let an effeminate "worship leader" lead the silly, erotic praise songs. And speaking of church as GIRLISH GIGGLE TIME with stand up comedians, Clement has something to say:
        On children and women wine "Commands both to laugh luxuriously and to dance," changing effeminate manners to softness. We must consider, too, how consequently freedom of speech leads impropriety on to filthy speaking.

        "And he uttered a word which had been better unsaid."

      Melodious literally attaches to the LIMBS which tend to move in step with the chants. A literal melody (which lacked tunefulness) might consiste of 3 or 5 notes which were the NORMAL INFLECTIONS of speech CHANTED. MELODY is not related to HARMONY. You are using proof for MELODY and making it into complex harmony INTENDED to shut down the mind and entertain them.
        Euripides, Iphigenia in Tauris Chorus

        Halcyon bird, you that sing your fate as a lament [1090] beside the rocky ridges of the sea, a cry easily understood by the wise, that you are always chanting for your husband; I, wingless bird that I am, compare [1095] my laments with yours, in my longing for the festivals of Hellas, and for Artemis of childbirth, who dwells beside the Cynthian mountain and the palm with delicate leaves [1100] and the well-grown laurel and the holy shoot of gray-green olive, Leto's dear child, and the lake that rolls about its ripples, where the melodious swan [1105] serves the Muses.

      I will keep posting but I can prove to you that ALL of the "proof texts" used by people judgmentally condemning people for NOT joining in and NOT remaining when the singy-clappy people do "body worship" are ALWAYS WRONG. There is not a jot or tittle of support nor is there a jot or tittle in the Bible which does not make it a MARK.
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    ...........................THE BOOK

    What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


    There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

    This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

    Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
    Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

    Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

    It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

    At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

    They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

    The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

    At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

    Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

    The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

    The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

    This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

    To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

    This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

    Here is the list of players;

    5 Godly Elders
    10 Not so Godly Elders
    120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
    2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
    2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
    Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
    Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
     

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