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  • Don't ride the HORSE in church!
    • Ken Sublett (no login)
      Posted Mar 16, 2006 1:36 PM

      There is NO literature where PSALLO means "play the harp." You PULL a string ONLY WITH YOUR FINGERS and NOT with a plectrum. Guitar picks and drums and organs and flutes are SPECIFICIALLY EXCLUDED by the definition of PSALLO.

      Lucian in Parasites wrote "It is impossible to pipe without a pipe or to PSALLEIN without a lyre or to ride without a horse." (Approx 160AD)

      Ken: He DOES NO say that a PSALM demands an INSTRUMENT. He said: you cannot PLUCK unless you have something to PLUCK.

      Lucian simply means that one cannot psallein without a musical instrument! IOW, no instrument, no psallein.

      Psallein is NOT psallo: Psallein MEANS to PLAY A HARP or Lyre. You cannot PLAY a lyre WITHOUT a lyre. Is that hard? You cannot RIDE a horse without a HORSE. I hope you understand that RIDING A HORSE did not mean riding a HORSE? Understand?

      LYRIC poetry was written for the LYRE. Isn't that cute. Paul didn't write LYRIC POETRY but NARRATIVE. Narrative is intended to be NARATED. That's even cuter. Even the Psalms are metrical narrative intended to be RECITED.

      Ken: You CANNOT use Lucian without CONFESSING that you INTEND to use music to PLUCK the fleece from the FAT HEADS, SIMPLETONS and especially WIDOWS on wellfare.

      Lucian of Samosata wrote in ATTIC GREEK and not Koine.

      It doesn't matter who quotes Lucian you cannot have him speaking a form of GREEK a hundred years or so after Paul.

      Chris: Strange logic. Lucian may have used IM for the wrong reasons but that does not mean that when we quote him on the usage of a word (psallein) we have to used IM the same way he does. Ken is telling us IM has been used in the wrong place and for the wrong reasons. That is not scriptural but cultural reason for rejecting IM.

      No, that is ken DEFINING the meaning of PSALLO. Lucian did not say PSALLO and expect anyone to read his mind and MAKE MUSIC. Lucian, like most people selling tales, used ATTIC which was the language of the Aristocrats. This does not mean that PSALLO still meant PLAY A HARP because it never did.

      Lucian was describing the ORACLES. An oracle is a MEGA CHURCH or any church which uses ENTERTAINMENT to get MONEY: Apollo at Delphi had the most famous. Apollo is Abaddon or Apollyon and his MUSES or LOCUSTS will go back into hell with him. Peter said that ALL SPEAKING must be as the ORACLE OF GOD and that means to recite THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN.

      The "worship leaders" decided how to FLEECE simple minded people. The BEST way was to play musical instruments and make them THINK (he, he, he) that the gods or DEMONS were INSIDE. John defined these ORACLES with their unlawful LAW OF GIVING when he defined the HOLY WHORE as the end-time church. The message is that music does MIND CONTROL. Since the church uses NARRATIVE--even the Psalms--for TEACHING then it NARRATES and does not grow LYRICAL which scholars note as both a MARK and PRODUCER of effeminate males.

      And since Lucian was writing in Attic Greek and not Koine (I presume you know that Attic was the foundation for the development of Koine) why bother to tell us about the wayward practices IM was used by Lucian. Just prove to us that the meaning differs. Hey, Arndt & Gingrich and Edward Robinson did not know better for referring us to Lucian.

      Ken accused Tom Burgess of using "quoted" resources OUT OF CONTEXT which has to be DELIBERATE.

      Ken: The argument is that PSALLO meant to play an instrument AFTER Paul.

      Chris: Nope, that is NOT the argument. The argument is that Psallo did not change its meaning to exclude an instrument by the time Paul used it.

      PSALLO never included INSTRUMENTS. It means to twang or pluck. You could ALWAYS pluck a harp string but the word PLUCK never told you WHAT to pluck. A related PLUCK means to PLUCK the pubic hair for the "minister of the gods" so he would be ready when Alexander the Great PLUCKED his harp to GROOM him.

      When Tom quotes the RESOURCES to prove PSALLO he does not tell you that you that the writers ALWAYS tell you WHAT is being PLUCKED. Neither does he tell you that all of the resources point to older males PLUCKING a harp like Romeo to attract MALE Julets.

      You are pretty bright to know what arguments I have heard? THE argument from Burgess and all of the ditto heads IS that Lucian of Samosato used psallo to mean play an instrument AFTER Paul wrote to the Ephesians. I have the book! Johnson, Knowles all copy the same stuff."

      Ken: Psallo NEVER means to play an instrument, much less does it mean SING and PLAY and name an instrument.

      Chris: Lets see what 4 distinguish scholars of Greek have to say about that.

      Arndt & Gingrich The original meaning of Psallo was pluck, play (a stringed instrument); this persisted at least to the time of Lucian (cf Parasite 17)

      I think the PARENTHESIS means that you can PLUCK a stringed instrument. It always meant to PLUCK but Lucien used the word psallein. YOU CANNOT PLUCK A LYRE WITHOUT A LYRE.

      Response to written and posted letters: The Source for Arndt and Gingrich did not make the mistake

      We readers know that Arndt made a bad mistake because HE JUST WANTED TO DO IT. Here is some real true history:

      "It was so kind of you to take the time to make your inquiry regarding the word psallo. I see by comparison with Bauer's first edition that the editors of Arndt and Gingrich have incorporated the obvious Old Testament meaning into the metaphorical usage of the New Testament.

      "Bauer did not make this mistake, and we will be sure to correct it in the revision. I doubt whether the archaeologists can establish the use of the harp in early Christian services." (Bales, 114)
      "In other words, Gingrich admitted that the harp no more inheres in psallo than it does in the English word sing. Furthermore, the phrase, which was in parenthesis, was not included in their translation of psallo in James 5:13)

      "Gingrich told J. W. Roberts in a conversation in St. Louis that the insertion was his private opinion. McCord announced that the change would be made but it was not." (Bales, p. 115)
      "In other words, Gingrich admitted that the harp no more inheres in psallo than it does in the English word sing. Furthermore, the phrase, which was in parenthesis, was not included in their translation of psallo in James 5:13)

      "Gingrich told J. W. Roberts in a conversation in St. Louis that the insertion was his private opinion. McCord announced that the change would be made but it was not." (Bales, p. 115)

      Thayer b. to twang the strings of a musical instrument; and absolutely to play on a string instrument, to play the harp etc.

      You should NEVER too busy to quote the WHOLE truth.

      Thayer: a. To pluck off, pull out: the hair. b. To cause to vibrate by touching, to twang; spec. to touch or strike the chord, to touch the strings of a musical instrument, to play the harp, etc.; Sept. for zamar and much oftener for nagan; to sing to the music of the harp.

      In the N.T. to sing a hymn, to celebrate the praise of God in song, Jas.5:13; Eph.5:13; Rom.15:9; 1 Cor.14:15 .


      Trench Psalm properly a touching, and then a touching of the harp or other stringed instruments with the finger or with the plectrum, was next the instrument itself, and last of all the song sung with this musical accompaniment. It is in this latest stage of its meaning that we find the word adopted in the Septuagint; and to this agree the ecclesiastical definitions of it;

      I don't intend to be arrogant: it must be congenital but I have better resources than Trench etal. No one will ever find ANY text in the Bible or ANY literature where PSALLO means to PLAY THE HARP. The word means what the CONTEXT says. If you PLUCK a harp string then you make a SOUND, but it is not MAKING MUSIC IN CHURCH. If you play a series of three tones then you make melody but NOT harmony. If you twang your bowstring to send a SINGING arrow then you are making WAR and that is where you find most of the PLUCKING going on other than homosexual males or prostitutes.
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    ...........................THE BOOK

    What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

    There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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    Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

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    5 Godly Elders
    10 Not so Godly Elders
    120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
    2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
    2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
    Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
    Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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