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  • Response Part Two
    • (no login)
      Posted Feb 18, 2009 6:29 PM

      PART Two response.

      You need to begin at Mount Sinai where Israel rose up to play in musical idolatry. For that profaning the Sabbath which was for rest and not for worship, God turned them over to worship the starry host and gave them a firey law. The kings were given in God's anger and taken away in His anger because the "elders" fired God. God understood that they wanted to worship like the nations.

      Samuel and others make it clear that God pronounced judgment upon the nation and promised that the kings would lead them into slavery and then captivity and death. That even includes the warning that the kings would confiscate the young men to make "instruments of chariots" and like all oriental potentates they would run before the chariots making noise (never called music) and be the first ones killed. Prophets like Nehemiah confirm this and identify the Civil-Military-Clergy complex as robbers and parasites.

      Even in the wilderness the Qahal was the synagogue and the holy convocation was to read the Word and discuss it: that was always the pattern for the synagogue and the church.

      [linked image]

      That being said I'd like to engage in some friendly dialogue on a few Scriptures. I'm curious to know what your interpretation is.

      The first topic is King David and his use of instruments in worship.

      David himself was described as a man after God's own heart and was also a skilled harp player.


      There are two understandings of that: first, most scholars say that it means that "God picked David." Secondly, there are severaly passages which praise people because they "walked in the first ways of David." David was king and the Levitical Warrior instrument players were under the king and commanders of the army. The Temple was not the Tent God had given to David at a Jebusite High place called Sodom.

      "...by speaking of Himself as 'greater than the Temple' (Mt. 12:6) and by quoting Hos. 6:6, 'I desire goodness and not sacrifice,' He indicated the relative subortinateness of the temple and its whole system of worship, and in His utterance to the woman of Samaria He intimated the abolition both of the whole idea of the central sanctuary and of the entire ceremonial worship; 'Neither in this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, shall ye worship the Father'; they that worship him must worship in spirit (mind) and truth" (Jn. 4:21, 24)." (Int. Std. Bible Ency., Worship, p. 3111).
      Remember that God turned the national system over to worship the starry host: all of The book of The Law was added to protect the weak against the strong but had no spiritual or redeaming value.

      http://www.piney.com/First.Samuel.Eight.html
      This clearly identifies the kings as those who would carry out the captivity and death penalty. Therefore, whatever you see David doing has nothing to do with the SPIRITUAL THREAD which quarantined the people OUTSIDE THE GATES when they heard the NOISE never called music. The people always attended CHURCH in the wilderness which included REST, reading the Word and discussisng it. It excludes vocal or instrumental rejoicing.

      John Calvin Numbers 10

      http://www.piney.com/Calvin.Numbers.10.html

      Numbers 10:6. When ye blow an alarm the second time, then the camps that lie on the south side shall take their journey:
      they shall blow an alarm for their journeys

      ........Calvin's Latin: 6. Quum autem clanxeritis cum jubilatione secundo, tum proficiscentur castra eorum
      ........qui castrametantur ad meridiem; cum jubilatione clangent in profectionibus suis.

      Numbers 10:7. But when the congregation is to be gathered together, ye shall blow,
      but ye shall not sound an alarm.

      ........You SHALL NOT: 7. Quando vero congregabitis coetum, clangetis, sed absque jubilatione.

      Both the Hebrew and Latin show that the CHURCH was and is a school of the Bible--only: you don't need a LAW not to make music in Bible Class.

      THE SYNAGOGUE word used by the Jews is:

      6951. Qahal kaw-hawl´; from 6950; assemblage (usually concretely): assembly, company, congregation, multitude

      IN THE LATIN THE "SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE" IS CALLED THE ACADAMY

      Calvin: 7. Quando vero congregabitis coetum, clangetis, sed absque jubilatione.

      [7] quando autem congregandus est populus simplex tubarum clangor erit et non concise ululabunt

      Con-grgo Congrego Academia congregation. where plato taught, scholars are called Academici, and his doctrine
      Philosophia Academica.. The philosophy of the Acadamy,A. For The philosophy of the Academy:
      Academia congregation. where plato taught, scholars are called Academici,
      and his doctrine. Distinction from Stoica, Cynica

      That which was permitted as a "church bell" :

      [linked image]

      Simplex I. In gen., simple, plain, uncompounded, unmixed,

      That which was OUTLAWED.

      Tuba Apart from military purposes, it was used on various occasions, as at religious festivals, games, funerals,
      ........b. Sonorous, elevated epic poetry,
      ........c. A lofty style of speaking,
      ........II. Trop.: tuba belli civilis, i. e. exciter, author, instigato


      THE SYNAGOGUE RESTRICTED WITHIN THE PEOPLE'S PRECINCTS NEVER CHANGED:

      ONLY for the national sacrificial system and going to war were instruments used. The BOOK of Psalms contains only 50 mizmors suitable for use and none of them include instruments. The other Psalms are warrior's panic Psalms and never used in the synagogue:

      The book of Psalms contain new doctrine after the Law of Moses. And after the writing of Moses, it is the second book of doctrine... (David) first gave to the Hebrews a new style of psalmody, why which he abrogates the ordinances established by Moses with respect to sacrifices, and introduces the new hymn and a new style of jubilant praise in the worship of God; and throughout his whole ministry he teaches very many othe things that went beyond the law of Moses." (Fragment of Commentary by Hippolytus, bishop of Rome, Ante-Nicene, V, p. 170)

      You say, "We want to be like the nations, like the peoples of the world, who serve wood and stone." But what you have in mind will never happen. Eze.20:32

      "The quotation from Acts refers to David early in life, before he had fallen into those great sins which cast such a shadow upon his administration...This commendation is not absolute, but describes the character of David in comparison with that of Saul...It merely indicates a man whom God will approve, in distinction from Saul, who was rejected" (Haley's Bible Handbook, p. 222).


      When people are compared to David it is during his first ways and not his last ways:

      ........And the Lord was with Jehoshaphat, because he walked in the first ways of his father David, and sought not unto Baalim; 2Chr.17:3

      I repeat that there are TWO THREADS in the Old Testament (and in everything): First the EVIL THREAD was a secular monarchy which God warned and Nehemiah claimed that they were robbers and parasites. ALL of the deliberate sowing of musical discord are proof texted from the EVIL THREAD
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    ...........................THE BOOK

    What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?


    There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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    10 Not so Godly Elders
    120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
    2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
    2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
    Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
    Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
     

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