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  • Ray's opinion of John's message
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      Posted Jun 24, 2009 4:46 PM

      Title: Johins entire message is opinion and not the Words of God

      Title: RESPONSE: Ray's arguments are for the most part unrelated to the subject of instrumental music in the assembly -- a question originally raised by an elder of a local congregation that is being led/misled by those with going-along-with-the-winds-of-change-at-any-cost tendencies. As one can tell, Ray's point-by-point list is no more than the intent to make personal attacks against John Waddey and to deliberately pervert or rewrite the history of the Restoration Movement just like his mentors -- the change agents operating in the brotherhood.

      Point by point as requested by John's disciple:

      RESPONSE: Point by point attacks by a fearful Ray [last name: unknown], a follower of the Change Agents (Max Lucado, Rick Atchley, et al), the Community Church/Change Movement (Rick Warren, Bill Hybels, et al):

      1. John offers not a single scripture to justify his conclusion. His thoughts posted are only his thoughts and not God's. He quotes acripturtes, but even Satan knows to do that. They key to speaking God's Word is to do so within context and without interpretation. John does neither. His entire argument is based solely on his interpretaiton and on uninspired non-Biblical writings. I am quite familiar with Church history. It is not inspired. God's Word alone is.

      RESPONSE: John's message concerning instrumental music [the topic of the discussion, Ray] is scripture-based and is the same message throughout generations of the Restoration Movement and is the same message derived from the New Testament and early church history as it pertains to the use of musical devices in the assembly. The early Christians did no such musical idolatry, and it was not until the Roman Catholic Church began the use of instrumental music centuries later. No, Ray, from all indications present, you are very unfamiliar with church history. That God's Word alone is inspired is a no-brainer.

      2. God's Word teaches us explicity how to be hold to God's faithful word and how to teach those who come to salvation the Savior's will. John, however, has chosen to speak where the Scriptures are silent. In doing so he elevates his opinion above God's Holy Word and presumes to speak and judge where the Scriptures are silent and do not judge.

      RESPONSE: I agree with your original premise pertaining to holding to God's faithful word. The ones guilty of not being faithful to God's word are the change agents operating in the brotherhood whose main goal is to disrupt the peace in the churches of Christ, to create conflict, to restructure the church and to change God's directives for the church. Their followers, including Ray, are just as guilty of adding to God's truth or changing His teachings to accommodate culture and society.

      3. The "Church of Christ" is a denomination whether John says so or not. To deny it is to be blind. Does the fact that the Church of Christ is a denomination negate the fact that is is part of the Lord's Church? NO!!!

      RESPONSE: Ray, you sound like you came from a background that believed that "the church of Christ is His body and is not a denomination." That you were also taught the scriptural reasons why. As to why you changed directions is simply a problem of yours -- not John Waddey's. The Lord's body is not and has never been a denomination -- it is NOT comprised of all the hundreds and hundreds of religious bodies or "Christian" denominations" as YOU think. If there was an attempt to transform the church that belongs to Christ into a denomination, it would clearly be the intent of the change agents -- not by John Waddey nor by the great men of the Restoration Movement.

      4. John may claim he does not have a written creed (except for his own blog and his own writings, and all those non-inspired writings he also follows), but he does have a creed. He follows traditions that are not found in the scriptures but are in his and other human interpretations of the scriptures. Many who he has publically denounced and judged are, like him, baptized believers who worship and serve Christ the head of the church in spirit and in truth. They, like him, are an autonomous body under the exclusive authority of Christ and His Word. John has set himself up as a denominatonal governing body as have all who decide what congregations are "sound" and what congregations are not. They have elevated themselves to such a gioverning body for they judge not based on the plain and simple Word of God but based on their interpretartions and traditions. ALL who he passes judgement on identify themselves as Christians (I Pet. 4:16). Since Christ purchased ALL of the called out with his blood (Acts 20:28) and is head and savior of ALL of the called out (Eph. 1:22; 5:23). And by the way, Paul never called any one congregation a "church of Christ" but spoke only in the plural (Rom. 16:16).

      RESPONSE: All your accusations are false. You made them up. All of a sudden, the doctrine, teachings and practices of the church by past generations are now labeled as "traditions" by the change agents and their disciples, including Ray. That means that the observance of the Lord's sacrifice and death on the cross is now a "tradition," according to Ray and the change agents. The change agents and Ray are confused about the differences between: (1) man-made traditions and (2) the teachings of Christ and His apostles. John is not opposed to the truth or against the principles of the Restoration Movement. On the contrary, the change agents compromise God's truth in order to get along with their denominational neighbors. Ray is misunderstanding the fact and truth the church is the body of Christ and is comprised of individuals who have been baptized in order to become Christians -- not the church is comprised of a conglomerate of "denominations" or religious organizations. Organizations or groups do not make up the body of Christ; but INDIVIDUAL Christians do.

      5. I find it remarkable that a man [. . .] would behave so much like the unforgiving servant in the Gospel of Matthew (18). ALL who John denounces and passes judgement on recognize the sole authority of Christ to prescribe the faith, worship and practice of His church. When John deenounces and passes judgement on faithful members of the Lord's Church and on the saved that are accepted by God, he is rebelling against God, God's authority, and what God has accepted. "Such rebellion against his authority God does not wink at. "For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft..." (I Sam. 15:23)."

      RESPONSE: John denounces the disruptions caused by change agents in the church. John is not changing God's directives for the church. The change agents are doing that.

      6. John seeks to drive out faithful members of the Lord's Church and create division against those whom God has accepted.

      RESPONSE: That's a lie. It's just the opposite. The Change Movement is creating division in the church by introducing and implementing unnecessary and controversial changes that faithful members detest.

      7. If John or you knew one iota of our history over the past 200 years, he would know that our practices have been constantly changing, but the faith never has. Only someone copmpletely ignorant of our history in Amerixa could make the claims John makes. But instead, John charges those with whom he disagrees with causing division because they will not yield to his opinions and efforts to force opinions not explicitily stated in Scripture on others. He and his disciples are blind to the imposition of the wedge they are driving into our brotherhood.

      RESPONSE: Ray, you have the exact image of the change agents who want to RESTRUCTURE the church and REWRITE the history of the Restoration Movement. John knows the history of the church over the past 200 years. The change agents want to distort and rewrite the history.

      8. I do plead with John and his disciples to consider their ways (Hag. 1:7), to remember their first love (Rev. 2:4-5), to turn from following their own interpretations and traditions, and return to the simple faith and worship they learned and practiced when first they tasted the good word of God and the glorious salvation of Christ (Heb. 6:4-5).

      RESPONSE: The advice you're giving to John is exactly what you and the change agents need -- a return to "the old paths." Jeremiah is speaking to you: "[6:16] Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.


      I find it incredulous that anyone who supports the division and grumbling promoted by this website and by John is a true member of the Lord's Church. I do not doubt your claim that you are, but it is incredulous that members of Christ's body would behave like those who promote this website and the divisions promoted by John.

      RESPONSE: The plea of this website is to return to "the old paths." Reject the deceptions and perversions and disruptions of the change agents who are determined to compromise God's truth to satisfy culture and society. Ray, you align: (a) either with God's truth and the church that Christ established, (b) or with the Change Movement of Rick Warren and his disciples, the change agents in the church and their disciples. In reality, the question needs not be asked. We already know which side you're on.
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    ...........................THE BOOK

    What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?


    There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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    10 Not so Godly Elders
    120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
    2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
    2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
    Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
    Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
     

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