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  • VBS and "a very trinitarian tilt to..."
    • Donnie Cruz (Login Donnie.Cruz)
      ConcernedMembersMadison
      Posted Aug 29, 2013 4:33 AM


      You raised a great question in your initial post: "I wonder why we do not lean more towards materials published by our own brotherhood...." I don't know if research has been done regarding the use of non-church of Christ materials in VBS, i.e., the extent of it. I suspect that it's no different from the materials used by some of the theological seminary-educated preachers and teachers in the brotherhood.

      As to "how these threads morph about," this thread may be a good example of that. In the initial post, it stated the following: "I know that Group Publishing has at least a very trinitarian tilt to their materials." I agree -- it was a "slight" mention of the expression "trinitarian tilt," and note how the discussion has expanded to "the Holy Spirit."

      I think we've discussed this subject very extensively already, and ... ... ... it is really not finished yet. happy.gif We've dealt with definitions of words and expressions, parts of speech, grammatical structures, translations, history, origin, etc.

      I would simply point out the significance of the preposition "OF" in the expression that we find in some 70 passages, both OT and NT. This is a strong case for identifying "the part versus the whole." A "part" and the "whole" are both entities -- that should be a given. However, in the case of "the Spirit OF the Lord," we cannot separate or segregate "the spirit" from "the Lord." God's holy spirit cannot be separated from God -- it simply means the spirit [which is "holy"] belonging to God.

      It's very important to learn that the NT refers to "the Holy Spirit" as "the Spirit of the Lord," "the Spirit of Jesus Christ," "the Spirit of the Father," "the Spirit of the Living God."

      Translations of the original NT Greek manuscripts play a major role in the confusion. The Trinity Creed was invented several centuries preceding some of our major translations including the KJV, and such doctrine certainly influenced [sorry!!!] translators, coupled by the fact that where it was necessary to supply a personal pronoun, there was a difficult choice between:

      (a) "he, him, himself, his, who, whom"
      ----------------- versus ----------------
      (b) "it, itself, its, which."


      I have reviewed several passages in the past [I'm not sure where my notes are now], comparing the use of pronouns, etc. [There may be about the same number of masculine vs. neuter references in those passages.]

      What comes to mind where "the Holy Spirit" is not masculine gender are these references:
      • "[2] As God liveth, who hath taken away my judgment; and the Almighty, who hath vexed my soul; [3] All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils; [4] My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit." (Job 27)

      • "[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God." (Romans 8)

      • "[24] And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us." (I John 3)

      • "[11] Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow." (I Peter 2)

      • "[12] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God." (I Cor. 2)


      There may be more....
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    ...........................THE BOOK

    What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


    There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

    This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

    Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
    Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

    Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

    It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

    At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

    They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

    The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

    At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

    Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

    The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

    The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

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    Here is the list of players;

    5 Godly Elders
    10 Not so Godly Elders
    120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
    2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
    2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
    Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
    Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
     

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