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  • Milllersville Church of Christ: Instrumental Music and Trinity
    • Rancor (Login Ken.Sublett)
      Posted Oct 8, 2017 7:49 PM

      Millersville is silent on "music" so Rancor claims that their responses was:

      Question: "Are we supposed to use musical instruments in church?"

      Rancor is an "elder" but loves to post web pages of those who do not believe what I write. When people publish their list of beliefs which is a creed they should not be shy about defending them.

      MillersVille's statements are in red: I, Ken Sublett, will comment because these are widely held views by most churches of Christ. The fact is that God did not command the King, Kingdom, the Civil government which rejected Theocracy, the slaughter of innocent animals and their HOLOCAUSE, Priests or the Levites who made terrorizing noise and not music. Nothing is lost by studying the Scriptures and commenting on any of my response.

      Millersville's Answer: Musical instruments were definitely used in worship in the Old Testament Nehemiah 12:36;
      Habakkuk 3:19; see also the introductions to Psalm 4:1; 6:1; 54:1; 55:1; 61:1; 67:1; 76:1)

      NONE of these passages have anything to do with the Synagogue where worship was once a week reading of the Word. Paul commands the READING of the Psalms (about 57) in the BOOK named Psalms.

      After the "Jews" fell into Instrumental-Trinitarian-perverted idolatry at Mount Stephen in Acts agrees with many Old Testament proofs that this was a sin beyond redemption and God sentenced them to captivity and death in Assyria and Babylon.

      The Civil-Military-Clergy under the King and Commanders of the ARMY: There was never any instruments used for 'worship' by the Jews. The Jacob-Cursed and God-abandoned Levites stood guard at the gate to the sacrificial alter for goats and infants and the instrumental NOISE warned that any godly Jew who came NEAR would be executed.

      The Civillian and Godly Classes:
      They attended synagogue or The Church of Christ (the Rock) in the wilderness for hearing the word PREACHED by being READ once each REST day. Vocal or instrumental were outlawed.

      Instruments were added by David as KING after God turned the nation over to to human kings and WASHED HIS HANDS.

      There is no sacrificial music in HEROD'S TEMPLE in thee New Testament at the time of Jesus. No Jew attended Temple Slaughter and no Synagogue or Assembly ever had instrumental noise "making the lambs dumb before the slaughter."

      Millersville's Answer: The fact that the New Testament nowhere condemns musical instruments indicates that the Old Testament practice was continued in the New Testament church

      Matthew 27:29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head,
      .....and a reed in his right hand:
      .....and they bowed the knee before him,
      .....and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
      Matthew 27:28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe.
      Matthew 27:31 And after that they had MOCKED him,
      .....they took the robe off from him,
      .....and put his own raiment on him,
      .....and led him away to crucify him.

      Mock is: Paizo dance, play a game, 4. play on a musical instrument, h.Ap.206: c. acc., Pan ho kalamo phthongapaizôn [played on a reed]Ar.Ra.230 ; dance and sing, Pi. O.1.16.5. play amorously, prosallêlous X.Smp.9.2 ; metatinosLXX Ge.26.8 ; of mares, Arist.HA572a30.

      And many other New Testament warnings about Play or Mocking which is singing or making any kind of musical noise while SPEAKING Christ's Word FORHim.

      Millersville's Answer:The early church was comprised almost entirely of Jews. It is highly likely that they continued using musical instruments in the church, just as they did in Old Testament worship.

      The Jews who had any interest in the Word of God and many Gentiles attended SYNAGOGUE or CHURCH. All hypocritic arts such as speakers for hire, singers or instruments were silenced by COMMAND in the Old Testament and by common decency when listening to the WORD, Logos or Regulative Principle which outlaws preaching for hire, singers or instrument players.

      Millersville's Answer:So, even without an explicit New Testament reference, it is clear the church can use musical instruments in its worship.

      The Sabbath or Rest and the Christian Assembly is defined as A SCHOOL OF CHRIST when the elders Teach that which has been taught." The assembly is never a WORSHIP OBSERVATION to which Jesus says "the kingdom does not come."

      Because the preacher is hired as Bible Literate we can label that as a lie. There are many New Testaments condemning instruments. This was outlawed but prophesied of the work of JUDAS who blows the flute.

      2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural [instinctive] brute [Anti-Logical] brute beasts, [Zoon, Zao, Zoe]
      .....made to be taken and destroyed,
      .....speak evil of the things that they understand not; [through lack of knowledge]
      .....and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

      Corruption: G5356 phthora fthor-ah' From G5351 ; decay, that is, ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively):--plague take thee! away with thee, corruption, destroy, perish. deprave Phtheiro b. with a Prep., luroidou, lur-aoidos who sings to the lyre, harmonia meaning: In music, stringing, of bows and lyres,
      .....musical scale, generally music:
      .....rhythm, acting, dancing.hudr-aulês one who plays the water organ

      Paul did not CORRUPT the WORD (the only resource) which means "Selling learning at retail" which is defined by the Greeks as prostituting the Civil duty of teaching the next generation.

      Millersville's Answer:However, there is a clear New Testament reference to musical instruments. Ephesians 5:19 declares, "speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord."

      He believes that Paul commanded SINGING Psalms. Paul commanded SPEAKING the Biblical text. ODE and PSALLO are IN the heart or silent so that we can TEACH.

      SPEAK and the WORD or LOGOS is the opposite of ODE.

      Millersville's Answer: The phrase "making melody" comes from the Greek word "psallontes" which means "to rub or touch," "to twitch or twang." It was commonly used in Greek to refer to playing a stringed musical instrument


      Eph. 5:19 SPEAKING to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

      Melody is PSALLO which is never MUSICAL melody which is the Greek MELOS. It would sound silly to command MAKING SINGING AND PLAYING A HARP.

      Making MELODY IN the heart is the opposite of Making Melody With a Harp. The instrument MUST be named.

      Is. 23:16 Take an HARP, go about the city, thou HARP that hast been forgotten; MAKE sweet MELODY, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered.

      Millersville's Answer: Whatever the case, the Bible neither forbids or commands the use of musical instruments in church.

      Millersville's Answer: Therefore, the church has freedom to use them if it FEELS LED of God to do so.

      Jesus commanded that we teach what He commanded to be taught UNTIL HE RETURNS. If you hear a CALL to add instruments or any kind of performance music the only personified SPIRIT is Apollon and He is the leader of the LOCUSTS which disciples know to be his MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAM. The goal of any kind of music is to MAKE THE LAMBS DUMB BEFORE THE SLAUGHTER.

      Rancor posted this on another thread. This topic is a favorite on many forums run by people unable to read beyond proof texts.

      Ephesians 2:8 says, “For by grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves.” The only way any of us can enter into a relationship with God is because of His grace toward us. Grace began in the Garden of Eden when God killed an animal to cover the sin of Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:21). He could have killed the first humans right then for their disobedience. But rather than destroy them, He chose to make a way for them to be right with Him. That pattern of grace continued throughout the Old Testament when God instituted blood sacrifices as a means to atone for sinful men. It was not the physical blood of those sacrifices, per se, that cleansed sinners; it was the grace of God that forgave those who trusted in Him (Hebrews 10:4; Genesis 15:6). Sinful men showed their faith by offering the sacrifices that God required.

      The term SAVED or SALVATION demands that you ask a simple question: SAVED FROM WHAT?

      Jesus would expect His disciples to back up at least to the first verse.


      Eph. 2:7 That in the ages to come he might SHOW the exceeding riches of his grace his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
      Eph. 2:8 For BY grace are ye saved THROUGH faith;
      .....and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
      Eph. 2:9 Not of WORKS, lest any man should boast.


      The World or Kosmos or ecumenical is the kingdom of the Devil. Jesus did not pray for the WORLD and said that neither HE nor those who obey Him are OF the World. Only a FEW have any interest in the SPIRITUAL realm: Paul said of God: IN HIM we live, move and have our being. The Athenians could never grasp the Spirit world while being consumed with. their own "worship rituals." Peter said BAPTISM SAVES because we REQUEST by Jesus' invitation for A good conscience or consciousness to be able to read Ephesians 1f before having tunnel vision over 2:8..

      Paul speaks of obeying Christ to "save ourselves from this crooked race." We can't swim a thousand miles but we can save ourselves by graciously entering into a passing ship.

      GRACE teaches and FAITH or Pistis includes COMPLY.

      Eph. 2:1 And you hath he quickened, [giving A holy spirit like an infant]
      .....who were dead in trespasses and sins;
      Eph. 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this WORLD,
      .....according to the prince of the power of the air,
      .....the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
      Eph. 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh,
      .....fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind;
      .....and were by nature [our practices] the children of wrath, even as others.
      Eph. 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
      Eph. 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins,
      .....hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
      Eph. 2:6 And hath raised us up together,
      .....and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

      Those who OBEY and are baptized are added by Christ to His spiritual kingdom

      Col. 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness,
      .....and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

      Eph. 2:7 That in the ages to come he might SHOW the exceeding riches of his grace
      in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
      Eph. 2:8 For BY grace are ye saved THROUGH faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
      Eph. 2:9 Not of WORKS, lest any man should boast.

      Jesus was/is God's personified Grace

      Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath APPEARED to all men,
      Titus 2:12 TEACHING us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts,
      we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
      Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
      Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he
      might redeem us from all iniquity,
      and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

      OBEYING the TYPE of Jesus pattern. A TUPOS is a 'Pattern intended to be imitated.' By Grace Through Faith those ACCEPT the free gift are THEN free from Sin.

      Rom. 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin,
      but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
      Rom. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

      MOST of what we call "christianism" is REALLY HARD WORK trying to substitute and prevent people from accepting GRACE which is FREE and cannot be sold or bought. That was the message of the Athenians addicted for looking for love in all the wrong places. Isaiah 55.

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    ...........................THE BOOK

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    There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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    5 Godly Elders
    10 Not so Godly Elders
    120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
    2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
    2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
    Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
    Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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