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Anonymous
(no login)
64.234.85.24

Re: RE: Follow God or Man

August 1 2012, 7:04 AM 

Nice touch on calling me vicar when you were labeled as such....great penmanship

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.12.102

Re: RE: Follow God or Man

August 1 2012, 11:21 AM 

Dave was caught doing exactly what he accused B of doing. Better luck next time, my boy.

 
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David Fields
(no login)
64.234.85.24

Lots of Smoke

August 1 2012, 7:02 AM 

B said "Now Dave, on the other hand, has previously said that we may add instrumental music if we wish,

Show, in quotes, where I SAID that, especially the part about "if we wish"


This is where it gets good....


__________________________

David Fields used "Smoking Out a False Teacher" as this message's author.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Aug 1, 2012 11:36 PM


 
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B
(no login)
74.179.15.45

Re: Lots of Smoke

August 1 2012, 12:29 PM 

We know Dave has said on more than one occasion that we may add IM because it "aids," "enhances," and "accompanies" our singing. BTW, none of those reasons for having IM are found in the New Testament. If Dave really followed the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command, he would teach others to stick only with vocal music, to avoid IM in worship, and his posts would reflect that, but they don't.

If our readers have followed Dave's posts for awhile, they know that, even though his church is an a cappella church, he sees nothing wrong when other churches elect to have IM if it is their preference, if it is their wish.

Does Dave deny that sentiment? It doesn't have to be a "quote"; it's a synopsis of Dave's "belief" about IM.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.85.111

Re: Lots of Smoke

August 1 2012, 4:32 PM 

Bumped for update table comparing Ephesians 5 and Colossians 3.
Not last update

 
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Tom Brite
(no login)
69.91.123.125

Re: Lots of Smoke

August 1 2012, 5:07 PM 

I think it is sad that the best and most biblical post on this thread, the one by Roger, has drawn no attention or responses.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.85.111

Re: Lots of Smoke

August 1 2012, 5:46 PM 

I responded to Roger to show that FREQUENTLY SPEAKING the Word of God is the ANTITHESIS of pagan religions where the singing was a result of "getting drunk on wine." When the Greek Somposium needed to discuss something important the voted to send out the Flute-Girl and Harp-boy. The point was that the music induced spiritual intoxication and called for more wine. Ever hear of a guy trying to sell booze without music?

I posted the ANTITHESIS thing above and showed by the definition of Words that God HID HIMSELF from the wise and prudent.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise [sophos] and prudent [sunetos] , and hast revealed them unto babes.

The answere: is: God HIDES Himself from the:.
sophos mantis poets and musicians, Pi.O.1.9, P.1.42, 3.113; en kithara s. en oinois, kithara [guitar, harp] , lawyers or professors

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers!
.....for ye have taken away the key of knowledge:
.....ye entered not in yourselves,
.....and them that were entering in ye hindered.
Luke 11:53 And as he said these things unto them,
.....the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge him vehemently,
..... and to provoke him to speak of many things:
Luke 11:54 Laying wait for him,
.....and seeking to catch something out of his mouth,
.....that they might accuse him.

Answer: Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites. The Spirit OF Christ in Ezekiel 33 named performance preachers, singers and instrument players.

The answer is: God Hides Himself from the Prudent:
[sunetos]
dusxunetou xuneton melos Id.Ph.1506 I have many swift arrows in the quiver under my arm, [85] arrows that speak to the initiated. But the masses need interpreters.

These "sending forth melodies" were LOVE ARROWS to "psallo" (grind to bits) your human heart so that bad things happened.

The answer is that the PRUDENT use hard to understand MELODIES which are eqauated to

melos kata mel limb by limb, dismember in order to CONSUME the enemy.

Nothing else in Roger's post can trump the clear meaning of Paul when he defined the assembly as TEACHING the Word where SPEAK is the opposite of mosic or poetry.


 
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B
(no login)
74.179.211.12

Re: Lots of Smoke

August 1 2012, 6:18 PM 

So what are you waiting for, Tom? Go ahead and respond to Roger's post if it has piqued you that much.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.85.74

Re: A_N_N_O_U_N_C_E_M_E_N_T_S

August 1 2012, 9:20 PM 

THIS WAS THE PERSONA WHICH MADE MORE THAN HALF OF THE OWNERS TO FLEE. The image marked on the minds of godly people does not need any Biblical evidence to spook them. It's in the DNA and a MARK to separate the lambs from the goats. That is not opinion.

In Ephesians 4 Paul said that Christ gave the Elders and the Pastor-Teachers commanded to teach that which had been taught. Their first task was to DISFELLOWSHIP the cunning craftsmen or Sophists which defines all of the parasites seeing godliness as a means of finacial gain--just an occupation. They USED all of the performing arts to SILENCE the voice of Christ AND steal their property under the ploy that it was for "the gods." Plutarch affirms the Bible and the Jewish Encyclopedia that the PATTERN of the musical bandits was imposed BECAUSE God had abandoned them to worship the starry host. Many historians wrote about the mess in Ephesus which Paul OUTLAWED in very clear words IF you care enough to just read the text.

Plutarch Antony himself was enjoying abundant peace and leisure, and was swept back by his passions into his wonted mode of life.
.....[2] Lute-players like Anaxenor,
.....flute-players like Xanthus,
.....one Metrodorus, a dancer,
.....and such other rabble of Asiatic performers,
.....who surpassed in impudence and effrontery the pests from Italy,
.....poured like a flood into his quarters and held sway there.

It was past all endurance that everything was devoted to these extravagances. [3] For all Asia, like the famous city of Sophocles,

.....was filled alike with incense offerings,
.....Alike with paeans, too, and voice of heavy groans.

At any rate, when Antony made his entry into Ephesus,
.....women arrayed like Bacchanals,
.....and men and boys like Satyrs and Pans, [wearing SOFT clothes]
.....led the way before him, and the city was full of ivy
.....and thyrsus-wands [Shaken Reeds]
.....and harps and pipes and flutes,
.....the people hailing him as Dionysus Giver of Joy and Beneficent.
For he was such, undoubtedly, to some; but to the greater part he was Dionysus Carnivorous and Savage.
..... [4] For he took their property from well-born men and bestowed it on flatterers and scoundrels.
From many, too, who were actually alive, men got their property by asking him for it
.....on the plea that the owners were dead.

See the DAVID pattern when the elders fired God and demanded a Senior Pastor:

http://www.piney.com/First-Samuel-Eight.html

The house of a man of Magnesia he gave to a cook, who, as we are told, had won reputation by a single supper. [5] But finally, when he was imposing a second contribution on the cities , Hybreas, speaking in behalf of Asia, plucked up courage to say this: If thou canst take a contribution twice in one year, thou hast power also to make summer for us twice, and harvest-time twice. These words were rhetorical, it is true, and agreeable to Antony's taste; but the speaker added in plain and bold words that Asia had given him two hundred thousand talents; If, said he, thou hast not received this money, demand it from those who took it; but if thou didst receive it, and hast it not, we are undone. [6] This speech made a powerful impression upon Antony; for he was ignorant of most that was going on, not so much because he was of an easy disposition, as because he was simple enough to trust those about him.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 166.248.82.25 on Aug 2, 2012 11:08 AM


 
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Anonymous
(no login)
216.67.40.24

Re: A_N_N_O_U_N_C_E_M_E_N_T_S

August 2 2012, 1:45 AM 

,,,and, of course, God didn't know what He was talking about. That's why we have lunatics like Ken to explain what He really meant...

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
64.234.85.24

Re: A_N_N_O_U_N_C_E_M_E_N_T_S

August 2 2012, 12:12 AM 

One minute it is "We know Dave has SAID on more than one occasion that we may add IM because it "aids," "enhances," and "accompanies" our singing." The next minute we have "...even though his church is an a cappella church, he sees nothing wrong when other churches elect to have IM if it is their preference..."

What does William Crump end up with? He says "It doesn't have to be a "quote"; it's a synopsis of Dave's "belief" about IM."

Congratulations B. Since we are in the middle of the 2012 Summer Olympics you, B (William Crump) get the Gold Medal for talking out the side of your mouth. You would make President Obama proud. Very smooth....not truthful, but politician smooth.

Compare the two following sentences by B.
"We know Dave has said on more than one occasion that we may ADD IM because it "aids," "enhances," and "accompanies" our singing."
......and then.....
"Even though his church is an a cappella church, he sees nothing wrong when other churches elect to have IM if it is their preference."

It goes from ADDING IM to preferrence. William Crump, start with something small like your State Senate. It shouldn't take you more than a few years to make it to our US Senate with that acrid false tongue.

 
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Racnor
(no login)
98.81.46.35

A N N O U N C E M E N T S

August 2 2012, 12:04 PM 

"B" kinda reminds of a "Joe Biden". A real connoisseur of shoe leather. Just having a little fun with ya "B". happy.gif

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.246.204

Re: A N N O U N C E M E N T S

August 2 2012, 1:17 PM 

I'll pass the shoes on to DF.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.246.204

Re: A_N_N_O_U_N_C_E_M_E_N_T_S

August 2 2012, 1:15 PM 

Anonymous (DF) must be really upset and hallucinating, because now he's raving about the State Senate and calling people "William Crump" when there's nobody posting here under that name.

Whatever, my best advice is to follow the teachings of Christ and His apostles as written in the New Testament. That includes the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command. Someone who's supposed to be an "elder" should know better than to substitute "God didn't say not to" or similarly unscriptural sentiments for the NATNTF command in order to "justify" instrumental music.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.82.25

Ephesians 4 sets up the Assembly.

August 2 2012, 12:42 PM 

Sorry about the images but this is the only way to format well. The Spirit OF Christ gave gifted men to assure that His Church or assembly was set in order and the plan recorded. If God insists that the CUNNING or CRAFTY or SOPHIST be EXCLUDED in order to make the TEACHING only plan work, they how can anyone say that Christ has not spoken. You MUST define words as they were used at the time and understand what the Spirit knew. We have noted that the Spirit of Christ never used any of the compound words ALWAYS used in the ancient text. Nor, does he follow the simple understanding by commanding that we SING and PLAY with the name of a mechanical instrument named. In Song and Psalm, the human voice is always listed as the FIRST INSTRUMENT of choice. Scripture always NAMES that which is to be used.

[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]

After disposing of all of the performers or private opinions which do not edify or EDUCATE Paul again outlawed all performance roles with the SELF-pleasure word. You MUST understand that the Greek ARESKOS or the Latin PLACEO names all of the rhetoric, performance singing, playing instruments, acting or dancing which word is INCLUDED in the music word never used of God's people.

Romans 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
Romans 15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
Romans 15:3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 15:7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.

Yes, I know that he did not say THOU SHALT NOT use Twila Paris or the simple songs of the simple singers. God AFFIRMS: he is not required to list the 100 things you CANNOT do which are not conducive to the SCHOOL OF CHRIST (Campbell's understanding the Spirit of Christ in the wilderness.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.81.31

Re: Ephesians 4 sets up the Assembly.

August 2 2012, 3:11 PM 

I should have added that the synagogue or ekklesia which was the Church in the Wilderness was held on each REST day. That was not related to a calender but to the Sun and Moon.

The synagogue for the godly tribes was held at the same time the Civil-Military-Clergy was worshiping the starry host: they "profaned" the Sabbath including the loud instrumental noise NOT called music.

The Greek Ekklesia met roughly 49 times in the year which makes it a weekly event.

Paul's "come together, synagogue or gather" words are a form of synagogue. The ekklesia or those called out met in a SYNAGOGUE which was a word of God pattern.

Jesus "synagogued" with the disciples twice after His resurrection on the "first day of the week." Paul said that the Corinthians did not assemble to eat the LORD'S SUPPER, the church at Troas met on the first day of the week and we have 2,000 years of history showing that the major assembly was on the first day of the week.

In Ephesians 4 and Romans 14 Paul demands that we silence all of the performers so that we can "use one mind and one mouth" to speak "that which is written for our learning."

Therefore, I believe that Paul was speaking directly to the assembly in Romans 15; Ephesians 5 and Colossians 3. I somehow cannot Imagine people speaking THE BIBLICAL TEXT when they get together at the coffee shop.

Even if the instrument promoters could be proven correct, that this has nothing to do with the "worship", then everyone should quite performing and demanding pay.

Jesus said that the "kingdom" or Church does not come with OBSERVATION: that word speaks of RELIGIOUS OBSERVATIONS.

http://www.piney.com/Luke.17.Kingdom.Not.Observation.html

Maybe we should just stop "laying by in store" for whatever the elders or senior pastor wants to do: that would be robbery and extortion says Paul. Paul and most recorded history says that "Lay by HIM" means "Let Peter lay by PETER" and save up something each first day of the week which would be the first WORK day for day laborers.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Re: A_N_N_O_U_N_C_E_M_E_N_T_S

August 2 2012, 3:27 PM 

"Anonymous (DF) must be really upset and hallucinating, because now he's raving about the State Senate and calling people "William Crump" when there's nobody posting here under that name."


Anonymous, nor Madison Rules, nor St. Louis Cardinals, nor Atlanta Braves, etc., doesn't post under any name yet you call him "(DF)" and "Dave Fields."

ANOTHER double standard?


 
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B
(no login)
74.179.13.14

Re: A_N_N_O_U_N_C_E_M_E_N_T_S

August 2 2012, 9:38 PM 

The following user names/aliases have all originated from the same IP address (130.127.42.38): "Cinabon," "Madison Rules," "St. Louis Cardinals," "A Capella" [sic], "Choices," and one "Anonymous."

I said it once before, and I'll say it again. Donnie isn't asking a certain poster to use his real name if he doesn't want to. Donnie just wants that one poster to pick ONE name/alias and use it CONSISTENTLY instead of posting under a bunch of different aliases. Since that person has yet to comply with Donnie's request, however, then Donnie simply changes those multiple aliases to the one real name that has been identified with that poster, according to his IP address.

 
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Tom Brite
(no login)
69.91.123.125

Re: A_N_N_O_U_N_C_E_M_E_N_T_S

August 3 2012, 7:33 AM 

For example, "B" and "William Crump."

 
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B
(no login)
74.240.240.195

Re: A_N_N_O_U_N_C_E_M_E_N_T_S

August 4 2012, 2:42 PM 

It's been awhile since Tom gave us an update about his ongoing research. He's been trying to determine if the Alamo has a basement, but I don't think he's come to any definite conclusion about that, yet. Hang in there, Tom! Some day...some day! happy.gif

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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