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CAUTION: THIS WEB SITE IS NOT PART OF OR APPROVED BY THE MADISON CHURCH OF CHRIST

October 17 2002 at 12:54 AM
ConcernedMembers  (no login)
from IP address 199.91.33.254

==================================================
.......Madison Church Of Christ ConcernedMembers Forum.......

This forum has been established to give members of the Madison Church Of Christ a means to openly discuss matters concerning their views on the format of worship services. This web site is not part of or approved by the Madison Church of Christ.
==================================================

By definition, a forum is “a medium of open discussion or expression of ideas” or “a program involving discussion of a problem.” In the worldwide web technology, forums of various types and formats have been established. For example, there may be “freedom” forums dedicated to free press or free speech. There may be “religious” forums that deal with controversial doctrinal, spiritual, moral and ethical issues.

In the last decade or two, we have been hearing references to the purpose-driven church or to the church growth movement alongside hostile takeovers, subversions and division being experienced by thousands of churches. In regard to worship and other church activities, we hear about the “holy entertainment,” contemporary worship style, “unity” in diversity, secret oaths and covenants; the roles of the music leader, worship leader, praise leader, praise teams, special servants, deaconesses, leaderettes, etc. We hear about the Community Church Movement and the Charismatic Movement. We hear about the Saddleback Community Church and the Willow Creek Community Church as “church growth” models because of their memberships being in the thousands.

The church of Christ in Madison, Tennessee, has gone through some gradual metamorphic process in more than a decade in order to combat the decline in membership. But in the process, there have been major issues and differences unsettled and unresolved. The church’s mission has been growth with the community service appeal. But it has incorporated beliefs and practices, which are strikingly different from those of the earlier generations, youth-oriented, with popular acceptance, with secular inclinations, and lacking in scriptural justification. Hundreds of its members have left to seek fellowship somewhere else. What has really been happening at Madison that should serve as a warning to other congregations in the brotherhood?

The ConcernedMembers Forum has much to offer to both sides of the aisle. It makes a serious attempt to present the truth as revealed in the Holy Scripture. It strives to preserve scriptural beliefs and practices and principles that the churches of Christ have maintained for so long. It has great respect for the Restoration Movement and its leaders. In spite of all that, this forum is open for anyone to present both facts and debatable issues. Therefore, it is the responsibility of the reader to discern for himself or herself what is factual and what is not factual.

The ConcernedMembers Forum is simply an open forum. The reader must be warned that the messages on this site come from its own contributors, as well as from those that respond to discuss, rebut and refute doctrinal issues and practices. ConcernedMembers is NOT THE WEBSITE OF THE MADISON CHURCH OF CHRIST, nor does it represent this church’s views. Therefore, as a forum, it is open to challenge. The reader is encouraged to rectify any unintended misrepresentations of facts, figures, scriptural references and other information that is common or public knowledge, by RESPONDING to the message as provided.
==================================================

 
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AuthorReply
Jack
(no login)
204.30.61.164

Confused

October 17 2002, 6:23 PM 

Dear Sir/Sirs/etc.

Why do many of the posts have:

“This message has been edited by madisonchurchofchrist from IP address 65.80.190.188 on Oct 9, 2002 9:47 AM”

like the post from Adele Patterson?

Does this mean that someone from Madison church of Christ edited this message? If not, is this not misleading?

Would it be better if your disclaimer was 1st and larger on each page concerning Madison?

Would it be better if the editor used a different signature?

Jack

===============================
Message from the moderator

JACK;

Thank you for your comment. They are points well taken.

When a moderator signs into a forum it's usually with the forum name. This forum is called "Madison Church of Christ ConcernedMembers Forum" That name is then left by the program whenever a moderator edits a post.

The name your refering to "madisonchurchofchrist" is a truncated version of the whole forum name.

The "madison" forum name is not being used any longer by moderators.

It was never used as an attempt to deceive, or for gain.

Whenever a moderator "edits" a post it is not to change anything the post has said. It's usually to hyperlink a URL address the poster has left, or leave a message like this one.

Thank You







    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 65.80.190.188 on Oct 17, 2002 8:12 PM


 
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Kevin Hamm
(Login KevinHamm)
ConcernedMembersHillcrest
63.156.240.114

RE: Confused

October 18 2002, 12:56 AM 

When I approve messages on the Hillcrest thread, I sometimes edit them for obvious spelling errors or typos, but I never change the meaning of the post or make deletions. I believe everyone can draw their own conclusions from any post whether "way out there" or "on target".

I've seen several comments about the "edited by madisonchurchofchrist IP address", etc., lately. I'm wondering why someone would bring this up especially when they are the ones that made the original post. Can they not tell what was changed in their own post? Or is this another way to divert? I've been posting here since January and I don't really notice the "edited by" at the bottom. Why has this become a concern now? I wonder.

Prayerfully Onward,

Kevin

 
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Jack
(no login)
204.30.53.165

Not Confused any More

October 18 2002, 10:23 AM 

Kevin,

I have been reading posts on this site for some time now. Until the message showed up this week that warned about the site having nothing to do with Madison, I believed that posts which said “edited by madisonchurchofchrist from IP address 65.80.190.188” were in fact edited by someone affiliated with Madison church of Christ. The moderator/owner of the forum has clearly stated that this is not true. He/she/they have made it clear in response to me that they will no longer use that form of identification when editing posts. Apparently they have determined that there may be misleading, even libelous action on their part. I am grateful for their decision to make the change.

The concern may be from those who are readers not posters. They would never know that the situation was misleading unless revealed.

Why did you even make the comment considering their explanation to me?

Jack

 
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Kevin Hamm
(Login KevinHamm)
ConcernedMembersHillcrest
63.156.240.2

RE: Not Confused any More

October 18 2002, 2:02 PM 

I simply commented because a question was asked.

 
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_A-Won
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: RE: Not Confused any More

September 5 2013, 2:52 PM 

I'm thinking it is a good ideal to post this message title and header to eliminate any confusion that may come this way. happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: RE: Not Confused any More

September 6 2013, 2:28 AM 

A-Won,

How quickly did you find this thread? ... some 11 years later?

What's confusing between the church's name and the name of the forum provided for that church's "concerned members"?

I'm somewhat confused in that you seemed to agree that you're "not confused any more." happy.gif

Maybe, we need your idea illustrated?

 
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_A-Won
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: RE: Not Confused any More

September 6 2013, 10:30 AM 

[linked image] I hope we ALL make a RIGHT turn.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Where's Purgatory? Is It a Downturn or Turned Down?

September 7 2013, 12:35 AM 

Thanks for the illustration.

The Roman [not American?] Catholics may be looking for another turn to get somewhere -- where's purgatory?

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/purgatory

Purgatory

The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a "purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven," which is experienced by those "who die in Gods grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified" (CCC 1030). It notes that "this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned" (CCC 1031).

The purification is necessary because, as Scripture teaches, nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in heaven (Rev. 21:27) and, while we may die with our mortal sins forgiven, there can still be many impurities in us, specifically venial sins and the temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven.


Two Judgments

When we die, we undergo what is called the particular, or individual, judgment. Scripture says that "as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this the judgment" (Heb. 9:27, Douay-Rheims 1899). We are judged instantly and receive our reward, for good or ill. We know at once what our final destiny example, in Matthew 25:31-32 [DRB]: "And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats:" In this general judgment all our sins will be publicly revealed (Luke 12:25).

Augustine said, in The City of God, that "temporary punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by others after death, by others both now and then; but all of them before that last and strictest judgment" (21:13). It is between the particular and general judgments, then, that the soul is purified of the remaining consequences of sin: "I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper" (Luke 12:59).


Doesn't this remind you of the question, "Where do you find Trinity in the Bible?" "Well, the word 'Trinity' is not in the Bible, but neither is the word 'Bible' in the Bible; it can be explained," says who...?

 
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_A-Won
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: CAUTION: THIS WEB SITE IS NOT PART OF OR APPROVED BY THE MADISON CHURCH OF CHRIST

September 6 2013, 10:54 AM 

"CAUTION: THIS WEB SITE IS NOT PART OF OR APPROVED BY THE MADISON CHURCH OF CHRIST"

**************************************

You have to ask yourself, would this web site be approved by any church of Christ?




 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: CAUTION: THIS WEB SITE IS NOT PART OF OR APPROVED BY THE MADISON CHURCH OF CHRIST

September 7 2013, 12:48 AM 

Of course, no doubt!!!

Wait ... with the exception of those liberal, progressive churches now affiliated with the Community Church Movement.

This website may be too conservative for those "... tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive" Ephesians 4:14

 
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Simple Servant
(no login)
174.131.243.67

Answered Prayers

September 11 2013, 10:55 AM 

Wow, it has been several years since i last stopped by. After spending some time here (wasted i might add) i began praying for it to dissolve into obscurity. Very few postings, except by the same few, threads i started years ago still appear on the first page of threads. WOW God is Good, all the time God is good! Just a few more days! peace
philip, a simple servant who serves the great change agent who calls us all to be agents of change.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.210.17.220

Re: Answered Prayers

September 11 2013, 12:47 PM 

Warning: this site is hacked by the National Security people. If they see "WOW" two times in one short post expect the gender police to knock on your door.

 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.179.209.153

Re: Answered Prayers

September 11 2013, 1:15 PM 

Many will read, but few will post. BTW, did Simple Servant get anything out of the threads about the Holy Spirit? That's the current focus.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Answered Prayers

September 11 2013, 9:02 PM 

Welcome back, Philip.

Very few postings here would be more than those at Faithslight/IBelieve. happy.gif

Did you include the exchurchofchrist.com in your prayer to dissolve? If not, I may know the reason.

Would you be in the same category as the liberal, progressive change agents in the political world? You know, they want to dissolve the Constitution and change to whatever....

Oh, speaking of "change," I'm really reminded of "the" President (the Messiah). Haven't we heard from conservative voices for those in power to "KEEP THE CHANGE"?

So, where's the BCV for the call to transform Christ's church and modify His truth?

Would you be able to give testimony to your successful changes? Just wondering.

 
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Coach
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Madison Good Old Days

October 11 2013, 2:47 PM 

Donnie, how did Madison COC view your beliefs 15 years ago? I am talking about no singing (speak only) worship service, The Holy Spirit denial, and the non-eternal Jesus stand? Did the Church know about these issues?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: Madison Good Old Days

October 11 2013, 3:39 PM 

Donnie never said "no singing." He just lets the Scripture lie there unchanged.

It was me that said that the COMMAND to SPEAK psalms, hymns and spiritual songs probably doesn't mean SANG Twiler Paris and Fanny Crosby. Then, I may have missed out on reading.

Donnie believes in the Holy Spirit: it is called the Holy Spirit OF Christ or the Holy Spirit OF God.

Madison believes "a" spirit guided them into massive discord used to DRIVE OUT the godly.

Did you forget the lessons on prepositions so soon?


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.107.21 on Oct 11, 2013 3:43 PM


 
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Scripture
(no login)
98.87.34.151

Creeping Creedalism

October 11 2013, 4:20 PM 

Madison only recently adopted a "What We Believe" in their new site, so as far as I know Donnie would be okay 15 years ago (at least as far as the Madison Creed is concerned). This does declare F-S-HS as inseparable yet separated, and is a almost identical statement of The City Church, Seattle, Washington--and so I would assume was copied from them. Even same scripture references are used.

The Philippian jailor wanted to be baptized, and Phillip replied that you can if you believe with all the heart that Jesus is the Son of God then you can be baptized. Acts 8:37--KJV but not in all the early texts. No such question was asked about the Holy Spirit.




 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: Creeping Creedalism

October 11 2013, 8:07 PM 

Northwest Church of Christ was my best work and happiest time (1962-1980). A few years later, Milton Jones, decided to lie, cheat, steal and use a lawyer to change the bylaws merged with a Christian Church which was willing to abandon instruments but Milton with his banjo, his wife and her professional piano playing and a couple of sons took it instrumenta.

Federal Way church was populated by a number of close friends and they have gone instrumental. The Christian Church has a college in Seattle and they did a job on these two at least.

When We went to Seattle in 1962 the preacher represented probably the majority view at the time and understood that the Spirit OF Christ is not another PEOPLE and the SON is not the FATHER.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: Creeping Creedalism

October 11 2013, 9:10 PM 

They are saying that the second service (contemporary) will be instrumental!

 
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This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

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