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Coach
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Is There More?

October 16 2013, 10:24 AM 

1) Denial of "The Holy Spirit"

2) Speak Only (No Singing)

3) Non-eternal Jesus

4)What will you guys come up with next? [linked image]

 
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Anonymous
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Is There More? Yes

October 17 2013, 2:13 AM 

(1) There is no denial of "The Holy Spirit":

--- 1.a. I do not believe in the not-so-holy spirit OF Donnie, but I believe in the holy spirit OF God. Donnie's spirit is not apart from Donnie and is not another being. God's spirit which is HOLY is not apart from God and is not another "divine" being. Christians are directed to "grieve not the holy spirit of God" (Eph. 4:30). There is a colossal difference between: (a) "THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD" and (b) "THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD."

--- 1.b. Coach may have forgotten that the not-so-holy spirit of Coach is not a separate being from Coach. Coach, instead, adheres to the man-made Trinity Creed that the holy spirit of God is the third person, a separate being from God. This is Coach's analogy: the spirit of man is not another man; but the spirit of God is a separate divine 3rd Person from the 1st Person Father.

(2.a) Ephesians 5:19 states: "SPEAKING to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, SINGING and making melody in your heart to the Lord."

(2.b) Coach, with company, thinks that "speaking" may be a misspelled or a transposed word for "singing." His version of Ephesians 5:19 is as follows: "SINGING TO YOURSELVES in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, SPEAKING . . . in your heart to the Lord."

(3.a) Donnie believes that "the Word" was in the beginning with God and was God; that "the Word (LOGOS) became flesh when God sent His only begotten Son 2 millenniums ago; that God made Jesus both Lord and Christ.

(3.b) Coach believes that "Jesus" was in the beginning with God and was God; that Jesus became Jesus in verse 14.

(4) Let's wait and see to find out.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.246.64

Re: Is There More? Yes

October 17 2013, 12:00 PM 

We have read Donnie's expression "Jesus became Jesus" before. We have also read Jesus' own words in John 6:38 (KJV): "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me" That is, God the Father sent Jesus from heaven down to earth.

Now since Jesus tells us that He was first in heaven and came down to earth to do the will of His Father, then Jesus in heaven came down to be made the Jesus of flesh on earth. That is, "Jesus became Jesus"...literally.

Donnie, why do you find that so far-fetched? Don't you believe that God was omnipotent enough to have Jesus with Him in heaven from time immemorial until the day that He sent Jesus down from heaven to be made flesh on earth? Even if John 1:1,2 doesn't mention "Jesus" as such, and even if the Old Testament doesn't mention "Jesus" as such, Jesus makes it quite clear in John 6:38 and other verses cited from John that Jesus had first been with God in heaven before God sent Him to earth.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Is There More? Yes

October 17 2013, 8:35 PM 

Bill,

You're contradicting yourself. But, maybe, you're not.

(1) You said: "Jesus had first been with God in heaven before God sent Him to earth."

(2) You said: That God "sent JesusJesus down from heaven to be made flesh on earth."

(3) You say, therefore, "Jesus BECAME Jesus."

Speaking of God's OMNIPOTENCE:

(1) You said: God was omnipotent enough to have Jesus with Him in heaven...."

(2) Why are you afraid to say: "God was not omnipotent enough to make Jesus "Son of God" while Jesus was right there with Him in heaven?



 
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Bill
(no login)
74.240.239.241

There's Probably More

October 17 2013, 8:30 AM 

Besides Coach and myself, I have a feelin' that a lot of readers are wondering the same thing. What fantasies will Donnie and Ken cook up next? happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: There's Probably More

October 17 2013, 8:43 PM 

I'm sure you crave, hunger and thirst for your preferred pagan-oriented PAPAL fantasies.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.14.3

Re: There's Probably More

October 17 2013, 8:49 PM 

Well, Donnie, since you've run to your Catholic Douay-Rheims Bible on some occasions to seek support for your arguments, I was wondering when you'll get around to requesting an audience with Pope Francis to kiss his...ring. happy.gif


__________________________

That will be your other task: Kiss the pope's ring; plus borrow his cap and gown. After all, his predecessors taught you the papal creed.

The Catholic Bible is a reference -- I have a number of Catholic versions of the Bible. I have a copy of the Book of Mormon. I also would like to have a copy of the Quoran.

Now, back to the Pope's Creed. I know you want to keep it sacred.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.250.192 on Oct 17, 2013 9:17 PM


 
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Bill
(no login)
74.240.208.66

Re: There's Probably More

October 17 2013, 9:48 PM 

Donnie, since you use the Douay-Rheims Bible, a Catholic Bible, you're a born Catholic at heart. Which catechism school do you attend? How much did your rosary cost? I have no need for one, of course, but you certainly do, craving that Catholic Bible and all. happy.gif


-------------------

You are much CLOSER to the papacy and its evolving church for adhering to the RCC's sacred CREED than I am for quoting an accurately translated text [only one verse] -- a rarity in Catholicism.

Thanks for reminding me -- you do need the Rosary [there: I capitalized it for you].

Be sure to obtain the latest REVISION of the Catechism. Remember that the Roman Catholic Church is still evolving. Pope Francis [I think you've heard of him] may be the RCC's chief change agent.

Lest I forget, I would recommend to you the following books: "Presenting the Catholic Faith--A Modern Catechism for Inquirers"; "Why Do Catholic...? -- A Guide to Catholic Belief and Practice" [written by a nun]; especially "A Handbook of Catholic Sacramentals."


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.250.192 on Oct 17, 2013 11:42 PM


 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Throw the Man a Life Ring

October 17 2013, 9:23 AM 

Coach,
What you see is what you get!

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

WYSIWYG

October 17 2013, 8:55 PM 

"What you see is what you get." The WYSIWYG principle.

Thanks for the compliment!!!

"We speak where the Bible speaks; we are silent where the Bible is silent."

The principle of KISS is also applicable here: "Keep it simple, stupid."

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Can You Speak a Foreign Language Fluently

October 18 2013, 11:58 AM 

Donnie, you mentioned that "The principle of KISS is also applicable here: "Keep it simple, stupid." "

Donnie, if anyone has ever violated that principle, it is you and Ken!

It is why I believe that you and Ken want to be the popes or some type of hierarchy of the church of Christ. You believe that you have it figured out to the point where you would like to interpret for all of the brotherhood. And Ken??? Donnie, I do know that Christ always made his message simple and easy to understand. It is like Ken takes the English version and rewrites in some foreign language that no one can understand.....not even you. How many times have you had to eat crow when Ken says that even a cappela singing is wrong?

Next, our response will be the church in the wilderness and church being eklesia and speak that which is written.

Ken, am I close?


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: Can You Speak a Foreign Language Fluently

October 18 2013, 12:20 PM 

Your translator is busted: I didn't say it was WRONG: I said there is no command, example or remote inference of congregational singing with or without instruments.

I said that when Paul commanded

SPEAK that which is written for our learning he and the slow ones in the slow group would have to be on drugs to READ it:

SING that which limp-wristed, never very talented praise singers WRIT for our mocking and giggling and blushing.

I fully understand why you are forced to believe that:

ODE and PSALLO IN the heart (keep it silent silly KISS) means

SING and PLAY the flute WITH the heart.

I said in very simple words EXACTLY what the Greek boys and girls could understand.

LEXIS (Speak) is opposite of ODE and
ODE (wail) is the opposite of LEXIS or LOGOS

That means that the Laura Engles of Ephesus could grasp that you CANNOT SPEAK and SING at the same time. And YOU don't know of an elder who makes certain that the MATERIAL is "that which has been taught." If you SANG out of the blue book you have NO INTENTION of letting Jesus be the only Master Teacher. And are something-driven to make the lambs dumb before the slaughter and silence the voice of the victim.

If you speak with a manly voice people could do a gender-judge. If you turn SPEAK and SAY into Whine and Wail or do hand-wavey, pointy-fingered, joking SELF REFERENCED preaching you know that he is a WANNABE one of those Paul hoped would let the knife slip and go all the way. The Pope's Castrates replaced the Pope's and Jewish FALSETTOS in the Sistine

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: CAUTION: THIS WEB SITE IS NOT PART OF OR APPROVED BY THE MADISON CHURCH OF CHRIST

October 17 2013, 10:26 AM 

Some of us are readers without trying to find a phrase for which we can invent a Dogma (music is dogma). You will find that just about every quality of life is PERSONIFIED. For instance, God DOES whatever humans do with their body parts even though we know that God is infinitely above whatever we can imagine. "Coach sounds fishy" is not a God concept as far as I know. However, if you make all of God's "parts" and "powers" into PEOPLE you are not ready for reading much less teaching the Word.

God's ARM BECAME Yasha does not mean that Yasha was hanging off God AS His ARM. You know, Jesus said that truth is HIDDEN in parables to FOOL the FOOLISH who presume any role other than "Teaching that which HAS BEEN taught" or if you want to hallucinate modern musicating "using ONE mind and ONE mouth to speak that which is written for our learning." Paul defines that as Scripture which is our COMFORTER (Paraclete). Reeders of righting defined that as UNISON or a group thing. So those PURPOSE DRIVEN TO DELUSION deliberately violate the command and add a Musicating Worship Team where Musicating or selling your own body parts and words is defined in the Greek world and by Paul as PROSTITUTION or ADULTERY. Remember the CENI we can use as a REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE.

Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Genesis 6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
Genesis 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
Genesis 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Genesis 6:14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.


The Ark was not a BOAT but a COFFIN: it was pitched inside and outside by blood-red bitumen. God shuts the tiny remnant up in the Church protected by the blood of Christ just before He PRUNES once again. Jesus said the kingdom does not come with OBSERVATIONS meaning religious rituals intentionally silences the church as School of the Word. Like the Jews, elders and preachers have made a covenant with death and hell and claim that NOTHING can harm them if they get into the boat without a covering with all of the beasts people. Their boat, like the Mormon ship, has doors in the bottom.

Remember the promise: like the days of NOAH where "giving in marriage" with all of the brides is the HALAL word.

[linked image]

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.42.38

You Are the Words and the Music

October 18 2013, 4:11 PM 

Ken, you said that a cappela singing isn't WRONG, however.....Paul commanded that we speak that which is written.

Ken, your calling was not in engineering, but in law. These slick democratic politicians sure could use your slick verbiage and diatribe.

You are saying that it is not wrong but you are going to hell if you sing in any form.

Ken, I have always said...you have to give the devil his due.

Didn't hear about eklesia or the church in the wilderness.
1 out of 3 ain't too bad.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

A Cappella with Instrumental Music Simulation

October 19 2013, 12:05 AM 

Dave,

That is not a misspelled word. It's not musical stimulation. Well, maybe.

A cappella is Italian for "in the manner of the church" or "in the manner of the chapel." While it is generally defined as singing without accompaniment from musical instruments, we should be aware of its history from its simplest form.

When the Praise Team (the "Progressive" Church of Christ CHOIR) leads the congregation to God's "holy presence," (a "professional" act that discourages congregational singing), it makes you wonder if God prefers the team to go away. It reminds me of John 2:15 -- "And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple...."

Rhythmic clapping [they call it joy or "joyful noise"; I call it programmed/rehearsed joy] disqualifies singing from being a cappella. It's noise, a substitute for instrumental noise. You see, many of the contemporary "Christian Rock" praise songs have been written and sung or performed by artists with instrumental accompaniment in the background. Congregations with Praise Teams have learned just what to do when the vocal part rests. The Praise Team claps, sways to the music, snaps the fingers, simulate instrumental noises, etc.

That kind of a cappella -- is it still a cappella?

 
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William
(no login)
108.28.133.205

a cappella

October 22 2013, 3:00 AM 


A cappella means as the chapel. The chapel was the small room, so it did not have all the accoutrements of the big church. That is, no organ. The proper spelling is two words, and two p's and two l's.

 
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Coach
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Expect the Unexpected

October 18 2013, 10:37 AM 

What might we expect next from Ken and Donnie? I suspect another Catholic linked discussion. I read an article a while back that I felt was quite unusual. Apparently some in the COC feel that that Communion (Lord's Supper) was a little too Catholic for their taste. Could this be the next bombshell discussion? Just a thought.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Expect the Unexpected

October 19 2013, 12:25 AM 

Did someone here post that "article"? Did it have anything to do with the Catholic notion of "transubstantiation"? Or, something in which the congregants were asked to bring flowers[?] to the assembly, and then offer them to the crosses at different locations in the auditorium and balcony?

The Praise Team on stage at Madison is really a distraction during the Lord's Supper, especially when the lady in pants is performing a solo while the Communion is being partaken.

By the way, would you participate in "another Catholic linked discussion"?

 
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Coach
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: Expect the Unexpected

October 19 2013, 12:09 PM 

Donnie, I would be glad to "audit the class" as always. I find the recent topics interesting and sometimes shocking.

I can't find the article that I spoke of earlier. Let's just forget about that one.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: Expect the Unexpected

October 19 2013, 12:55 PM 

The new Madison Creed lies about the Lord's Supper and the SINGING women violates or blasphemes the direct command of Jesus given by Paul as a PATTERN but only after he silences the Uncovered Prophesying Women. Since they were not writing prophets, the word is defined as "singing and playing instruments" to distract people from prostitutes and pickpockets.

Communion
We believe in the regular observance of Communion, commonly called the Lords Supper, as an EXPRESSION of worship (1 Corinthians 11:28-32).


Spiritual worship is in the PLACE of the Spirit: the ACT of the Passover-Unleavened Bread demanded SILENT searching for leaven. Now, at Madison, the Leaven of the Pharisees.

Jesus now eats and drinks with us in HIS KINGDOM and the PATTERN was that they SPOKE A HYMN AND WENT OUT.

Matthew 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child,the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

The visible-audible women and wannabes KNOW that they are making it IMPOSSIBLE to follow the command to EXAMINE YOURSELF. They KNOW that everyone is examining visible-audible BODY PARTS some being SOLD

The Lord's Supper was instituted in the Feast of Unleavened Bread which immediately followed the Passover. During these observations they took a candle and searched every possible place where leaven might be found.

Luke 12:1 In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

The LEAVEN which we are commanded to EXCLUDE is that of the hypocrites.

Matthew 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
Matthew 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

per-cto b. To strike, play a musical instrument (poet.): lyram, Ov. Am. 3, 12, 40; Val. Fl. 5, 100.
1. To smite, strike, visit with calamity of any kind (class.): percussus calamitate, Cic. Mur. 24, 49: percussus fortunae vulnere, id. Ac. 1, 3, 11: ruina, Vulg. Zach. 14, 18: anathemate. id. Mal. 4, 6: plaga, id. 1 Macc. 1, 32: in stuporem, id. Zach. 12, 4.
2. o strike, shock, make an impression upon, affect deeply, move, astound

Matthew 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour
that he is not aware of,
Matthew 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

hypocrta or -es , ae, m., = hupokrits.
I. A mime who accompanied the delivery of an actor by gestures, Suet. Ner. 24; Quint. 2, 17, 12; 11, 3, 7.
II. In eccl. Lat., a hypocrite, Vulg. Job, 8, 13; id. Matt. 6, 2; id. Luc. 12, 56 al.

hupo-kri^ts , ou, ho,
A. one who answers:
I. interpreter or expounder, ts di' ainigmn phms Pl.Ti. 72b; oneirn Luc.Somn.17, etc.
II. in Att., one who plays a part on the stage, actor, Ar.V.1279, Pl.R.373b, Chrm. 162d, Smp.194b, X. Mem.2.2.9, etc.
2. of an orator, poikilos hu. kai perittos (of Dem.) Phld.Rh.1.197 S.; one who delivers, recites, declaimer, epn Tim.Lex. s.v. rhapsdoi; rhapsodist, D.S.14.109, 15.7; this sense or sense 11.1 is possible in PCair.Zen.4.44 (iii B. C.).
3. metaph., pretender, dissembler, hypocrite, LXX Jb.34.30, 36.13, Ev.Matt.23.13, al.


Yes, Nashville, Apollo has landed and as Abaddon or Apollyon he is the LEADER OF THE MUSES, known as adulteresses and Sorcerers (Revelation 18) or daughters of the Babylon Mother of harlots (lusted after fruits).



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.107.21 on Oct 19, 2013 1:04 PM


 
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This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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